starter

[andy blackmon]

Today my car would not start, the battery is new and everything works but the car would only click when the key was turned. After several attempts it started. I checked the battery post to be sure they are tight, do I have a starter or solenoid problem? If so how hard is it to replace the starter?
Andy B 03513

[Patrick C]

Clean all of your connections with sandpaper: battery, frame grounds, and starter.

[sean]

Disregard the posted vin range and make sure the Starter mod (http://www.dmcnews.com/bulletins/ST-05-2.82.html) has been done. I know you said it was a new battery but did you check the charge on it?

[Kenny_Z]

That's the exact same symptom I had on Red. Does it feel like you're hitting a dead spot in the starter and until you move passed it you can't get anything but clicking?

I had a 66 Mustang do the exact same thing and I corrected it by swapping the starter. It was so much cheaper with the stang but more painful...I dropped the starter on my head while replacing it. I swapped the starter in the D and haven't seen the problem since...and I didn't get a concussion doing it.

[DMCMW Dave]

This sounds a bit crude but whack the starter with the biggest hammer you have and try again. If that "fixes" it you need a starter.

[Nicholas R]

This sounds a bit crude but whack the starter with the biggest hammer you have and try again. If that "fixes" it you need a starter.

And if it doesn't, you'll have a starter with a big dent in the side, in which case you'll need a new starter anyway, haha ;)

Seriously though is there something that gets dislodged that the above method temporarily fixes?

[Bitsyncmaster]

Yes, make sure you have the start modification. That modification puts more voltage on the starter solenoid. Note the wire added to the breaker must go on the battery side and not the load side.

The hammer works because the starter solenoid gets stuck with old grease. It also has to pull the gear into the engine ring gear and make contact with the battery cable to the starter.

That hammer always seems to get it working if that solenoid is causing the problem. The same set up was used by Chevrolet for 40 years.

[DMCMW Dave]

And if it doesn't, you'll have a starter with a big dent in the side, in which case you'll need a new starter anyway, haha ;)

Seriously though is there something that gets dislodged that the above method temporarily fixes?

At that angle you can't hit it hard enough to actually damage anything. Starters are pretty beefy. It's just, as "other" Dave noted, knocking the solenoid loose. I've been using this trick since my 1970 Nova, and it worked last year on my 98 Suburban as well.

This works on DeLorean window motors too.

[David T]

Hitting the starter with a big hammer will shake it up. If something is stuck it may make it move. Most often the problem is the carbon brushes sticking in the brushholders and not making full contact with the commutator. Usually because the brushes are worn short. No matter what the reason if the hammer trick works you should be getting that starter off as soon as possible.
David Teitelbaum

[Rich]

A typical failure mode after 25 years is a bad starter solenoid. First make sure you have the factory relay mod in place. And your battery is adequate and charged.

As the solenoid contacts wear they eventually cannot make a good connection and all you get is a good "click" as the solenoid pulls in but no starter action. For some months it will be intermittent with repeated key-turns usually getting a good connection, becoming less and less reliable.

In this case the starter motor and drive are normally fine and will work solidly after you pull the starter and replace the solenoid. Cost is <$100 if you DIY, then you're good for another 25-30 years.

[David T]

Typically if the solenoid is worn, sticking, burnt, etc, it is because of a chronically undercharged battery. If the voltage is low the amperage goes up and that is what burns the contacts. If you use the car occasionally the battery is going to always be low and the alternator is always working hard trying to keep the battery fully charged. It should only have to replace the power used to start the motor.
David Teitelbaum

[DniveK]

I replaced my starter solenoid today, put it all back together the same way it came apart(I think). Went to start the car...nothing. Does not turn over at all. Checked wires, and found solenoid was very warm. Here is a picture of the way I have it wired...what's wrong?

[jawn101]

I replaced my starter solenoid today, put it all back together the same way it came apart(I think). Went to start the car...nothing. Does not turn over at all. Checked wires, and found solenoid was very warm. Here is a picture of the way I have it wired...what's wrong?

I was going to say it might be because nothing's hooked up.... but then I saw your lines :) They are a little tough to see, can you do them in a brighter color?

[DniveK]

I am beyond frustrated right now. This should have been an easy fix, removed the starter, pulled the solenoid and put on the new one. Easy....so what in the %&@# is causing it to not turn over. I just pulled it off again and took apart the solenoid to make sure the plugger wasn't getting hung up. No change. I am about to pull the solenoid and put the old one back on, at least my car started with it on. I had replaced it becuase the contacts were burned and the Positive post was spinning when I tightened it. Anyway here is a pic with better lines.

[stevedmc]

I am beyond frustrated right now. This should have been an easy fix, removed the starter, pulled the solenoid and put on the new one. Easy....so what in the %&@# is causing it to not turn over. I just pulled it off again and took apart the solenoid to make sure the plugger wasn't getting hung up. No change. I am about to pull the solenoid and put the old one back on, at least my car started with it on. I had replaced it becuase the contacts were burned and the Positive post was spinning when I tightened it. Anyway here is a pic with better lines.

Eagle Premier starters are available at Autozone for $99 plus core and come with a lifetime warranty. Have you replaced the starter relay? Also, the starter gets its power from a wire that connects to the AC circuit breaker. If the starter wire is not on the battery side of the circuit breaker, this could cause a problem as well.

[DniveK]

Something that concerns me: I turn off the battery kill switch while I am installing/removing electrical> When I reinstalled my solenoid and powered on the switch the solenoid got warm to the touch without turning over the key to start. I never had any starter problems, not even a weak starter. The only reason I replaced the solenoid was due to the post spinning and not letting me tighten the contection properly. Starter relay does click when I turn the key to start, with no reaction at the starter.

[Ron]

Is this a K-Jet engine?...if so you have the wrong number of terminals (with two strapped together).
The solenoid would need: Main connection (straight to batttery w/several wires), starter feed, trigger, ignition resistor(s).


Was there a strap between the Main and small terminals that use nuts on the old solenoid?

Did you put new ends on anything?


Eagle Premier starters are available at Autozone for $99 plus core and come with a lifetime warranty. Have you replaced the starter relay? Also, the starter gets its power from a wire that connects to the AC circuit breaker. If the starter wire is not on the battery side of the circuit breaker, this could cause a problem as well.
The starter can't be feed through our breakers...that would be way to high of an amperage...I'm guessing you mean one that is fed from there???

[DniveK]

Yes this is a Kjet system, stock. The original solenoid had that same strapping from the main lug to the small one. Not sure if it was on the starter side or the power lug thou, so it may not have had anything on it if it was swapped. Can anyone show a picture of the correct wiring as a reference?

[nullset]

You have a few wires coming in:

2x thick red wires. One goes from the battery to the big lug. The other goes up to the jump start post
1x Red/white wire - This one should go to +12 when you turn the key to 'start'.

The ground is provided through the frame, I think.

Here's the wiring diagram, if that helps:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?40-All-Wiring-Schematics

--buddy

[Ron]

A stock solenoid has 4 unique connections. The fourth is missing in your pic and you only have 3 unique places if you leave the strap.
Where is the Blue-Yellow wire?

[DniveK]

A stock solenoid has 4 unique connections. Thefourth is missing in your pic and you only have 3 unique plases if you leave the strap.
Where is the Blue-Yellow wire?

That large lug on the left goes directly to the starter(Yellow Wire)

[Ron]

That large lug on the left goes directly to the starter(Yellow Wire)It looks like a yellow wire comes out of the starter an goes out of sight and comes back up (but no yellow showing right at the end) and goes to the big stud next to the bladed terminal on the solenoid (correct?)
But There is supposed to be a Blue with Yellow striped wire...

[DniveK]

Someone please post a pic of your correctly installed starter.

[Ron]

Someone please post a pic of your correctly installed starter.:popcorn:

[Bitsyncmaster]

I think you need to pull that copper jumper off. Then the large wires with large lugs got to that large bolt. The white/red to small bolt. And you should have a blue yellow that goes to the flat pin.

My starter is not the stock one so a photo would not help with mine.

[DniveK]

Dave, I blew out the side of the digital relay for the starter. I'll need to order a new one from you. Please PM me your $ and email and I'll send you Paypal. Thanks

[DniveK]

Problem solved. The jumper was the problem. Evidently was installed on the wrong two terminals from the vendor. I should have noticed it, my fault. Damaged my digital relay, so this was a costly endeaver.

[Ron]

Please post a pic showing the strap on the correct two terminals.
:rolleyes:

[DMC5180]

Problem solved. The jumper was the problem. Evidently was installed on the wrong two terminals from the vendor. I should have noticed it, my fault. Damaged my digital relay, so this was a costly endeaver.

As I recall. The Jumper strap on my solenoid went from the Lower big stud to the engine side small terminal. 50/50 install and you won the lottery.

[DMCMW Dave]

See photo. "Trigger" is the white/red lead from the igntion switch (actually from the starter relay);
"Battery/Alt" is where the battery, jump start lead, and alternator are all connected together;
"Armature" is what feeds the actual starter motor;
"Coil Bypass" feeds the coil resistor bypass during starting (blue/yellow).

The small one with the strap should have no connections.

6568

[Ron]

+1

It would be interesting to know why it didn't run all of the time with the Battery tied to the trigger...

[Bitsyncmaster]

+1

It would be interesting to know why it didn't run all of the time with the Battery tied to the trigger...

Good question.

[DMC5180]

The small one with the strap should have no connections.

6568

Under normal conditions this is true. Beware of PO modifications.

I however, had a starter solenoid with the relay By-pass wire missing from the location it exits the plastic end cap. It was sealed off with RTV. A crude makeshift wire was made up with a large ring terminal and male bullet connector on the other end. It was attached to the large lower stud on the solenoid and connected to the blue/yellow ignition relay wire. Electrically it worked the same as the original configuration. It would also work if attached to the small stud with the strap on it.

If a person is going to convert to the EAGLE Lightweight starter, you would make a similar harness adapter and either connect it to the lower Larger stud or the same small terminal as the RED/WHITE wire. This is assuming you don't want to cut the terminal off the factory harness and replace it with a ring terminal of appropriate size for the attaching location. All you a doing is suppling 12V to the By-Pass relay coil. It does matter if it happens via the Starter solenoid or the Starter relay circuit. Everything happens instantaneous anyway when you turn the key to start.

[Bitsyncmaster]

The additional load on the white/red wire tied with the blue/yellow wire is not enough to require using the starter as a relay. I see why they did it in the original design but when they added the resistor bypass relay, that current is now only about 60 ma. and it still floats the bypass wire.

I also found my car was not wired like shown in the schematic. I think the factory wires connected additional "white/red" loads to that blue/yellow wire.

[andy blackmon]

As it turned out the starter was fine. I went back over the system and retightened all the bolts including the ones on the battery and for the last few weeks all is well. My advice is to always recheck all the connections on any thing on the car before panic sets in-- this was a lesson learned check the connections first.
Andy B 03513