Steering stiff after ball joint replacement

[dmruschell]

3196 has aluminum LCAs that had Hervey ball joints in it. It was incredibly easy to steer the car, much more so than my D (5786) was. After having the Hervey ball joints in 3196 replaced with the UK ball joints, the steering is incredibly stiff. It's not only hard to turn the wheel, but the car won't correct itself after making a turn. Instead of the wheel wanting to go straight again, the wheel doesn't want to move at all and the car continues to turn without any pressure on the wheel. Even with the front of the car jacked up and both front tires off of the ground, the steering is a bit stiff. Both lower and upper ball joints have been lubed. Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this stiffness?

5786 has the UK ball joints, and after I greased the upper ball joints, is incredibly easy to steer like 3196 was, so I know it's not necessarily an inherent problem with the ball joints. Because 3196 is my fiance's car, the stiffer steering is a bigger issue than it would be on my car. Any help is appreciated.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I would not think ball joints would affect the steering friction. Did you install the ball joints? I would guess something else got changed when the ball joints were installed.

[dmruschell]

I would not think ball joints would affect the steering friction. Did you install the ball joints? I would guess something else got changed when the ball joints were installed.

I had a local shop install them. They had replaced the UK ball joints in my friend's DeLorean not long before that without any issues, so I don't know what could have happened during the installation on our car.

[DMCMW Dave]

That is a sign of too much friction in the steering. I've actually seen an improperly made steering column bushing (the hole was way too small) cause this too. It makes the car remarkably difficult/tiring to drive as you have to manually correct the steering constantly.

In your case if all that was changed were the ball joints, I'd guess that they were somehow damaged during the installation process. They are pressed in, and if the pressure was put somewhere it shouldn't be, or the fit was too tight, they could be damaged.

Should not be too hard to prove, separate the tie rod end from the knuckle and move the knuckle back and forth. If it has a lot of resistance, separate the lower ball joint from the knuckle and try again. You are trying to localize the excessive friction. This also gives you a chance to check the friction in the rack in the event something they did damaged the rack.

The didn't replace ANYTHING but the ball joints at this time?

[dmruschell]

That is a sign of too much friction in the steering. I've actually seen an improperly made steering column bushing (the hole was way too small) cause this too. It makes the car remarkably difficult/tiring to drive as you have to manually correct the steering constantly.

In your case if all that was changed were the ball joints, I'd guess that they were somehow damaged during the installation process. They are pressed in, and if the pressure was put somewhere it shouldn't be, or the fit was too tight, they could be damaged.

Should not be too hard to prove, separate the tie rod end from the knuckle and move the knuckle back and forth. If it has a lot of resistance, separate the lower ball joint from the knuckle and try again. You are trying to localize the excessive friction. This also gives you a chance to check the friction in the rack in the event something they did damaged the rack.

The didn't replace ANYTHING but the ball joints at this time?

The ball joints were the only thing replaced. The old ball joints hadn't even failed; I just wanted a higher quality, less failure prone part there. I'll probably stop by the shop tomorrow and talk to them about it.

[dmruschell]

I just talked to the shop and have an appointment to stop by there tomorrow so they can get the car on a lift and see what is causing the friction. Hopefully then new parts will be ordered, installed and the problem fixed. I'll post what the problem turns out to be.

[dmruschell]

So, here's the situation. I purchased the ball joints from DPI, and Josh had me send him pictures of the underside of the ball joints. He said that it looks like pressure was applied to the plate where the grease fitting is. However, when I started to mention that to the tech who installed them, he finished my sentence that the pressure should only be applied to the lip around the plate and assured me that that's what he did. They disconnected the knuckle from the tie rod ends and steered each wheel by hand. There was some resistance, but they said that it was about equal on each side, and that neither side felt like there were spots where it was binding. He did say that they've seen ball joints that were stiff when installed and then loosened up after some driving and that they would reinstall another set of ball joints if I want them to free of charge. Josh sent out another set of joints after looking at the pictures and said we can figure out payment once we figure out what happened with the joints.

I've attached the photos here to get a second opinion on whether or not the joints look damaged or not. I trust both Josh and the shop (I've been dealing with them for a while and they've always done good work, including installing ball joints on a friend's DeLorean without any issue) and am stuck in the middle, so other opinions are appreciated, as I don't know exactly what to look for.

Right now, I'm thinking of making a point to drive the car fairly often for the next few weeks and seeing if they free up. If they don't, then I'll have them install the new joints.

30332303333033430335

[Delorean Industries]

The first picture is the one I'm concerned about. But with shadows and what not it is hard to dell without seeing it.

[dmruschell]

The first picture is the one I'm concerned about. But with shadows and what not it is hard to dell without seeing it.

I'll compare them to the second set when they arrive to see if there are any noticeable differences.

The consensus seems to be that the friction is coming from the ball joints, but I think the question is if they were damaged, or if they just need some break-in time.


I'm happy to say, though, that the customer service has been great on both ends :) Usually if a shop gets a part directly from one of their usual suppliers, the issue is dealt with well. However, if a customer brings in his own part from a store and has the shop install it, there is always the potential for both sides to point fingers without the problem being resolved. Here, each side is willing to help, which makes owning these cars that sometimes need special parts easier.

[DashEight]

I just rebuilt my front end and have the same findings. The steering is very heavy from the ball joints resistance. I bought the upper and lower balljoints from DMC Northwest and installed them myself so I know they were pressed in correctly. I am guessing that once they are used a bit they will loosen up. The Steering rack was not touched outside of the rod ends. I did buy new 7/16ths castle nuts that I had to grind the channel for the cotter pin a little deeper. That wouldnt affect the steering, just that the castle nuts available are not as low profile as the factory ones. The lock nuts on the ball joints in the picture were not used.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j200/AE86Silver/DMC12/20140607_182316_zps76f1d291.jpg (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/AE86Silver/media/DMC12/20140607_182316_zps76f1d291.jpg.html)

[dmruschell]

I just rebuilt my front end and have the same findings. The steering is very heavy from the ball joints resistance. I bought the upper and lower balljoints from DMC Northwest and installed them myself so I know they were pressed in correctly. I am guessing that once they are used a bit they will loosen up. The Steering rack was not touched outside of the rod ends. I did buy new 7/16ths castle nuts that I had to grind the channel for the cotter pin a little deeper. That wouldnt affect the steering, just that the castle nuts available are not as low profile as the factory ones. The lock nuts on the ball joints in the picture were not used.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j200/AE86Silver/DMC12/20140607_182316_zps76f1d291.jpg (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/AE86Silver/media/DMC12/20140607_182316_zps76f1d291.jpg.html)

Thank you for sharing your experience. It makes me feel better knowing in not the only one. Keep us updated if they start to loosen up once they've been on the road for a little while :)

[DMCMW Dave]

Thank you for sharing your experience. It makes me feel better knowing in not the only one. Keep us updated if they start to loosen up once they've been on the road for a little while :)

A little late to the discussion but we of course all use the same ball joints. The last set we installed seemed incredibly stiff as well. We noticed it prior to installation but since we don't exactly keep dozens of them in stock we went ahead with them. So far no complaints. I'd definitely grease them fairly often at first. I'll be surprised if they don't loosen up in a few miles, but this does seem like an unusual trait.

BTW I agree on the nuts - for some reason these are supplied drilled for castle nuts but have nylocks on them. We toss the nylocks and use factory SP10877 castle nuts. Kind of a mixed message from the maker, and since there was a recall for the same change we figured the castle nuts with cotter pins are the way to go.

[Bitsyncmaster]

BTW I agree on the nuts - for some reason these are supplied drilled for castle nuts but have nylocks on them. We toss the nylocks and use factory SP10877 castle nuts. Kind of a mixed message from the maker, and since there was a recall for the same change we figured the castle nuts with cotter pins are the way to go.

Mine came with both castle nuts and the nylocks. I used the new castle nuts but did have to use my dremal a little to get the cotter pins installed. Did not use the nylocks.

[ALEXAKOS]

Mine were stiff at first cause the grease pump was not putting enough grease in the ball joints.
I later retried it filling up the ball joints until the rubber boot spewed some excess grease.
The stiffness was gone.

[dmruschell]

Mine were stiff at first cause the grease pump was not putting enough grease in the ball joints.
I later retried it filling up the ball joints until the rubber boot spewed some excess grease.
The stiffness was gone.

Now I know what's on my car to-do list this week lol.

[ALEXAKOS]

Now I know what's on my car to-do list this week lol.

Well I live in grease (Greece), I should know about that stuff!

*God knows I have been waiting for an opportunity to use that line...:p

[Chris 16409]

Make sure to grease the ball joints. My friend and I installed the UK ball joints into his lower control arms and noticed they needed more grease.

[ALEXAKOS]

Make sure to grease the ball joints. My friend and I installed the UK ball joints into his lower control arms and noticed they needed more grease.

My point exactly. Mine were uk ones and I think DPI also sells those;)

[kings1527]

That is a sign of too much friction in the steering. I've actually seen an improperly made steering column bushing (the hole was way too small) cause this too. It makes the car remarkably difficult/tiring to drive as you have to manually correct the steering constantly.

In your case if all that was changed were the ball joints, I'd guess that they were somehow damaged during the installation process. They are pressed in, and if the pressure was put somewhere it shouldn't be, or the fit was too tight, they could be damaged.

Should not be too hard to prove, separate the tie rod end from the knuckle and move the knuckle back and forth. If it has a lot of resistance, separate the lower ball joint from the knuckle and try again. You are trying to localize the excessive friction. This also gives you a chance to check the friction in the rack in the event something they did damaged the rack.

The didn't replace ANYTHING but the ball joints at this time?

Hi Dave,

I came across a youtube video of a guy installing ball joints and he eventually uses an air hammer with a blunt tip around the edges of the ball joint itself. It's right here and he starts installing the ball joint at about the 4:50 mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd5IcN3yjsg

It looked awfully convenient and effective, particularly if you already have an air hammer. Any harm in doing something like that?

[dmruschell]

My point exactly. Mine were uk ones and I think DPI also sells those;)

Mine have been greased once by the shop that installed them, again by me (I grease until the resistance of the grease gun increases suddenly), and then again by the shop when they inspected the car. So, they've been greased 3 times. I don't think grease was oozing out of the joints yet, though, so maybe not enough.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Not sure if you want to force a lot of grease out of the rubber "boot" since they have spring clamps on each end. I just add enough grease to see that rubber boot expand a little.

[dmruschell]

The passenger side ball joint was already greased to the point where grease was leaking out. The drivers side didn't take much for some to ooze out, so I'm guessing mine were already well lubed.I've got just over 1,000 miles until the next oil change, so I figure I'll re-evaluate it when I do the oil change.

[DMCMW Dave]

Hi Dave,
--
It looked awfully convenient and effective, particularly if you already have an air hammer. Any harm in doing something like that?

He's not working with a sheet-metal arm, he's got a cast-iron knuckle there. You can do a lot of damage very quickly with an air hammer.

[kings1527]

He's not working with a sheet-metal arm, he's got a cast-iron knuckle there. You can do a lot of damage very quickly with an air hammer.

Good to know, I'll stay away from that. Thanks.