Polyurethane bushings - interested?

[Tomcio]

Hello everyone,

As you all surely know by now I have sped up my restoration project and 6149 will be on the road pretty soon. I had to drop my stainless frame project (the frame is for sale again) and will be using the original steel frame. Since I don't want to reuse my old bushings I have two choices now:
1. Get replacements (regular rubber ones) but I've heard that the ones available now are not the best quality and they don't last very long
2. Get polyurethane replacements that will improve the ride and will last the life of the car
I can have the new bushings made but I need to pay for molds in which they will be formed. Those are fairly expensive and it wouldn't be cost effective if I was to make a single set. So, I need to ask if anyone is interested in getting a set of poly bushings.
One size will fit both (four for both sides) rear links and lower front. Each car uses 10 that are the same size. If there is enough interest I might make some molds for the upper front as well but they will be more expensive and installation will be more difficult as there are no sleeves mounted in the control arms. For the rear links you just need to take them off the car, have a shop remove the old bushings (a press is required) and that's it. New polyurethane bushings can be installed by hand without any special tools.

The hardness of the material can be made to order. We can have them made exactly as the OEM rubber, softer or harder. It all depends on what you're looking for - OEM ride quality, softer ride or a more sporty one with better handling.

Polyurethane bushings can be any color we want but they are usually color coded based on their hardness. Black is OEM, green/blue is soft, red/orange is hard (sport), yellow is very hard (race). This is what my manufacturer uses and in our case OEM equals to red/orange.

The price for a single bushing would be about $40 or a full set of 10 for $400.

Please post in this thread is you are interested. If we go ahead with this project I should start shipping them out at the end of January or so... if everything goes to plan (it never does) ;).

Other bushings can be made as well. The ones that we can't do are engine and transmission mounts.

[BABIS]

I have all the poly bushes already existent in the delorean market, but I would be interested in a set of poly bushes for the steering rack (pn 105843 and 108151)

[Mark D]

Tom, I'm not sure if you're aware but most of the bushings already exist in polyurethane. The majority of them can be found here: (also sold in the US by DMCMW)

http://www.delorean.eu/catalog/index.php?cPath=20_143&osCsid=ul8s73i6tu38ssor2p76mh1nj7

and Toby at DMCNW also has these for the sway bar frame mount and LCA:
http://delorean-parts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=DPNW&Product_Code=K1006DP-C


I've got poly bushings on the whole front my car (except the steering rack bushings) but went with reproduction OE style rubber bushings for the rear upper and lower suspension links. I've read from a few other people that using poly at the rear has a somewhat harsh ride quality and that the bushings tend to rub on the frame since they are halves with a flange and not a press in type bushing like the stock rubber. I've found that the reproduction rubber bushings from DMCH have held up well so far over the year and a half I've been running them.

Of course if you're looking to source your own poly solution that is still something you may want to look into. I just didn't know if you were aware that there are some options already available.

If you had a company create the rear link (same as front lower control arm) bushings with a durometer similar to stock rubber I might be interested.

One note on the front upper control arm bushings...those were quite a pain in the ass to install and required a custom set of machined steel blocks to prevent distorting the U shaped channel of the control arm when pressing in the new bushings. More info here: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?5470-Polyurethane-Bushings&p=78192&viewfull=1#post78192

[FABombjoy]

Make a poly shifter bushing kit and I'll be your first customer.

[Domi]

Tom, what will be the main difference between your manufacturer and those of Superflex?
http://www.superflex.co.uk/products.php?cat=111

[BABIS]

Make a poly shifter bushing kit and I'll be your first customer.

JFYI, I replaced my shifter bushings with teflon ones..

[Mark D]

JFYI, I replaced my shifter bushings with teflon ones..

Any chance you'd share where you sourced the bushings? I'm more interested in teflon over poly for the shifter bushings. Maybe start a new thread as to not derail Toms?

[ALEXAKOS]

I would be interested in a set of poly bushes for the steering rack (pn 105843 and 108151)

Actually I custom made mine. Not too hard.

[Tomcio]

OK, seems that this project will not fly

I am aware that they are available from other sources but I still wanted to have them made myself. The cost would be lower. As usual the more we make the cheaper they are. The price that I have mentioned above is a starting price and would go down from there based on the number of sets ordered. Then there is a matter of hardness. I've heard some people complain that the poly bushes are too hard and the ride is not comfortable. Since we can choose any hardness we want I was thinking about making something similar to OEM rubber. Actually, each set could be different because I would be making one set at a time. So, custom hardness would be possible.
Anyway, it was just an idea but since they are available it simply makes no sense. I will try to make a set for my own car though.

Steering rack bushes - the problem with those is that the mold required would be pretty complex - read expensive. It's possible but I don't know what it will cost. I'll try to get some quotes when I get a chance.

Shifter linkage bushes - yes, those can be made and I want to make them. Mine are all worn out and need to go. To be honest I believe that polyurethane would be a lot better suited than teflon which is very slippery but pretty hard. Polyurethane can be made as soft or as hard as you like. I'll take some measurements and will let you know what it will cost.

That's all for now. I'll get back to you with some prices for the steering rack and shift linkage bushes.

Thanks

[Tillsy]

I've heard some people complain that the poly bushes are too hard and the ride is not comfortable.

Ride comfort is 100% personal opinion and, more often than not, is usually heard more from those that are unhappy than those that are happy.

Eg if 'some' of said it's too hard then there's likely a shittonne that say otherwise.

I'm one of them - couldn't be happier with how phenomenally better handling is with poly bushings.

[Patrick C]

Tom, what will be the main difference between your manufacturer and those of Superflex?
http://www.superflex.co.uk/products.php?cat=111

I have these along with Toby's sway bar bushings. Great products.

[Tomcio]

Make a poly shifter bushing kit and I'll be your first customer.

I have taken some measurements and I'm ready to start making a mold. I'll have the shifter bushings made out of polyurethane. The question is how hard or soft do we want them? OEM or harder? I don't think softer is really a good idea here. My idea is to go slightly harder than original rubber. Let me know what you guys think and how many sets I should make.


I have these along with Toby's sway bar bushings. Great products.

Looks like I'll be giving them a call soon. I wonder if they ship to Poland... We'll see. Thanks for the link Domi!

[Mark D]

I'm in for a set a poly bushings too for the shifter. Anything has got to be better than the deteriorated rubber on my car.

[FABombjoy]

I have taken some measurements and I'm ready to start making a mold. I'll have the shifter bushings made out of polyurethane. The question is how hard or soft do we want them? OEM or harder?
Good question, let's ask the experienced person :)


JFYI, I replaced my shifter bushings with teflon ones..
Cool! Any NVH complaints? Did you replace all 4 bushings? Was this a DIY or did you find an off the shelf solution?

Teflon is shore 98A, high compared to most urethane bushing kits. If it works well w/ no significant introduction of noise into the cabin then that's good news.

[DMCMW Dave]

Teflon is shore 98A, high compared to most urethane bushing kits. If it works well w/ no significant introduction of noise into the cabin then that's good news.

If you are not worried about NVH (noise/vibration), I've thought about using heim ends (i.e. ball ends) in the shift linkage and adding a proper bearing to the pivot bolt area. Probably be pretty noisy but if you want a direct-feeling shifter it would be the way to go. I have not heard of anyone doing this though.

[FABombjoy]

If you are not worried about NVH (noise/vibration), I've thought about using heim ends (i.e. ball ends) in the shift linkage and adding a proper bearing to the pivot bolt area. Probably be pretty noisy but if you want a direct-feeling shifter it would be the way to go. I have not heard of anyone doing this though.
I certainly encourage you to give it a go and let us know how well it works ;)

[andyd]

Let me know what you guys think and how many sets I should make.




I'm probably up for a full set Tom.

Although I haven't checked my existing ones, but as the box is out, why not?!

Will keep an eye on this thread.

Cheers,

Andy

[LordFly]

I would definitely be interested in a full set of black ones!

[Tomcio]

OK, it seems like I will go ahead with this project. I'm thinking about making the shift linkage bushes a bit harder than OEM. This should provide more precise shifting while still damping vibration. I would go with a different color though. I don't want them to look the same as the OEM rubber.
I have another question for those interested. Each one of those rubber bushings has two plastic sleeves that go inside. Should I be making those as well? On my car the rubber is long gone but the sleeves are in perfect condition and can be reused. What do you think? Do you want the plastic sleeves to be a part of the kit?

[andyd]

Do you want the plastic sleeves to be a part of the kit?

Great stuff! As I say, I haven't seen mine, but gut feeling says yes, new sleeves too...

Are everyone else's still okay? If so, I will presume mine are too.

Thanks tom,

Andy

[jwrayth]

I replaced my rubber bushes in the shift linkage this summer, and the existing plastic sleeves were fine.

[Mark D]

Sounds like the stock plastic survives and is reusable. I just did a short shift kit on my BMW a few weeks ago and it had poly for some of the bushings and brass sleeves. Not sure how much cost that would add for this DeLorean setup, or it would even be necessary...or if brass would actually be worse and cause corrosion issues where the plastic wouldn't.

[gongloo]

If you are not worried about NVH (noise/vibration), I've thought about using heim ends (i.e. ball ends) in the shift linkage and adding a proper bearing to the pivot bolt area. Probably be pretty noisy but if you want a direct-feeling shifter it would be the way to go. I have not heard of anyone doing this though.

I'd be happy to test such a setup.

[Henrik]

I removed the front sway bar (while replacing the radiator) and as I yanked on the sway bar (while attached to the LCA only), front-aft, I noticed that the lower control arms were moving front-aft quite a bit as well. There was no slack per se, just a lot of flex. Is this the issue that the polyurethane bushings for the suspension will solve? (Note that I am not asking about any of the sway bar bushings.)

[dn010]

I removed the front sway bar (while replacing the radiator) and as I yanked on the sway bar (while attached to the LCA only), front-aft, I noticed that the lower control arms were moving front-aft quite a bit as well. There was no slack per se, just a lot of flex. Is this the issue that the polyurethane bushings for the suspension will solve? (Note that I am not asking about any of the sway bar bushings.)

No matter what bushing is in there, with the sway bar unbolted from the frame the LCA will still move.

[Flash66]

No it won't solve all of it. The LCA's and the design are pure shit. The bushings along with the bracket supports from Ed Uding or Josh at DPI that bolt to the LCA and the frame will cure most of it. Also reinforcing the LCA by welding it up with some metal to box it in is also a good idea. I'm sure you'll get plenty of advice here but these suggestions are spot on. One issue is the cost for these brackets at $500.00. I see the welding and custom fab that is done to make them but imo ridiculously priced for what they are stainless or not.

[Henrik]

Very good feedback, thanks. So this goes to show that the front sway bar really serves two purposes:

1) Load transfer (for example: when turning right, compression of the left front suspension transfers the load to the right front suspension in the opposite direction, helping the wheel to maintain ground contact)

and now I have learned:

2) Keeping longitudinal movement of the front suspension at a minimum

[Flash66]

Pretty much Henrik and transfers the load to the frame which is also a very weak link.

[Stainless]

I'm reviving this thread as I am considering poly bushings for the sway bar as the rubber bushings seem to be the source of the suspension noise. Using this thread, I found these for a total cost of around $50.

http://www.superflex.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=SF111-0634KSS

http://www.superflex.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=SF111-1450K

This seems like the much less expensive route than Toby's that are priced near $100:

http://delorean-parts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=DPNW&Product_Code=K1006DP-C

Has anyone had a good experience with the SuperFlex bushings, or is Toby's kit worth the extra coin?

[Mark D]

I went with Toby's even though they are more expensive. The urethane he uses has a higher shore harness than the polyflex bushings and I thought they would do a better job of keeping the front alignment in spec. I bought a set from DMC Europe and those were also quite a bit softer that the DMCNW bushings.

Plus I also try to support any DMC vendor whenever I can :wrenchin:

[Patrick C]

I'm reviving this thread as I am considering poly bushings for the sway bar as the rubber bushings seem to be the source of the suspension noise. Using this thread, I found these for a total cost of around $50.

http://www.superflex.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=SF111-0634KSS

http://www.superflex.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=SF111-1450K

This seems like the much less expensive route than Toby's that are priced near $100:

http://delorean-parts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=DPNW&Product_Code=K1006DP-C

Has anyone had a good experience with the SuperFlex bushings, or is Toby's kit worth the extra coin?
I have Toby's up front and love them. I have superflex on the rear upper and lower LCA's.