View Full Version : General Vin 537 - found!
There were four DeLoreans sent to the DOT for various purposes. 515, 517, 531, and 537. Each of these has been thought to be lost in the sands of time. 515 and 517 were crash-tested and need extensive repairs. 531 and 537, although both believed to be DESTROYED, came up for purchase very recently -- 531 vanished without a trace (potentially parted out, although I'd hate to think this), but what was 537's fate? Well, she's mine now! :biggrin:
First things first: major, MAJOR thanks to a fellow member who I shall call "J" (unless he wants to out himself -- please do if you're comfortable man!) who found these two for sale and saw them in person. 531 sold before he could get his hands on it, but 537 did not. He sent me an email about it, and after doing some very basic research, I got in touch with the dealership. The more I look into it, the more I realize what an amazing, amazing purchase this is. I won't post pictures until I have her safely in my hands, but I do have 50 from the for sale page. She's in extremely rough shape, and it'll take at LEAST an estimated $80,000 to restore her to her former glory, money I unfortunately do not have at the moment. She doesn't run, but the motor does turn freely by hand, and other than the T-panel, ashtray, trunk components, cargo net, steering wheel center, etc., she's 99% complete!
To prove I'm not "faking" this information, here's some things you can blatantly tell from the pictures:
- The engine cover underside is white. This was NOT painted to look white, but rather the exact opposite -- it was left unpainted entirely! Thanks to Tony Swann for pointing this one out on Egull, and now I'll have a comparison point for 559's engine cover as it gets restored by DPI.
- The binnacle is leather, and stitching is clearly visible. Excellent original condition, and another reference point for DPI.
- Steering wheel is vinyl, with center section missing
- Passenger-side wiper fluid hole present, as well as small holes in the hood
- Engineering label found directly underneath Driver's B-pilliar, blends in with stainless
- Extra wires/tubes found in various locations in the engine bay and rear parcel shelf, including what appears to be some kind of device attached to the air inlet hose/tube that Egull does not have (EPA hardware?)
- Pontoons are smooth, NOT textured like most 500-series VIN's
- Door handles match the stainless of the door, NOT the black of the trim (for comparison, Egull's are still the OEM plastic on both driver and passenger sides)
- Driver's door sill VIN plate is missing entirely (Just like 559!), and the dashboard VIN plate is bare aluminum.
- Blackout A/C panel. No, that is not a typo, the ENTIRE A/C panel is completely BLACK! Only VIN 500 is known to be like this, so this alone makes it 1 of 2. And guess who's willing to share pictures of it??? (I'm looking at you, kajcienski (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?4537-quot-Black-quot-Decal-Project-VIN-500-**Split-From-Matt-s-Graphic-Overlay-Projects**) :wink: )
That's the good. Now here's the bad and the ugly:
- Many stainless panels suffered damage, and T-panel is missing entirely. Rear driver's quarterpanel is a massive tear and wrinkled section, hood has a major X in it and creasing, LFF is okay, but slightly warped
- Front fascia has cracks in the upper corners, and each of the outer headlights is horribly aligned. Looks to have been in some kind of undocumented fender-bender.
- Front bumper has residue in the shape of a license plate, although full VIN (which differs from most DeLoreans -- no details until she's in my hands :wink: ) shows up zero records in publicly available databases -- likely done in the early 80's rather than in the modern day
- Windshield has either been replaced or was originally installed without the antenna, although the radio is present and intact. Driver's wiper missing, but passenger is present (just like Egull!)
- Passenger window is off the track and tilted forward, driver's side is closed, so not sure if it suffered the same fate or not
- Seats are horrendously torn up, including missing pieces. While not terribly uncommon, odometer shows <20,000 miles, although the paperwork from the dealership indicates it may have rolled over at least once (which I strongly doubt)
- Rear license plate bezel missing
- Dashboard either has a crack or a manufacturing mark that goes from the glovebox to the windshield. Not sure until I get a chance to inspect it personally
- Driver's hood strut missing
- Frame status: unknown 100%, but surface rust does exist on many components. Deep rust yet to be determined, but it's all there, which is good news
- Trunk area basically vacant. No jack cover, no trunk mat, no spare tire, no fuel access cover, apparently scavenging of DeLorean parts started WAY earlier than first thought :8ball:
So that's how it stands now. I've already worked out financing, so she's mine.
With regards to 559 vs. 537, there's a major difference to how I'm approaching both cars:
559 (Egull): heavily scavenged, most parts not original, why not make it even more unique than it already is? Now I call her a "21st Century Time Machine" -- the result of what would've happened had Doc Brown designed and built the time machine today instead of in 1955 through 1985. All modern components are used in this, including Arduino Flux Capacitors, LED BTTF vents, etc.
537 (name TBD): heavily preserved, most parts ARE original, why not keep it that way but give it a nice refresher?
So I now have two D's, one custom and one stock. I see both sides of the coin, and the pros and cons of converting vs. not converting. Bottom line: 537 will remain as stock as possible, with one small exception: any rubber hoses that have silicone replacements available will become silicone. I am NOT losing 537 to an engine fire like so many DeLoreans before when there's no need for it!
gasflaphoodfan95
09-08-2014, 03:44 PM
I am very happy to have told Shep about 537 which was believed to have been bought in bulk with VIN 531 by a dealer in California. 531 sold a few days ago and with my help Shep is the proud owner of VIN 537 congratulations my friend.
I am very happy to have told Shep about 537 which was believed to have been bought in bulk with VIN 531 by a dealer in California. 531 sold a few days ago and with my help Shep is the proud owner of VIN 537 congratulations my friend.There he is, the man of the year/decade/era! :wave2: Just wish 531 resurfaced in safe hands. With any luck, someone got it to hold onto it, not to part it out or anything.
I won't post pictures until I have her safely in my hands, but I do have 50 from the for sale page.
Do you still have the link of the add where we will be able to see a few pictures before you post them?
Any idea where VIN531 has landed?
Do you still have the link of the add where we will be able to see a few pictures before you post them?See here:
I won't post pictures until I have her safely in my hands, but I do have 50 from the for sale page.I'd prefer NOT to post a link in case someone else tries to sabotage the deal. That being said, I saved every single picture from the ad, plus the page itself, so even when they take it down, I'll have everything. Once she's en route, I'll post the pics and a link to the ad. And once they take it down, a link to my backup copy, to be hosted online.
Any idea where VIN531 has landed?Same place, although since it has sold, I'm not sure where it'll turn up. I'll scan eBay the next few days to see if anyone tries to sell it, but I have heard it was in far better shape than 537.
Okay, no problem ;)
I'll wait till you have the car home :)
Okay, no problem ;)
I'll wait till you have the car home :)Didn't say "home", I said "en route" -- don't have to wait quite that long ;)
And on a related note, MAJOR thanks to DPI Josh for helping as much as he has -- he's providing me with a few thousand dollars (the exact amount of which I'll let him disclose if he desires) and put it on my tab, so I'll pay him back when 559 gets her next oil change and has previously-unaddressed cosmetic work done (i.e. stuff that I told Josh "no" to before during the restoration, but want done now that the drivetrain is 99% problem-free, 1% overdue oil change). Or sooner if that gets delayed for whatever reason. He will also be arranging shipping for me, so that's one less thing I have to worry about. Hopefully we don't get another broken-English-speaking Russian driver like I did with 559. And definitely no to Jared from Shipping Wars -- 5000's fate was pretty bad in that enclosed torture chamber (kidding! ...on the hospitality part, not the Jared part).
To quote Joe Walsh, "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do. Life's been good to me so far!" :biggrin:
David T
09-08-2014, 04:43 PM
Okay, no problem ;)
I'll wait till you have the car home :)
Congratulations on your find. Good luck with the resto but I find it hard to understand why you are estimating $80K. To try to restore as many of the body panels as possible you need to get Chris Nickleson to fix you up. You didn't mention anything about your paperwork. I hope you got a Title you can register the car with. Obviously you must replace any missing parts with whatever you can locate but if you intend to keep the car as original as possible you must repair as many of the original parts as possible. The car has some history and "provenience" but you need to document it all. Be careful spending money on it, as historically important as it may be, it is only worth so much. IMHO it is not worth $80K.
I find it hard to understand why you are estimating $80K. To try to restore as many of the body panels as possible you need to get Chris Nickleson to fix you up. You didn't mention anything about your paperwork. I hope you got a Title you can register the car with. Obviously you must replace any missing parts with whatever you can locate but if you intend to keep the car as original as possible you must repair as many of the original parts as possible. The car has some history and "provenience" but you need to document it all. Be careful spending money on it, as historically important as it may be, it is only worth so much. IMHO it is not worth $80K.$80,000 was Josh's estimate, not mine, so you'll have to ask him where that number comes from. I'm definitely not spending that much on it right away. For now, I'll get it running, then worry about the cosmetics, then go for the full-off resto long-term once I've saved up some funds.
David T
09-08-2014, 05:00 PM
$80,000 was Josh's estimate, not mine, so you'll have to ask him where that number comes from. I'm definitely not spending that much on it right away. For now, I'll get it running, then worry about the cosmetics, then go for the full-off resto long-term once I've saved up some funds.
The $80K probably includes labor then. Could be as much as 1/2 of the estimate. Yes, the immediate plan should be to stop any further deterioration and do what you can to make it driveable. The cosmetics can wait but in the meantime you should be stockpiling any parts you need and can find.
Delorean Industries
09-08-2014, 05:16 PM
The cosmetics are definitely heavy on this one. 80k is a solid estimate including shipping, purchase price etc and not knowing the condition of anything with the hopes of maintaining originality when ever possible.
Dangermouse
09-08-2014, 05:20 PM
I was just looking at that car earlier today. Didn't know it was 537, but should have twigged from the description. Lots of work to do, indeed.
refugeefromcalif
09-08-2014, 06:26 PM
Congrats Shep and Welcome back!
(80K is a Chunk of change)!
George
The cosmetics are definitely heavy on this one."Weight has nothing to do with it!!!" :biggrin:
I will have to see what it looks like in person, but frankly the hood and rear driver's quarterpanel are the worst of the stainless panels. Sourcing a T panel shouldn't be terribly difficult, and the hood/quarterpanel will need to be repaired, but the rest of the stainless looks mostly intact and fine (maybe slight warping, can't tell yet). Front fascia needs major repair though, something very, very bad happened to it. Almost like a lifted truck brake-checked him and he didn't stop in time, and the bumper smashed right into the headlights, completely missing the bumper. Yeah it's nasty to say the least. Grille survived in one piece, but the supports are probably toast.
80k is a solid estimate including shipping, purchase price etc and not knowing the condition of anything with the hopes of maintaining originality when ever possible.Wait, that includes purchase price and shipping? Well hell man, don't scare me like that :D
By the way: not sure if I want anything done to the trunk area other than fixing the one carpet flap (or removing them all like 559) and adding the fuel access panel, so that should cut costs considerably. It seems to have been intentionally left as bare as possible to both improve MPG (less weight) and allow easy access to the fuel components for EPA testing. Might want a touchup paint job there, but that's last on the list. Getting it running is first and foremost.
And just to make it official, once it's in my hands, here's my plan of attack:
1) Get it to turn over and actually catch/engage. Even if it stalls immediately, at least you can hear her voice! I want to know what she sounds like after all these years of torture.
2) Get it reliably running (fix all major problem areas not addressed in point 1)
3) Get it driving (refresh wheels, brakes, electrical system, etc.) If it can drive in the parking lot, this is achieved, no need for public road testing yet!
4) Get it reliably driving (fix all major problem areas not addressed in point 3) -- this means being able to drive on public roads (not actually doing it yet)
5) Work on major cosmetics (stainless, seats, front fascia rework), just the stuff required to drive through a rainstorm without running into issues
6) Test drive (woo hoo! :biggrin: )
7) Walk of shame back to 559 ( :frown: )
8) Long-term restoration begins!
And to elaborate on point 8: by this, I mean a full-off refurb. Two reasons why I'm going this route: 1) time is of the essence in terms of repairs, cosmetics can wait for now, we need to get this baby running!, and 2) finances. I have a well-paying job, but going to college, getting a new car, wedding plans, and buying/restoring two DeLoreans really sucks the money out of you :8ball: How my credit is as good as it is is a mystery and a blessing all in one. Never fear though, the money I borrowed from Josh is all that I owe him to date -- the rest is borrowed from other sources and/or placed on credit cards, it'll just take a few years to pay it all off.
Note to self: remember when I said "if I could do it all over again, I'd still do it the same way?" Guess what... :hihi2: Doing it the same way!!!
Congrats Shep and Welcome back!
(80K is a Chunk of change)!
GeorgeThanks George! (And also to anyone else I haven't thanked yet -- apologies for unintentionally missing you). It sure is great to be back. I know I've had my differences with select members (none of which have crossed paths with me yet :wiggle: ), but I'm turning over a new leaf and trying not to take part in any "unnecessary bulls*** drama" as one of the mods recently put it.
Fun statistic: $80K is minimum two years pay after taxes. Now you see why I'm not going all-out quite yet ;)
EDIT: Missed a spot!
The $80K probably includes labor then.Correct, that number includes labor. I can take this two routes: do it myself and have Josh fix and redo my mistakes, or just get it done right the first time. Frankly, I'd prefer the latter.
Seriously, I've seen how perfectionist he is at some things. It's both hilarious and uplifting all in one go. I thought he was just like that with DeLoreans, but after the water situation (intentionally vague -- not sure who all knows about it), I found out otherwise. It's a wonder some of the people he works with still put up with that kind of attention to detail! No room for interns with him, do it right the first time or do it on your dime. I wish everyone I dealt with was like that to be honest.
I'm turning over a new leaf and trying not to take part in any "unnecessary bulls*** drama" as one of the mods recently put it.Well, that didn't last long... :wow: Apparently DMCTalk has no place for looking for Wings-A-Loft alternatives... Am I really that far out of line to ask for such a thing without it devolving into such a hellfire? Good lord, I can't wait to ask about alternatives to a DMCH dashboard considering 537 needs one and it DMCH's version isn't exactly concours being plastic and all. The hell guys?
Anyways, moving on, just sent the paperwork in, so I'll give you guys a little more info: the VIN isn't 17 digits like most DeLoreans, and is actually only 11 digits long. Keep it on the D/L though, I may have just unlocked the mystery to finding all these early 1980 DeLoreans. Don't tell Google! :shhh:
Waaaait, sonufa (https://www.google.com/search?q=vin+537) :frown:
Dangermouse
09-09-2014, 09:46 AM
I think you should put a zipper in that rear panel! All the hard work has already been done :)
I think you should put a zipper in that rear panel! All the hard work has already been done :):confused0:
EDIT: OH! Gotcha. I kept thinking the parcel shelf that's missing the cargo net, not the rear quarterpanel. Good one! :histerical1:
Okay, two notes to those following this thread:
1) Don't panic! But while the paperwork went through, they neglected to tell me I needed to submit my driver's license. I did so and am waiting to hear back on that.
2) Those of you that have managed to come across the for sale ad, there were a few "inaccessible" pictures that I managed to dig up and store that they didn't share. If you're wondering how to get to them, they numbered the image files sequentially, and if you use Firefox, this addon (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/url-flipper/) works wonders to uncover the rest. 55 pictures total. No need to download them though, I've got everything stored on three of my machines for reference.
3) I said two notes, why are you reading this??? :biggrin: (<-- tongue-in-cheek humor there)
And an unrelated-to-537 but related-to-me side point: those of you that aren't feeling the world's best towards me now, please see here (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10601-Sorry-guys).
Denverdelorean
09-09-2014, 06:21 PM
Okay, two notes to those following this thread:
1) Don't panic! But while the paperwork went through, they neglected to tell me I needed to submit my driver's license. I did so and am waiting to hear back on that.
2) Those of you that have managed to come across the for sale ad, there were a few "inaccessible" pictures that I managed to dig up and store that they didn't share. If you're wondering how to get to them, they numbered the image files sequentially, and if you use Firefox, this addon (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/url-flipper/) works wonders to uncover the rest. 55 pictures total. No need to download them though, I've got everything stored on three of my machines for reference.
3) I said two notes, why are you reading this??? :biggrin: (<-- tongue-in-cheek humor there)
And an unrelated-to-537 but related-to-me side point: those of you that aren't feeling the world's best towards me now, please see here (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10601-Sorry-guys).
I bought 3519 from these folks. Good crew but make sure you keep on top of them with the paperwork. They still have the car listed for sale and are taking calls on it. (from me, as I didn't know this was your vin. I saw the flapped hood and wanted to inquire about the early vin) So really keep after them about reserving it for you. It will take a while to get the shipping sorted out too. They have a provider that they partner with that I ended up using and I was very happy.
It will be very cool to have that early car restored!
I bought 3519 from these folks. Good crew but make sure you keep on top of them with the paperwork. They still have the car listed for sale and are taking calls on it. (from me, as I didn't know this was your vin. I saw the flapped hood and wanted to inquire about the early vin) So really keep after them about reserving it for you. It will take a while to get the shipping sorted out too. They have a provider that they partner with that I ended up using and I was very happy.
It will be very cool to have that early car restored!Thanks for the tips! Will keep all that in mind.
Small update: they told me all necessary documentation has been received and all they need is payment now, and in addition to that, once they receive a deposit, they are willing to take the ad down. So once it's funded and the title is en route, I'll post some pics! Be warned: they're dreadful :frown: But so was 559's pre-restoration pics, just... not quite so bad... Frankly, I'm hoping Chris Nicholson can save this hood, just looking at it makes me want to :cry:
And a note to DPI Josh: I know I half-joked about this, but you've gotta get on the ball with your emails man. I know it's a busy week, but we need to figure out the payment logistics and transport logistics stat! Chop chop, no time to waste! :tongue: I can call if you'd prefer instead though, in all seriousness. Sometimes I find it's quicker to talk through it verbally than in written form.
Once payment clears and the ad is taken down, I'll post the pictures! :D
http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1980-dmc-delorean--c-3363.htm
Okay, hmm, wee problem with this whole situation/thread/etc. Just got off the phone with DPI Josh (man that guy works late hours), and we came to a consensus, with a catch:
1) for everything that it is, it's very, very too far gone to even try and salvage financially. The one part of the equation that he may have told me before (but didn't really sink in if he did) was that I'm in way, way over my head financially. Any way I look at it, I'm in $10,000 more than I'll ever get out of it. While this didn't seem bad, he then told me "imagine that money going to 559". More powerful yet truer words never spoken.
2) I pitched the hypothetical to him: with all that in mind, if we managed to maximize every square inch of everything we can out of it, what would be a reasonable price to pay for it? The answer was about $1,000, less than what I make in half a month after taxes/benefits/etc. Clearly the dealership is not willing to part with it for $1,000, so any way I look at it, I'm in over my head.
3) Then we discussed timeline: what if I gave it to him for him to restore? Might work, perhaps, but "customer cars come first", so it would get pushed to the backburner. In addition to that, there are going to be storage fees however you look at it.
Which all leads to:
4) Since this car makes zero financial sense, and I haven't paid a dime towards them yet, I'm looking at alternatives. Not alternative DeLoreans, but rather alternative solutions on how to handle all of this. Do I just go all in and eat up the costs like a maniac, burying myself that much further into debt all while getting nothing but a pat on the back and a five-figure bill of debt for it all from the community? Or is there a way to fundraise outside the GPS clock project? I mean, that whole 1000px by 1000px image of ad-space was a piece of instant-millionaire genius, but frankly I'm not an ideas man, and kickstarter usually expects something in return more than just a ride in a piece of history. I'm not turning into a lawsuit-machine in an attempt to catch someone off their legal guard. I mean frankly, you start that crap and it comes back to bite you in the ass over and over again until you're nothing more than a ginger-head man.
Maybe I'll start a new thread for this, but I honestly do not know what to do here. This is an amazing piece of history that simply cannot be shyed away from, but I don't know who to turn to, or what to do here. Soliciting resident 500-series experts to see if they're interested in buying is just as bad as the , and I mean this isn't like asking you to buy me a side of fries for lunch, this is a major, major purchase that can't just be sprung upon like this. I can't do a joint owership deal where 500 people pay $500 each and magically come up with $50,000 to come up with the whole thing without running the risk of parting it out (I'd go with a raffle but...? I don't know, seems kinda DCS-ripoff-ish to me, but maybe? Bah :frown: ).
What matters to me is preserving this piece of history. Here's the problem: as much as the historical significance trumps this, the parts are potentially worth more than the whole. I can name extremely rare parts that [i]I'd like to buy, but that would be selfish of me to do that. If the dealership knows this, or any of the historical significance, they'll jump the price up and it'll jump immediately into "parted-out-only" territory. Problem is, I can't get them to come down on price either, unless time takes its toll somehow, but even then, would a $5,000 loss be worth it? $2,500 loss? And that's not even counting additional problems that could pop up -- the $10,000 estimate was conservative, after all. It would be one thing if this were VIN 1235 or something that had no apparent historical significance whatsoever other than being one late to the party. But it's not.
[spacing this out so the TL;DR crowd knows when to stop TL;DR'ing]
If anyone has any feedback, advice, etc. to offer, I'm all ears at this point. Canadian Josh, I don't know if you were trying to troll me with that post or not, but either way, I don't think I can take on the financial burden without some kind of revelation as to where the funds would come from. And don't anyone say "lottery" -- my almost-mother-in-law tried playing 559 recently and only won $500, so that's not exactly going to help much.
So, as much as I'd like to have 537 in my collection, the finances just don't make sense right now. And the worst part? What would JZD do? Well, that's the part we try to forget, not remember, so what now??? :frown:
Iznodmad
09-09-2014, 11:07 PM
Shep, since you are asking for advice...drop it and don't look back. Unless you plan to keep this thing forever, just forget about it. You'd only be stealing from your ability to take the best care of 559 that you can. Run, don't walk away. I'm not saying that bc I want the car, bc I don't. I'm saying it bc I have lots of experience with owning multiple DeLoreans and I wouldn't even attempt this one. Just don't do it. Trust me.
Denverdelorean
09-10-2014, 12:26 AM
Shep, since you are asking for advice...drop it and don't look back. Unless you plan to keep this thing forever, just forget about it. You'd only be stealing from your ability to take the best care of 559 that you can. Run, don't walk away. I'm not saying that bc I want the car, bc I don't. I'm saying it bc I have lots of experience with owning multiple DeLoreans and I wouldn't even attempt this one. Just don't do it. Trust me.
I think if it were your only chance at a D, then it would be OK. You can get it to decent driver status for 10 to 15k, and then improve it over time from there. Other than being a low vin, it is just a black interior automatic 81. The choice is ultimately yours. If it were me, Maybe i would get it, restore it, and turn 3519 into a time machine. i dunno.
Incidentally, here is a before and after-so-far of 3519. ( we are failing our emissions test in the after pic!) I am about 17k in all up. Including the 10k purchase price from BHCC.
3068030679
Phil Peters
09-10-2014, 07:32 AM
- Blackout A/C panel. No, that is not a typo, the ENTIRE A/C panel is completely BLACK! Only VIN 500 is known to be like this, so this alone makes it 1 of 2.
Hi Shep,
I'm curious as to how the blackout A/C panel on this car and VIN 500 differ from the 'standard' blackout A/C panel? It's hard to tell from the photos.
30683
Seems to be a consensus here. Thanks for the support guys. Looks like I'm walking away. Just sent them a fax explaining the situation and backing out. If they come after me, we'll cross that bridge, but I did explain that I hope to do future business with them (which is entirely true, considering it's not the first time a rare D was spotted on there).
I suppose there is an upside to all of this however. Even without pictures of the VIN plate, we do have a new VIN format that I personally have never seen before. If anyone else has, maybe this is meaningless, but this could potentially be an answer to all those "where is vin 5xx" questions on the cars we don't know anything about (515, 517, 558, etc.). Here it is, in its entirety, for all to see:
26T8D000537
That's it. All 11 digits of it. Keep in mind that the VIN standard was required for 81 cars onwards, and since this was titled as a 1980, it was exempt. Going by my handy VIN Calculator (http://vin559.com/vincalc) page, if it were manufactured as an 81, it would be prefixed with "SCEDT", the number "8" would be a letter "B", and there would be a check digit between the "T" and the "8", like so: SCEDT26T9BD000537, which is NOT the real VIN according to the title they have. Maybe the number "8" is actually supposed to be a letter "B" and simply a misprint, either way, Google brings up zero results for either short VIN, and ditto for CarFax. It's strange considering you'd think the dealership putting it up for sale would trigger something in the CarFax database, but apparently not.
Either way, maybe this is the long-awaited lead that will uncover more discoveries, like what ever happened to 558 after last believed contact with PJ Grady (which I just searched for in CarFax and Google, and still no results).
Message to ALL DeLorean Vendors and enthusiasts: Please, by all means, feel free to do as much digging with this new VIN format as you want, no need to credit me or anything. As I told Josh over the phone, what matters the most to me is the historical significance of this D. That being said, if this leads to even one more D being found that was previously thought to be lost, it will justify this whole endeavor I took up. I do not mean to start religious debates here, but maybe this has a "higher purpose" so to speak, one that we mortals (myself included) simply do not understand as of yet. Only time will tell.
As what seems to be my new catchphrase: Onwards and upwards! :)
Hi Shep,
I'm curious as to how the blackout A/C panel on this car and VIN 500 differ from the 'standard' blackout A/C panel? It's hard to tell from the photos.
30683Either there were some developments I'm unaware of in the year I was gone or some confusion on one of our parts, but what does "standard" blackout A/C panel mean? Last I knew, only VIN 500 was known to have one, so there is no "standard" as far as I'm aware. Are you talking aftermarket A/C panel, or factory? If it's a factory job, what other VIN's have one that you know of?
Dangermouse
09-10-2014, 10:12 AM
Shep
Did you get a photo of the vin plate by any chance?
Did you get a photo of the vin plate by any chance?Nope:
Even without pictures of the VIN plateI can upload what I have though, but it's still publicly available, so not sure if I will.
I don't recall who's running the For Sale picture stuff, but if they're interested, I do have all the pictures from the For Sale page in one ZIP file, purely for convenience of emailing the whole set. PM me for details.
Phil Peters
09-10-2014, 10:58 AM
Either there were some developments I'm unaware of in the year I was gone or some confusion on one of our parts, but what does "standard" blackout A/C panel mean? Last I knew, only VIN 500 was known to have one, so there is no "standard" as far as I'm aware. Are you talking aftermarket A/C panel, or factory? If it's a factory job, what other VIN's have one that you know of?
Assuming we're talking about the same part then VINs 510, 737 and most (if not all) of the 121XX cars have this blackout A/C panel as a 'standard' (i.e. factory fitted) part.
Here it is fitted to VIN 12176:
30684
I wouldn't be surprised if there are other cars out there that have the blackout A/C panel too.
It would be interesting to know if there was an official VIN cutoff for this part change.
Assuming we're talking about the same part then VINs 510, 737 and most (if not all) of the 121XX cars have this blackout A/C panel as a 'standard' (i.e. factory fitted) part.
Here it is fitted to VIN 12176:
30684
I wouldn't be surprised if there are other cars out there that have the blackout A/C panel too.
It would be interesting to know if there was an official VIN cutoff for this part change.Looks like we are. Huh, not sure when that info surfaced, but I certainly missed the boat on that one. Okay, well good to know no big loss there. My bad for calling it a "1 of 2" car because of it then.
Dangermouse
09-10-2014, 11:42 AM
Don't worry, there were 9200 cars and each bloody one was different, so you can't know each one individually :)
I suppose there is an upside to all of this however. Even without pictures of the VIN plate, we do have a new VIN format that I personally have never seen before. If anyone else has, maybe this is meaningless, but this could potentially be an answer to all those "where is vin 5xx" questions on the cars we don't know anything about (515, 517, 558, etc.).
I know VIN568 was a company car, but what happened to this car is a mystery? (according to the DOD?)
Maybe someone else has some information about it?
306893069130690
I know VIN568 was a company car, but what happened to this car is a mystery? (according to the DOD?)
Maybe someone else has some information about it?
306893069130690By the part you quoted, I meant what happened to D's that may have potentially been titled as 1980's, instead of 1981's. The documents you posted have the full VIN, so I strongly suspect it was built in 1981 and titled as such. 515 and 517 on the other hand vanished without a trace, which makes me wonder if they used this alternative VIN format instead of the one we all know (and my VIN Calculator site uses) and may explain why no trace of them has ever been found. It's not for lack of trying, but just unintended misinformation. Similar to looking for a missing child, but being given the wrong name -- If his name is "Chris" and you go looking for a "Robert", you'll turn up empty, but fare far better looking for a "Chris" since that is in fact his name. Hopefully that makes more sense than my previous wording.
DMCMW Dave
09-10-2014, 04:16 PM
I think what is most likely here, in the absence of photos of the VIN tag, that the dealer simply put the wrong number in the ad.
I've seen cars where the VIN tag does not even match the title, in some states (notably Florida and maybe New Hampshire) they didn't have room in their forms for all the digits so often the "SC" got dropped somewhere along the way.
Rich W
09-10-2014, 04:20 PM
By the part you quoted, I meant what happened to D's that may have potentially been titled as 1980's, instead of 1981's. The documents you posted have the full VIN, so I strongly suspect it was built in 1981 and titled as such. 515 and 517 on the other hand vanished without a trace, which makes me wonder if they used this alternative VIN format instead of the one we all know (and my VIN Calculator site uses) and may explain why no trace of them has ever been found. It's not for lack of trying, but just unintended misinformation.
Shep and others interested in 500 Series DeLoreans ...
Just because some information is not recently posted on one DeLorean Forum does not mean a vehicle's location and/or ownership status is not known.
One case in point: VIN...537, which was most recently offered for sale in August 2014. Initial efforts were made at purchasing it, but the efforts have been
"complicated" by a lot of more recent attention. Now it is a matter of time (and other potential "cash-in-hand" offers) that will guide the fate of VIN...537.
The location and ownership details are also known for VIN...515 and VIN...517 (for quite a few years now), but sometimes this can be a very slow process
to convince someone to sell a vehicle they have owned for decades (see the How do DeLoreans become project cars thread). Sometimes you have to play
it slow, build up a relationship with the owner and eventually convince them (or their family, after they pass on) to sell you the vehicle. It can take weeks,
months or years for this to happen, so sometimes it's best to wait until you have a vehicle and all it's paperwork before making a public announcement.
Later,
Rich W.
Rich W
09-10-2014, 04:23 PM
I think what is most likely here, in the absence of photos of the VIN tag, that the dealer simply put the wrong number in the ad.
I've seen cars where the VIN tag does not even match the title, in some states (notably Florida and maybe New Hampshire) they didn't have room in their forms for all the digits so often the "SC" got dropped somewhere along the way.
Agreed. Most of the remaining Pilot cars (at least the few that still exist) include the SCEDT on their dash VIN plate.
DMCMW Dave
09-10-2014, 04:28 PM
....... so sometimes it's best to wait until you have a vehicle and all it's paperwork before making a public announcement.
Later,
Rich W.
Yeah - I suspect that BHCC has had a ton of calls/emails/web hits on this and now think they have some crazy-rare highly desirable collector car on hand. So the price will go up for a while or they will refuse to deal. Like you said - better to negotiate in private.
Yeah - I suspect that BHCC has had a ton of calls/emails/web hits on this and now think they have some crazy-rare highly desirable collector car on hand. So the price will go up for a while or they will refuse to deal. Like you said - better to negotiate in private.One of the reasons I asked no one to post the link, so that kind of thing wouldn't happen... :frown:
David T
09-10-2014, 05:21 PM
One of the reasons I asked no one to post the link, so that kind of thing wouldn't happen... :frown:
As unusual as a XXXXXX5XX car may be, not every one is historically significant. Just because they were not originally sold to the general public does not, by itself, make it more valuable. The dealer will put a high price on it and if no one bits they will eventually lower the price or remove it from the marketplace. As for the financial side, again it is all about value. If it is going to take $80K to buy, transport, and restore, it is WAY more than the car will be worth when finished. At least by today's standards. Not all cars are worth saving. Take a look at what is going on with all of the Corvettes that fell into the sinkhole in the museum. Not all of them are worth fixing and some will not be fixed. For now the best that can be done is to document it as much as you can for future reference for other 5XX series cars.
The location and ownership details are also known for VIN...515 and VIN...517 (for quite a few years now), but sometimes this can be a very slow process
to convince someone to sell a vehicle they have owned for decades (see the How do DeLoreans become project cars thread). Sometimes you have to play
it slow, build up a relationship with the owner and eventually convince them (or their family, after they pass on) to sell you the vehicle. It can take weeks,
months or years for this to happen, so sometimes it's best to wait until you have a vehicle and all it's paperwork before making a public announcement.Thanks for the input Rich. Would it be possible for you to PM me your email so I can forward things like this to you in the future? Not that I'm expecting it to happen again, but one of the reasons it was brought to my attention was that I own a 5xx car, so I suspect this won't be the last time something like this will happen (and if memory serves, it wasn't the first either, just the only one I took into serious consideration). You seem to know the "current" status of some of the VIN's that to the best of my knowledge were lost long ago, so I think it would be wise if I were to play it this route in the future. Or would you rather me email Tony Swann? I do have his email on file, but the thought of the knowledge being "under the radar" never occurred to me before.
Good to know there's a lot of "behind the scenes" on this kind of thing that I'm not aware of. If I may ask one question without any follow-ups, is the location of VIN 558 known? Just curious since it is the most significant VIN next to mine. Don't need (nor want) to know where, just wondering if it's at least not lost in the sands of time.
Rich W
09-10-2014, 06:21 PM
Thanks for the input Rich. Would it be possible for you to PM me your email so I can forward things like this to you in the future? Not that I'm expecting it to happen again, but one of the reasons it was brought to my attention was that I own a 5xx car, so I suspect this won't be the last time something like this will happen (and if memory serves, it wasn't the first either, just the only one I took into serious consideration). You seem to know the "current" status of some of the VIN's that to the best of my knowledge were lost long ago, so I think it would be wise if I were to play it this route in the future. Or would you rather me email Tony Swann? I do have his email on file, but the thought of the knowledge being "under the radar" never occurred to me before.
Good to know there's a lot of "behind the scenes" on this kind of thing that I'm not aware of. If I may ask one question without any follow-ups, is the location of VIN 558 known? Just curious since it is the most significant VIN next to mine. Don't need (nor want) to know where, just wondering if it's at least not lost in the sands of time.
Shep - PM Sent.
As David T mentioned, the fact that a DeLorean is a 005xx series car does not itself make the car more historically significant than another, but since many were either
Engineering Test Vehicles, EPA/DOT Certification Vehicles or CFR Leased - DMC Company Cars, more than a few of these cars are historically significant. Even if a few
of these very early cars cannot or will not be restored, due to cost, there are specific parts that could be used to repair or restore other 500 series cars in the future.
Early doors fit better on early cars (especially some early underbodies), so there is a good case for some early cars to be designated donors for other early cars.
Everyone will have a different priority list, but few DeLorean enthusiasts would argue that parts for a "basket case 5xx car" should be used to help repair or restore one
of the original Legend DeLoreans, whether it be 502, 528, 530 or even 558 (before its Legend engine was removed). Some 5xx cars can "help" other 5xx cars survive.
ILM1010
09-11-2014, 01:48 AM
A Delorean is only worth the amount someone will buy it from you. I bought 726 at 15 grand, 6 years ago, i have since put money into fixing it and restoring it. Does this mean I can sell it for what i have paid....no. But it sure is fun to drive and show off. If I were a serious Delorean collector, I would give them 4 grand, it's a beat up POS...its cool only to us that know the history. 80 grand to restore????
Id buy a Nissan GTR for 80 grand, or a nice porsche 911 or a Pantera
-Pete
A Delorean is only worth the amount someone will buy it from you. I bought 726 at 15 grand, 6 years ago, i have since put money into fixing it and restoring it. Does this mean I can sell it for what i have paid....no. But it sure is fun to drive and show off. If I were a serious Delorean collector, I would give them 4 grand, it's a beat up POS...its cool only to us that know the history. 80 grand to restore????
Id buy a Nissan GTR for 80 grand, or a nice porsche 911 or a Pantera
-PeteWell, since you mentioned other kinds of cars, I'd personally go with a Cheetah Evolution (http://cheetahevolution.com/) if I had $80,000 to drop on a car at any given point. "Only" $45,000 base cost, gull wing doors, two seater, much more powerful drivetrain (well, stock anyways -- Nicholas R's conversion would probably whoop a Cheetah's ass on a drag strip :wink: ). Originally made in the 70's (one of which I've seen in person), this is a kit car replica. Would get tons of looks all round I'm sure. Retirement project though; interestingly I could've sworn the price was $57,500 or something higher, so either the price came down or my memory's bad. Not sure, but either way, it would be quite the looker. :)
I digress though, that's a story for the Open Discussion forum...
Nicholas R
09-11-2014, 06:54 PM
If I had $80,000 to put into my car, I'd rip the engine and transmission out, rework the frame to fit a Mendeola Transaxle, and then fit a blown LS9 into the car. :burnout:
Delorean02378
09-12-2014, 12:32 PM
$80,000 to restore this car??? That's insane. The most experienced, knowledgeable, Delorean mechanic in the world (Rob Grady) would have it back to concourse for $55,000 or less.
If I had the chance to own $80000 I would buy VIN502 twin turbo :thinkin:
Delorean02378
09-12-2014, 03:20 PM
If I had the chance to own $80000 I would buy VIN502 twin turbo :thinkin:
Which is the one Rob Grady owned when he was winning all the Delorean Concours shows.
But now in New Zealand I think?
Delorean02378
09-12-2014, 03:25 PM
But now in New Zealand I think?
I believe you're correct and speaking of which, the Chronology still shows Long Island. Wonder if the new owner can confirm and send Shannon an update to get it changed.
DMCMW Dave
09-12-2014, 03:29 PM
I believe you're correct and speaking of which, the Chronology still shows Long Island. Wonder if the new owner can confirm and send Shannon an update to get it changed.
I believe the new owner is well off the radar.
Nicholas R
09-12-2014, 05:01 PM
I believe the new owner is well off the radar.
Is that the same person that almost bought Proto 1 when it was on eBay a few years ago?
Tillsy
09-12-2014, 06:17 PM
I believe the new owner is well off the radar.
So it IS in New Zealand then :hysterical:
nick sutton
09-13-2014, 09:16 AM
For your interest the early 500 cars were built with hand lay GRP engine covers, rear louvers and hood cruciform. The production tooling for these parts were not complete until Feb 1981 so in the meantime Lotus Cars fabricated these parts at Hethel and shipped them over to Dunmurry. That's why they look different.
Nick Sutton
$80,000 to restore this car??? That's insane. The most experienced, knowledgeable, Delorean mechanic in the world (Rob Grady) would have it back to concourse for $55,000 or less.I'm sorry, but I'm calling shenanigans on this. If you want to buy it, get it running, and flip it, be my guest, but $55,000 is waaaay short when you factor in missing parts, labor, etc. And if you mean he would fix it up himself in his spare time, well, what spare time? It would take several years to get it back on the road since customer cars come first. We pay him to do the work on our cars, but who pays him to work on his own cars?
If you want to send me a bill for an $55,000 restoration broken down by part and hour, I may change my mind and take you up on a partial resto. Until then, I talked to DPI Josh, and he's the one that gave me the $80,000 number. Speaking from experience, I had 559 restored for about $50,000 to $60,000 there, and that didn't factor in the interior at all, just the drivetrain. Parts (and labor too) have increased in cost over the last few years, so you'd be hard-pressed to find all the right parts alone for $50,000
For your interest the early 500 cars were built with hand lay GRP engine covers, rear louvers and hood cruciform. The production tooling for these parts were not complete until Feb 1981 so in the meantime Lotus Cars fabricated these parts at Hethel and shipped them over to Dunmurry. That's why they look different.
Nick SuttonThanks for the info Nick! Interesting, so it wasn't laziness on the production worker's part that the underside was white (like I had always thought), it's just a different source entirely. Good to know! :)
Delorean02378
09-30-2014, 04:29 PM
Made an offer on the car yesterday and received a reply today stating that this car has been sold. Hopefully it's someone on the forum that will update us on the restoration.
Andrew
10-03-2014, 05:46 PM
IMO It would not take 80K to turn that car into a running driving Delorean. Assuming a 10K purchase price, it could be a running driving car that passes the 10 foot test for another 10K. That assumes the new owner doing the work him/herself, fixing parts that can be fixed and being resourceful in buying used parts (including parts with some degree of acceptable defects such as headlight eyebrows, or a dinged t-panel & LR quarter.)
However, if you want a car that passes the microscope test and produces 250+ HP without getting your hands dirty in the process, the sky's the limit on cost. It really all depends on what you want and how much you're willing to do yourself. Less than 48 hours ago I put about 20 miles on my Delorean that I purchased July 15, 2014 and I have less than 1/10 of $80K into it. After less than another $500 in parts it will "done." I'll be taking it on a 1,000 plus mile road trip next year to celebrate.
Andrew
4194
5052
Dangermouse
12-10-2014, 07:55 AM
I understand that this car is on its way to England.
kbrown84
12-17-2014, 08:11 PM
i just happen to have a drivers rear quarter panel and front fascia for sale still!! ;-)
KB
Chris Nicholson
02-21-2015, 05:59 AM
Hi all
Just caught up with this thread, any news on this car coming to England? It would be great to help the owner restore it, and great chance for me to compare her to 530, with the refurbishment finally underway.
As for the estimate on the repair for this car, you can restore 537 for under $50,000 easily. Projects like these are rare, which means buying new parts are not always the way to go to restore them correctly, i know there are some missing parts, Buying second hand parts from any of the delorean shops across the world is another way to go. Rob at PJ Grady has a ton of parts that could save a lot of money in a resto like this one. If i was not restoring Pilot 19, and 530, i would have taken it on, I admit labour would not be a factor lol
Best wishes!
Chris Nicholson
PJ Grady Europe
Dangermouse
06-23-2016, 04:10 PM
00537 resurfaces in England, as it was at BHCC and now with a £18000/$27700 price tag
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131856653636
the usual English understatement "Some mechanical and cosmetic work needed (see photos)"
Delorean3610
06-23-2016, 10:21 PM
May I suggest the name of "Buster".after the mythbuster crash test dummy, or perhaps "DOTTY". Because of the DOT.
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