Stage 2

[drdelorean]

Alright, so I've been googling for a while and I can't find any "real" specs on the stage 2 upgrade, and by real specs I mean tests, data, numbers etc.

What I have found out so far, is that some claim the stage 2 gets:

Anywhere from 130HP, 170HP to 197HP to 150HP at the wheels.(the numbers varies a lot)
Also picked up that the 198 is BHP and not HP?
The gas milage seems to vary with numbers from 20mpg all the way to 32mpg
And that it gets 192 pounds of torque.
Would also like to get more number, and test runs, like 0-60 etc

So I guess what I'm asking is: are there any date from tests drives? Scientific tests? That can give a more straight answer to what you are actually getting?

I appologize in advance if this has been covered, as I didn't find anything when I searched.

Also is the lowered suspension included in the price when you get the stage 2 upgrade? I think I read that somewhere.

Thanks

[Nicholas R]

Truthfully, I would love to see someone post a dyno sheet from a Stage II but off hand I haven't seen one. For reference, this is a thread that Stephen Wynne started at the end of 2011 talking about all of the kits.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2530-Stage-I-II-and-III-details-and-pricing

The only measured numbers given though were for the Stage III kit which measured 154hp/180ftlbs at the wheels. Also, I certainly have the utmost respect for Stephen, however; I've never heard of a generally accepted rule of 32% loss through the drive train. I cant imagine that 1/3 of the power is being lost. I have always heard drivetrain losses to be estimated closer to 15% (+/-), and with a transaxle setup, its usually even less.

Just food for thought.


Stage I (parts only) - New stainless muffler, catalytic converters, headers, heatshield, DMC etched exhaust tips and brackets. Also includes fresh air intake, lambda sensor, ignition coil and K&N air filter. Hardware kit includes nuts, bolts, washers, exhaust mounts, exhaust manifold gaskets, flange gaskets and studs. $2149.00

Stage I (installed) All of the above, installed for $2695.00

------------------------------

Stage II (installed only) - All the items listed in Stage I, plus: Bosch silver tip spark plugs, sparkplug wire set, distributor cap and rotor, ported and polished heads (combustion chamber matched), camshafts with Stage II spec profile, 6 new injectors with seals. Parts replaced as part of the install process also include rocker cover gaskets, cylinder head gaskets, timing cover gasket and seals, intake o-rings and manifold gaskets, water pump bypass and heater hoses.

Installed price $5750

------------------------------

Many people got the chance to drive the Stage III at the track during the DMC Open House this past October, and it's now available for installation.

Performance numbers are an estimated 233hp and 230ft lbs of torque at the flywheel (based on the generally accepted 32% transmission/tire loss for horsepower and 20% loss of torque). Over three runs; one on a 90degree day and two the following morning with the temp in the mid-upper 70s, the max horsepower at the wheels was 157.53 and torque of 184.48. The low numbers on the 90 degree day were 153.97hp and 179.64 ft. lb.

Stage III (installed) - All the items listed for Stage I and Stage II, plus: Sprintex supercharger, crankshaft pulley, belt and tensioner, ECU and wiring harness, fuel enrichment add-on and all necessary ducting and plumbing.

Stage I to III - Includes Stage II and Stage III components - $11,495 (installed)

Stage II to III - Includes Stage III components - $8,695.00 (installed)

Pre-2011 Stage I and II installations may require redesigned muffler at additional cost ($279).

Any questions, please contact me directly at [email protected] - thanks!

Regards,

Stephen Wynne

------------------------------------
DeLorean Motor Company
15023 Eddie Drive
Humble, Texas 77396 USA
Tel: 800/872-3621 (USA only)
Tel2: +1-281/441-2537
Fax: +1-281/441-2813
http://www.delorean.com
http://www.facebook.com/deloreanmotorcompany
------------------------------------

[Mark D]

I'd also like to know the real numbers for stage 2 and any of the other performance options out there. I don't know how anyone makes these $6,000+ decisions without a dyno sheet showing what they're going to get.

The baseline/stock configuration seems to be around 90whp with a 5spd trans based on these dyno runs:
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?5491-DPI-Engine-Performance-Stats-DYNO-Results-by-the-numbers

The numbers for the DPI options never materialized in that thread either, but I saw on facebook Josh was planning on releasing more info soon.

Some honest to goodness apples to apples comparisons of the existing options sure would be nice... Right now I'm mainly just considering a performance exhaust and those numbers aren't out there either. If someone can show me that my HP per dollar goes up if I start getting into stage 2 / spec 2 packages then I'll be much more likely to go that route.

[opethmike]

I did a self-install of DPI's heads/cams/exhaust package, along with an EFI conversion. The heads/cams/exhaust I spent ~$3,000 on, and the install took a weekend.

The car is definitely still not fast, but it doesn't feel like a dead dog anymore. The mid-range is where the biggest improvement in acceleration is. Between the exhaust and the cams, the sound is phenomenal.

I've very loosely clocked 0-60, with a passenger using a stop watch, and I hit 7 seconds, using a fairly hefty clutch drop take-off.

If you buy and install the parts yourself, it is JUST on the side of worth it. However, I would never, ever spend six grand for the upgrade!

And holy shit, my eyes twitch when I look at the cost of stage III for what you get. I honestly have to wonder if they have sold more than one or two of those things. What a rip-off!!!

[David T]

Alright, so I've been googling for a while and I can't find any "real" specs on the stage 2 upgrade, and by real specs I mean tests, data, numbers etc.

What I have found out so far, is that some claim the stage 2 gets:

Anywhere from 130HP, 170HP to 197HP to 150HP at the wheels.(the numbers varies a lot)
Also picked up that the 198 is BHP and not HP?
The gas milage seems to vary with numbers from 20mpg all the way to 32mpg
And that it gets 192 pounds of torque.
Would also like to get more number, and test runs, like 0-60 etc

So I guess what I'm asking is: are there any date from tests drives? Scientific tests? That can give a more straight answer to what you are actually getting?

I appologize in advance if this has been covered, as I didn't find anything when I searched.


Also is the lowered suspension included in the price when you get the stage 2 upgrade? I think I read that somewhere.

Thanks

The numbers don't tell the whole story. A Stage II is definitely an improvement but it is not everything you might expect. IMHO for what it does and what it costs, the Island Turbo set-up is the better way to go (if you can get one!). The only way a Stage II makes sense is if you destroyed your motor and need a crate motor and can afford the extra money for the upgrade to Stage II. Lowering is NOT included nor is the 170 MPH speedo. BTW, if the car is a wreck, the S/S is all banged up, the frame is rusty, the doors don't work well, the A/C is dead, a Stage II is not going to fix any of that. The only good candidates for a Stage II would be cars in good condition.

[dmruschell]

Considering the DPI cams and exhaust will cost less than $3k, and a Stage 2 costs twice, if not three times, as much, I'd go with the DPI setup. Incidentally, the SPEC dyno results are of my fiancé's DeLorean (3196). I opted to do the cans and exhaust on 5786 when I had the frame replaced. It really makes a difference. 5786 was a stock automatic, so I did get to compare stock vs SPEC before I had 5786 gone through.

You get more power, don't have to mess with the heads or anything else, which keeps the price down, and you don't have to have one of a handful of shops in the world install it. The SPEC setup wins.

[Nicholas R]

Does anybody have the information on what the stock cam specs are and what the specs are for the DPI set up and the DMCH set up? Lift/duration/lobe separation/etc?

I guess when it comes to DeLoreans there really aren't many options, but I'd still want to see the numbers before buying them.

[Mark D]

Yeah all I seem to hear anywhere is 'a nice upgrade from stock' or 'feels faster'. All I care about are the numbers. If I paid 6k to have a stage II installed the next day I'd have the thing on a dyno to see what my money got me. Or as I said before I dont' think I could plunk down that kind of cash without knowing what I'd be getting first.

Same goes for the DPI SPEC 1 exhaust + cams. This is the option I'm considering most but have almost zero information on what my $2700 would get me, or how it compares to the exhaust only option at $2200. Is the 500 bucks extra for the cams worth it?

If I get 15hp from the exhaust and 25hp from exhaust + cams that's a relatively large HP increase for only 500 bucks more. Or if the cams only gain me an extra 2hp I might just go with the exhaust only. Again....how the hell does anyone buy this stuff without knowing the cost/benefit ratio?

[Kozmatic]

Again....how the hell does anyone buy this stuff without knowing the cost/benefit ratio?

Same question I asked myself while buying a Delorean off the internet...

[Lenny]

I volunteer my car for the Dyno Test. I'd love to see the results. mine was a Stage II factory rebuild in 2007.

[drdelorean]

Truthfully, I would love to see someone post a dyno sheet from a Stage II but off hand I haven't seen one. For reference, this is a thread that Stephen Wynne started at the end of 2011 talking about all of the kits.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2530-Stage-I-II-and-III-details-and-pricing

The only measured numbers given though were for the Stage III kit which measured 154hp/180ftlbs at the wheels. Also, I certainly have the utmost respect for Stephen, however; I've never heard of a generally accepted rule of 32% loss through the drive train. I cant imagine that 1/3 of the power is being lost. I have always heard drivetrain losses to be estimated closer to 15% (+/-), and with a transaxle setup, its usually even less.

Just food for thought.




Interesting read!

Thanks for all the input guys!

And yes I agree, I can't understand how DMCH and all the others offer goths the stage 1,2 and 3 with no data, info, dyno sheet, road tests..
Like Mark D says, all I keep reading is how people felt the car sounded better, went a bit faster etc. Would be very interesting to see some sort of actual data off what we are actually getting..

[Grover]

Myself and another member from the DMA have some engine modifications. We are going to the track tonight and I will post some video and results.

My car has:
Port and Polished Heads with a 1mm deck
UK High Compression Pistons
DPI Camshafts
UK Exhaust

His car has:
DPI Camshafts
DPI Exhaust

Both are 5-speeds. I will post the times and other information sometime this weekend.

[Kozmatic]

Myself and another member from the DMA have some engine modifications. We are going to the track tonight and I will post some video and results.

My car has:
Port and Polished Heads with a 1mm deck
UK High Compression Pistons
DPI Camshafts
UK Exhaust

His car has:
DPI Camshafts
DPI Exhaust

Both are 5-speeds. I will post the times and other information sometime this weekend.

:popcorn:

[Lenny]

Nick,
do you have any contacts with the shop that did your DeLorean for "Car Fix"? I wonder what they would charge me?

Did they give you your printout?

[Grover]

Nick,
do you have any contacts with the shop that did your DeLorean for "Car Fix"? I wonder what they would charge me?

Did they give you your printout?

Lenny, sorry, but no LS1 here!

This is Steve and I have just about as highly modified as a N/A with stock fuel system can go.

[sdg3205]

Lenny, sorry, but no LS1 here!

This is Steve and I have just about as highly modified as a N/A with stock fuel system can go.

Steve,

I can't find your pistons on the DMC UK site. Am i looking in the right place?

[opethmike]

Try Ed Uding at DMC Europe.

[drdelorean]

Myself and another member from the DMA have some engine modifications. We are going to the track tonight and I will post some video and results.

My car has:
Port and Polished Heads with a 1mm deck
UK High Compression Pistons
DPI Camshafts
UK Exhaust

His car has:
DPI Camshafts
DPI Exhaust

Both are 5-speeds. I will post the times and other information sometime this weekend.


Excellent, can't wait see your results!

[Grover]

Steve,

I can't find your pistons on the DMC UK site. Am i looking in the right place?

Should have been more specific and also say Europe and not UK. Sorry about that. Mike is correct, they are from Ed Uding.

http://www.delorean.eu/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=20_139&products_id=35018&osCsid=gq902i4leeb8qbgk55bmonlj66

[Nicholas R]

Nick,
do you have any contacts with the shop that did your DeLorean for "Car Fix"? I wonder what they would charge me?

Did they give you your printout?


Lenny, sorry, but no LS1 here!

This is Steve and I have just about as highly modified as a N/A with stock fuel system can go.

I think Lenny was talking me since my name is Nick and I have an LS1, lol. :biggrin:

Yes I have contact with the shop. I'll be continuing to use them in the future since they've got my tokens for HP Tuners on file. I can give you their info if you would like. I have the business card of the main guy at work. The shop was Vortex Motorsports. They're probably pretty close to you in Tampa. They were awesome to work with. http://www.vortexmotorsport.com/

Truthfully I don't know what the price was though. A couple pulls on the dyno would probably have been pretty cheap since you're not having them do tuning work.

Let me know if you decide to and I'll see if I can make it over to Tampa to join you! :thumbup:

EDIT: By the way, Steve are you guys hitting a Dyno? I'm interested to see what the maximum power a naturally aspirated DeLorean can make.

[Grover]

Nick, yeah, just looked back at the thread. I thought he was talking to me since it was right after I posted, lol. Internet context...what can you do....

As for the dyno, I definitely need to go again. I went once, but turned out my throttle spool was only turning 3/4 of the way and I was running lean. With that in mind I hit about 135hp at the wheels. After fixing everything the car definitely has more pep and I really want to get it back on one.

We ended up not being able to do the Drag Race, right when we were leaving the connector to the fuel pump on his car wasn't working right. We spent the whole night patching it up.


I think Lenny was talking me since my name is Nick and I have an LS1, lol. :biggrin:

Yes I have contact with the shop. I'll be continuing to use them in the future since they've got my tokens for HP Tuners on file. I can give you their info if you would like. I have the business card of the main guy at work. The shop was Vortex Motorsports. They're probably pretty close to you in Tampa. They were awesome to work with. http://www.vortexmotorsport.com/

Truthfully I don't know what the price was though. A couple pulls on the dyno would probably have been pretty cheap since you're not having them do tuning work.

Let me know if you decide to and I'll see if I can make it over to Tampa to join you! :thumbup:

EDIT: By the way, Steve are you guys hitting a Dyno? I'm interested to see what the maximum power a naturally aspirated DeLorean can make.

[Lenny]

I think Lenny was talking me since my name is Nick and I have an LS1, lol. :biggrin:

Yes I have contact with the shop. I'll be continuing to use them in the future since they've got my tokens for HP Tuners on file. I can give you their info if you would like. I have the business card of the main guy at work. The shop was Vortex Motorsports. They're probably pretty close to you in Tampa. They were awesome to work with. http://www.vortexmotorsport.com/

Truthfully I don't know what the price was though. A couple pulls on the dyno would probably have been pretty cheap since you're not having them do tuning work.

Let me know if you decide to and I'll see if I can make it over to Tampa to join you! :thumbup:

EDIT: By the way, Steve are you guys hitting a Dyno? I'm interested to see what the maximum power a naturally aspirated DeLorean can make.

When you get the name and number let me know and I'll give them a call.

[dmruschell]

Nick, yeah, just looked back at the thread. I thought he was talking to me since it was right after I posted, lol. Internet context...what can you do....

As for the dyno, I definitely need to go again. I went once, but turned out my throttle spool was only turning 3/4 of the way and I was running lean. With that in mind I hit about 135hp at the wheels. After fixing everything the car definitely has more pep and I really want to get it back on one.

We ended up not being able to do the Drag Race, right when we were leaving the connector to the fuel pump on his car wasn't working right. We spent the whole night patching it up.

I was so sad that we couldn't go drag racing :(

The car drove 4 hours from MD to NJ and died in his driveway. The connector read 12+V from the power to the ground in the connector, but it wouldn't run the pump. Hopefully, we can make the racing happen soon, as we've been talking about doing this for a while.

I''d also be ok with going to a dyno to compare our setups, too.

[jamesrguk]

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/james.grant793/DYNO_JUNE_2009.pdf

This shows a number of deloreans run on the same dyno on the same day with any modifications listed, no stage I, II or III as such but still noticeable gains just through changes to exhausts and fuel in etc...

This was back in 2009, we've done it again since with some much more interesting setups but don't seem to be able to find that data.

My car has the UK exhaust, Volvo fueling but no other work and that ran 147bhp at the flywheel, so if stock was 130 at the flywheel all things being equal the exhaust supposedly gained me 17bhp.

I think actually it's a bit more, but you really need to compare wheel hp and forget the flywheel calculations. That way you can pitch autos against manuals.

J

[Nicholas R]

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/james.grant793/DYNO_JUNE_2009.pdf

This shows a number of deloreans run on the same dyno on the same day with any modifications listed, no stage I, II or III as such but still noticeable gains just through changes to exhausts and fuel in etc...

This was back in 2009, we've done it again since with some much more interesting setups but don't seem to be able to find that data.

My car has the UK exhaust, Volvo fueling but no other work and that ran 147bhp at the flywheel, so if stock was 130 at the flywheel all things being equal the exhaust supposedly gained me 17bhp.

I think actually it's a bit more, but you really need to compare wheel hp and forget the flywheel calculations. That way you can pitch autos against manuals.

J

Nice! How did you measure the power at the flywheel? Did you use an engine dyno?:wrenchin:

Also what's "rolling road"?

[David T]

Nice! How did you measure the power at the flywheel? Did you use an engine dyno?:wrenchin:

Also what's "rolling road"?

I did a little digging through my files and came up with this data that was offered by Island Turbo "back in the day"

Horsepower data
OEM Specification
Brake Horsepower @ 5500 RPM 130 HP SAE net

Turbocharged
Brake Horsepower @ 5500 RPM 210 HP SAE net

Looks like the claim is for an additional 80 HP. That calculates out to $40 per HP! Not cheap but less than a Stage II and probably more usable HP.
No mention about how it was measured
They also mentioned 0-60 in 6.3 seconds and a top speed of 140 MPH. List price of the kit (parts only) was $3200 in 1980's dollars. Since it is not easy to obtain an Island Turbo kit anymore this is only for comparison but Ken K may have a lead on a kit for anyone who is interested.

[Mike F]

Nice! How did you measure the power at the flywheel? Did you use an engine dyno?:wrenchin:

Also what's "rolling road"?

A rolling road is another term for a chassis dyno. I guess it's the more common name for it in the UK. If you watch Top Gear or Wheeler Dealers they usually call it that.

[Nicholas R]

A rolling road is another term for a chassis dyno. I guess it's the more common name for it in the UK. If you watch Top Gear or Wheeler Dealers they usually call it that.

Got ya, that makes perfect sense. Thanks!

[drdelorean]

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/james.grant793/DYNO_JUNE_2009.pdf

This shows a number of deloreans run on the same dyno on the same day with any modifications listed, no stage I, II or III as such but still noticeable gains just through changes to exhausts and fuel in etc...

This was back in 2009, we've done it again since with some much more interesting setups but don't seem to be able to find that data.

My car has the UK exhaust, Volvo fueling but no other work and that ran 147bhp at the flywheel, so if stock was 130 at the flywheel all things being equal the exhaust supposedly gained me 17bhp.

I think actually it's a bit more, but you really need to compare wheel hp and forget the flywheel calculations. That way you can pitch autos against manuals.

J


Thanks for posting, this was a very interesting read!

[jamesrguk]

Thanks for posting, this was a very interesting read!

The top one on that list had the Volvo b28e engine with a cat bypass pipe.

I am just about to swap out my dmc engine, which has a damaged block, and replace it with a b28e engine. 'e' designating European specification, it was not fitted with lamda system and has slightly higher compression, but is otherwise identical to the DeLorean engine.

B28f fitted to cars at the factory 'f' designating federal, i.e. Compliment with US emissions standards of the time.

I will also be fitting the UK ss exhaust which I will transfer from my old engine.

It will be interesting to see what power that puts out, the nice thing is it will look stock to most folks, and other than replacing the sandwich plate and the sump with the ones of the dmc engine it will/should drop right in.

I'm not after much power, I'm only really swapping because of issues with my existing engine, but will be interesting all the same.

J

[DeloreanResto]

i have an Island TT Kit complete..... If anybody is looking for one. was going to keep it for myself... but if the price is right. :woot::woot:

[David T]

i have an Island TT Kit complete..... If anybody is looking for one. was going to keep it for myself... but if the price is right. :woot::woot:

And what is the "right" price? Do the turbos need to be rebuilt? Is the distributor included? All the hoses and brackets, pressure switches, paperwork, etc. Some pictures?

[Nicholas R]

When you get the name and number let me know and I'll give them a call.

Here's the business card I have.

[jerzybondov]

The top one on that list had the Volvo b28e engine with a cat bypass pipe.

I am just about to swap out my dmc engine, which has a damaged block, and replace it with a b28e engine. 'e' designating European specification, it was not fitted with lamda system and has slightly higher compression, but is otherwise identical to the DeLorean engine.

B28f fitted to cars at the factory 'f' designating federal, i.e. Compliment with US emissions standards of the time.

I will also be fitting the UK ss exhaust which I will transfer from my old engine.

It will be interesting to see what power that puts out, the nice thing is it will look stock to most folks, and other than replacing the sandwich plate and the sump with the ones of the dmc engine it will/should drop right in.

I'm not after much power, I'm only really swapping because of issues with my existing engine, but will be interesting all the same.

J

You'll have exactly the same setup as me then - albeit with auto transmission rather than 5 speed. Would be good to get another dyno-tec at one of the meets sometime!

[RammJaeger]

In SEDOC here in Georgia we have a guy with a Stage II setup, and a guy with the 80's turbo setup. And I have a bone stock Delorean with 11,000 original miles. Maybe I can get the other two guys to go to a Dyno with me and we can get a good comparison? I'm down, if the other SEDOC guys are down. I'll even pay for the dyno runs. What do you say SEDOC guys?

[drdelorean]

In SEDOC here in Georgia we have a guy with a Stage II setup, and a guy with the 80's turbo setup. And I have a bone stock Delorean with 11,000 original miles. Maybe I can get the other two guys to go to a Dyno with me and we can get a good comparison? I'm down, if the other SEDOC guys are down. I'll even pay for the dyno runs. What do you say SEDOC guys?


Now that would be extremely interesting!!