Problem: Angle drive or Dust shield?

[refugeefromcalif]

About a month ago I started having problems with my speedometer being erratic. (Dust shield 2+ years old, stock angle drive).
The first time was on a 30 deg. morning going to work. The first 1/2 mile it worked fine. Coming up to the first stop sign it just died.
Turning the corner it started being erratic and then smoothed out and worked fine again. 2 miles onto the 4 lane road, it died for a couple miles then started working again.
The first time I had the speedo die was on my maiden trip home from DMCFL. It died and stayed dead. I replaced the Dust shield it has worked great, (for 26,000 miles), until recently.

It's been acting this way for about a month so, my question:
Can the Angle drive act up in this manner?, Or does it just Die? (I have a spare). I'm guessing it's just a Dust shield situation again. (I don't have a spare).

(No, I haven't taken the wheel off and checked the Dust shield yet. I plan on that later today).

Thanks in advance!

George

[TTait]

I'm guessing it could be the angle drive - I've had them get flaky before they die...

Pull the wheel off and check the dust cap - it may have started rounding off where the cable enters it, or it may just be slipping in the wheel. If it looks okay reinstall it and mark its index to the wheel with a paint pen or similar. If it slips again it will be obvious.

Before you reinstall it though, turn the input cable by hand. You may have to use pliers, with a little force. Does the action feel smooth? With an assistant you can hook a drill up to the cable and spin it - see if the needle bounces or is smooth, and see if there is any noise you can hear over the drill that might indicate a trouble spot. Your assistant can also put a finger on the lamda counter on the firewall to see if it feels like a peppermill grinding. After seeing how its all working, then lube the speedo cables, upper and lower.

Grease your angle drive - and see how it performs at that point. I would not just replace the angle drive before checking and lubing the rest of the system. If part of the problem is increased resistance in the speedo cable or lamda counter then the weakest link in the system will be abused - that is supposed to be the dust cap - but it could end up being the angle drive.

You could use some silicon sealant when you reinstall the dust cap - but it is designed to be the weak link in the system. It can break free of the wheel and spin, or the inside can strip. Its a cheap part and easy to replace so I'd avoid using the silicon and let it remain the sacrificial part of the system.

Also - look and see if you have the cable bracket 110528 with the speedo cable support, or 106646 (ref here http://store.delorean.com/c-351-5-1-1-speedometer-drive.aspx ). I suggest getting and using the former. It gives you something to cable tie the lower speedo cable to and relieves stress to the connection point where that cable ties to the angle drive. These were unavailable for some time but I think it is Ed Uding that has had them reproduced.

[PJ Grady Inc.]

I'm guessing it could be the angle drive - I've had them get flaky before they die...

Pull the wheel off and check the dust cap - it may have started rounding off where the cable enters it, or it may just be slipping in the wheel. If it looks okay reinstall it and mark its index to the wheel with a paint pen or similar. If it slips again it will be obvious.

Before you reinstall it though, turn the input cable by hand. You may have to use pliers, with a little force. Does the action feel smooth? With an assistant you can hook a drill up to the cable and spin it - see if the needle bounces or is smooth, and see if there is any noise you can hear over the drill that might indicate a trouble spot. Your assistant can also put a finger on the lamda counter on the firewall to see if it feels like a peppermill grinding. After seeing how its all working, then lube the speedo cables, upper and lower.

Grease your angle drive - and see how it performs at that point. I would not just replace the angle drive before checking and lubing the rest of the system. If part of the problem is increased resistance in the speedo cable or lamda counter then the weakest link in the system will be abused - that is supposed to be the dust cap - but it could end up being the angle drive.

You could use some silicon sealant when you reinstall the dust cap - but it is designed to be the weak link in the system. It can break free of the wheel and spin, or the inside can strip. Its a cheap part and easy to replace so I'd avoid using the silicon and let it remain the sacrificial part of the system.

Also - look and see if you have the cable bracket 110528 with the speedo cable support, or 106646 (ref here http://store.delorean.com/c-351-5-1-1-speedometer-drive.aspx ). I suggest getting and using the former. It gives you something to cable tie the lower speedo cable to and relieves stress to the connection point where that cable ties to the angle drive. These were unavailable for some time but I think it is Ed Uding that has had them reproduced.

To be honest I've experienced a lot of failures of the reproduction dust caps (speedo adapter cup is more correct) and am considering making my own. I've found the new ones often need to be ground down on a benchgrinder to be fit to the hub without banging them on with a hammer (which I will not do). They also strip out with far greater frequency than the obviously stronger plastic originals. You can tell them apart by color. The repro's are bright white while the NOS version has a slight tannish or yellow color. The material I'm considering will be almost translucent I'm told so each version will be discernable to the eye. My version will be more expensive at around $30- so I'd like as much feedback as I can get because I'm ready to pull the trigger on this project.

So please tell if I'm crazy or have some of you noticed what I'm talking about and would like a better Speedo Adapter Cup. My decision rests on your feedback and PM's are most welcome lest we offend anybody. I probably already did but I'm good like that! Ok going home for dinner.
Rob Grady

[PJ Grady Inc.]

About a month ago I started having problems with my speedometer being erratic. (Dust shield 2+ years old, stock angle drive).
The first time was on a 30 deg. morning going to work. The first 1/2 mile it worked fine. Coming up to the first stop sign it just died.
Turning the corner it started being erratic and then smoothed out and worked fine again. 2 miles onto the 4 lane road, it died for a couple miles then started working again.
The first time I had the speedo die was on my maiden trip home from DMCFL. It died and stayed dead. I replaced the Dust shield it has worked great, (for 26,000 miles), until recently.

It's been acting this way for about a month so, my question:
Can the Angle drive act up in this manner?, Or does it just Die? (I have a spare). I'm guessing it's just a Dust shield situation again. (I don't have a spare).

(No, I haven't taken the wheel off and checked the Dust shield yet. I plan on that later today).

Thanks in advance!

George
To answer your question directly it sounds like the speedo adapter cup is the culprit here.

[SS Spoiler]

Just thinking out loud here, is there any way to put some sort of friction clutch in the cap to act as the weak spot. It would still protect the speedo and cables
but allow a jamb to to freewheel.......feel free to run with this

[Iznodmad]

How about a 3 piece package deal Rob? One piece cable that deletes the lambda counter box, bring back the old HCR angle drive with hardened innards, and new improved dust cap. Worry free speedo kit. Just a thought...

[BABIS]

How about a 3 piece package deal Rob? One piece cable that deletes the lambda counter box, bring back the old HCR angle drive with hardened innards, and new improved dust cap. Worry free speedo kit. Just a thought...

sounds nice! :)

[refugeefromcalif]

Thanks all for the replies!
TTait, I've done the drill test, (In reverse), in the past. Was unshure if it would tell me something this time because the speedo does work most of the time.
Rod Grady, If you can come up with something Better, I'd Love to buy it. (I used the term, Dust Shield because that's how DMC uses it on their parts page).

I called Julee at DMCMW today and placed an order for a new cap. If the rain here stops I'll check out if I really needed it.

George

[PJ Grady Inc.]

Hi Darren
I still carry the one piece cables. My supplier is slow to respond to reorders but I have a few at the moment. The HCR gears were very good but I mentioned possibly remaking them (I was responding to an old thread in the Custom Delorean section so that may be the problem there) and got little response so I don't know if there is still a need. I'd like to get feedback from anyone who would like a better angle drive and/or a stronger adapter cut to let me know either here or in a PM.
Rob



How about a 3 piece package deal Rob? One piece cable that deletes the lambda counter box, bring back the old HCR angle drive with hardened innards, and new improved dust cap. Worry free speedo kit. Just a thought...

[PJ Grady Inc.]

Just thinking out loud here, is there any way to put some sort of friction clutch in the cap to act as the weak spot. It would still protect the speedo and cables
but allow a jamb to to freewheel.......feel free to run with this
Wow...that would be a mighty expensive dustcap! I thought $30 might be a hard sell but can you imagine fitting some sort of clutch in there? Oh boy.
Rob

[DMC5180]

Just thinking out loud here, is there any way to put some sort of friction clutch in the cap to act as the weak spot. It would still protect the speedo and cables
but allow a jamb to to freewheel.......feel free to run with this

If you have so much friction upstream in the system to cause the cup to strip out ( or clutch device to slip) you have other issues that need to be addressed. A $15 - $30 speedo drive cup is chump change IMHO.

It seems like a lot the Remanufactured (service) parts have had less than desirable service histories. It would be nice if the term IMPROVED (better than the OE) actually meant something. While there are items out there that do have a good track record so far ( steering racks, fuse boxes with much better Terminals) I know there are Are more. It's the Weak stuff that keeps weighing down on the truly good items.

[DMC5180]

To be honest I've experienced a lot of failures of the reproduction dust caps (speedo adapter cup is more correct) and am considering making my own. I've found the new ones often need to be ground down on a benchgrinder to be fit to the hub without banging them on with a hammer (which I will not do). They also strip out with far greater frequency than the obviously stronger plastic originals. You can tell them apart by color. The repro's are bright white while the NOS version has a slight tannish or yellow color. The material I'm considering will be almost translucent I'm told so each version will be discernable to the eye. My version will be more expensive at around $30- so I'd like as much feedback as I can get because I'm ready to pull the trigger on this project.

So please tell if I'm crazy or have some of you noticed what I'm talking about and would like a better Speedo Adapter Cup. My decision rests on your feedback and PM's are most welcome lest we offend anybody. I probably already did but I'm good like that! Ok going home for dinner.
Rob Grady

Consider using Polycarbonate as the material, we know it's bullet proof. Remember those Dupont (Lexan) commercials 30 yrs ago. :gunfire: aka (polycarbonate)

[kings1527]

Hi Darren
I still carry the one piece cables. My supplier is slow to respond to reorders but I have a few at the moment. The HCR gears were very good but I mentioned possibly remaking them (I was responding to an old thread in the Custom Delorean section so that may be the problem there) and got little response so I don't know if there is still a need. I'd like to get feedback from anyone who would like a better angle drive and/or a stronger adapter cut to let me know either here or in a PM.
Rob

Rob,

I'd definitely be interested in a better angle drive if/when mine goes out. It seems the originals had problems with lack of lubrication but were otherwise good and even if a new but stronger design required regular lubrication, I'd have no problem with that. Super easy to do. I put 80W gear oil in my AD at every oil change and things seem to be holding up nicely, save for extremely cold weather which is extremely rare here in SoCal. And that's cold weather and keeping it outside overnight. First time in 2.5 years was the other day.

I love improved products that can be installed and not have to be changed again for at least 5-7 years (ideally 10+) but I know product turnover for the vendors is definitely a nice thing. If it means spending 25-50% more $$ for the part but the quality is that much better, the cash doesn't mean anything to me.

[refugeefromcalif]

I finally got the time to pull the front wheel off and check things out. The dust shield was Very loose in the bore. The square hole was Perfect.
I thought about shimming it with electrical tape like Dave suggested, (I'd guess 2 wraps was needed), but I went ahead and installed a new one.
Being that it's a Quick job, I guess I'd rather replace the dust shield then the angle drive every 2 1/2 years. (I'd rather not replace anything though).

Time for a quick road test... :biggrin:

George

[ccurzio]

So please tell if I'm crazy or have some of you noticed what I'm talking about and would like a better Speedo Adapter Cup.


YES PLEASE. I just replaced my angle drive yesterday, and noticed that the dust cap really didn't want to go all the way in.

I'm so sick of angle drive issues it's not even funny.

[refugeefromcalif]

Update time. I did the test drive, (in warm weather), the new dust shield worked Fine.
The next day speedo was good until I went out for lunch. It Glitched a few times then settled down.
On the way home from work it died. :eek1: It's been that way since. Time to install the new angle drive.

George

[BobLS]

Mine has an O ring on it. Doesn't seem right. Seems like the O ring is preventing the dust cap from fully seating inside the hub.

[David T]

There should not be an "O" ring. What I have seen is if you were worried about the dust cap slipping (it gets captured between the rim of the wheel and the hub) PO's have wrapped the edge with electrical tape. Very important the inside of the center is SQUARE. Once it gets rounded the square shaft will slip. It is kind of like a fuse, it rounds out if the angle drive or the cable jams.