Who refurbiushes wheels?

[alexwolf1216]

Is there a way to fix a bent rim? I have a rowdy wobble, and I have now had the tires balanced 5 times to no avail. Low speeds it isnt really noticeable, but get that puppy on the highway and its ugly. Here is what I recently replaced:

Tires
Lower ball joints
Shocks
Springs
Tie Rod Ends
Wheel bearings
refurb front hubs
Upper, lower ujoint and intermediate shaft
steering column bushing

I know very little about wheels, so I dont know if a shop can test for roundness or not. I have tested different tire pressures, and the shop is telling me the tires are round. Dont really know what else to check?

[David T]

Is there a way to fix a bent rim? I have a rowdy wobble, and I have now had the tires balanced 5 times to no avail. Low speeds it isnt really noticeable, but get that puppy on the highway and its ugly. Here is what I recently replaced:

Tires
Lower ball joints
Shocks
Springs
Tie Rod Ends
Wheel bearings
refurb front hubs
Upper, lower ujoint and intermediate shaft
steering column bushing

I know very little about wheels, so I dont know if a shop can test for roundness or not. I have tested different tire pressures, and the shop is telling me the tires are round. Dont really know what else to check?

Every large city has someone who does wheel reconditioning. Look around. If you can't find anyone local you can always ship the rims. Easy to tell if a rim is bent. Raise each wheel so you can rotate it, put a stick alongside barely touching the rim and while rotating the tire see if the edge moves towards or away from the stick. You cannot balance a bent rim, period. As for curb rash, aka scratches and gouges from hitting curbs, that can also be fixed. Depending on the damage, it may be less expensive to replace the bent rim rather than trying to fix it.

[NightFlyer]

It depends on how badly the wheel is bent as to whether it can be adequately repaired, but yes, the wheels can usually be trued by a professional with the right tools/equipment.

There should be a lot of options for you there in Texas. There's even a Wheel's America location in San Antonio:

http://www.wheelsamerica.com/Wheels-America-Wheel-Repair-San-Antonio.php

"Most damaged wheels can be repaired, this would include bends, curb rash, cracks, breaks, and cosmetic damage. The exception would be wheels that have been warped in the center hub area of the wheel, or wheels that have excessive broken areas. Our repair technicians analyize each wheel during the inspection process to determine if it is repairable."

[alexwolf1216]

It depends on how badly the wheel is bent as to whether it can be adequately repaired, but yes, the wheels can usually be trued by a professional with the right tools/equipment.

There should be a lot of options for you there in Texas. There's even a Wheel's America location in San Antonio:

http://www.wheelsamerica.com/Wheels-America-Wheel-Repair-San-Antonio.php

Just found that one, thanks Josh

[Dangermouse]

I'd be surprised that your tire balancer hasn't noticed it. Most shops have an external contact that does them. I just had two on my DD fixed for about $100 each and you could clearly see the bend where it had hit a pothole/curb/etc.

If you set up the SAT club, see if anyone will swap front wheels with you just as a test. You may find it is something else such as a dodgy brake rotor.

[alexwolf1216]

Yeah, djdogbone was getting that going. Soon I hope.

[NightFlyer]

Dont really know what else to check?

As Dermot stated, a warped brake rotor could also be causing your high speed wobble.

It's also possible that the wheel isn't being fully seated square and flush to the hub because of the manner in which the lug nuts are being put on. This is why i absolutely avoid using an pneumatic impact gun/wrench on the D, and instead do all the lug nuts by hand. Failure to put the lugs nuts on properly could very well cause a high speed wobble, not to mention put an extraordinary amount of stress on the studs, which could possibly lead to eventual failure over time. Sheared wheel studs have been known to happen on our cars, and I personally believe it's because the lug nuts weren't properly attached.

As your tightening down each lug nut, you want to manually jostle the wheel on the stud to assure that each one is holding the wheel in a fully seated square and flush position against the hub. And of course, make sure that you use a cross pattern tightening technique, as you would with any wheel.

Oh, and as with any wheel stud / lug nut job, be sure to apply some anti-seize lubricant to the stud threads before putting the lug nuts on.

[DMCMW Dave]

Yes - there are wheel repair/refurb places all over the place, and they will all say the same thing. They can fix rim bends unless it cracks during the process, and they can not (will not) repair hub-centric bends. The worst part of getting wheels refinished is that DeLorean wheels are not very good as wheels go, and they will 100% guaranteed have a problem getting the finish right without bubbles, and the correct color. It's harder than you think, and will be harder than the wheel guys will think if they have never done DeLorean wheels before. You'll likely end up getting all 4 wheels done just so they match, although yours could probably stand it anyway. But before you go off in that direction try the following:

I agree with the other comment - if the wheel is bent you can see it by spinning the wheel. Since you feel it in the steering its almost certainly in the front. Jack the front tires off the ground and spin them by hand. Be sure to look at the rim edge both on the inside and the outside. Look for wobble in the whole wheel. Look for wobbling in the rim. Rock the tire back and forth to make sure that the wheel bearing didn't get damaged during installation.

If this is inconclusive, your next step is to find an old school tire balance shop that can spin balance the wheels ON the car. I normally don't care for this as it is then balancing everything, i.e. brake rotors, into the equation. This then means that every time you take a tire off you need to get the same wheel on the same hub with the same lug nut orientation, and is in some way hiding another problem. But it may need to be part of your detective work.

Another thing I'd try (because I can, and if you've found any DeLorean friends in the area you can too) is borrow a complete set of wheels and tires from another car and see how it feels. If that solves the problem swap them back a tire at a time. I've seen this sort of problem turn out to be a bad belt in a tire, even a brand new tire, and there is no other way to find it.

[alexwolf1216]

I believe I was the last person to put those on, and torqued them manually. The wheel shop is on the other side of the world from me, so driving the car there just wont work. Ill take the fronts off and double check.

I had the rotors turned on the car after doing the brake system. I had the worst time getting the wheel bearings on, but I cant imagine that would affect anything. I will freely admit I forgot the spacers when installing the hubs, but it was discovered and remedied.

[David T]

As Dermot stated, a warped brake rotor could also be causing your high speed wobble.

It's also possible that the wheel isn't being fully seated square and flush to the hub because of the manner in which the lug nuts are being put on. This is why i absolutely avoid using an pneumatic impact gun/wrench on the D, and instead do all the lug nuts by hand. Failure to put the lugs nuts on properly could very well cause a high speed wobble, not to mention put an extraordinary amount of stress on the studs, which could possibly lead to eventual failure over time. Sheared wheel studs have been known to happen on our cars, and I personally believe it's because the lug nuts weren't properly attached.

As your tightening down each lug nut, you want to manually jostle the wheel on the stud to assure that each one is holding the wheel in a fully seated square and flush position against the hub. And of course, make sure that you use a cross pattern tightening technique, as you would with any wheel.

Oh, and as with any wheel stud / lug nut job, be sure to apply some anti-seize lubricant to the stud threads before putting the lug nuts on.

It is very important that the rim seats completely against the spindle so it can run true. All of the lug nuts should be hand tightened before being torqued. I also dislike using a pneumatic impact on lug nuts. They run the lug nuts so fast they rip tiny shards off the threads of the studs and they are VERY sharp! As for putting any kind of lubricant or anti-seize on the threads, the torque values are for DRY threads only. As for the rotor, very rare they are out of balance but if it gets warped it will cause the brake pedal to pulsate when you apply the brakes and/or shake the steering wheel (not vibrate the car).

[NightFlyer]

As for putting any kind of lubricant or anti-seize on the threads, the torque values are for DRY threads only.

No doubt, but I've personally experienced no ill consequences from using a little anti-seize on wheel stud threads in the last 18 years that I've been doing such. I also do a little on the flange of the nut, so that it doesn't chemically bond to the aluminum of the wheel over time. If you've ever had to change a flat on the side of the road, then you know that the worst possible thing that you can experience is a seized lug nut.


As for the rotor, very rare they are out of balance but if it gets warped it will cause the brake pedal to pulsate when you apply the brakes and/or shake the steering wheel (not vibrate the car).

Warped rotors are also very noticeable during free wheel movement running. People that stand on the brakes (of any car) often times have warped rotors, and whenever I drive such cars, it's instantly noticeable to me. In fact, with the way most people drive today, I'd go so far as to say that a small majority of the cars on the road today are running with warped rotors.

That's why I always pump the brakes no matter what kind of braking system I'm driving (abs or standard, disc or drum). I regularly achieve over 150k miles out of set of rotors/pads/tires simply by braking so as to preserve the longevity of the braking system components. Saves me a lot of money over the long run as well :)

[DMCMW Dave]

I regularly achieve over 150k miles out of set of rotors/pads/tires simply by braking so as to preserve the longevity of the braking system components. Saves me a lot of money over the long run as well :)

Living out in the country is a big help too.

[alexwolf1216]

Living out in the country is a big help too.

Rural Michigan. I miss those days. Now I am in traffic hell, 110 heat and terrible drivers :cowboy:

[NightFlyer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umS3XM3xAPk

[David T]

No doubt, but I've personally experienced no ill consequences from using a little anti-seize on wheel stud threads in the last 18 years that I've been doing such. I also do a little on the flange of the nut, so that it doesn't chemically bond to the aluminum of the wheel over time. If you've ever had to change a flat on the side of the road, then you know that the worst possible thing that you can experience is a seized lug nut.



Warped rotors are also very noticeable during free wheel movement running. People that stand on the brakes (of any car) often times have warped rotors, and whenever I drive such cars, it's instantly noticeable to me. In fact, with the way most people drive today, I'd go so far as to say that a small majority of the cars on the road today are running with warped rotors.

That's why I always pump the brakes no matter what kind of braking system I'm driving (abs or standard, disc or drum). I regularly achieve over 150k miles out of set of rotors/pads/tires simply by braking so as to preserve the longevity of the braking system components. Saves me a lot of money over the long run as well :)

With ABS you are no longer supposed to pump the brakes. It INCREASES the braking distance. Brake wear is a function of the type of driving (highway or city) the driver (if they "ride" the brakes" or speed) and the car (some cars have undersized brakes like the Japanese cars). Brakes (rotors and pads) are a wearable item like tires, the more you use the car the more often you will replace wearable parts. It takes a LOT to warp the rotors on a Delorean even though they are not ventilated. On some cars (not Deloreans) the rotors are made cheaply and do warp easily, especially many after-market ones and most noticeably the ones made in China.

[alexwolf1216]

Took It to a different shop and they're telling me that all 4 tires are out of round. Waiting on the machine so I can take some photos.

[NightFlyer]

Took It to a different shop and they're telling me that all 4 tires are out of round. Waiting on the machine so I can take some photos.

Interesting development.

Did they dismount the tires to test them, as I would presume that they'd have to in order to accurately come to such a conclusion.

And if they did, while the tires are dismounted, are they (or someone else in the area) able to test whether the wheels are true?

[alexwolf1216]

Interesting development.

Did they dismount the tires to test them, as I would presume that they'd have to in order to accurately come to such a conclusion.

And if they did, while the tires are dismounted, are they (or someone else in the area) able to test whether the wheels are true?

They did not, so we got Tread Depot on the phone and hes sending me a set of Toyos overnight to try. They used the road force machine, and a couple of them were visibily wobbling near the center, almost an up and down motion. It was strange.

[NightFlyer]

With ABS you are no longer supposed to pump the brakes.

The ABS systems on most cars only engage when sensors (which are a part of the system) detect a loss of traction, and it's quite apparent to the driver when they do. In such instances, then yes, you'd stand on the brakes, as the ABS system is essentially doing the pumping for you.

However, during normal operation of an ABS equipped vehicle's braking system, the ABS system is dormant. And pumping the brakes will assist one in keeping pad/shoe and rotor/drum wear to a minimum, as you're allowing the braking components to temporarily cool in-between each pump, and thus avoiding a super-heating condition (which causes glazing and warpage of such components and leads to a loss of system efficiency in the future).

[NightFlyer]

They did not, so we got Tread Depot on the phone and hes sending me a set of Toyos overnight to try. They used the road force machine, and a couple of them were visibily wobbling near the center, almost an up and down motion. It was strange.

Interesting. Admittedly, I'm not that experienced in all the different analysis tools/machines that are currently used in the marketplace. I didn't know that you could confirm the roundness of a mounted tire where it's uncertain if the wheels that the tires are mounted to are in fact true. Sounds fishy to me, but if they're confident in their technique, I guess I'd go with it.

The made in USA Cooper CS4 has a pretty good reputation for quality, which is why I'm somewhat skeptical about the fact that you somehow received not one, but supposedly two or more bad examples. Then again, when you purchased them, they had already been discontinued, thus only existing stocks in inventory were left and it's possible that the place that sold them to you kept on back-shelving those specific tires because they knew that there was something funky about them - it's also possible that the place you purchased your CS4's from damaged them via improper storage. Hard to say for certain. This is one of the reasons that I keep recently discontinued tires off the list, as when remaining stocks in inventory run low, what tends to remain are examples that otherwise would have been rejected because of defects. Not to mention that the molds and tooling of the machines that make the tire are significantly wore out by the time discontinuation occurs, and thus the last produced examples end up being of significantly worse quality than the rest of the production run. Thus it's always a crap-shoot when buying a recently discontinued tire - sometimes you'll luck out, and sometimes you won't.

Toyo Extensa A/S are made in either China, USA, or Japan. Before committing to the tires, I'd insist upon either the made in USA or made in Japan variants, otherwise if all they can get you are the made in China variants, I'd consider getting a different brand and model of tire, such as the Vredestein Sportrac 5 that I was successful in getting imported into the country from the Netherlands - several owners other than myself are now running the Vredestein Sportrac 5 on their cars, and I've yet to hear a single complaint about them from anyone. If the Vredesteins are a little too rich for you, my next choice would be the South Korean made Nexen CP641, followed by the Kumho Solus KR21. Any other currently available matching set option is a crap shoot re consistency of quality.

Here's a list of the currently produced matching sets for our stock/OEM wheels (note that the list does not include recently discontinued offerings, even though a sufficient stock of such tires may still be readily available in the marketplace):

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?7285-2013-Matched-Set-%28Non-Stock-Sized-Rears-or-Fronts%29-Tires&p=148051&viewfull=1#post148051

Let us know how it works out and best luck :thumbup:

[alexwolf1216]

I'm gonna take the free swap and see how it goes. I'll spring for nicer tires later if needed but I'm limited by what they have in stock

[NightFlyer]

I'm gonna take the free swap and see how it goes. I'll spring for nicer tires later if needed but I'm limited by what they have in stock

Ah, but of course :biggrin:

BTW - I significantly edited my last comment to include more info about tire production in general.

[djdogbone]

Wow, bad tires!

I am working in getting the club together. The domain DMCSA.org has been purchased. I'm out of town at the moment so I can't do more than that. I'll build the site when I return and start reaching out to other DMC owners

[alexwolf1216]

Ah, but of course :biggrin:

BTW - I significantly edited my last comment to include more info about tire production in general.

He just confirmed that these are the Japanese/American version. Makes me feel better. Maybe someday djdogbone will come out from the backyard and swap me some rims :hihi2:

[NightFlyer]

He just confirmed that these are the Japanese/American version. Makes me feel better. Maybe someday djdogbone will come out from the backyard and swap me some rims :hihi2:

Good deal :thumbup:

I believe that DMCMW is currently putting the Toyo Extensa A/S on the cars that come into them for wheel/tire work, thus you'll be getting a proven tire. Not as nice as the Vredesteins :wink:, but probably the next best option currently available in a matching set, so hopefully they'll do the trick for you.

Best luck :thumbup:

[alexwolf1216]

Good deal :thumbup:

I believe that DMCMW is currently putting the Toyo Extensa A/S on the cars that come into them for wheel/tire work, thus you'll be getting a proven tire. Not as nice as the Vredesteins :wink:, but probably the next best option currently available in a matching set, so hopefully they'll do the trick for you.

Best luck :thumbup:

What is interesting is that its a 195 front, 225 rear.

[NightFlyer]

What is interesting is that its a 195 front, 225 rear.

That should have been the tread width of your Cooper CS4's as well.

Dropping the rear down to a 225 (from the 235 stock/OEM spec) is the only way to currently obtain a matched set (unless you're willing to try the Nankang NK Comfort XR-611 in the stock/OEM sizes - but the sacrifice in quality isn't worth it IMHO). Stock/OEM front tread width is 195. Stock/OEM profile is 60 for both the front and the back.

If what you're saying is that it's interesting that all 4 tires don't have the same tread width, as you'd expect to find on a normal/regular car, yeah, I guess that is something that's somewhat peculiar about our cars. :)

[alexwolf1216]

Discount tire laughed and said they had 0 tires they could even sell me

[NightFlyer]

Discount tire laughed and said they had 0 tires they could even sell me

Yep - local availability in our sizes (even in the rear compromise size), isn't always easy to find. Sucks if you ever suffer a blow out / flat far from home....

[alexwolf1216]

Yep - local availability in our sizes (even in the rear compromise size), isn't always easy to find. Sucks if you ever suffer a blow out / flat far from home....

I should clarify. They didnt even have any they would order.....0 options. Told me to go buy them elsewhere and bring them for install.

[NightFlyer]

I should clarify. They didnt even have any they would order.....0 options. Told me to go buy them elsewhere and bring them for install.

Of the tires that their website shows in our two sizes (stock front and rear compromise), all are discontinued with the sole exception of the BFGoodrich Radial T/A E4 for the rear, which shows up as a special order only. Note that their website also shows the BFGoodrich Radial T/A E4 (again a special order only item) and the Cooper Cobra Radial GT (with a known stock of 0), both for the rear in the stock/OEM size.

So yeah, their options for our cars are pretty much non-existent.

[NightFlyer]

They used the road force machine, and a couple of them were visibily wobbling near the center, almost an up and down motion. It was strange.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQxVAssnbp8