Starter won't crank

[Trstno1]

Hey guys

So many of you know I just purchased my car a bit ago. Since then, I have been cleaning 30 years of dirt, oil, and grime from the underbody including de-greasing the engine. After I was finished, I put the brand new battery back in and tried to start it----and nothing. I have power, buzzer, lights, but the starter just clicks and sounds bound up and the engine does not turn over. I purchased this car running, and it seemed to have started easily before my cleaning. What is everyone's thoughts? I'm guessing that maybe water got into the starter/ solenoid and now I need a new starter.......:banghead: does anyone know which pins on the solenoid I can jump at the starter to test directly before pulling it?

Has this happened to anyone else? I have done nothing with the electrical. I was going to pull the starter and test it from there. Do you guys know if I can just pull off the oil filter to remove the starter without dropping the rest of the oil right now? I would hate to replace the oil and filter just to re-install a starter and have an issue and have to take it out again.

is there any other thing I could check?

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated!

[DMCMW Dave]

Hey guys

So many of you know I just purchased my car a bit ago. Since then, I have been cleaning 30 years of dirt, oil, and grime from the underbody including de-greasing the engine. After I was finished, I put the brand new battery back in and tried to start it----and nothing. I have power, buzzer, lights, but the starter just clicks and sounds bound up and the engine does not turn over. I purchased this car running, and it seemed to have started easily before my cleaning. What is everyone's thoughts? I'm guessing that maybe water got into the starter/ solenoid and now I need a new starter.......:banghead: does anyone know which pins on the solenoid I can jump at the starter to test directly before pulling it?

Has this happened to anyone else? I have done nothing with the electrical. I was going to pull the starter and test it from there. Do you guys know if I can just pull off the oil filter to remove the starter without dropping the rest of the oil right now? I would hate to replace the oil and filter just to re-install a starter and have an issue and have to take it out again.

is there any other thing I could check?

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated!

You can R&R the filter and will at most lose a cup of oil. Less if the car has been sitting for a day.

Is it an early car? Starter recall done? If not they are twitchy about even a moderately low battery. Try jumping it.

[Trstno1]

You can R&R the filter and will at most lose a cup of oil. Less if the car has been sitting for a day.

Is it an early car? Starter recall done? If not they are twitchy about even a moderately low battery. Try jumping it.

Well, not sure about the starter recall, but it was a late 81 build - October.

I tried to jump it, and it sounds like something in the starter is shorting or binding. I do get a click that sounds like the bendix is activating but I suppose I could be wrong. Maybe the solenoid is working but the starter itself is bound up? Maybe I sprayed too much water on the starter when I was degreasing the engine? Voltage goes from 14.5v down to 11.5-12v when cranking is attempted. Voltage is good at the key cylinder and at the starter when attempting to start. I could not have done anything to seize the motor just by degreasing the engine right? It appears to turn by hand, so I don't think that's it. Huh..... :dunno: I guess I've just never seen a starter seize before by degreasing an engine.....

[Rich]

You say the battery is new. As Dave says, be sure it's fully charged and/or jump it, then try starting.

We'll assume the engine is free to turn since it ran OK before cleaning.

The two most common problems are
1. Starter relay recall/mod not done (as Dave notes)
2. Burned/pitted starter solenoid

The cleaning should not have affected either one of those but whatever you did might have made these other issues become apparent. Be sure whatever you cleaned it with has dried off of the starter/wiring and be sure the cable contacts at the starter are OK/clean/tight. Maybe water got into the solenoid but I think it's pretty well-sealed.

Remember to disconnect the batt. negative terminal before wrenching on any starter cable contacts.

[Dangermouse]

As Dave suggests, give the starter itself a wallop with a rubber mallet in case it has got itself bound up.

[Josh]

You can easily just unscrew the filter. It will dump a bit of oil, just whats in the filter really I would replace it since its off though.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Check that the nuts holding the starter wires are tight (disconnect battery first).

[Trstno1]

Ok, so before I take this starter out I want to make sure that the wiring going to the starter is doing what it should be. I have 2 or 3 thick reds and a bundle of browns that appear to all be connected to the same post and is 12V hot. The chassis is the starter's ground via the mounting bolts. The white/red wire goes to 12v when the key is in the start position, but what does the blue/yellow do? Anyone know? That is the only wire I cannot figure out.

[DMCMW Dave]

Blue yellow feeds the relay that bypasses one of the ballast resistors as you crank the engine.

[Trstno1]

Blue yellow feeds the relay that bypasses one of the ballast resistors as you crank the engine.

So is it getting 12V or ground out of the starter during crank? What does the ballast resistor relay trigger want to see?

[Trstno1]

Alright, so I pulled the starter out and bench tested it. No go....it is seized and the bendix doesn't even kick out.... I'll be heading to the parts store tomorrow to get a eagle premier starter. Should I sell my core back to a vendor or turn it in at the local parts store?

[DMCMW Dave]

So is it getting 12V or ground out of the starter during crank? What does the ballast resistor relay trigger want to see?

It wants 12v when cranking.

[Rich]

Alright, so I pulled the starter out and bench tested it. No go....it is seized and the bendix doesn't even kick out.... I'll be heading to the parts store tomorrow to get a eagle premier starter.

So when you last tried it in the car it was clicking and trying to engage and then after removal you are getting no action at all from it during bench test?

Then double-check the bench test method (correct voltage and connections both +/-). If you can figure out whether the solenoid contacts are toast then you are looking at just replacing the solenoid.

The original problem description sounded like "bad solenoid" or "low voltage".

I don't know anybody who wants the core if you buy a Premier starter. If you buy a rebuilt starter from Hervey you'll get credit for your core.

[Trstno1]

So when you last tried it in the car it was clicking and trying to engage and then after removal you are getting no action at all from it during bench test?

Then double-check the bench test method (correct voltage and connections both +/-). If you can figure out whether the solenoid contacts are toast then you are looking at just replacing the solenoid.

The original problem description sounded like "bad solenoid" or "low voltage".

I don't know anybody who wants the core if you buy a Premier starter. If you buy a rebuilt starter from Hervey you'll get credit for your core.

What I thought was the click when it was installed was probably just the relay. When I bench test it it makes the same noise as when it was installed, kind of a grinding/binding/shorting sound. The bendix tries to kick out but cannot. The starter itself is just caked inside and outside with oil and gunk.

Does anyone know if you can exchange the starter with a starter that has 12 teeth on the bendix pinion gear vs. the 10 teeth that are on the stock starter. One of the cross reference numbers for the eagle premier is a 17175 Mitsubishi unit....but it has 12 teeth...... I'm guessing that would probably create an issue with the flywheel. I guess I'm just going to have to order a new starter online..... Does anyone have the part number for the eagle premier one that worked?

Does someone have a cross reference number list for the starter? The more I research the eagle premier starter, the more different numbers come up.....

I see Lester or Excel 17019, autozone 16550, 1689, O'Reilly 17175, 17046, Napa 44-6258, 44-6413.

Can anyone vouch for any of these numbers?

[Rich]

Thread about Autozone starter:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?9208

[Trstno1]

Thread about Autozone starter:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?9208

Thanks for the tip! I ordered a premier starter. Should be here by Monday and I'll report back.

[Trstno1]

Alright, so my premier starter finally came in. I was super surprised at how much smaller and lighter it was. I immediately installed it, jumped in the drivers seat, turned the key..........and it started!!!!! I'm living the dream again!! :nana1:

Thank you to everyone that chimed in with your troubleshooting skills. I think when I degreased the engine, somehow water got into the starter and started to gel all of the muck that was already inside it, thus seizing it. I think I'm going to rebuild my Rhone and keep it as a spare. :thumbup2: