Delorean Lower Control Arm reinforcement

[Stanislav]

Hello all. I am interested in adding a Delorean.eu Ed Uding style lower control arm support bracket to my car. I see that that seems to be the best solution, however i also see that a lot of people have had a problem with the bushings and needed to put extra support to keep them from trying to slip out. Also those reinforcement brackets are pricey. I have a machine shop that can make me anything as long as they have dimensions. Can someone please give me the measurements of the brackets?

[Delorean Industries]

There is a unique z bend in this bracket that requires tooling along with a jig. I doubt you could make these and source the bushings for cheaper in one off form.

[Stanislav]

I have 4 people that are interested and i think we can do well on the price. Bushings can be had for a reasonable rate. Do you have the dimensions Josh?

[Bitsyncmaster]

There is probably nothing to stop you from making your own but selling these or asking for a drawing is not ethical. The original designer invested time and money and recovers that cost over the selling of his estimated sales numbers.

[Mark D]

I agree with Dave...There was some pretty significant investment and design time to bring the reinforcement brackets to market. It's really not fair to Ed to just ask someone else for the dimensions so you can make copies.

I have a set installed on my car and have not had any issues with the brackets walking off the bushings as some have reported. As long as you install the washers correctly so the bushings are mushroomed out a little bit there are no issues.

If you're really stuck on wanting to make your own, or wanting to make modified versions to address any issues you feel Ed's have, you might want to consider buying a set of Ed's. At least then he's partially compensated for the design. You're more likely going to get accurate dimensions this way anyway vs someone measuring for you. If you're planning on doing a group buy of these with a few of your friends then buying one legit set from Ed shouldn't set you back that far.

Or maybe Ed would be willing to listen to your feedback about any planned design changes and you could have him make a special modified set for you.

[DMCMW Dave]

... you might want to consider buying a set of Ed's. At least then he's partially compensated for the design. You're more likely going to get accurate dimensions this way anyway vs someone measuring for you. If you're planning on doing a group buy of these with a few of your friends then buying one legit set from Ed shouldn't set you back that far.
.

You've just described the national business plan of China. Buy one good one and make cheap copies with low/no development cost. Ultimately it discourages people from developing new products that can't be locked down. Does this happen with Fire Truck parts?

David M was right on the money with this one.

[Kherns]

+1000 @ Daves !
And then break a leg on the road !:nono:

[Mark D]

You've just described the national business plan of China. Buy one good one and make cheap copies with low/no development cost. Ultimately it discourages people from developing new products that can't be locked down. Does this happen with Fire Truck parts?

David M was right on the money with this one.

Yeah I probably shouldn't have even made that suggestion. From the previous posts it sounded like the OP was on track to build these regardless, so I was thinking at least start with something that is safe and isn't going to get anyone involved in an accident. It's definitely wrong to copy the design and sell these to other people.

To the OP: I'm interested to know what design changes you're thinking about making that would resolve the bushing issue you described.... If it's something that could benefit the community as a whole, why not make the suggestion to Ed and see if he'll update the design? You may also want to consider that the parts look and function the way they do for a reason. Whatever changes you're thinking of making might have unintended consequences. Keep safety in mind if you're planning on this kind of suspension modification.

...and yes the China issue is a concern even with fire truck parts.

[dn010]

Does anyone have a picture of these installed that they could post or PM to me? I'm interested to see what these look like in action, I didn't see any pictures on the site aside from the disassembled pieces. I wouldn't mind buying a set from Europe once my frame is done.

[Mark D]

Here are a few pics:

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=32483&d=1421355357


http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=32484&d=1421355357


http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=27718&d=1401483846




Here's one showing how the assembly is built up, but not installed:
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=14215&d=1350576260



And the theory of how the brackets stay in place on the bushings when properly assembled:



http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=26275&d=1396540500

[dn010]

Those look really nice! Considering I kept having LCA bushing issues in the past, I will look into these eventually.

Then I remembered that someone had done a version of them, here on the forum:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?6880-Lower-Control-Arm-Braces

[Mark D]

One other thing I forgot...in that one pic where the parts are on the bench bolted together but not installed on the car you can see there is some paint chipping on the edges. I decided to strip them down, grind the welds smooth, and powder coat in black for a more durable finish. The standard paint they come with doesn't seem to be the best quality. Other than that, the parts are really robust with good quality welds.

[ed uding]

All new sets now are made from Stainless, no powder coating any more.
By flex it can chip off, so we come with new sets just Stainless.
On one end it is a complement if some one like to make a copy.
But the more this will be don , you will see less new products.
For people that stick there neck out for new and better parts, it will make no sens to do this any more.
If every one start to copy it and sale it, there will be no motivation left to do this.

Ed Uding
Delorean Europe

[Domi]

Can't wait to see your stainless product ED :)

[Mark D]

Wow agreed, that's great that a SS version will be available.

[dn010]

Well, now the stainless version would really go nicely with my brand new stainless LCA's. You can bet I'll be placing an order within the next few months!

[Stanislav]

I agree with Dave...There was some pretty significant investment and design time to bring the reinforcement brackets to market. It's really not fair to Ed to just ask someone else for the dimensions so you can make copies.

I have a set installed on my car and have not had any issues with the brackets walking off the bushings as some have reported. As long as you install the washers correctly so the bushings are mushroomed out a little bit there are no issues.

If you're really stuck on wanting to make your own, or wanting to make modified versions to address any issues you feel Ed's have, you might want to consider buying a set of Ed's. At least then he's partially compensated for the design. You're more likely going to get accurate dimensions this way anyway vs someone measuring for you. If you're planning on doing a group buy of these with a few of your friends then buying one legit set from Ed shouldn't set you back that far.

Or maybe Ed would be willing to listen to your feedback about any planned design changes and you could have him make a special modified set for you.



The group buy idea is a good one. I didn't mean for this to get so out of control. I am not at all trying to compete with Ed I just wanted to make a cheaper solution for myself and a few friends I have talked to locally including myself who want the braces but are not willing to spend the amount asked for them. I feel it is too much. I am all for people making a profit, but within limits. When you guys start saying cost and time of development, great, but who knows what the actual cost and time of development is? Only Ed.

I had a BMW m5 previously and people spend $2200 for a set of Eisenmann mufflers that cost no more than $500 to make identical locally and the place that makes them for $500 still made a hefty profit. Is it ethical for Eisenmann to charge $2200 for them? Its not my place to say! Its a free market economy, something only costs what people are willing to pay for it. Some people might think $60 for a relay from Dave is crazy expensive but I paid it and I am happy with it. Some people might say that $28,000 for a twin turbo v6 prv is crazy expensive since it costs more than most deloreans but people still buy it.

I used to work for Lexus and I want to share something with you all. do you know how the first Lexus was made? Toyota bought a Mercedes S Class W126, then took it to their factory and tore it apart piece by piece to study it, copy what they can and make better what they can, they took each piece and reengineered it to make it as reliable and as uncomplicated as possible, put the new car together and it became the Lexus LS400. Probably one of the top 5 most reliable cars ever made. They called it a lexus because snobby Americans would not pay the premium price for a toyota! It blew away the competition, and mercedes spend a billion dollars to make their new s class, the w140, to beat the LS400 and get some sales back. And now everyone in the US loves to buy Lexus and Toyota, actually i believe toyota is the best selling brand in America.

I didnt mean to hurt anyones feelings, but please calm down on the China and ethics subject, everybody copies everybody and tries to make things better and cheaper. Its called competition and progress and is the foundation of a freedom based free market capitalist economy.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I didnt mean to hurt anyones feelings, but please calm down on the China and ethics subject, everybody copies everybody and tries to make things better and cheaper. Its called competition and progress and is the foundation of a freedom based free market capitalist economy.

I agree competition is needed to keep consumer prices in check. I also admit I have seen a few items that I think the seller is really "raping" the consumer with the price.

[Kherns]

All new sets now are made from Stainless, no powder coating any more.
By flex it can chip off, so we come with new sets just Stainless.
On one end it is a complement if some one like to make a copy.
But the more this will be don , you will see less new products.
For people that stick there neck out for new and better parts, it will make no sens to do this any more.
If every one start to copy it and sale it, there will be no motivation left to do this.

Ed Uding
Delorean Europe

Great Idea Ed !
I recommend also your New made LCA !

[Delorean Industries]

Just as an fyi our stainless arms are designed to not be used with any type of outrigger installed. Using anything else is conjunction with the lca will void the components warranty.

[dn010]

Thanks Josh, I didn't know that, I appreciate the heads up. Definitely don't want to void warranty on those, too expensive!

[Delorean Industries]

We make our version of the outriggers for stock applications as well. But this arm was extensively engineered and tested to operate in its current form and will provide considerable handling results when installed alone.

[dn010]

Can't wait to drive on them, they are amazing compared to stock.

While on the topic of these, is there anything I should be concerned about or anything I should tell the shop when having the bushings pressed in them? I'd hate to have something damaged...


We make our version of the outriggers for stock applications as well. But this arm was extensively engineered and tested to operate in its current form and will provide considerable handling results when installed alone.

[Delorean Industries]

very straight forward. You can damage the arm if you are not supporting the back side properly. Have the shop contact me prior to install.

[dn010]

Thank you, I'll have them contact you when this all happens. I appreciate it, thanks again Josh.


very straight forward. You can damage the arm if you are not supporting the back side properly. Have the shop contact me prior to install.

[Domi]

Just as an fyi our stainless arms are designed to not be used with any type of outrigger installed. Using anything else is conjunction with the lca will void the components warranty.

Thanks for the information Josh.
Can't wait to see a set of stainless upper and lower arm :)

[Stanislav]

We make our version of the outriggers for stock applications as well. But this arm was extensively engineered and tested to operate in its current form and will provide considerable handling results when installed alone.

I would love to see your version of the braces (outriggers) and pricing. Thank you Josh.

[Flash66]

I would love to see your version of the braces (outriggers) and pricing. Thank you Josh.

I just searched around on DPI's site and couldn't find them. If they are around $300.00 for s set it would be a no brainer for anyone. Seems like that would be a fair price since remanufactured LCA's are $300 each and stainless upwards of $895.00. But I'm not the one machining and welding them to be seamless. Just hopeful for a $300.00 price tag. :) I'd be in for a set for sure. How about you Stan?

Edit: Hell while I'm at it, bushings and ball joints as well.

[Stanislav]

I just searched around on DPI's site and couldn't find them. If they are around $300.00 for s set it would be a no brainer for anyone. Seems like that would be a fair price since remanufactured LCA's are $300 each and stainless upwards of $895.00. But I'm not the one machining and welding them to be seamless. Just hopeful for a $300.00 price tag. :) I'd be in for a set for sure. How about you Stan?

Edit: Hell while I'm at it, bushings and ball joints as well.

Yep $300 would be great price.

[Stanislav]

Yep $300 would be great price.


If Ed Uding could set up a group buy i would be super interested.

[vps3922]

I would like to get a set. I wonder if I have to order it from Europe or if I can also get them from a franchise in the US. I would definitely be in the market for a set from Josh, if this will happen.
Any timelines yet?

[Stanislav]

I would like to get a set. I wonder if I have to order it from Europe or if I can also get them from a franchise in the US. I would definitely be in the market for a set from Josh, if this will happen.
Any timelines yet?



Thread bump, keep this alive guys.

[Chris 16409]

Ask Ed to give you a price quote for the brackets minus all the bolts. He told me it's more expensive if he provides the bolts from Europe than if you were just to source the bolts yourself in the US. It will also decrease the piece of shipping too (bolts are heavy). I'm sure Ed can give the new bolt lengths, as they are longer than stock bolts to accommodate the brackets. I suppose I can measure them off my car too.

[jackb]

The bolts you need for the DMC Europe LCA brackets are a 6" and 8.5", both 1/2" diameter, plus nuts and washers. Grade 8, of course.

I bought mine minus the bolts as well, and got them domestically. Grade 8 bolts that size were not easy to get, in fact, I couldn't find anyplace local to me that could get them, so another member here with a source was kind enough to ship a set to me and I just paid him back.

[Chris 16409]

McMaster Car would probably be a good place to start. Check with local fastener supply houses as well.

[Josh]

McMaster Car would probably be a good place to start. Check with local fastener supply houses as well.

2X

Those kind of bolts are usually a day or so away if they dont have them in stock at a fastener supply.

[Rich_NYS]

How much of a price difference without the bolts?

[Rich_NYS]

How much of a price difference without the bolts?

Still looking for this info...

[Chris 16409]

Still looking for this info...

Have you sent ED an email asking him?

[Rich_NYS]

Have you sent ED an email asking him?

Yes, on his site.....I'll try a PM.

More than one person commented about it, but nobody knows what the price difference is?

Thanks.

[Spittybug]

Rich, have you considered mine? Others are using them with great results..... Use the search function for lower control arm, Spittybug.

[Rich_NYS]

Rich, have you considered mine? Others are using them with great results..... Use the search function for lower control arm, Spittybug.

Thanks, I did see yours and watched the video.
They look well-made & effective. I prefer the style of Ed's supports, but if he's unavailble to sell me a set of his I'll take a closer look at yours.

[jamesrguk]

Thanks, I did see yours and watched the video.
They look well-made & effective. I prefer the style of Ed's supports, but if he's unavailble to sell me a set of his I'll take a closer look at yours.


I think Ed is on holiday at the moment and doesn't respond to many emails when away, fair play to him, we all seem to work 24/7 these days.

J

[Rich_NYS]

I think Ed is on holiday at the moment and doesn't respond to many emails when away, fair play to him, we all seem to work 24/7 these days.

J

Thank you sir....I hadn't thought of that. :thumbup:

[Flash66]

After much thought of buying Ed Uding's LCA braces and reading both threads on the subject, to me It seems logical that I bought them from Owen for a few good reasons. First, having to source bolts locally to save in shipping costs from EU takes time. Then there is the import delay. More time. Also, Ed's are priced higher (although well engineered) they serve the sole purpose of bracing an already stable albeit, not the best LCA design., but good enough that were all driving on them with enough confidence that they're safe. While Ed's are engineered differently and "possibly" do a slightly better job, Owens solution has been tested for a while now and I'm my opinion adequately stabilizing an already fairly stable link in the suspension. Good enough for me, and I saved at least $225.00, and can make another $225 in the time I'd spend sourcing hardware.

[Rich_NYS]

How much of a price difference without the bolts?

40 EUR is the difference in price.

[bigmac]

This is what my friend did to mine. 3428534286Takes care of the 2 weak spots and I need it with these brakes.As the arms have been sand blasted they will be zinc plated before repainting.

342793428034281342823428334284

[Chris 16409]

Bigmac, what kind of brake calipers are those?

[Domi]

Nice setup, both brakes and arms :)

[Christian Dietrich]

Just as an fyi our stainless arms are designed to not be used with any type of outrigger installed. Using anything else is conjunction with the lca will void the components warranty.
So since I have your stainless arms, I do not need a outrigger system to reduce flexing? I don't see how it wouldn't work consider the arm looks exactly the same as the stamped steel unit but in stainless or are they stiffer than the originals and or do you have a outrigger for these arms?

[Patrick C]

So since I have your stainless arms, I do not need a outrigger system to reduce flexing?

Any replacement LCA will still be pivoting at the bushing, therefore any LCA designed to look like the originals will benefit from the outrigger system.

The only way to get around this would be a true wishbone style LCA replacement.

[Ryan King]

Bigmac, what kind of brake calipers are those?

+1

[chris williams]

Quote Originally Posted by Chris 16409 View Post

Bigmac, what kind of brake calipers are those?
+1
Martins I think, http://www.delorean.co.uk/delorean_performance.html About half way down the page.
Chris

[dn010]

Any replacement LCA will still be pivoting at the bushing, therefore any LCA designed to look like the originals will benefit from the outrigger system.

The only way to get around this would be a true wishbone style LCA replacement.

Whether they'd work or not, unfortunately, adding "outriggers" to DPI's stainless LCAs will void the warranty on a pretty expensive set of LCAs.

[Gregadeth]

Whether they'd work or not, unfortunately, adding "outriggers" to DPI's stainless LCAs will void the warranty on a pretty expensive set of LCAs.That might no longer be the case. From DeLorean Fanatics on FB...
48968

[Delorean Industries]

only using our version retains warranty on arms.

[Nicholas R]

only using our version retains warranty on arms.

I thought your arms don't use support brackets?

For those curious about them, I can't recommend adding them enough. I've had them since Ed first introduced them about 6 years ago and they've been great. I will say though that mine are steel and the paint does chip due to the flexing of the part so go stainless if you can. I've since touched them up, but just the fact that the brackets are flexing shows that they are bearing load as designed. I remember the last time I drove a car at highway speeds that didn't have them, it caught me off guard how different of a ride it was.

[Delorean Industries]

Newest spec of arms can use our version.

[Christian Dietrich]

Newest spec of arms can use our version.
Can I get a set for my car then Josh! Call me for pricing and billing! I would really like a set from you!

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