Door lock operation.

[dblincoln3]

Just wondering if my door lock switches are operating properly. Both lock switches will lock both it's own door and the other door. The passenger door will also unlock itself and the driver door. However, the driver door lock switch will only unlock itself and not unlock the driver door. Is that they way it should operate? If not any ideas where to start trouble shooting the system. Thanks.

[Elvis]

no, it should not work that way.

first thing - get the schematics and a multimeter,
update the door lock ECU with the fuse and new relays,
if the 10A fuse burns you know that the solenoids are toasted
and need to be repaired (new wire inside).

well, the search should also be very helpful, it's a common problem.

[TTait]

It could also be a bad bell crank switch in either door - item 100852 or 100853.

[David T]

It could also be a bad bell crank switch in either door - item 100852 or 100853.

Sometimes all it takes is to clean the switch, it doesn't have to be replaced. You also must be sure everything is properly adjusted and both locks in both doors are in second locking position. Typically when there is a problem with the doors you must do the whole linkage adjustment procedure in both doors as per the Service Bulletin. If you are going to use the original locking module at least add a 10 amp fuse in the big red wire going to it.

[DMCMW Dave]

Keep in mind that the rocker you are activating on, for example, the driver door is manually locking that door with a metal linkage. The solenoid is along for the ride but can be completely dead and the door you are activating will lock manually.

You either have a bad bellcrank switch in the opposite door or a dead solenoid in the door that works manually.

So in your case it's either a bad switch in the driver door or a bad solenoid in the passenger door (Assuming that's what you meant to say, your description is ambiguous).

The solenoid can be re-wound internally, or replaced, or replaced with an actuator motor (you need to do both sides at the same time if you go the motor route).

Or worst case a wiring problem in the roof but that's thankfully very rare.

[Rich]

Just wondering if my door lock switches are operating properly. Both lock switches will lock both it's own door and the other door. The passenger door will also unlock itself and the driver door. However, the driver door lock switch will only unlock itself and not unlock the driver door. Is that they way it should operate?

You can probably gather this from the good replies already. As noted, no it should not operate that way.

Specifically it should go like this: Lock or unlock one door or the other and the opposite door's lock system should duplicate that actuation. Using either the door key or the inside lock rocker/lever.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Also if your doors are locked and the inertia switch gets hit (pull plunger up) the doors should unlock.

It's hard to test that operation since you should not lock the doors if one is open. I actually did get in the car, lock the doors and get down under the dash and pull the switch.

[dblincoln3]

Sorry for the confusion in my original post. The driver door will lock the passenger door, but not unlock the passenger door. The passenger door will lock and unlock the driver door. I checked continuity for all wires leading from the door lock module harness connector to both lock switch harness connectors as well as the solenoids harness connectors and they seem to be continuos. I also checked both the lock switches in their two positions and they seem to be okay. Is it possible for the passenger solenoid to be functioning in one direction, but not the other?

[Bitsyncmaster]

Is it possible for the passenger solenoid to be functioning in one direction, but not the other?

Yes that is possible. The solenoids have two coils. One for lock the other for unlock. But then a connection to that second coil could also be bad. If you have an ohm meter you can test that the coil is not open or shorted.

[dblincoln3]

Not sure what I did, but it is all working correctly now. I tried testing the solenoid with an ohm meter and I didn't detect a break or short. I plugged everything back together, tested the switches again and now it works. I wish I knew what I did to correct the problem, but I guess the important thing is it is working now.

[David T]

Yes that is possible. The solenoids have two coils. One for lock the other for unlock. But then a connection to that second coil could also be bad. If you have an ohm meter you can test that the coil is not open or shorted.

Actually there is only one solenoid coil in each door. The polarity is reversed to make the coil act one way or the other. You can only check for a short to ground or an open coil, you won't measure if some of the turns are shorted. Since you were messing around it is probably just a dirty contact in one of the wiper switches. Shorted coils will cause a reduction in the power of the solenoid and a big increase in the current.

[Elvis]

BS !

there's two coils !

wanna see pictures ?

[Elvis]

Sorry for the confusion in my original post. The driver door will lock the passenger door, but not unlock the passenger door. The passenger door will lock and unlock the driver door. I checked continuity for all wires leading from the door lock module harness connector to both lock switch harness connectors as well as the solenoids harness connectors and they seem to be continuos. I also checked both the lock switches in their two positions and they seem to be okay. Is it possible for the passenger solenoid to be functioning in one direction, but not the other?


Like thousand times repeated the relays tend to stick together and burn the coils.

you can NOT measure a burned coil with a regular multimeter !

when it's burned inside, it may or may not produce enough force to move the locks.

Known problem, this is why we always tell people to install a 10A fuse to exactly prevent
the coils from burning.


Another problem I saw was - oxydized connector in the roof box.
a good thing to look in there for rust, many cars have a rust problem up there.
very often - but not always - the lock or unlock coils in both doors are burned,
as they are connected in parallel.


by the way - it can be helpful to push the relays by hand to analyze the problem.
BUT not much more than a second - and close the doors before doing it !

[dblincoln3]

I just plan on replacing the solenoids with actuators now anyway, since the doors are already apart.

[Jonathan]

Question:


Not sure what I did

Answer:


I plugged everything back together

Might have just been that your electrical connections weren't good.

Our cars have a reputation for fixing themselves... which you would think is magic, but it's probably just the corroded terminal Gremlins that are actually fixing it for you.

[Elvis]

I just plan on replacing the solenoids with actuators now anyway, since the doors are already apart.

Why ?

if the solenoids aren't burnt (because of the bad relays and the owner who did not install a fuse) - there is absolutely
no reason to replace them.

[DMCMW Dave]

BS !

there's two coils !

wanna see pictures ?

Agreed. That's why you have to replace both at once if you are changing to actuator motors, because the motor-type do get reversed so an electrical change is needed.

The OEM solenoids each have a lock coil and an unlock coil, and they can burn out individually. The original coils have two wires, one is lock and one is unlock, the ground is the common point between the two coils.

Actuator motors have two wires and are not grounded (well -they are but for "lock" one wire is grounded, and for "unlock" the other wire is grounded, and the + side is reversed as well).

http://www.dmcnews.com/Techsection/stragand_lock_rewind/Rewinding.htm has some good photos of what is inside and you can see what a burned coil looks like vs a not burned coil.

[David T]

BS !

there's two coils !

wanna see pictures ?


I stand corrected, there is one "solenoid" but it has 2 coils internally. There are 3 connections to it, 2 wires and the ground.

[PJ Grady Inc.]

Not sure what I did, but it is all working correctly now. I tried testing the solenoid with an ohm meter and I didn't detect a break or short. I plugged everything back together, tested the switches again and now it works. I wish I knew what I did to correct the problem, but I guess the important thing is it is working now.
Locks that "fix" themselves are generally loose or dirty connection problems. I'm assuming you cleaned and checked all of the ground and voltage terminals involved so it sounds like a weak connection at one of the bellcrank point contacts...most likely the driver side. I recommending a slight "tweaking" of the contact arms to give them a little more tension agianst the points.

When upgrading locks I prefer rebuilt solenoids over actuators as they are more powerful and very reliable when properly rebuilt with upgraded bobbins and windings. Actuators are comparatively slow and weak in the applications I've seen and never operate with the authority of a good solenoiod IMHO.

Rob Grady

[ALEXAKOS]

Actuators are comparatively slow and weak in the applications I've seen and never operate with the authority of a good solenoiod IMHO.

Rob Grady


I'll second that opinion with Rob!
I have switched to actuators... The delorean door needs muscle to pull on those door locks.

Actuators are very weak. Plus if they loose their perfect alignment they stop working....

[Bitsyncmaster]

I'll second that opinion with Rob!
I have switched to actuators... The delorean door needs muscle to pull on those door locks.

Actuators are very weak. Plus if they loose their perfect alignment they stop working....

They do work slower but I've never had a problem with my actuators. Never measured the pull/push force but say 0.5 seconds at 5 amps would be more power than 0.1 second at 10 amps. If you try to run actuators with the LockZilla, they will not work because the timing is to short.

[ALEXAKOS]

They do work slower but I've never had a problem with my actuators. Never measured the pull/push force but say 0.5 seconds at 5 amps would be more power than 0.1 second at 10 amps. If you try to run actuators with the LockZilla, they will not work because the timing is to short.

Which actuators have you used Dave?

[Bitsyncmaster]

Which actuators have you used Dave?

From Toby.

[robvanderveer]

the actuators on my car are fine (unknown source, but 99% no chinese knockoffs) it is the linkage adjustments that keeps bugging me. Sometimes the door doesn't unlatch (not locked) so you are stuck. it seems to change with temperature. But my point is the actuators are fine.

[PJ Grady Inc.]

the actuators on my car are fine (unknown source, but 99% no chinese knockoffs) it is the linkage adjustments that keeps bugging me. Sometimes the door doesn't unlatch (not locked) so you are stuck. it seems to change with temperature. But my point is the actuators are fine.

My point is that that's the point! Actuaters work when they do...and when conditions are not optimal they don't. Actuaters that I've seen used in the Delorean doors are borderline strong enough and very often don't work in cooler temperatures of if any adjustments are not spot on.

Our rebuilt solenoids always work when all adjustments are in the ballpark and the connections are clean. Combined with a Lockzilla module they are bulletproof and will last many years under all conditions. The problem with this scenario is that the Lockzilla module has not been produced for quite a few years but I am working to rectify the situation. I'll post more info as things develop. In the meantime I'd suggest that you stick with solenoids.

Rob Grady

[robvanderveer]

Yes Rob, I understood that and I got your point. But my issue with the linkage i was talking about has nothing to do with the locks, but with the latches. My actuators haven't failed me a single time (not yet /knocks on wood). So i was trying to explain a slightly different issue about the sensitivity of the rods.

[PJ Grady Inc.]

Yes Rob, I understood that and I got your point. But my issue with the linkage i was talking about has nothing to do with the locks, but with the latches. My actuators haven't failed me a single time (not yet /knocks on wood). So i was trying to explain a slightly different issue about the sensitivity of the rods.

I agree that the rod adjustments are very sensitive but I hate to see someone sustitute actuators for soleniods because every adjustment must be perfect or they won't work consistently. That's what I meant to say. Of course anyone can use whatever they wish to use. I was just trying to explain the possible drawbacks of going to actuators but since you're happy with them that's great!

Rob Grady

[Bitsyncmaster]

The problem with this scenario is that the Lockzilla module has not been produced for quite a few years but I am working to rectify the situation. I'll post more info as things develop. In the meantime I'd suggest that you stick with solenoids.

Rob Grady

The original Lockzilla mostly copied the OEM DeLorean door lock unit. The major problem with that design was the timing for the relays was done with a resistor capacitor timing circuit so the relay voltage would fall slowly. That made the slow relay opening subject to relay contact pins burning. The Lockzilla used 70 amp relays but I designed a better circuit and posted a schematic about 5 years ago.

[David T]

The original Lockzilla mostly copied the OEM DeLorean door lock unit. The major problem with that design was the timing for the relays was done with a resistor capacitor timing circuit so the relay voltage would fall slowly. That made the slow relay opening subject to relay contact pins burning. The Lockzilla used 70 amp relays but I designed a better circuit and posted a schematic about 5 years ago.

The main problem with the OEM door relay is the capacity of the relay contacts. The contacts must be oversized to handle the current when opening them under a high inductance load. A high inductance load has the effect of increasing the electrical "inertia", meaning the current still wants to continue even after the relay contacts open causing arcing which causes heat which, after many cycles can weld the contacts together. Now the solenoid coils are not momentarily energized, they are being fed current continuously and they are not meant to handle that much current. All that current is heat and that is what causes the solenoids to burn up. The net effect is you burn out your solenoids and are locked in your car till the battery goes dead. One way to stop this cycle is to add a 10 amp in-line fuse in the big red wire that feeds the door locking module. The other problem with the OEM module is the high standby current. If the car is not used, it is a large drain on the battery and eventually it weakens the battery so much that it can't start the car. There is a mod for that or you can install a battery master switch.

[robvanderveer]

Can we get this stuff into a FAQ? I'm getting deja-vu's after 5 years of reading dmctalk, lol :D

[ALEXAKOS]

Can we get this stuff into a FAQ? I'm getting deja-vu's after 5 years of reading dmctalk, lol :D

We need to consider fellow members of the Alzheimer's community...