Electric DeLorean

[Mario]

I've wanted a DeLorean ever since I was a kid and I saw Back to the Future. When I finally had the money to get a nice one, I found the electric DeLorean (http://delorean.com/2011/10/electric-delorean/) that DMCH presented in 2011. They said they'd be putting the cars into production in 2013, but as of mid-2014, there had been no further news of that.

So I called up DMCH and got in contact with Stephen Wynne. Apparently they had scrapped the plans to build more as they would be expensive (~$100k) and there didn't seem to be enough interest. I asked if they'd be willing to make another one-off for me, and they agreed to!

As some of you may know, there were several issues with the 2011 prototype like battery charging and wiring problems. This new one is being done by EV West (http://evwest.com/catalog/), which is a high-quality and reputable company. I've visited them, seen their work, and ridden in one of their converted cars, and they're very good. You can check our their press page to see some of the things they've built. I'm confident this build is in good hands.

As for the DeLorean side, DMCH is providing a roller (no engine or related components) built entirely out of never-used NOS. Essentially, a brand new DeLorean! They'll send it directly to EV West where they'll quickly do the conversion.

Quick Specs:
- ~100mi range (tentative)
- Less than 5s 0-60 (tentative)
- ~250HP (tentative)
- Scheduled for completion at the end of March
- DeLorean made from never-used NOS
- Stock manual transmission will be kept

Not all the details have been worked out on the EV side yet, hence the uncertainty in the related specs. But we're going for a fairly high-performance setup. EV West is currently working on a Ferrari conversion that uses a triple-motor setup (http://instagram.com/p/uQmvtugXO4/), which I'll be checking out once they finish it. They are thinking of a similar setup for my car.

That's all the info I've got. I'll update this thread as more news rolls in.

Here's a couple pictures of the body that DMCH sent me last month. Just the plain fiberglass body, unfortunately, not the new, lighter one they have been working on. They don't want me to guinea-pig it for them, so they're going with the tried-and-true.

http://i.imgur.com/JBvwv2r.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Zc9TWoH.jpg

Hope you guys are as excited as I am!

[Lou and "Boo"]

Mario, congratulations! I'm sure the car is going to cost a pretty penny. Have you checked out Dave Delman's electric Delorean ? If you google electric Delorean you will find it. Dave is one of the founders of the Long Island Delorean club, which I am proud to be a part of.
Looking forward to seeing the progress of your 'project'.

[rileydawgg]

Cool. I Remember seeing that BMW conversion they did and it looked crazy fast. Please keep the updates coming!

[Nicholas R]

Very cool project!

I'm a little confused though. I thought the DeLorean EV didn't use the original 5 speed transmission. Any idea why they're using one for you?

[Mario]

Lou: I have seen it before! Unfortunately, I think his title of "Worlds Most Powerful Electric DeLorean" is going to be usurped by mine!

Nicholas: The 2011 prototype was done by Epic EV, who decided to take out the transmission. Mine is being done by EV West, and they always keep the manual transmissions in their cars. I guess they've decided that's what's best. It can help get more powerful regen, too. And hey, not many people can say they have manual EVs!
Love your LS1-swapped DeLorean, by the way! It's very well-done and must be pretty fast.

[Jedidentist]

Can't wait to see how this turns out.

[movieman1026]

Very cool project!

I'm a little confused though. I thought the DeLorean EV didn't use the original 5 speed transmission. Any idea why they're using one for you?

I dont believe it did, though I could be wrong. I got to check it out at DMC CA I guess about a year ago and it looked like a direct drive setup, but they could have been going into the transaxel. There was no shifter, save for the ability to put it in park with a nob. I know they said the EV motor was so powerful in the early design stages that it was breaking some things.

slight tangent, but the EV/hybrid hummer H1 conversions Zero South did ultimately went with direct drive on their conversions in part because going into the stock transmission would both waste energy, and limited them to 1 motor (they did 2 motors ultimately, one bolted to each diff). I talked with the guys that designed it, they were very proud to have gotten better all EV range than the Volt lol. You can do some really sweet stuff with EVs now. the battery prices are only going to come down, and you can always swap them / add more when the time is right

[movieman1026]

How many KWh worth of batteries you throwing in? just in the rear or some under the front too?

Can't wait to see progress on this build!

[Beachdrifter]

Thanks for sharing. Keep us posted with as many pics as you can. It's nice to see someone able and willing to push new technology into the car. All the best,
Randy

[Tomcio]

In my opinion keeping the transmission makes absolutely no sense at all. It is meant to keep the ICE* engine in its peak torque range but the electric motor provides 100% torque from 0 to 100% RPM. There's no need for the manual transmission. The big thing is that you are loosing about 15% of the power plus you're carrying all that unnecessary weight! Why would you want that??
Keeping the transmission just so you get more regen makes no sense as well. You'll loose more due to trans losses and its weight than you'll gain with the regen.

The only logical approach is to get rid of the transmission and use a reduction setup coupled to the differential. Actually, if I was going to convert to EV I would probably buy a wrecked Tesla S to use their drive train, batteries and electronics. Their motor is so small that it would fit perfectly leaving a lot of room for batteries and other things. Besides, the thought of 416 electric HP in a DeLorean makes me drool uncontrollably ;)
If done right, you might be able to use their free Superchargers and that would really be sweet!
OR, get a wrecked Tesla Roadster (if you can find one) where the batteries are already built into a box that might fit in the engine bay. Do it right and you might end up with a 300+ mile range. If I only had more time...

* ICE - Internal Combustion Engine

Just my opinion.

[DavidProehl]

Very excited to see progress on this build! Sounds like you have a great car on the way!

[jangell]

I looked into some electric conversion stuff a couple of months ago, although more as a thought project with the idea of doing it myself someday and to get a basic idea of how things worked. I'm very far away from doing this; it'll be my project once key components of my 3.0L swap (that I'm still working on) fails in another decade or so. I've also only done maybe a day's worth of research, so I could be wildly off here...

It seems common in the DIY conversion community to continue to use a manual transmission when using a single electric DC motor. The issue appears to be that you can't necessarily get good performance at both low speeds and high speeds -- you can get lots of torque off the line, but then you can't get over 60 MPH; gear it the other way, and you're holding up traffic at stop lights as you try to accelerate. I don't think this limitation applies if you use a brushless DC motor (very, very expensive) or an induction motor (which is what Tesla uses), but I need to do more research to understand this better.

Shifting gears seems to be much different than when using an ICE, though, and I think you only really use two gears plus reverse. You can even drive the car in 2nd or 3rd all the time, if you want (especially useful when someone who don't know how to shift it borrows your car); you just lose the low/high end. Keeping the transmission simplifies the setup, since you get reverse for free without any extra electronics work.

A work-around is to use at least two DC motors, since you can get enough power at both low speeds and high speeds. At that point direct drive becomes more feasible, and you get a lot more power to boot. I also found a small (but expensive) two-speed-plus-reverse racing transmission modified for electric motor use, should you want access to even more power.

My thoughts so far on doing a conversion would have been one of two options:
Two motors inlined with each other (the shafts on some motors come out both ends, so you can chain together as many as you like), connected to a differential (probably from another car) that then connected to the DMC's transaxles/hub carriers. The trick there is length -- the electric motors are not small, and while one would comfortably fit in the engine bay, two inlined would probably not fit behind the wheels. If I could do one motor and get good performance at both low and high speeds, that would be great.
Two motors placed next to each other but pointing in opposite directions, one at each wheel (or some similar arrangement). This is more or less how the Mercedes SLS AMG electric drive works, although they do it on all four wheels with some small reduction gearing on the end of each motor. There's no need for a diff because each motor would operate independently. You would, however, need to have some control software to emulate a diff by varying the speed of the motors based on steering wheel angle or something.

There also seem to be three basic kinds of motors: brushed DC, brushless DC, and induction (AC), each with trade-offs in price, performance and life. I found a quick summary of them here (http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/58236/why-does-a-tesla-car-use-an-ac-motor-instead-of-a-dc-one), but I don't know enough to really say which one makes the most sense for a conversion.

I don't think you can just pull a Tesla battery pack out and use it in a DMC. My understanding is that the entire bottom of a Tesla (mostly the space from the back wheels and front wheels) is a battery sled that can be removed as a single unit (and in fact this is how their new battery swap stations work -- a robotic system takes the entire sled out and replaces it in about the time it would normally take to fill a gas tank). But this sled is quite specifically built in a shape specific to this car (very wide, very long, and very flat) and it seems it would be very difficult to put it in another vehicle without a lot of modifications. I'm also skeptical that the electronics can be removed and put in another car easily; I imagine all of it is intended to work together with the rest of the car's systems, but I have no specific evidence of this. It's also not clear to me how the electronics would have to be modified to adapt to another car's specifications, or if that is even an issue.

One of the advantages of my not planning to do this for another decade is that there should be enough wrecked Volts, Teslas and other EVs as to make engines much easier to source, as well as more EV conversions to use as reference. However, the pictures I found of the Tesla Roadster suggests the motor is ~2/3 the width of the car, which I'm not totally sure would fit in place of the DeLorean's engine to where the differential would need to be, but I haven't done any measurements or anything like that. It would be handy if it did fit, since I'm sure they've solved all the relevant engineering challenges.

I was thinking of using lithium ion batteries (like the major car manufactures use) instead of lead acid (which most DIY conversions seem to use) due to increased energy density and reduced weight, although they are trickier to charge and use safely. But I'm not wild about only a 100 mile range, nor am I sure I can fit enough batteries into the DMC, so I was also thinking about a hybrid design with a small, quiet gas generator in the engine bay (or possibly hydrogen, if Toyota's plans succeed over the next decade, although by then batteries might be a lot better too). The existing fuel system would be used to run the generator and charge a relatively small battery pack (also in the engine bay), with maybe 15-30 miles of reserve so you can get home if you run out of gas. The drivetrain, however, would be pure electric. This also gets around the lack of a way to charge an electric vehicle at my condo (which might change in another 10 years as well).

I should note that my primary purpose here is to eliminate the Renault automatic transmission in my car, as I'm getting tired of replacing them, and it seems the Porsche 911 is really the only other option due to the DeLorean's RWD/rear engine configuration. The performance and efficiency improvements of electric drive would just be a bonus, as would the much quieter ride. Amusingly enough, the pictures I found of the Tesla Roadster without the body on suggest that it's a RWD/rear engine car as well -- the electric motor sits behind the rear wheels.

Anyway, I'm very curious to see how this moviman's DeLorean build is done, what motors and batteries they used, and all that. Good luck!

-- Joe

[BABIS]

I've wanted a DeLorean ever since I was a kid and I saw Back to the Future.

Why not "just" an original one?

[Mario]

How many KWh worth of batteries you throwing in? just in the rear or some under the front too?
Something around 28-32KWh, if I remember correctly. They'll try to put in as much as possible without compromising the front trunk space or inside of the car.


In my opinion keeping the transmission makes absolutely no sense at all. It is meant to keep the ICE* engine in its peak torque range but the electric motor provides 100% torque from 0 to 100% RPM. There's no need for the manual transmission. The big thing is that you are loosing about 15% of the power plus you're carrying all that unnecessary weight! Why would you want that??
Keeping the transmission just so you get more regen makes no sense as well. You'll loose more due to trans losses and its weight than you'll gain with the regen.
Electric motors do have all their torque right off the line, yes. It is not true that they keep all that torque through their whole RPM range. Here's the torque curve (http://www.evwest.com/catalog/images/thumbs/def/large/products/hpevs-ac-51-brushless-motor-kit-144-volt-7.jpg) for one potential motor (it looks low power, but remember we'd have 2-3 together). You can see that after 5k RPM, the torque starts to drop quite a lot. With fixed speed, if the car were geared for good performance off the line, it would have very poor power at high speeds. Gear for good power at high speed, get poor acceleration. And something in the middle just compromises both. Why do it?

A small drop in efficiency through the transmission is fine if it makes the car more fun. A hundred miles of range is fine for me because the places I'm going to be driving it are far less than a hundred miles round trip. If I need to go really far, that's what my hybrid is for. Not as cool as a DeLorean, but oh well.


The only logical approach is to get rid of the transmission and use a reduction setup coupled to the differential. Actually, if I was going to convert to EV I would probably buy a wrecked Tesla S to use their drive train, batteries and electronics. Their motor is so small that it would fit perfectly leaving a lot of room for batteries and other things. Besides, the thought of 416 electric HP in a DeLorean makes me drool uncontrollably ;)
If done right, you might be able to use their free Superchargers and that would really be sweet!
OR, get a wrecked Tesla Roadster (if you can find one) where the batteries are already built into a box that might fit in the engine bay. Do it right and you might end up with a 300+ mile range. If I only had more time...

* ICE - Internal Combustion Engine

Just my opinion.
It's not really possible to put a Model S battery in a DeLorean since it makes up the entire bottom of the car. However, I have thought about putting the body of a DeLorean on top of the whole "skateboard" frame of a Model S. I dunno about that, though... I'd rather have a genuine DeLorean. Besides, the wheelbase of the Model S is 21 inches longer than the DeLorean's. Good luck getting that to fit!
I suppose you could take apart the battery and use the individual modules... I dunno, perhaps. But EV West has never done something like that before (nobody really has yet, actually), so we're just going with the tried-and-true. I have also thought about using a Roadster battery, but I think they're a bit too large. I can always upgrade the batteries in the future 6-8 years down the line when the ones that are going in finally stop working. I'm sure Li-ion battery tech will have improved a lot by then, and if Tesla gets their gigafactory going, battery prices could be super low!
There is somebody who has experimented with the Model S pack, though, and you can check out some of that here if you're interested:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/34934-Pics-Info-Inside-the-battery-pack
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/34934-Pics-Info-Inside-the-battery-pack/page27?p=755546&viewfull=1#post755546
http://hackaday.com/2014/11/11/draft-an-intverview-with-tesla-battery-hacker-wk057/

I just noticed that I basically just re-iterated everything that jangell said. So, check out his post (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?11244-Electric-DeLorean&p=164422&viewfull=1#post164422), too!

As for supercharger usage... stay tuned, I may have news about that in the future. ;)


Why not "just" an original one?
I'm not having a time machine conversion done, if that's what you mean. The movie made me aware of the DeLorean and made me fall in love with it.
If you're wondering why not a regular gas-powered one, well, no offense, but they're so, so underpowered. I could get a stage II or III kit, or do an engine swap, and it would be good. But an electric DeLorean is much more unique and cool! I'm willing to accept the compromises (high cost, limited range) for better performance and coolness.

[Tomcio]

Electric motors do have all their torque right off the line, yes. It is not true that they keep all that torque through their whole RPM range.
You're right. I over simplified when I said that the torque stays the same. Of course it doesn't. But then, there's one thing that comes to mind - use a different motor! Something that will provide higher RPM output and then just gear it down. Again, just what Tesla does.


A small drop in efficiency through the transmission is fine if it makes the car more fun.
Well, the drop is not going to be as small as you might think. You're right that having a manual trans is more fun so you have to decide if you want efficiency and range or fun. That's what it's all about, isn't it ;)
On the other hand with the limited energy storage I would go with efficiency and I would get rid of the transmission.


It's not really possible to put a Model S battery in a DeLorean since it makes up the entire bottom of the car. However, I have thought about putting the body of a DeLorean on top of the whole "skateboard" frame of a Model S. I dunno about that, though... I'd rather have a genuine DeLorean.
No, that's not what I was thinking about. That "skateboard" is way to big to fit the DeLorean. Besides, it would make the car a lot taller and that would kill the overall appearance of the car.


I suppose you could take apart the battery and use the individual modules...
That is exactly what I was thinking about. Since their battery is modular (kind of) I was thinking about taking it apart and then stuffing those "modules" wherever they would fit - above the motor and under the trunk floor. That might actually work.


As for supercharger usage... stay tuned, I may have news about that in the future. ;)
I think you'll have to talk to Tesla. First you'll have to get their permission, second you'll need a way to "talk" to the SC.

Good luck with the project. Sounds like fun! I really wish I had more time...

[Chris4099]

As an owner of two EVs (Tesla Model S and Fiat 500e), I'm curious as to how this will turn out. I would love to convert my D as well, but it's just not cost effective for me at this time because it would need to support DC quick charging so I could take it on road trips. To be practical there, you need at least a 50kWh battery and support for 100+kW charging. Needless to say, I take the Tesla for most road trips. :-) But I can always dream of having a D with the driving pleasures of an EV!

Please post lots of pics when they start working on it. Do you know the size of the AC charger they'll install? Try to get at least 6.6kW. Anything less will just be painfully slow if you need to use a public charger during the daytime.

Welcome to the future of driving!

[jontheg]

Whoa, this sounds awesome! Love the bare body + frame -- what a great way to start a project. :)

If you don't mind my asking, what's your budget for this project?

Excited to see what happens next!

[Mario]

As an owner of two EVs (Tesla Model S and Fiat 500e), I'm curious as to how this will turn out. I would love to convert my D as well, but it's just not cost effective for me at this time because it would need to support DC quick charging so I could take it on road trips. To be practical there, you need at least a 50kWh battery and support for 100+kW charging. Needless to say, I take the Tesla for most road trips. :-) But I can always dream of having a D with the driving pleasures of an EV!

Please post lots of pics when they start working on it. Do you know the size of the AC charger they'll install? Try to get at least 6.6kW. Anything less will just be painfully slow if you need to use a public charger during the daytime.

Welcome to the future of driving!
I've driven a Tesla Roadster and a P85D. They're definitely a ton of fun! My DeLorean won't be that fast, unfortunately. But then again, not else much is!
I'll have them put in the most powerful charger they have. I definitely want high charge rates.

I'll post more pictures as they come to me from DMCH, but I have nothing else for now!


Whoa, this sounds awesome! Love the bare body + frame -- what a great way to start a project. :)

If you don't mind my asking, what's your budget for this project?

Excited to see what happens next!
It's definitely exciting. The frame it's sitting on is not mine, by the way, just a shop frame on wheels to make the body easier to move around.

I'm not sure I want to give out exact numbers on the cost. It's probably a lot higher than most here would approve of.
Let me just say that getting a DMC-12 built from scratch is very expensive. Electric conversions like this are also definitely not cheap.

[jontheg]

I've driven a Tesla Roadster and a P85D. They're definitely a ton of fun! My DeLorean won't be that fast, unfortunately. But then again, not else much is!
I'll have them put in the most powerful charger they have. I definitely want high charge rates.

I'll post more pictures as they come to me from DMCH, but I have nothing else for now!


It's definitely exciting. The frame it's sitting on is not mine, by the way, just a shop frame on wheels to make the body easier to move around.

I'm not sure I want to give out exact numbers on the cost. It's probably a lot higher than most here would approve of.
Let me just say that getting a DMC-12 built from scratch is very expensive. Electric conversions like this are also definitely not cheap.

Totally understood -- though I doubt anyone would really be judgmental -- we're all friends here! :)

Excited for future updates.

[DavidProehl]

Totally understood -- though I doubt anyone would really be judgmental -- we're all friends here! :)

Excited for future updates.

I'm sure Mario negotiated his own reasonable price, but back in 2012 DMCH announced a $95k price tag. Granted that was with a different electric motor supplier.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/05/delorean-electric-surprises-in-new-york-will-cost-95-000-in-20/

That price doesn't seem out of line considering what other luxury all electrics go for.

[Mario]

No real updates on this, unfortunately. Last Wednesday I was told the doors were almost done and I'd have a couple photos in the next few days, but I haven't gotten anything back yet. So the car is most likely being built, but so far I've got no photo evidence to share with you guys!
I've gotta say, I love DMCH, but communicating with them can be a bit of a pain sometimes. Would it kill 'em to throw a couple photos my way every once in a while for what I'm paying? Hopefully I'll have some more to share soon, but we'll see.

The end of March grows nearer... I hope there won't be any delays. :)

[Mario]

Talked to Stephen, got a couple updates! First, I was mistaken about the projected completion date of the car - end of March is when DMC predicts they will be done building it, not when the whole package will be done. EV West estimates 3-4 weeks for the conversion after that.

Currently, the frame and roof box are being e-coated and powdercoated, so they should last a very, very long time.
I'm also told that many upgraded parts will be installed - if there's a better part for something, it will be put in. Upgraded suspension, too. Once it's finished I'll ask for a list of all upgraded parts for reference.

I also got a video of each of the doors' electrical functions being tested! Here's the passenger door, the driver door is just more of the same:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRMj0o4pyzc

Hopefully we'll be able to see the frame in a week or so. :)

[DavidProehl]

if there's a better part for something, it will be put in.

Because you said this, I'll mention that it looks like they have an OEM door lock solenoid in there rather than upgraded actuators. I never had problems with my solenoids before I replaced them, and I doubt you would either, but I think it is universally agreed that actuators are superior (lighter, less prone to failure). It is possible this video was taken before they had a chance to install an actuator, or maybe you gave them direction not to install them for cost reasons, but thought you may want to know.

Thanks for posting the video! This is going to be an amazing car. Hard to beat all new parts. Keep the updates coming!

[Mario]

Huh, interesting. I guess I'll have to ask for clarification on that statement. And, for the record, I am giving no instructions in regards to cost, they're just putting in whatever they were going to for a new-build car.

[djdogbone]

There's a guy in Vegas that has an electric Delorean. He's working on upgrading the system. Also, he has converted the doors to full size windows that roll down. Pretty awesome.

[Farrar]

There's a guy in Vegas that has an electric Delorean. He's working on upgrading the system. Also, he has converted the doors to full size windows that roll down. Pretty awesome.

Is his name Bob Brandys?

[djdogbone]

yes, it's bob. Really nice guy

[Farrar]

Here's a thread kind of about Bob's full-size windows (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1153-Bob-Brandy-s-fullsize-windows). Last rumored to be a kit in the making, but only for driver's side. Then three years elapsed. OK, back on topic now. Looking forward to seeing progress on this. :)

[Mario]

I've seen Bob Brady's DeLorean, but I did not realize it was electric.

Bad news about the completion date - I either misheard somebody at some point, or somebody gave me wrong information, but the whole car won't be done by the end of March. DMCH predicts they will be done building the roller by the end of March; the electric conversion will take another 3-6 months, according to EV West. Well, I've waited 9 months already, I can wait a few more. Still sucks, though!

[DMCMW Dave]

I've seen Bob Brady's DeLorean, but I did not realize it was electric.
!

Bob has several cars (at least 3 that I know of). One is probably the earliest BTTF replica, one is more or less normal (other than lots of electronic gadgets) and one is fully electric.

[Rich W]

Bob has several cars (at least 3 that I know of). One is probably the earliest BTTF replica, one is more or less normal (other than lots of electronic gadgets) and one is fully electric.

As Dave mentioned, there are 3 that I know of as well. As of last month, this was the Brandys plan for 2015:

- The DeLorean Time Machine Replica (1997) will remain in Vegas this year (not returning to Chicago for the Summer). This has Bob's full-size windows.

- The DeLorean EV will remain in Vegas this year. Battery upgrades (and/or additional banks added) planned for 2015. This has Bob's full-size windows.

- The DeLorean Mac Mini will remain in Chicago. This one has all the E-gadgets Dave mentioned. This one does not have Bob's full-size windows. (yet?)

[PJ Grady Inc.]

Sorry Dave but I'm a fly in your "universal" ointment!!!! I know that actuators are generally more reliable, efficient and lighter than solenoids. I like the lighter aspect best of all being brought up with motocross racing, sports cars, and the Lotus's chairman's Colin Chapman's philosophy of "lighter is better".

In the Delorean application however I find that the available actuators are barely strong enough to do the job and are often incapable of opening a Delorean doorconsistently. If any adjustments, or the door fit, are less than ideal they have trouble opening. They are generally designed for automotive applications using one latch systems with much lighter loads than a DMC door typically places on them.

I've had the DMC solenoids rebuilt with beefier windings, Hi-temp bobbins, and other improvements and have had one failure in about twenty five years with hundreds of them sold. The bad one had been immersed under water for some time! My rebuilts are much more reliable and stronger than stock.

One area where actuators can't compete with solenoids is speed as solenoids work almost instantly whereas most automotive solenoids use a slower screw drive which compounds problems from any uneveness in the dual latch release used in a Delorean door. For these reasons I think solenoids are still superior to actuators in this unique automotive application. Now I'm working on the lightness advantage.

My solenoid rebuilder is also an engineer and a draftsman and we have blueprints for an all new version using a waterproof aluminum housing that will at least partly negate the weight disadvantage. I am considering making these as part of my reintrodution of the first ever door "launch" system that me and "Bobzilla" developed for our own cars in 1999 but never released as a production run. We still have the two working prototypes that we installed in our own cars but somehow the "Millenium bug" got in the way of it's release. We hope to change that soon.
Rob Grady


Because you said this, I'll mention that it looks like they have an OEM door lock solenoid in there rather than upgraded actuators. I never had problems with my solenoids before I replaced them, and I doubt you would either, but I think it is universally agreed that actuators are superior (lighter, less prone to failure). It is possible this video was taken before they had a chance to install an actuator, or maybe you gave them direction not to install them for cost reasons, but thought you may want to know.

Thanks for posting the video! This is going to be an amazing car. Hard to beat all new parts. Keep the updates coming!

[DavidProehl]

Very interesting Rob! Thanks for the heads up, I was not aware of that. I guess it isn't as universal as I expected. I haven't had issues with the actuators unlocking my doors, however the mechanicals in them seem pretty solid (same with those I know that have them installed) so that could be why.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Very interesting Rob! Thanks for the heads up, I was not aware of that. I guess it isn't as universal as I expected. I haven't had issues with the actuators unlocking my doors, however the mechanicals in them seem pretty solid (same with those I know that have them installed) so that could be why.

I've also had no problem with my actuators. I never had to adjust anything other than the new actuator rod. Yes they are slow and will not work with the LockZilla unless you double up on the timing caps in the Zilla.

[Patrick C]

In the Delorean application however I find that the available actuators are barely strong enough to do the job and are often incapable of opening a Delorean doorconsistently. If any adjustments, or the door fit, are less than ideal they have trouble opening.

I'll vouch for this. It took many adjustments, lubrications, etc for me to get my door lock actuators and door launcher actuators to work consistently. I also had to remove the front locking rod completely, otherwise it would spring back and prevent the door from locking. This isn't really a necessary part anyway as the door remains locked with only the rear latch mechanism locking (safety note before someone jumps all over me: both front and rear latches still function, only now the rear latch is the only one that will lock with the lock button.) I feel that they are bulletproof now (famous last words) but I am sure many people would have given up long before I got them adjusted correctly. Rob is on to something with better solenoids.

[Mario]

Well, I guess we'll see if I have problems with the door locks. I can always install upgraded parts later, no big deal!

[Farrar]

I'm confused. Is there an owner named Bob Brady?

[Seabee]

Congrats on your project. Overall I like the electric Delorean, but that original 100k was high. For that price you could buy Tesla's AC components and achieve 200 mile plus range. Converting a typical vehicle to electric DC can be done for 10k providing you do your own labor.

[Shep]

Sorry Dave but I'm a fly in your "universal" ointment!!!! I know that actuators are generally more reliable, efficient and lighter than solenoids. I like the lighter aspect best of all being brought up with motocross racing, sports cars, and the Lotus's chairman's Colin Chapman's philosophy of "lighter is better".

In the Delorean application however I find that the available actuators are barely strong enough to do the job and are often incapable of opening a Delorean doorconsistently. If any adjustments, or the door fit, are less than ideal they have trouble opening. They are generally designed for automotive applications using one latch systems with much lighter loads than a DMC door typically places on them.

I've had the DMC solenoids rebuilt with beefier windings, Hi-temp bobbins, and other improvements and have had one failure in about twenty five years with hundreds of them sold. The bad one had been immersed under water for some time! My rebuilts are much more reliable and stronger than stock.

One area where actuators can't compete with solenoids is speed as solenoids work almost instantly whereas most automotive solenoids use a slower screw drive which compounds problems from any uneveness in the dual latch release used in a Delorean door. For these reasons I think solenoids are still superior to actuators in this unique automotive application. Now I'm working on the lightness advantage.

My solenoid rebuilder is also an engineer and a draftsman and we have blueprints for an all new version using a waterproof aluminum housing that will at least partly negate the weight disadvantage. I am considering making these as part of my reintrodution of the first ever door "launch" system that me and "Bobzilla" developed for our own cars in 1999 but never released as a production run. We still have the two working prototypes that we installed in our own cars but somehow the "Millenium bug" got in the way of it's release. We hope to change that soon.
Rob GradyPlease please please, for the love of all that is holy, make a thread on this! I'd love to get one of your systems -- Wings-A-Loft requires drilling holes, something I'm not fond of doing in an "entirely-reversible modded" D :worship:

[Mario]

Shiny, freshly-coated frame!
Stephen says the build is full steam ahead now that they have all the parts.

http://i.imgur.com/QavDQD5.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/SfWpm1Z.jpg

[Mario]

It's coming along, slowly but surely. Hopefully just a few more weeks now, then it's off to EV West!

http://i.imgur.com/zAraOU5.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/FNWiZP4.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mXLqAHE.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/fd1wk32.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/O4UdXoC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/8S2H8Np.jpg

Still feels weird to me that DeLoreans use wood in them. :)

[DavidProehl]

That is beautiful. Makes me want to tear down my car to the bones to clean it up like that!

[Silverbullet]

A question I have always had with electric cars... is how they do the AC? Also how well does it work, and how much of the battery it kills using it. In a D the AC is really important, mine is always on.

Craig

[Rich W]

A question I have always had with electric cars... is how they do the AC? Also how well does it work, and how much of the battery it kills using it. In a D the AC is really important, mine is always on.

Craig

Several options, from several different manufacturers / suppliers.
Some of these are fully, self contained electric powered AC units.

Vintage Air is one of these aftermarket suppliers.

From Hot Rods to the rear passenger sections of limousines,
there is a market for these compact AC options.

[Farrar]

Still feels weird to me that DeLoreans use wood in them. :)

Wood: the original carbon fiber.

[Chris4099]

A question I have always had with electric cars... is how they do the AC? Also how well does it work, and how much of the battery it kills using it. In a D the AC is really important, mine is always on.

EVs work the same way as most hybrids these days do. There's a dedicated high voltage DC motor attached directly to the compressor. Because the motor speed can be variable, this makes the AC way more efficient then in a gas car which is at the mercy of the engine RPM. So for example in my Tesla, the AC can take up to 6,000 watts at first if it's 100 degrees outside and the car has been sitting in the sun. However, once the interior cools down, it only draws about 500-1000 watts of power. While this may sound like a lot, keep in mind to cruse down the highway at 60MPH, I'm using about 20,000 watts! So while there is an impact to range, it's minor. I could park the car and run AC nonstop for about 3-4 days before I drain the battery. Admittedly the Tesla has a very large battery, but even my Fiat 500e could go about 2 days with its 26kWh battery pack.

Another thing to consider. Hotter days usually means thinner and less dense air. This greatly reduces wind resistance. I actually get better efficiency driving on the freeway on a 90 degree day with AC then I do on a 50 degree day with no heat or AC. Same with high altitudes. My car is faster at 5,000 feet because of less wind resistance while a gas car is slower because it depends on oxygen to run (except for the need of cooling, an EV can run in a vacuum).


Wood: the original carbon fiber.

OK, that made me LOL.

[mluder]

But, Rob, the solenoids only control the lock actuators and have nothing to do with the remote opening systems. Of course those also use actuators but in your comment you seem to be saying only the solenoids are beefy enough to consistently work the dual latch system... referring to the opening (not unlocking) mechanism.

Cheers
Steve


Sorry Dave but I'm a fly in your "universal" ointment!!!! I know that actuators are generally more reliable, efficient and lighter than solenoids. I like the lighter aspect best of all being brought up with motocross racing, sports cars, and the Lotus's chairman's Colin Chapman's philosophy of "lighter is better".

In the Delorean application however I find that the available actuators are barely strong enough to do the job and are often incapable of opening a Delorean doorconsistently. If any adjustments, or the door fit, are less than ideal they have trouble opening. They are generally designed for automotive applications using one latch systems with much lighter loads than a DMC door typically places on them.

I've had the DMC solenoids rebuilt with beefier windings, Hi-temp bobbins, and other improvements and have had one failure in about twenty five years with hundreds of them sold. The bad one had been immersed under water for some time! My rebuilts are much more reliable and stronger than stock.

One area where actuators can't compete with solenoids is speed as solenoids work almost instantly whereas most automotive solenoids use a slower screw drive which compounds problems from any uneveness in the dual latch release used in a Delorean door. For these reasons I think solenoids are still superior to actuators in this unique automotive application. Now I'm working on the lightness advantage.

My solenoid rebuilder is also an engineer and a draftsman and we have blueprints for an all new version using a waterproof aluminum housing that will at least partly negate the weight disadvantage. I am considering making these as part of my reintrodution of the first ever door "launch" system that me and "Bobzilla" developed for our own cars in 1999 but never released as a production run. We still have the two working prototypes that we installed in our own cars but somehow the "Millenium bug" got in the way of it's release. We hope to change that soon.
Rob Grady

[Silverbullet]

[QUOTE=Chris4099;172918]EVs work the same way as most hybrids these days do. There's a dedicated high voltage DC motor attached directly to the compressor. Because the motor speed can be variable, this makes the AC way more efficient then in a gas car which is at the mercy of the engine RPM. So for example in my Tesla, the AC can take up to 6,000 watts at first if it's 100 degrees outside and the car has been sitting in the sun. However, once the interior cools down, it only draws about 500-1000 watts of power. While this may sound like a lot, keep in mind to cruse down the highway at 60MPH, I'm using about 20,000 watts! So while there is an impact to range, it's minor. I could park the car and run AC nonstop for about 3-4 days before I drain the battery. Admittedly the Tesla has a very large battery, but even my Fiat 500e could go about 2 days with its 26kWh battery pack.

Another thing to consider. Hotter days usually means thinner and less dense air. This greatly reduces wind resistance. I actually get better efficiency driving on the freeway on a 90 degree day with AC then I do on a 50 degree day with no heat or AC. Same with high altitudes. My car is faster at 5,000 feet because of less wind resistance while a gas car is slower because it depends on oxygen to run (except for the need of cooling, an EV can run in a vacuum).


Good info.... Thanks,

Craig

[Patrick C]

But, Rob, the solenoids only control the lock actuators and have nothing to do with the remote opening systems.

I think Rob is referring to the remote door opening system that he and Bob Zilla created, which used solenoids instead of actuators.

[ssdelorean]

I've also had no problem with my actuators. I never had to adjust anything other than the new actuator rod. Yes they are slow and will not work with the LockZilla unless you double up on the timing caps in the Zilla.


I think Rob is referring to the remote door opening system that he and Bob Zilla created, which used solenoids instead of actuators.

I have had Toby's actuators integrated with the Zilla door locks and remote key fob for years without any issues. No mods needed. Just had to find the proper connection to plug into the Zilla unit from the actuator wires. Easily found at a computer store.



Wood: the original carbon fiber.

Ha! :-)

[Mario]

Wood: the original carbon fiber.

Hah!

I think Chris is right about the A/C. And yeah, even if it draws a kilowatt, with a 30-35kWh battery you could run the A/C for 30-35 hours! So it will cause a small range decrease, but it shouldn't be too bad.

More photos! The headlights, radio, and speakers have been tested and work.

http://i.imgur.com/kX0eTM5.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Hg8o7Z5.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/nA9MF1z.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/t7JUavG.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/HgIlzR8.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/U738fOM.jpg

[jangell]

Somewhat relatedly, I was trying to find an electric A/C compressor for my conventionally powered DeLorean so that I could cool the car before going on a drive without starting the engine (it's a bit too loud to leave idling in the driveway and bothering my neighbors). My googling suggested that this really only makes sense for electric cars due to the power requirements.

For example, replacing the A/C compressor entirely with an electric one that actually could be powered by a few car batteries would be horribly inefficient (mostly converting mechanical motion to electricity and back to mechanical motion again), and they wouldn't even provide that much cooling. The ones electric cars use require significantly more power than you can reasonably provide from the the electrical system in a gas powered car. I found a site that explains (http://www.revoltev.com/2013/08/02/the-12v-climate-cooling-solution/) the limitations of lower power (<48v) AC compressors pretty well. Vintage Air also talks about why they don't sell electric compressors (http://www.vintageair.com/Tech%20Articles/Electric%20Compressors/Electric%20Compressors.pdf) for conventional vehicles.

The best I can come up with is being able to remotely turn on the blower motor to try to get some of the hotter air out of the car. It would be nice to come up with something more effective, though. I did wonder if an lower power electric compressor could be hooked up inline with the mechanical one, where the electric one could be run over a longer period of time to cool the car down before you turn on the engine, but I'm really not sure how that would work. Oh well.

-- Joe

[DMCMW Dave]

so that I could cool the car before going on a drive without starting the engine (it's a bit too loud to leave idling in the driveway and bothering my neighbors).
-- Joe

Remote Door Launchers.

[jangell]

That works. :) I have them installed, but my weather seals have been so tight that they more just move the doors a little instead of opening them, so I tend to forget that I have them. I'll have to look at that once I get the engine hooked back up again, and the A/C leak taken care of...

Thanks

-- Joe

[Mario]

Glass and roof box installed! (This update is actually a little old, I forgot to update the thread.)

http://i.imgur.com/rxwYW8l.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/zLhqqX3.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/sWAFJdC.jpg

[Ryan S.]

What are those aluminum foil like insulating materials covering center console and rear section? I don't think I have those in my car.

[Farrar]

What are those aluminum foil like insulating materials covering center console and rear section? I don't think I have those in my car.

Sound dampening material. Not OEM.

[Ryan S.]

Thanks
Which brand and can I get them locally or online? I need to replace mine.

[Tomcio]

Thanks
Which brand and can I get them locally or online? I need to replace mine.

It doesn't really matter what brand you use Ryan. As long as it is a good mat and comes from a good manufacturer. I'm using "GMs Acoustic Sound Mats". In my case it is a three layer sandwich with dense bottom layer for low frequencies, alu foil in the middle and closed cell foam on top. I would never use a mat with exposed aluminum layer anywhere in the electrical compartment. A loose wire means sparks and lots of smoke... not for me.
Here's a picture of my rear shelf during the application of the mat. BTW, it comes with adhesive layer so you just remove protective film and stick it on. Very nice and easy to do but I did spend some time to get it around the bends... lots of small pieces in different shapes and sizes did the job.
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=34881&stc=1

My car should be nice and quiet... and the most important thing - that awful smell is finally gone! All that OEM soundproofing foam and glue causes all that smell. I removed every last bit and cleaned it (with solvents) to remove all traces of the old glue.

[Ryan S.]

It doesn't really matter what brand you use Ryan. As long as it is a good mat and comes from a good manufacturer. I'm using "GMs Acoustic Sound Mats". In my case it is a three layer sandwich with dense bottom layer for low frequencies, alu foil in the middle and closed cell foam on top. I would never use a mat with exposed aluminum layer anywhere in the electrical compartment. A loose wire means sparks and lots of smoke... not for me.
Here's a picture of my rear shelf during the application of the mat. BTW, it comes with adhesive layer so you just remove protective film and stick it on. Very nice and easy to do but I did spend some time to get it around the bends... lots of small pieces in different shapes and sizes did the job.
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=34881&stc=1

My car should be nice and quiet... and the most important thing - that awful smell is finally gone! All that OEM soundproofing foam and glue causes all that smell. I removed every last bit and cleaned it (with solvents) to remove all traces of the old glue.

Very nice. Thanks for that info. I have to do mine also.

[mr_maxime]

Why did you go with the 85mph speedo?

[sdg3205]

???? It came with the car. Courtesy of jimmy carter.

[mr_maxime]

I thought he was getting a car built from never used NOS. I figured he would have gone with some of the more modern parts where available.

[Mario]

That's just what they put in. Not sure why.

[sdg3205]

I thought he was getting a car built from never used NOS. I figured he would have gone with some of the more modern parts where available.

Ah gotcha.

[DMCMW Dave]

IMO in real world everyday use the 85 mph speedo makes a lot more sense unless you are worried about impressing the kids at car shows.

[Chris 16409]

I prefer the 85 speedometer. At 45 MPH you're already using half of the dial. I can technically max out the gauge and not be sent to prison, 85 vs 140 mph.

[Mario]

It's got doors! And rear quarter glass. :)

http://i.imgur.com/c6HRtkh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/qdRusA0.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/QTTm5It.jpg

[Chris4099]

Going back to earlier in this thread, I just thought I would post this pic I took yesterday to show how AC power affects range of EVs:
35280
As you can see, the power consumed to run AC on a 94 degree day (temp drop of over 20 degrees) barely registers on the power scale. If I was cruising down the freeway at around 60mph, then I would be around 20kW. Keep in mind it's also cooling a large 4 door sedan. Cooling a D should require even less power.

And yes, the 88 miles remaining was just chance as I took this pic at a stop light. :)

[Timebender]

Ah yes, however a D gets very hot inside faster than most cars - probably due to no paint which can act as a reflector. So even though the cab of a D can cool off faster, maybe, you'd have to keep the AC going constantly to keep it comfy on a 95 degree day, esp if you have a lot of humidity.

[valdez]

I prefer the 85 speedometer. At 45 MPH you're already using half of the dial. I can technically max out the gauge and not be sent to prison, 85 vs 140 mph.
---
Clearly you need a gauge that only goes to 10 mph to avoid all speeding tickets.
DMC should get on that asap! Nobody wants to go to jail and this will save people lots of money by not getting any tickets. I'm doing this to all my cars when I get home!

[Mario]

Frame's pretty much done!

http://i.imgur.com/mpgxzTd.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/NSE4SPy.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ZoMgg8G.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/4QYhwmg.jpg

I hope the gold brake calipers don't show up too much through the wheels. Guess we'll see!

[DavidProehl]

I hope the gold brake calipers don't show up too much through the wheels. Guess we'll see!

I don't think they will. That frame looks great! Is that an original frame or a newly created one? And what is it coated with?

[Mario]

I believe it's an old (but good condition) frame, but it's been e-coated (http://www.metokote.com/coating-technologies/electrocoating/e-coat-process-specifics/#.VbhKNIykq5M) and powder-coated. It's supposed to hold up really well!
It also doesn't really rain or snow much where I live, so this frame should last a long, long time.

[doctordhd]

Are they using stainless steel brake lines?

It didn't look like it.

[Mario]

Body's on the frame! Pretty exciting. :)

http://i.imgur.com/0FttLwG.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/GPbqWTX.jpg

[Nicholas R]

Exciting stuff! Coming along very nicely! I'm digging the dark grey/light grey rim combination. You should run with that :wink:

[Mario]

And the racing slicks on the back there. :)

[Domi]

Once it will be finished, it will be like new :)

[Chris 16409]

Did anyone notice the clutch master cylinder reservoir? Isn't' this going to be electric?

[delgato]

Did anyone notice the clutch master cylinder reservoir? Isn't' this going to be electric?

Well it depends on how the owner wants to set up the car. In a lot of cases you would use the same trans, especially in a Delorean since it is a trans axle. After that you decide if you want a clutch or not. A lot of folks like to keep the clutch in as an extra safety measure in case there is any issue with run away motor or whatever.

[Mario]

I am keeping the clutch and stock manual transmission, though the clutch itself will almost certainly have to be upgraded.
I've ordered one of the bulletproof transmission couplers to install. If I still have problems, maybe I could pester Nick for a one-piece input shaft. If I still have problems then, I'm going to need to think of something else. Maybe a 2-speed from EV West (http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=44&products_id=214&osCsid=m5a7g34gf24dfua7814oc5sg02) with a diff from something else... who knows. I still don't know exactly how much torque will be going in this car, so we'll have to wait and see.

[81dmc]

Have to love that earlier fiberglass body with the air pressure relief holes. Anyways, no more updates?:frown:

[Mario]

Not at the moment! Hopefully soon, though.

[Mario]

Progress is very slow, but it is coming along...

http://i.imgur.com/JVEiFUS.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Acz2V8V.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/YzfyNZP.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/XfjY6FJ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/8awm7o1.jpg

[Mario]

DMCH doesn't have any new stock of LFF's any more, so they're regraining an old one for me:

http://i.imgur.com/V5aqAqv.jpg

[Mario]

It's got a hood now! Although this picture is actually inaccurate - they found a grooved hood for me that they're installing. :) I'm really glad they got one because that was one thing I was really hoping for.

Body panels and fascia are being aligned now, and with luck, it should be ready to be shipped to EV West early next week. The interior is not completely done yet to make it easier to route wires. It'll be finished up after the conversion is done along with suspension adjustment, etc.

http://i.imgur.com/VSExVFT.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WB2Slgw.jpg

[Domi]

It's beautiful :)

[Mario]

All the stainless is on the car at this point and all exterior lighting is installed and working. Everything is LEDs except for the headlights.

http://i.imgur.com/MqVbnau.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/48oEYrA.jpg

Grooved hood! And look at that razor-straight fascia. :)
http://i.imgur.com/sPJPOco.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/V2E2VLc.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/PwnTQFU.jpg

[DL4567]

I agree with Domi. Beautiful! :wow:

[Nicholas R]

Wow those tail lights look awesome! Are those the LED's that come with the new boards?

[bdmiko]

Very nice. Looking forward to seeing what EVWest does with the car. From the pictures and images I have seen it looks like they do some excellent work with electric vehicles.

[Mario]

Wow those tail lights look awesome! Are those the LED's that come with the new boards?

Not sure, to be honest! They seem to be using a lot of their new/reproduction parts, so I'd assume they're new boards (and if those come with LEDs, then yes).

[Mario]

Plans have changed, DMCH is doing the interior right now. And look at the beautiful grain on that hood. :)

http://i.imgur.com/lUK1enO.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mBUkY0F.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/plnSJjQ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/GQJwb4J.jpg

[Riley88]

Holy crap is this thing coming together, it looks AMAZING!

[Mario]

Man, it just looks so much more complete with an interior. It's like a real car now!

http://i.imgur.com/nmGksjU.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ykn20jB.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/akaprf7.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ZhEvv9O.jpg

[Ryan S.]

Just curious. It's has been a year now. When do you think you will be able to drive?

[Mario]

Well, DMCH estimated that they would have their portion of the car done a very long time ago - but they are very near to completing it. I would expect it to be in EV West's hands at the end of the month (knock on wood). After that, EV West said a typical conversion takes 3-6 months. So maybe in another half-year, optimistically, and assuming nothing goes wrong.

[BladeBronson]

Oooh, this looks like good news!

https://www.instagram.com/p/BBimbSeAXBp

[Mario]

You posted it just before I was about to. :)

Here it is before it left DMCH:
http://i.imgur.com/3HgV6CV.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/VzGeqa2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/6rayxwY.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/4sDydKV.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/9PN5gyw.jpg

Not sure how it got so dirty between DMC and Ev West... open transport? :hmm:
EV West says they should be able to start on it in 2-3 weeks.

[BladeBronson]

Soooo nice. I'm really excited for you!

[delgato]

WOW, very cool stuff you have going on there. This is exciting to see happen.


Are you going to take this car to DCS this summer?


So what are your plans for this car? AC or DC? lithium or lead acid? What else are you planning to do?

I plan to do an EV conversion to my car but it will be a home brew set up.

It will be nothing like what EV West does, they seem really good at what their doing.

My plan is for simplicity of function and cost. So DC motor and lead acid.

First thing first, I will need the frame fixed up and the car put back together, details details.



In the second photo is the trans only supported by the two mounts and the axle shafts?

It seems to be sitting low, is that ok to have mounted like that by itself?

[Mario]

Are you going to take this car to DCS this summer?

That's in Ohio, right? Way too far away. :( I'd have to get the car shipped out there. I don't think it's worth the effort to me. I'll gladly go to any meetups within 100 miles of me, though!


So what are your plans for this car? AC or DC? lithium or lead acid? What else are you planning to do?

Either Li-ion or LiFePO4. AC motors so I get regenerative braking. :)
We're thinking of a three-motor setup similar to this Ferrari they recently completed:
https://www.instagram.com/p/76yFGGAXN1/
https://www.instagram.com/p/8NGIX_AXCr/
Puts down about 300hp!


In the second photo is the trans only supported by the two mounts and the axle shafts?

It seems to be sitting low, is that ok to have mounted like that by itself?

Not sure. Maybe DMC put something under it before they shipped it.

[16949]

Not sure how it got so dirty between DMC and Ev West... open transport? :hmm:


Am I the only owner stressed seeing a pic that looks like someone wiped the hood not in a straight line with the grain? :8ball:

[Mario]

Some small updates.
EV West has had the car for a little while now and we've had a few phone calls to talk about specifications and how things are going to go together.

DeLoreans don't have a whole lot of extra space for things like batteries, so it's been a bit of a challenge finding space for them.
They are using Tesla battery modules. A Tesla battery pack is made up of a whole lot of smaller battery modules. Each module is about 3kWh each, and EV West has found space for 14 modules, giving 42kWh of batteries.
Six modules will go under/in the frunk. They're getting rid of the stock A/C condenser and fitting a smaller one so they can fit the modules there. A few will also be put in the actual frunk space, but I will still be able to keep most of the usable space.
Six will go in the passenger compartment behind the seats, and two will be against the firewall in the engine bay.
It would be nice, of course, if there weren't batteries in the frunk or passenger area, but there is very little extra space in a DeLorean so it's a necessary compromise to get the range I wanted. The car should be able to go around 140 miles on a charge.

They will be including an A/C compressor. I've never driven a DeLorean, but the wisdom of the community says A/C is necessary in these cars, so in it goes! It will have heating as well.

The original plan was to have dual AC-51's (http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=8&products_id=172&osCsid=3p6imk4v40tblu8bl36dd4t7b7), giving around 180HP peak. However, EV West is going to be testing some new motors soon that should pack quite a punch, and with two of those we just might be able to crack 300HP. We'll see how the dyno run goes. :)

In other news, insuring a custom-drivetrain, high-performance classic car at a reasonable price is nigh-impossible as a young male... it's gonna be just like normal DeLorean ownership, even after you've bought it you're still paying thousands a year to keep driving the thing. :P

[Chris4099]

Wow, 42kWh of capacity is a lot! You'll have more capacity/range then any other non-Tesla EV out there! I'm just surprised they couldn't fit more in the engine compartment since electric motors are usually a lot smaller then gas engines. Did they not want to put some sort of mounting system above the motor that would allow for battery removal for maintenance? Regardless, I'm really looking forward to seeing pics of this install!

[Michael]

Very interesting. I would be first to say screw the trunk space...just give me the power and range!

[Timebender]

In other news, insuring a custom-drivetrain, high-performance classic car at a reasonable price is nigh-impossible as a young male... it's gonna be just like normal DeLorean ownership, even after you've bought it you're still paying thousands a year to keep driving the thing. :P

If you're at least 25, I'd suggest looking into classic car insurance that allows unlimited miles, and costs about $150 a year...

[Peripatetic]

I was curious what a Tesla module looked like and found some links (images uploaded as well for you lazier folk).

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/pics-info-inside-the-battery-pack.34934/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/pics-info-inside-the-battery-pack.34934/page-25

140 miles is pretty great, though. I think the Nissan Leaf caps at 85 miles and there's a Ford something with 60 miles I think? My former boss' daughter has an early 60 mile Model S.

[Mario]

Wow, 42kWh of capacity is a lot! You'll have more capacity/range then any other non-Tesla EV out there! I'm just surprised they couldn't fit more in the engine compartment since electric motors are usually a lot smaller then gas engines. Did they not want to put some sort of mounting system above the motor that would allow for battery removal for maintenance? Regardless, I'm really looking forward to seeing pics of this install!

These modules are fairly long (about 39 inches), so I don't think they could fit on the sides running parallel to the length of the car. And I don't think they'd fit above the motors - they're actually going to be fairly tall because there will be two stacked on top of each other.


If you're at least 25, I'd suggest looking into classic car insurance that allows unlimited miles, and costs about $150 a year...

22, unfortunately. :( That's why it's so difficult.


I was curious what a Tesla module looked like and found some links (images uploaded as well for you lazier folk).

I think that might be a slightly different/older model. Here's what they're going to be putting in:
http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=4&products_id=329&osCsid=mp85ji61k46qlkc63b12pmnb77

[RamblinDMC]

I'll be 21 in July, I guess that makes us some of the youngest DeLorean owners here on DMCTalk. :thumbup:
Congrats on the progress of your DMC EV project!



These modules are fairly long (about 39 inches), so I don't think they could fit on the sides running parallel to the length of the car. And I don't think they'd fit above the motors - they're actually going to be fairly tall because there will be two stacked on top of each other.



22, unfortunately. :( That's why it's so difficult.



I think that might be a slightly different/older model. Here's what they're going to be putting in:
http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=4&products_id=329&osCsid=mp85ji61k46qlkc63b12pmnb77

[Bitsyncmaster]

So it looks like your battery packs still loose about 25% capacity after 500 charge/discharge cycles. So if your range was 200 miles a charge (like the Tesla) you would expect to need replacing the battery packs around 100,000 miles.

I'm still waiting for better battery packs to ever see the EV cars starting to replace gas engines cars.

[DrJeff]

I've looked at those EVWest "Tesla" modules before - but I have yet to find any evidence that they actually come from a Tesla. The larger Tesla battery modules (large flat modules (http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/262333679871?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true)) are from the Model S and X - and are the current standard modules from Tesla. Best case the EVWest modules are from a Roadster (but I also can't find any Roadster battery modules that look like these - not many Roadsters out there, so unsure where a good supply of batteries would come from).

I'm wondering if these are "Tesla-like" batteries in that they are composed of 18650s, but not batteries that actually lived in a Tesla vehicle. Also all true Tesla batteries are going to be used (most likely from a salvaged vehicle). This company (AutoBahn (http://www.autobahnparts.com/carlisting.aspx?make=top20&Page=0)) - also in San Diego - dismantles cars and lists these (or has listed these modules on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lithium-Ion-Battery-18650-EV-Module-57-Volt-3kWh-Solar-Power-Storage-EV-/252144461952)) - note the same text and specs as the EVWest modules.

I would do a little more digging - there are only really two critical components to an EV - the motor/controller and the batteries.

Jeff

[Chris4099]

So it looks like your battery packs still loose about 25% capacity after 500 charge/discharge cycles. So if your range was 200 miles a charge (like the Tesla) you would expect to need replacing the battery packs around 100,000 miles.

How are you coming to this conclusion? The web site linked to says after 100,000 miles, they should lose about 15% capacity. Assuming his D ends up with an initial 140 mile range, that means after 100,000 miles, he'll have about 119 miles of range. That's still more then pretty much any new non-Tesla EV and very usable. Remember most driving (particularly with the longer range batteries), have much shorter charge/discharge cycles which don't hurt capacity nearly as much. Average US driver does about 40 miles a day which is just a fraction of a full charge/discharge.



These modules are fairly long (about 39 inches), so I don't think they could fit on the sides running parallel to the length of the car. And I don't think they'd fit above the motors - they're actually going to be fairly tall because there will be two stacked on top of each other.

I see. I was picturing the newer modules in the S/X which aren't as long. I can see how those modules would be difficult to put in the back and how you are able to put so many in the passenger compartment. I think those are the modules used in the Mercedes, Smart and Toyota EVs where Tesla provided the battery/motor system.

[DrJeff]

...I think those are the modules used in the Mercedes, Smart and Toyota EVs where Tesla provided the battery/motor system.

Here's a dimensions diagram (http://evwest.com/support/Smart%20Tesla%20Module%202015.PDF)for the modules. Listed as "Smart Tesla Module 2015".

Some interesting discussion in the comments attached to this article (http://insideevs.com/third-generation-smart-fortwo-electric-drive-begins-us-rollout-us-cheapest-ev-has-officially-arrived/). Look at the comments starting with David Murray's question about Tesla and Smart.

Additional information here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_electric_drive) (search for Tesla).

[Bitsyncmaster]

How are you coming to this conclusion? The web site linked to says after 100,000 miles, they should lose about 15% capacity. Assuming his D ends up with an initial 140 mile range, that means after 100,000 miles, he'll have about 119 miles of range. That's still more then pretty much any new non-Tesla EV and very usable. Remember most driving (particularly with the longer range batteries), have much shorter charge/discharge cycles which don't hurt capacity nearly as much. Average US driver does about 40 miles a day which is just a fraction of a full charge/discharge.

Look at the data sheet of the battery. It has a graph of battery capacity with charge cycle numbers.

[Chris4099]

Look at the data sheet of the battery. It has a graph of battery capacity with charge cycle numbers.

OK, so you are assuming those with 200 mile EVs drive from 100% to 0% (of usable charge) before recharging. You also assume that once it's lost that 20%, it has to be replaced. Neither of these are common in normal EV use. I just wanted to point this out in case somebody thought the batteries actually have to be replaced after 100k miles. Most EVs will be able to use their original battery pack long after 100k miles. This is accomplished by the fact EVs usually don't let you fully charge to 100% and discharge to 0% (this decreases capacity drop by several magnitudes). Also most drivers charge the car at home while they sleep, which prevents the car from getting heavily discharged in the first place. In my case, after over 42k miles so far, I've only done a near full charge cycle a handful of times due to road trips and have approximately 5% capacity loss. I think age will be a greater factor in capacity loss then mileage. Even then, I have to lose close to 25% before it becomes a problem for some road trips and >60% daily driving (this is with my 200 mile Tesla with 60kWh battery pack).

[Bitsyncmaster]

OK, so you are assuming those with 200 mile EVs drive from 100% to 0% (of usable charge) before recharging. You also assume that once it's lost that 20%, it has to be replaced. Neither of these are common in normal EV use. I just wanted to point this out in case somebody thought the batteries actually have to be replaced after 100k miles. Most EVs will be able to use their original battery pack long after 100k miles. This is accomplished by the fact EVs usually don't let you fully charge to 100% and discharge to 0% (this decreases capacity drop by several magnitudes). Also most drivers charge the car at home while they sleep, which prevents the car from getting heavily discharged in the first place. In my case, after over 42k miles so far, I've only done a near full charge cycle a handful of times due to road trips and have approximately 5% capacity loss. I think age will be a greater factor in capacity loss then mileage. Even then, I have to lose close to 25% before it becomes a problem for some road trips and >60% daily driving (this is with my 200 mile Tesla with 60kWh battery pack).

Your correct the batteries will last a lot longer if you don't depend on that max range. And it's a good question as to what state of charge will loose how much capacity. Maybe if you never let the batteries get below 50% there is no degrading. Maybe also the degrading gets less and less after that 500 "charge" number. I've never seen charts go above that number.

[Chris4099]

Ya, most battery manufacturers seem to list battery life ending once it reaches 80% capacity. I guess that's considered a standard in that industry even though it doesn't necessary mean it's useless in most applications. Also, most charts I've seen do show the most degradation happening early on with the rate decreasing over later cycles. That's why I think age will be a bigger factor with the battery life on EVs. Temperature is also a very large factor into life span. But with active cooling, most of that can be managed. Leafs are the most popular EV that lack this which is why they seem to have more of a capacity loss issue in hotter climates versus cooler ones.

To get back on track of this thread, I'm looking forward to seeing how EV West does cooling on the batteries. I'm wondering if they involve the AC compressor or just a more passive system with the coolant going to the radiator only. I may have to bug Mario for a visit the next time I'm in the bay area. :)

[mr_maxime]

Out of curiosity, how many battery packs could have been able to fit where the transmission is?

[Mario]

I've looked at those EVWest "Tesla" modules before - but I have yet to find any evidence that they actually come from a Tesla. The larger Tesla battery modules (large flat modules (http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/262333679871?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true)) are from the Model S and X - and are the current standard modules from Tesla. Best case the EVWest modules are from a Roadster (but I also can't find any Roadster battery modules that look like these - not many Roadsters out there, so unsure where a good supply of batteries would come from).

I'm wondering if these are "Tesla-like" batteries in that they are composed of 18650s, but not batteries that actually lived in a Tesla vehicle. Also all true Tesla batteries are going to be used (most likely from a salvaged vehicle). This company (AutoBahn (http://www.autobahnparts.com/carlisting.aspx?make=top20&Page=0)) - also in San Diego - dismantles cars and lists these (or has listed these modules on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lithium-Ion-Battery-18650-EV-Module-57-Volt-3kWh-Solar-Power-Storage-EV-/252144461952)) - note the same text and specs as the EVWest modules.

I would do a little more digging - there are only really two critical components to an EV - the motor/controller and the batteries.

Jeff

So I did some research and it looks like you are right and I was slightly mistaken. I was confused because EV West just calls these "Tesla modules" (verbally, anyway).

These particular modules appear to be from electric Smart cars. The actual cells, however, ARE made by Tesla. The modules are not, the cells are.
You can skip around these videos a little if you want to see more:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZzoxRCxZ_8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj8-puOI0C8

They have used them in several cars before, and they are high-performance, so no worries there, at least.


Out of curiosity, how many battery packs could have been able to fit where the transmission is?

Not really sure, to be honest. Probably not many because the frame's "Y" would get in the way very quickly. And you still need a differential and halfshafts, so those will always be in the way.

[Mario]

One more correction (since you can't edit posts after a few minutes) - the cells and the modules are both made by Tesla. This particular kind is just not used in Tesla vehicles.

[Bitsyncmaster]

One more correction (since you can't edit posts after a few minutes) - the cells and the modules are both made by Tesla. This particular kind is just not used in Tesla vehicles.

Does Tesla really make their own cells?

[jangell]

They do indeed. They built a whole factory just for batteries:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigafactory_1
https://www.teslamotors.com/gigafactory

I'm fairly certain they make the individual cells as well as bundling them up into batteries, but the description in those links doesn't make that totally clear.

-- Joe

[Bitsyncmaster]

They do indeed. They built a whole factory just for batteries:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigafactory_1
https://www.teslamotors.com/gigafactory

I'm fairly certain they make the individual cells as well as bundling them up into batteries, but the description in those links doesn't make that totally clear.

-- Joe


Looks like Panasonic has joined with Tesla in that new battery plant.

In July 2014, it was announced that Panasonic had reached a basic agreement with Tesla Motors to invest in the factory.[11][12] Panasonic will lead the battery cell production portion of the manufacturing, and Tesla Motors CEO Elon Musk has indicated that the total Panasonic investment would be US$1.5–2 billion.[13] In early 2016 Panasonic president Kazuhiro Tsuga confirmed a planned total investment of c. $1.6 billion by the company to construct the factory to full capacity.[14]

[Chris4099]

The cells in all Tesla EVs and their partners were made by Panasonic in Japan (I think Samsung is now a provider or at least a backup). However, the cells have a Tesla specific formulation. So you can't buy them off the shelf from Panasonic. They are supposed to give the best balance of life and performance in EV applications.

However as Joe mentioned, they are building the "Gigafactory" near Reno, NV. This factory is being built in partnership with Panasonic and once fully online will make Tesla the biggest producer of lithium batteries in the world. It's been built enough so they are now assembling Powerwalls, but battery cells won't start until the end of this year. By 2020, they will be fully built out and at full capacity. Details here:
http://www.thecountrycaller.com/67764-tesla-motors-inc-nasdq-tsla-denies-gigafactory-construction-production-delays/

[Mario]

Car projects take forever...

So here's what's been going on. Biggest holdup has been finding the right motor setup. From the beginning, I could have gone with dual AC-51's from the beginning, which definitely would have been respectable (180HP, 220ft/lb or so), but I was hoping for something more. So we've been looking at other options.
One option was a prototype motor from an EV company. Unfortunately, it dyno'd at less than we were hoping for and the gains would have been incremental. Not really worth the price vs power increase.
Another option would be this AM Racing (http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=8&products_id=297&osCsid=4e112cef5f98r46t8vsd2l6q42) motor, 210HP and 280ft/lb. Better than the prototype motor, but still not quite what I was hoping for. They also make that motor in a dual-stack version with double the HP and torque... but it would be very expensive ($18k just for the motor, probably another $15k for the two controllers at least). I could pay it if it were the last option, but EV West wants to find me something cheaper. The other problem would be the transmission at that point - 560ft/lb is quite a lot. I don't foresee Nick selling his one-piece input shafts anytime soon, so I would have only the upgraded input shaft coupler to go by... not very promising for transmission longevity.

So... current plan is a Tesla Model S Performance drivetrain. 416HP, 443ft/lb. :) Unfortunately, it would mean getting rid of the manual transmission, which I was fond of. But I'm willing to sacrifice it for better power and reliability.
We have a motor purchased, should be arriving soon. The biggest unknown is if it'll fit in the car. I'll keep you guys updated.

In other news, we may be getting batteries that are capable of higher discharge rates and actually have a slightly better form factor for this car, so that's good. We won't be able to fit more cells, but it'll be able to dump a bit more power.

That's what's been going on; it's not dead, just crawling along. These sorts of things take a lot of time sometimes.
Well, I've been waiting for more than 2.5 years, I can wait a little longer. It's gonna be an awesome car when it's finished!

[delgato]

I was chatting with DPI Josh about the transmission shaft issue.

I am concerned about this as well.

If I recall correctly he has a solution.

It would be worth a call to him at least.

[BLWNAWY]

as part of my reintrodution of the first ever door "launch" system that me and "Bobzilla" developed for our own cars in 1999 but never released as a production run. We still have the two working prototypes that we installed in our own cars but somehow the "Millenium bug" got in the way of it's release. We hope to change that soon.
Rob Grady

Sorry to resurrect this year-old comment but I just now saw it, and for posterity (and old times) just couldn't let it slide. The "first ever door launch system" was installed in 2 of my cars prior to 1995 and was successfully marketed before then, too. I also know that some individuals like PNDC's Gary Hull designed and installed their own door opening kits way prior to 1999. My initial design has subsequently been updated by DeLorean Parts Northwest and between us dozens, maybe hundreds, of kits have been sold over the last 22+ years with very few problems. As you noted the Grady/Zilla kits were never marketed, for good reason I assume. I also pioneered kits to replace the door lock solenoids with actuators, and I believe Toby also still markets those. With modern actuators they work quite well and save considerable weight. Even new solenoids with aluminum housings will still need heavy steel cores/pistons/whatever they are called. As you know, neither solenoids nor actuators will open doors that are not properly adjusted.

Yes I'm back, Rob, but only as an owner this time, not a competitor. I'm not interested in renewing old "door opener" arguments from 15+ years ago, but please, give credit where credit is due. You know I'm too outspoken and ornery to let that "first ever" line pass.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Sorry to resurrect this year-old comment but I just now saw it, and for posterity (and old times) just couldn't let it slide. The "first ever door launch system" was installed in 2 of my cars prior to 1995 and was successfully marketed before then, too. I also know that some individuals like PNDC's Gary Hull designed and installed their own door opening kits way prior to 1999. My initial design has subsequently been updated by DeLorean Parts Northwest and between us dozens, maybe hundreds, of kits have been sold over the last 22+ years with very few problems. As you noted the Grady/Zilla kits were never marketed, for good reason I assume. I also pioneered kits to replace the door lock solenoids with actuators, and I believe Toby also still markets those. With modern actuators they work quite well and save considerable weight. Even new solenoids with aluminum housings will still need heavy steel cores/pistons/whatever they are called. As you know, neither solenoids nor actuators will open doors that are not properly adjusted.

Yes I'm back, Rob, but only as an owner this time, not a competitor. I'm not interested in renewing old "door opener" arguments from 15+ years ago, but please, give credit where credit is due. You know I'm too outspoken and ornery to let that "first ever" line pass.

The problem was the Zilla unit had to short of a power pulse and would not give the actuators time to move fully.

[Ryan S.]

Car projects take forever...

That's what's been going on; it's not dead, just crawling along. These sorts of things take a lot of time sometimes.
Well, I've been waiting for more than 2.5 years, I can wait a little longer. It's gonna be an awesome car when it's finished!

Any updates?

[Mario]

Not much. We've got the Tesla motor and it looks like it should fit, though modifications to the frame might be necessary.

The holdup at the moment is waiting on the custom control PCB for it. People have controlled Tesla motors before, but by spoofing the CAN bus signals, which isn't ideal. We're using a PCB that replaces all the brains so we can drive it directly. It's been taking some time, though.

[knightjp]

What is the update with this project?

[Nicholas R]

Good lord, I had forgotten all about this project. Is it still in process? I think we're past 3.5 years now. Hope to get an update that it's still moving. It was an ambitious project but will be a shame if it's cancelled.

[Mario]

Oh man, I didn't realize it'd been so long since I've even logged in to the forums. This is the first time I saw those messages!

So the good news, straight off the bat, is that the project isn't cancelled and it's still coming along.

After this post:
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?11244-Electric-DeLorean&p=208810&viewfull=1#post208810
The control board was finally eventually finished and the motor works. Bad news is that it doesn't fit, so a portion of the rear frame needed to be cut out and remade from scratch to fit the motor. We found a really good fabricator to do this, and we just had to wait a while for him to finish up some other customer projects and he would do my car. Before we got to that point though, he ended up getting a divorce and so had to drop his work for a while. That gets all wrapped up but now he has to move shops. He was supposed to contact us after that was done but a couple months go by and we just can't get ahold of him.

So that plan was out. By this time, the smaller Tesla drive units had also had a control board developed for them. These put out about 330HP and are small enough to fit in the back with no frame modifications. So as of about a month ago, the plan is to go with one of those units. EV West is finishing up their current project then will start on mine.

I'm slightly bummed to "settle" for "only" 330HP instead of the originally-planned 420HP, but to be honest, 330 will be more than enough for me and I know I'll enjoy it very much.

At this point I've sort of just put it away in the back of my mind with a "it'll be done when it's done" attitude, heh. Which is why I totally forgot about this forum as well.
In the meantime, 2 years ago I picked up a very nice (gas-powered) DeLorean from a fellow in NorCal, planning to sell it once the electric one is finished. It's been a pleasure to drive, and after fixing a loose coolant hose, bad rad cap, and bad otterstat, has given me zero issues whatsoever. So at least I have that!

Watch this space in the coming months, there may be news before too long.

[mr_maxime]

I was looking at a tesla motor for my swap but decided against it due to the cost. Nice to know it wouldnt have fit anyways.

Any idea what they are doing for hvac, vacuum pump? What about parking? Will you just have the ebrake?

[DrJeff]

Check out the Audi Tesla (search YouTube for Audi Tesla). That conversion split the large Tesla drive unit into its three components, motor, reduction gear/differential, and inverter. The gears are discarded, but the motor and inverter are kept. The motor - with some interface plate machining - is fitted to the stock gear box. The inverter sits to the side only connected to the motor via high voltage cabling, coolant lines, and low voltage motor position detection lines.

The large drive unit was never going to fit as packaged without removing the back V-frame and engine cradle of the DeLorean. Creating a new rear frame section is not just a fabrication challenge it is a significant engineering challenge. EVWest would have known all this (the non-fit of the Tesla large drive unit and the complexity of re-engineering the rear frame) from the beginning and need to get real with you.

Jeff

[Mario]

I was looking at a tesla motor for my swap but decided against it due to the cost. Nice to know it wouldnt have fit anyways.

Any idea what they are doing for hvac, vacuum pump? What about parking? Will you just have the ebrake?

Probably just keeping the stock ebrake. Maybe we'll add something more, I never found that brake to be super great.
For A/C we're looking at a standalone electric A/C compressor module, and similar for the vacuum pump.


Check out the Audi Tesla (search YouTube for Audi Tesla). That conversion split the large Tesla drive unit into its three components, motor, reduction gear/differential, and inverter. The gears are discarded, but the motor and inverter are kept. The motor - with some interface plate machining - is fitted to the stock gear box. The inverter sits to the side only connected to the motor via high voltage cabling, coolant lines, and low voltage motor position detection lines.

The large drive unit was never going to fit as packaged without removing the back V-frame and engine cradle of the DeLorean. Creating a new rear frame section is not just a fabrication challenge it is a significant engineering challenge. EVWest would have known all this (the non-fit of the Tesla large drive unit and the complexity of re-engineering the rear frame) from the beginning and need to get real with you.

Jeff

Yeah, I've seen people doing that recently, taking apart the motor. It's a good idea! I don't know if we'll do it, though. I always felt 420HP would be a bit much for me to handle, anyway.

And yes, we are well aware that redoing part of the frame is an involved task. The person we were going to have do it has experience in doing that very sort of thing, which is why we didn't just move to another fabricator when we couldn't contact him anymore (because we couldn't find others with that kind of experience).

[DMC5180]

Probably just keeping the stock ebrake. Maybe we'll add something more, I never found that brake to be super great.
For A/C we're looking at a standalone electric A/C compressor module, and similar for the vacuum pump.



Yeah, I've seen people doing that recently, taking apart the motor. It's a good idea! I don't know if we'll do it, though. I always felt 420HP would be a bit much for me to handle, anyway.

And yes, we are well aware that redoing part of the frame is an involved task. The person we were going to have do it has experience in doing that very sort of thing, which is why we didn't just move to another fabricator when we couldn't contact him anymore (because we couldn't find others with that kind of experience).


Apparently someone else has ambitions of taking on a EV conversion using a model 3 Drivetrain.

https://youtu.be/omXq-6LbV6M

[mr_maxime]

Apparently someone else has ambitions of taking on a EV conversion using a model 3 Drivetrain.

https://youtu.be/omXq-6LbV6M

My neighbor told me about Rich Rebuilds when he saw me working on my car. Never seen any of his videos til now

[Chris4099]

Mario, I assume this is your D in the recent Fully Charged visit to EV West?


https://youtu.be/mOx5uCufB2Q?t=728

It will be cool if they end up developing a bolt-on DeLorean conversion kit out of this. Over time as battery prices drop and there are even more used Tesla drive units out there, this would be a serious consideration of mine. At least for now the ICE is still going strong on mine, but if it suffers a catastrophic failure, I hope a bolt-on conversion will be a replacement option!

[Mario]

Mario, I assume this is your D in the recent Fully Charged visit to EV West?


https://youtu.be/mOx5uCufB2Q?t=728

It will be cool if they end up developing a bolt-on DeLorean conversion kit out of this. Over time as battery prices drop and there are even more used Tesla drive units out there, this would be a serious consideration of mine. At least for now the ICE is still going strong on mine, but if it suffers a catastrophic failure, I hope a bolt-on conversion will be a replacement option!

It is, yes! Poor thing's all dusty, been sitting there for years... fun to see it on video, though. :)
I don't know if there will be enough demand for DeLorean conversions to justify them making a kit, but who knows! At the very least, I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for them to convert another after this one is done.

[DMC5180]

Rich Rebuilds also did a recent video at EVWEST. They show the Delorean in that one Too.

[mr_maxime]

Just saw it. Man it's exciting. The evwest conversion kits are definitely on the more expensive end. I've been completely sold on the ev conversion for a while now and I think it's only going to get better overtime. Grahams ev delorean with a 300kw inverter and leaf motor is 100lbs than stock with 50/50 weight distribution. There are just so many benefits to the ev conversion over any engine swaps.

I've been sidetracked by trying to get a digital dash but I need to get back to working on my actual conversion.

[BladeBronson]

There are just so many benefits to the ev conversion over any engine swaps.

But every idiot I run into tells me that I "need to LS swap that thing". Seriously, it's always that exact same line.

[mr_maxime]

But every idiot I run into tells me that I "need to LS swap that thing". Seriously, it's always that exact same line.

While it is a lot of power, an ls swap will add at least 100lbs to the rear and you're still stuck with the un1 gearbox that can't fully handle all the power from the ls. Plus its really crammed in there. Ev conversion has a bit more flexibility if you're just using a reduction gear without the stock gearbox.

[mr_maxime]

I think evwest would find that making the 3d scan of the engine bay would be really desirable for any delorean owner.

[CyberBill]

To help the thread, I have been following RichRebuilds for a while and some other electric vehicle channels on YouTube. I believe this is OP's Delorean:

https://youtu.be/SdMc4ttzd4s?t=242

(Link should take you to the 4:00 mark in a video at EV West, talking about an EV conversion Delorean, and how it has essentially zero miles)

One of the other channels was Fully Charged, and they show OP's Delorean here:

https://youtu.be/mOx5uCufB2Q?t=720

[Nicholas R]

While it is a lot of power, an ls swap will add at least 100lbs to the rear and you're still stuck with the un1 gearbox that can't fully handle all the power from the ls. Plus its really crammed in there. Ev conversion has a bit more flexibility if you're just using a reduction gear without the stock gearbox.

Is this based on your experience LS swapping DeLoreans?

Also, how many EV swaps add less than 100lbs worth of batteries?

[mr_maxime]

I was certain you told me about the LS1 swap adding about 100lbs a while back.

Ive got a leaf motor and inverter which weigh 180lbs and 30lbs respectively. the batteries, which I don't have yet, will weigh about 400lbs for a total weight of 610lbs. I think I read the prv and un1 weigh about 700lbs when I was reading on how to pull them out. That roughly works out with gotgrahams car being 100lbs lighter than stock using the leaf motor and batteries.

[gotgraham]

I was certain you told me about the LS1 swap adding about 100lbs a while back.

Ive got a leaf motor and inverter which weigh 180lbs and 30lbs respectively. the batteries, which I don't have yet, will weigh about 400lbs for a total weight of 610lbs. I think I read the prv and un1 weigh about 700lbs when I was reading on how to pull them out. That roughly works out with gotgrahams car being 100lbs lighter than stock using the leaf motor and batteries.

Yeah I'll confirm the full EV conversion is a good 100 lbs lighter than the PRV setup.

https://i.imgur.com/V4AesG8.jpg?1

[cbateman]

Sorry if I've missed it, but was there ever any prices listed in this thread? How much is a newly assembled, engine-less Delorean from Houston? How much is a conversion from EV West? I'd love to know!

[Casey_S]

Apparently someone else has ambitions of taking on a EV conversion using a model 3 Drivetrain.

https://youtu.be/omXq-6LbV6M

Oh hey, that's me :cowboy:

[mr_maxime]

Maybe I missed it, but how are you doing the heating jn this car? I know ev west sells an electric heater but I don't know if it'll fit.

I plan on adding seat warmers in my car since it's the most efficient method of warming up, but I still need something to defrost the windshield

[CyberBill]

Wow, time flies.

Any update on the build? Looks like it's been almost 18 months since the last update. I haven't seen the DeLorean in any recent videos from EV West - maybe it's done?

[Mario]

Done? As if. :/

The short story of this saga is that in the beginning there were a lot of weird circumstances waiting for new motor tech, but we eventually arrived at using a Tesla small drive unit, at the beginning of 2020. After the motor selection, work could finally start, because the motor determines how much and what kind of batteries you need, where there is space for them to go, where wiring should go, etc, etc. Great, so work can start, right?

Maybe there's been work done, but I haven't heard much about it. The person who is supposed to communicate with me about the state of the project just straight-up doesn't. I haven't gotten en email from him in a year. Sometimes I can get him on the line when I call him, he says he'll send an email with pictures but nothing ever comes.
The last real update I've gotten was Feb 2021, where I got a picture of the motor mounted in the car and the two battery boxes assembled. I got a friend who was local to them to go look in person in July 2021, the photos he sent me showed it in the same state as then.

Several calls to the office since then but rarely can I get my rep to pick up. Have left messages in the past but my calls are never returned.

I just finished sending an upset email to their sales team asking what the deal is and if I could get literally anybody else to communicate with me about the project.
Their youtube channel also appears to show several cars they've converted since 2020, so I have no idea why the one that's been in their garage for 5 years isn't the number one priority. (It also shows a video of my car in Sep 2020! Which they also didn't send to me, I only got to watch it because a friend saw it)
I threatened to haul my car away and find somebody else to finish this project if I can't get somebody to keep me updated.

I'm not most upset it's taking a long time, I'm mainly mad at the awful communication.
EV West - never again. Their workmanship seems to be great and I'm sure my car will be great too when it's done, but my experience as a customer has been awful.

[Josh]

Done? As if. :/

The short story of this saga is that in the beginning there were a lot of weird circumstances waiting for new motor tech, but we eventually arrived at using a Tesla small drive unit, at the beginning of 2020. After the motor selection, work could finally start, because the motor determines how much and what kind of batteries you need, where there is space for them to go, where wiring should go, etc, etc. Great, so work can start, right?

Maybe there's been work done, but I haven't heard much about it. The person who is supposed to communicate with me about the state of the project just straight-up doesn't. I haven't gotten en email from him in a year. Sometimes I can get him on the line when I call him, he says he'll send an email with pictures but nothing ever comes.
The last real update I've gotten was Feb 2021, where I got a picture of the motor mounted in the car and the two battery boxes assembled. I got a friend who was local to them to go look in person in July 2021, the photos he sent me showed it in the same state as then.

Several calls to the office since then but rarely can I get my rep to pick up. Have left messages in the past but my calls are never returned.

I just finished sending an upset email to their sales team asking what the deal is and if I could get literally anybody else to communicate with me about the project.
Their youtube channel also appears to show several cars they've converted since 2020, so I have no idea why the one that's been in their garage for 5 years isn't the number one priority. (It also shows a video of my car in Sep 2020! Which they also didn't send to me, I only got to watch it because a friend saw it)
I threatened to haul my car away and find somebody else to finish this project if I can't get somebody to keep me updated.

I'm not most upset it's taking a long time, I'm mainly mad at the awful communication.
EV West - never again. Their workmanship seems to be great and I'm sure my car will be great too when it's done, but my experience as a customer has been awful.

This is just awful, im sorry to hear this. that is a long time to have your car gone.

[Helirich]

This is just awful, im sorry to hear this. that is a long time to have your car gone.

This!

Did they give you a quote of time when you gave them the project? I suppose they could say the COVID nonsense delayed them a year, but it’s hard to believe they keep this project that long with no explanation. I would go there and tell them you want a time quote now or take the car.

[Mario]

This!

Did they give you a quote of time when you gave them the project? I suppose they could say the COVID nonsense delayed them a year, but it’s hard to believe they keep this project that long with no explanation. I would go there and tell them you want a time quote now or take the car.

Way back when we were first discussing the project, they said a typical conversion took them about 6 months, but mine might take a bit longer.

[Jpalatinus]

Way back when we were first discussing the project, they said a typical conversion took them about 6 months, but mine might take a bit longer.

I am so glad you posted this, i had been following your posts and I was actually talking to ev west last week about sending me a kit for converting a delorean they said sure i would just need to make the motor mounts drive shafts and battery box and the lead time would be 3 months. I asked them if they has cad drawings for motor mounts and they told me someone quit and took all their cad drawings but they could send me photos of presumably your car.

[Mario]

I am so glad you posted this, i had been following your posts and I was actually talking to ev west last week about sending me a kit for converting a delorean they said sure i would just need to make the motor mounts drive shafts and battery box and the lead time would be 3 months. I asked them if they has cad drawings for motor mounts and they told me someone quit and took all their cad drawings but they could send me photos of presumably your car.

They lost the CAD?? Wow... I guess photos are all you're gonna get, sadly.

Speaking of, here's a few of recent progress.

68186 68185 68187 68188 68189

[Josh]

They lost the CAD?? Wow... I guess photos are all you're gonna get, sadly.

Speaking of, here's a few of recent progress.

68186 68185 68187 68188 68189

Looks like they did a nice job, albeit very late.
I like how they put everything together in a common case.
I wonder what the weight bias is now though.

What motor did they use, forgive me if its already been stated?

[Mario]

Their workmanship is very good, but yeah, shame it's taken so long.
I'll have to get it weighed once it's all done. There are batteries going in the frunk too, I think the weight distribution will be a little better than stock but not by much.

It's a small Tesla drive unit (front motor from I think a Model S), about 300hp.

[Josh]

Their workmanship is very good, but yeah, shame it's taken so long.
I'll have to get it weighed once it's all done. There are batteries going in the frunk too, I think the weight distribution will be a little better than stock but not by much.

It's a small Tesla drive unit (front motor from I think a Model S), about 300hp.

Ok, this is what motor I thought it was. Fits very nice. The gears are turning in my head now...

[81dmc]

Damn, it’s been 7 years since the project started???

This is sad.

[Jpalatinus]

Damn, it’s been 7 years since the project started???

This is sad.

Well it does look like it I coming along

DO you know how many Tesla battery modules they are using?, it looks like 8 Tesla modules in the back there. My limited understanding of the Tesla drive motor typically uses 16 modules (in a Tesla) and needs 14 to get the voltage to drive the motor without some serious other modifications. Are they putting 6-8 modules in the frunk? I imagine they cut open the spare tire area, do you have any pics of this? A single Tesla module weighs 55 lbs so we are talking about 770-880 lbs in batteries alone.

stock DeLorean engine+ trans is ~ 420lbs

Tesla motor ~220
batteries ~800-900 (with box and wiring)
I suspect we are talking about 600-700 lbs over stock but with better weight distribution. Dave Delmans Delorean used 8 Tesla modules total and he was only able to fit 6 in the back and 2 in the frunk He used a weaker motor.

[Mario]

Well it does look like it I coming along

DO you know how many Tesla battery modules they are using?, it looks like 8 Tesla modules in the back there. My limited understanding of the Tesla drive motor typically uses 16 modules (in a Tesla) and needs 14 to get the voltage to drive the motor without some serious other modifications. Are they putting 6-8 modules in the frunk? I imagine they cut open the spare tire area, do you have any pics of this? A single Tesla module weighs 55 lbs so we are talking about 770-880 lbs in batteries alone.

There are 8 in the front, that's the 4th photo. The 3rd and 5th photos show the rear battery box, which appears to have 6 or 7 modules, measuring from the picture. I don't remember exactly how many they've put in, but it looks like at least 14.
So between the motor and batteries, I think the weight in the rear about equals the added weight up front.

They did remove the floor of the frunk just about completely to fit the battery box under the hood. I think it's the right compromise, rarely do I travel in the DeLorean with more things than just fit in the passenger cargo space.

[Jpalatinus]

So between the motor and batteries, I think the weight in the rear about equals the added weight up front.

They did remove the floor of the frunk just about completely to fit the battery box under the hood. I think it's the right compromise, rarely do I travel in the DeLorean with more things than just fit in the passenger cargo space.

Wow that is awesome, i had been looking at trying to fit modules in the fuel tank area but their solution probably makes the most sense. And i agree the weight thought slightly more than stock is probably a near ideal 50/50 ratio I am curious what they did with the brake master cylinder though, i cant see that box fitting there with the stock brake master cylinder in place.

[Mario]

I'll definitely be sure to get photos of the frame before the body goes on so you all can look at those details.

I did find this photo I'd forgotten about:
68218

[Jpalatinus]

I'll definitely be sure to get photos of the frame before the body goes on so you all can look at those details.

I did find this photo I'd forgotten about:
68218

Thanks for that picture,
I am in the designing stages of an ev project t like this and hoping to replicate the fitting of 8 modules into the frunk. The DeLorean frunk has about 28 inches front to back it looks like they mounted the modules at a slight angle in the box to get them to fit length wise. I still think that they probably had to move the brake booster/ brake linkage further to the drivers side to get that box to fit. Its possible that just removing the brake booster and using an I booster or something like that works though. Please keep us posted on progress and if you happen to get pics/ info of the brake master cylinder area I would love to see that.

Joe p

[Mario]

The car is driving and I have DMV registration paperwork and moving permits... stay tuned. :)

[DL4567]

Very cool, and I applaud you keeping this thread updated all these years. Just went back to see when the first post was -- Jan 10, 2015. The below line stuck out at me.... LOL, was that supposed to be March 2015?
Anyway, can't wait to see the end result. :thumbup:


From First Post (Jan 10, 2015)
Quick Specs:
- ~100mi range (tentative)
- Less than 5s 0-60 (tentative)
- ~250HP (tentative)
- Scheduled for completion at the end of March
- DeLorean made from never-used NOS
- Stock manual transmission will be kept

[Mario]

That's what they told me... oh, how naive I was!

[mike123]

Fascinating project, for many reasons! I was just curious if everything is indeed going well with the car. Is it fully finished and in use these days? How do you like it?