Oil Pan Gasket Leak?

[5875]

New proud owner of 5875!

After purchase yesterday I drove the D home which was about 300 miles (500 km) from my house. After waking up this morning and taking a look in the garage, I noticed that there was oil dripping onto the garage floor. It looks like it may be coming from the oil pan gasket since all the bolts around the pan are dripping. See attached photos. The PO never had an issue with dripping, so something definately happened along the way. I took it easy going 55 mph (100 km/hr) at most and taking frequent stops to give the engine a break. The PO used the car, so the trip shouldn't have been a shock to the sytem (or so I hope!). Anyway, any thoughts would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Eric.

308613086230863

[David T]

Rare for the pan gasket to leak. More likely the sender unit for the low oil pressure light on the left/rear side of the motor. It runs down, hits the rail and goes all around making it look like a pan gasket leak. It can be resealed or replaced.

[novadmc]

I had a similar issues after I drove 4055 home. Check torque/tightness of all the oil pan bolts (That are accessible), clean the whole area with brake clean (or cleaner of your choice). Dry everything up and wipe it all down and go for a ride.
Doing this "solved" it for me.

I still saw a tiny bit (wet but didn't drip) near the drain bolt. But I figure it just needs a new crush ring when I do an oil change.

[Flicky]

I think the stock gasket has metal o-ring things that can get over squished if someone was all aggressive with it trying to stop a leak. If the clean up and re-tightening doesn't solve it, you might try a new silicone gasket from DPI for $23: http://www.deloreanindustries.com/12-oil-pan-gasket/

[DMCMW Dave]

If it leaks for a while and stops after you park it, it is not the gasket. If the pan gasket leaks it will leak even with the car parked for a long time as the oil level is above the gasket. The OEM gasket does not have rings, you are thinking of the auto trans pan. The OEM gasket is asbestos and rarely leaks.

[5875]

Thanks all for the pointers. I'll try a few things out as suggested and see if the oil is still leaking after having it sit a while.

[Delorean Industries]

Asbestos sucks.....

Items known on the car to contain asbestos (from the factory)

Under body heat shield
muffler heat shield
starter heat shield
converter heat shield
oil pan gasket
exhaust manifold gaskets (some styles and verified through Renault)

Questionable items:
brake pads (most likely for that day and age)
parking brake pads
valve cover gaskets (the oem ones come apart like the oil pans....)

[DMCMW Dave]

Engine oil leakers in order of appearance:

Oil pressure switch (for the light)
Drain Plug copper ring
Rear Main seal/paper gasket
Cam O-ring behind the pulley brackets
Oil pressure sender (for the gauge)
Cam cover gasket on the back of the engine (pretty rare, generally seeps, not a big running leak)

and way down....
Valve Cover (installer error, the originals are amazingly tight)
Oil pan gasket, generally only if someone has changed it before.

[Jonathan]

Congrats again on the car, Eric. Glad you had a memorable drive home with it.

Is the oil drip pattern on your garage floor all from the car sitting in that same exact spot? Or had you moved it in and out a couple times and then maybe the car is a bit to the left or right from where it was the previous time?

As others said, and Dave's list of leakers in order of appearance, could likely be the oil pressure sender (light) on the driver's side. Mine has leaked at times and can leak straight down to a particular drip spot on the floor if you monitor it. Can also depend on how much, if any, of the heatshields are left or in the way when it drips. I'd have to look at it again closer, because there is not much left of my catalytic converter heatshield and you don't have one at all I think with the exhaust system upgrade on your car.

Depending on the age and type of the engine oil, you can also notice a difference between it and the gear oil that will be in the rear differential. The leaks I have seen from those tend to drip down from the rear axles a little left or right of dead centre (depending on which side might be leaking) and then it may also leak right off the centreline seam of the housing and straight down. Your pattern looks a bit random to say for certain.

My engine oil gets changed more frequently than the gear oil and when I see the oil pressure light sender leak down, the oil looks "better" (lighter colour, thinner perhaps). That's not really scientific, but they do look different when dripped on the floor. The fluids will smell different from one another too believe it or not. Not sure about taste, lol, someone else can tell you about that!

If you are going to do an oil change and do the seal again on that oil pressure sender (light), you might also choose to replace the gauge sender on the passenger side with the new replacements one that are better calibrated. This helps with the pegged oil pressure needle you mentioned. Neither sender is terribly expensive, and the light one on the driver's side could be swapped out completely (not just the seal) as some have found it can leak internally and not just around the threads. I think it is $17 or so.

I doubt it is your pan seal myself too. Might be the drain plug though as those copper crush washer seals don't work great when reused a couple times (new ones are about $0.35 separate or included with a new oil filter).

As others said, clean, clean, clean underneath and then look where the leaks start. And they drip down so keep that in mind as it will make it trickier to determine the lower the wet spot is.

[5875]

Thanks Jonathan, I'll clean up the underside this weekend and see where the leak is originating from. Those spots on the floor are from it being stationary since I drove it home. It hasn't moved since. As you say, it may be a good idea to swap those parts out anyway consideing the cost. I'm assuming a quick phone call to either DMCMW or DMCH and they'd have those parts in stock? In your experience how long does typcial shipping take from those locations to Canada? Just wondering if I have time before I park this for the winter at the end of October. Thanks for your help, Eric.

[Jonathan]

Here is what I do for parts and you may choose to do the same if you like. It is only my opinion from experience.

I keep a running spreadsheet of things I need for the car. Well actually, the entire spreadsheet is a complete history of the car in every way including logbook, fuel, parts inventory, expenses, maintenance log, etc., but one of those sheets is always "future parts order." I update it as I realize I need something.

Once I get an idea that I need something on the car, I then get on the DeLorean main webstore page. www.delorean.com is Houston's page, but all the franchises use the same information. I try to research on my own to the best of my abilities what I am going to need and then put in my list things like quantity, part number, parts manual section number, price each, part name, description of part if vague or comments as to why I need it and for what, and then cost of price each times quantity.

Once I have a list I think I want to get, I email it to Dave and Julee at Midwest. Then I phone them.

The first glance through my list is usually/probably fairly easy as it would confirm prices and availability. Many of the regular things they have onsite and occasionally the odd stuff would come from the main inventory in Houston (which they do internal shipments regularly so this isn't a delay for the most part). This is also the time where I would get confirmation from Dave or Julee on some technical question I wasn't sure on about what parts are needed to fix a certain problem or a fastener that I might need (or not need) to do so.

Once we have that info and the parts are confirmed in stock, I give them details on a credit card for payment and it gets sent out quite quickly after that. It's not uncommon to get even a large order in two days or even late the next day depending on timing. If you really just needed a last minute hose or filter or whatever, it would be there for you the next day without a terrible hassle.

The key here is communication. That's why I get car things from Dave and Julee. It's not that all others can't help in much the same way, I just have been happy with their service over the last seven years and don't need to change it just for the sake of a slightly lower price on one item or two somewhere else. You can definitely use the website to order directly from with the "add to basket" part, however this goes into the queue for Houston to handle. This is perfectly fine mind you, I just choose to have my hand held a little bit when I order things.

I put a large value on speaking to someone on the phone to place an order and to know Dave will not hesitate to tell you that you DON'T need a certain part if you don't need it, that's really important to me. The guy is a busy man, and I can be a pain taking up too much of his time just like anyone else, but if you aren't sure how to fix something, he's very generous with his time to get you on the right track whether it's fixing an idle problem, A/C problem, or cosmetic problem.

I have some pharmacists in my family and I think it is somewhat similar in that many other places in town can fill your prescription and tell you to take it with food or whatever, but many of us keep going back to the same place because you feel good about going there. Not sure if everyone will understand that, but that's about how I see it.

For shipping, I try to get a few things together because it's not the cheapest thing in the world to order parts and send them over the border. It's also not that expensive either if you realize what is going on. The shipments are normally done by UPS (or Fed-Ex type thing) and the cost is a combination of weight and size. And shipping something light in a big box is no deal either as the courier companies use dimensional weight believe it or not. I have talked with Julee many times trying to understand what these silly shipping rules are and we've gotten it really close to exact. It is still at the mercy of Joe Customs, but the last order of around $500 or so I estimated the to my door cost within about $0.85.

Generally speaking, whatever the US cost is, add it all up and then convert it to Canadian. That's probably around 10% more right now. Take that amount and determine what 13% is as that is our sales tax in Ontario. UPS does about a $10 flat rate for the paperwork and $4.50 for extra line items on your order. This line item piece hasn't been nailed down extremely well even with all our efforts.

You would pay for your parts order directly to Midwest and it will include the UPS charge on it too. If you bought a decent amount of things in a medium box for $500, the UPS charge might be $40. Your credit card would see $540 USD and then your bank decides how much that is in Canadian. Once they deliver it to your door, it would be the sales tax amount (13% on the Canadian equivalent total) plus $10 plus the $4.50 line item approximately. So about $86 at your door to the guy standing there. That $540 USD is about $594 CDN so all said and done about $680 Canadian to your door including taxes and duties for $500 USD of parts as they show on the website.

Like I said, not cheap but not terrible either. Some will mention shipping it via the postal service and putting it as a gift with no value or whatever. Here's the thing, it's dishonest. Not to mention if it is damaged or lost, guess what your claim amount is for? Zero, because that's what you said it was worth. Paying sales tax on it is the same as you would anything else at home whether it's lunch or a pair of jeans. There are some shady ways around these things at times, but they are generally cheating or being dishonest in one way or the other. That's ok for some but not for others. It's also another reason I work with Dave and Julee because I don't ever worry about something going on that's dishonest with them. And that's hard to put a value on. :)

[micmak]

Hi Eric,
Congrats on the car. It is a really nice one. I remember examining that car and admiring it when the Previous Owner bought it a few years ago. If I had been in the market for a DeLorean a few weeks ago when he said he was selling it, I would have jumped on it! It’s a beauty for sure.
As regards your oil leak, I betcha it’s the oil sender or the oil switch.
If it is the switch (the one that controls the oil light), go to Napa or Auto Zone, or maybe even Canadian Tire and ask for an oil switch for a 1977 Corvette. It’s identical and will save you the effort and shipping costs of getting it from one of the vendors, and you will have it right away. That’s what I did a few years ago with mine and it has been perfect ever since.
If it’s the oil sender which controls the gauge, you could try a Volvo dealer if there is one near you. Tell them you want the sender for a Volvo B28 engine. That is what the DeLorean has. However DO NOT tell them it’s for a DeLorean!!! The often get very snippy if you mention DeLorean. Just tell them it’s a Volvo 740 which has a B28 engine. Again the advantage of this is that you will have the part right then and there, as opposed to shipping from the States.

Good luck with the car. I expect you will have a largely trouble-free time with that particular car. It’s such a nice car.

…….Mike…….

[5875]

Thanks for all the pointers Jonathan and Mike. The DeLorean passed safety, so I can stop worrying about dealing with the DMV now! The mechanic (owner) who did the inspection seemed very knowledgable about DeLoreans and is really keen to take it on for ongoing service. The shop has been in business since 1970 specializing in classic and exotic cars. He's identified the problem as two leaking gaskets. The oil sender was okay. He mentioned the axel gaskets and crank gasket. It's leaking from there, then dripping onto the belts and getting thrown everywhere then dripping down looking like it's coming from the oil pan. Now I just have to figure what part numbers those are and order. I'll be visiting a fellow DeLorean owner before ordering the parts for a second opinion.

Turns out my father is heading to the states soon for a week, so I'll send the parts to Ogdensburg and he can claim it above board against his $700 limit. It's nice when that stuff works out!

[5875]

So how common is it to have the rear main seal go twice in a short period?

Long story short, after cleaning the whole engine with brake clean and dropping dye in the oil it looks like the front crank seal is indeed leaking, but so is the rear main seal. Initially we thought it was gear oil coming from the axle seals, but with the dye it shows it's coming from the rear of the engine and it was just dripping onto the axle seals. Thing is the the rear seal was replaced just two years ago. Is it common for it to leak again? We checked the oil dipstick, oil sender, oil light sensor and oil pan gasket/plug and all are bone dry.

I've yet to check the crossover part list, but will see if a Volvo part # exists (wishful thinking...).

[David T]

So how common is it to have the rear main seal go twice in a short period?

Long story short, after cleaning the whole engine with brake clean and dropping dye in the oil it looks like the front crank seal is indeed leaking, but so is the rear main seal. Initially we thought it was gear oil coming from the axle seals, but with the dye it shows it's coming from the rear of the engine and it was just dripping onto the axle seals. Thing is the the rear seal was replaced just two years ago. Is it common for it to leak again? We checked the oil dipstick, oil sender, oil light sensor and oil pan gasket/plug and all are bone dry.

I've yet to check the crossover part list, but will see if a Volvo part # exists (wishful thinking...).

No it is not common. A few things:
the seals were not replaced correctly, wrong or damaged parts, wrong motor oil or overfilled. Also check the breather on the cold start tube. If the crankcase is not being ventilated properly it could build up pressure forcing oil out the seals.

[5875]

That's what I thought as well. The rear seal was done by a reputable shop with quality workmanship (DPI), so perhaps it's a faulty seal. Proper oil and oil levels were done for the past two years. Where would one find the cold start tube?

[5875]

No it is not common. A few things:
the seals were not replaced correctly, wrong or damaged parts, wrong motor oil or overfilled. Also check the breather on the cold start tube. If the crankcase is not being ventilated properly it could build up pressure forcing oil out the seals.

Is this the cold start valve you are reffering to?
http://store.delorean.com/p-6624-cold-start-valve.aspx

Thanks for the help...sorry if these are stupid questions - just starting to learn about the car.

[5875]

Update...

Ended up swapping out the oil mesh cap on the cold start tube with a fellow DeLorean owner in town (his D is in amazing shape) -unfortunately still the same result with a leaky rear main seal after a 2 hour ride. Tonight I'm going to check the rubber hose that connects the oil cap to the cold start tube to make sure nothing's stuck or obstructing the flow. Maybe there's a mesh peice in there at the hose/tube connection that's clogged. Frustrating to say the least, but at least I'm crossing stuff off the list. I'll be doing an oil change sometime this week and making sure the proper 20W50 oil gets in there and making sure the proper oil level is maintained. Other than that, I'm fresh out of ideas and will probably have to live with this rear main seal leak for the forseable future.:banghead:

I'm still kind of surprised this was replaced a year ago and it's already leaking - 1,500 miles tops were placed on it. From speaking with others, it sounds like rear main seals on these things are a pain in general and replacing them is a science with lining up the seal/tranny correctly on install.

[DMCMW Dave]

I'm still kind of surprised this was replaced a year ago and it's already leaking - 1,500 miles tops were placed on it. From speaking with others, it sounds like rear main seals on these things are a pain in general and replacing them is a science with lining up the seal/tranny correctly on install.

It doesn't have anything to do with the trans, but its easy to accidently get the seal installed not 100% aligned (i.e. cocked slightly). There is also a paper gasket behind the seal and a metal-to-metal seal at the base of the retainer. Lots to go wrong.