Smog testing in Cali

[dmcerik]

How likely is it that a Delorean will pass smog testing without a proper catalytic converter?

[mburshtain]

How likely is it that a Delorean will pass smog testing without a proper catalytic converter?

Extremely unlikely.
You need a functional catalytic converter it's part of the manual checks.

BTW, just yesterday I passed to smog test without an issue! no work was required, it was totally in the green zone.
My mechanic was very much impressed from how well the car is tuned. :)

[DMCMW Dave]

Extremely unlikely.

The hard parameter, even with a converter, is NOx. I've heard of low mile cars needing a new converter to hit that one. Talk to Danny at DMC Cal for the best info, and if you are in that area you might want to have them tune the car and take it for the check. There are advantages to using a shop and check station familiar with the car - and with each other.

Also, as mburshtain stated, they will physically look for it.

[DavidProehl]

There are advantages to using a shop and check station familiar with the car - and with each other.

Exactly. If a shop has smogged other DMCs in the past, they may better understand why the car could appear out of range on the computer, and realizing that it isn't a real issue they may then manually override it using their best judgment. A shop won't lie for you about emissions (they could lose their state license), but they will use common sense if they realize there truly isn't a problem.

[David T]

Exactly. If a shop has smogged other DMCs in the past, they may better understand why the car could appear out of range on the computer, and realizing that it isn't a real issue they may then manually override it using their best judgment. A shop won't lie for you about emissions (they could lose their state license), but they will use common sense if they realize there truly isn't a problem.

A very well-tuned car might just be able to pass, but as posted, they WILL look for the convertor and if they don't see it you will still fail no matter what your #'s are. Deloreans were VERY clean running for those model years. The K-Jet system was a LOT better than most of the other carbureated cars.

[kings1527]

A very well-tuned car might just be able to pass, but as posted, they WILL look for the convertor and if they don't see it you will still fail no matter what your #'s are. Deloreans were VERY clean running for those model years. The K-Jet system was a LOT better than most of the other carbureated cars.

I'd have to go with "absolutely impossible" for even a properly tuned car in CA without a cat.

My car was tuned by DMC CA just prior to having it smogged and all ranges came back WAY out of limits. They said the cat was bad after looking at the results but I did the job myself. After I took out the old cat, I looked inside it and there was absolutely NOTHING in there. Just a hollow body was all I was working with.

I put in a NOS cat and Danny mentioned that my car was one of the cleanest running cars he'd seen. Historically, this car runs extremely clean and relatively easy to figure out what the problem is if it's not passing smog. Even in CA.

[David T]

I'd have to go with "absolutely impossible" for even a properly tuned car in CA without a cat.

My car was tuned by DMC CA just prior to having it smogged and all ranges came back WAY out of limits. They said the cat was bad after looking at the results but I did the job myself. After I took out the old cat, I looked inside it and there was absolutely NOTHING in there. Just a hollow body was all I was working with.

I put in a NOS cat and Danny mentioned that my car was one of the cleanest running cars he'd seen. Historically, this car runs extremely clean and relatively easy to figure out what the problem is if it's not passing smog. Even in CA.

California is unique in emissions testing. I am not completely familiar with all of the rules. In most States they must test you to the levels of what you had to pass in the year the car was built. In CA I think they changed that to where older cars can be held to lower levels in later years. If that is the case then it would be correct that an older car, no matter how clean, will not pass without a working cat now. I know in NJ my #'s were good enough to pass without a cat. But that is using 1982 levels.

[Rich]

How likely is it that a Delorean will pass smog testing without a proper catalytic converter?

Your DMCTalk ID shows you residing in Burbank, near Los Angeles, which puts you in one of the Calif. counties which does require smog inspections on cars newer than 1975.

To my knowledge there is nothing calling for your D to be any better in terms of emissions than the rules that applied to it in 1981-83.

Without a functioning catalytic converter and O2 sensor you don't have a chance if you want to get the car registered for operation in that part of our great state. That's why they all came fitted out that way to begin with.

And Maor is correct - the smog inspector is instructed to see that something looking like a catalytic converter is in the exhaust system, among other things they need to verify by eyeball.

You do have an option to register it without an inspection there but only if you put it down for Non-Operational status, in which case you cannot legally have it on the road. The point of that option? It at least keeps the registration alive inexpensively while you sort out your options, after which you can register for operational status - after passing the test, which may require a tow to the shop since you cannot legally drive it while it is listed as non-op and has no license sticker. Much easier to go to non-op status and then revive it later than to go unregistered now and have to start from zero later.

[TTait]

Deloreans in Los Angeles County do need to pass a smog test, on a Dyno, with visual inspection, every 2 years - if there is really a loophole I'd love to hear about it...

You won't pass without a functioning cat - I tried several years ago, and its pretty much impossible. You will not be able to hit the levels, even with a well tuned car, a hot engine, or additives.

The "system" is nearly impossible to fool too. You see the test equipment tests the front and rear axle weights, and compares the RPMs to the wheel speed on the dyno. While the inspector cannot plug into the car to get the VIN electronically, you still need a car with the same basic weight and balance, and the same gear ratios to pass - that pretty much means a delorean with the same transmission must take a test on the dyno or the computer won't pass the car.

No legit inspector will pass the car without at least a cat (shell) installed, but you can't hit the levels with an empty or faulty cat. If a shop tells you they can get you passed without a cat, then they are taking another D over to have it pass by proxy, and the inspector is looking the other way - thats the only way it happens in CA AFAIK.

Most inspectors will not know the difference between the stock exhaust and a Stage 1, so if you had take in a stage 1 with cats, or other properly designed aftermarket exhaust, you would be fine in most cases - thats about the only leeway you might get.

Do not read between the lines here - once you do have a functioning cat installed I can suggest you go to Joe's Smog Check on Burbank blvd. near Vineland - you can print out discount coupons online. He knows the car, and does good work. He passed my Stage 2 several times, as well as our stock Delorean, but only because they were operating and tuned properly. Honest, personable, and he's not afraid of the car. I'm probably heading over there soon myself, even though he is 25 miles away. But if you have no cat, or a non functional cat, don't bother - it won't pass.

[SS Spoiler]

Out here were common sense seems to live, there are no inspections, no road side checks,
if your car [any car] is ten years old you can get a one time permeant license for life, no smog stations,
barely any speed enforcement, no milage checks, no under the hood checks and it took a total of
two inspections to build my house [septic and electric]....the birds are singing, the air is clear, the deer
and the antelope are playing.....sorry for "off topic", had to rub it in

Paul Cerny #2691
Kalispell, MT

[dmcerik]

Thanks for the info guys. I have a cat shell installed on my car. It wasn't an issue while I was in Michigan, but now that the Delorean is coming out to Cali to be with me it sort of is. I have a few spare cats from parts cars and parts lots that i've acquired over the years. Is there a good way to test a cat out before installing it, outside of tipping it over and if chunks fall out its bad?

[David T]

Thanks for the info guys. I have a cat shell installed on my car. It wasn't an issue while I was in Michigan, but now that the Delorean is coming out to Cali to be with me it sort of is. I have a few spare cats from parts cars and parts lots that i've acquired over the years. Is there a good way to test a cat out before installing it, outside of tipping it over and if chunks fall out its bad?

If the outer shell is not distorted from heat, if you can look inside and the bed of catalyst is there, it is not warped or distorted, you don't see chunks of carbon, and there is nothing loose, it is probably good. The only way to actually test it is to put it onto a car and check the emissions before and after. It is possible it can be plugged up from being run too rich, hard to tell that visually.

[dmcerik]

Do not read between the lines here - once you do have a functioning cat installed I can suggest you go to Joe's Smog Check on Burbank blvd. near Vineland - you can print out discount coupons online. He knows the car, and does good work. He passed my Stage 2 several times, as well as our stock Delorean, but only because they were operating and tuned properly. Honest, personable, and he's not afraid of the car. I'm probably heading over there soon myself, even though he is 25 miles away. But if you have no cat, or a non functional cat, don't bother - it won't pass.

Looked him up online and their site states 2000-2015 cars. Is this a new thing or has it always stated this but he does Deloreans anyways?

[DMCMW Dave]

Just a data point - maybe 5-6 years ago we shipped a car to a new owner in California (bought from a customer here) and it was a less than 10K mile car with an apparently good cat, and it passed Illinois emissions (which they don't have to any more). It would not pass CA without installing a new cat. It's possible that the old cat had been somehow damaged long ago, but not bad enough for IL, but it would not hit the NOx number in CA.

[Chris 16409]

I hate CA SMOG! I always dread it each time I have to have the DeLorean checked. With my SPEC1 Exhaust it barely passes the NOx test. All the other numbers are way below max. If CA ever decides to classify the DeLorean as a "Gross Polluter" we're done. Right now, our cars are tested with the "High Emitter Profile". My car is due up this year so I'll be updating my old SMOG thread at that time. Luckily I've found a shop that doesn't challenge my exhaust system.

[TTait]

Looked him up online and their site states 2000-2015 cars. Is this a new thing or has it always stated this but he does Deloreans anyways?

I think thats just what the website says - but its been two years since I have been there - will confirm soon. I think that statement refers to the price for the coupon, older car prices vary.

T

[Ryan King]

My car didn't pass this last time.

So I took the CATs off my Stage Ii, soaked them in laundry soap and water overnight. Shot them out and cleaned them.
Did an oil change.
Cleaned the air filter.
Adjusted my Dwell.
Changed out my exhaust gaskets.

Then I passed with flying colors.

Its possible, I managed to pass every 2 year, and the numbers are always different.

In addition, I use a Smog shop that is familiar with my car in Visalia, so the 45 minutes drive does it good too. Nice and warmed up for the test. But this shop doesn't ask a ton of questions and just gets the job done. If they can't test a certain thing, they pass it. (Gas Cap, Emission Controls, Check Engine Light, etc)

[Riley88]

Hey bud I recently HD to have mine smogged in cali. Car would pass. Had to have a new catalytic installed then it passed very well. Cali laws are garbage:(

[TTait]

Did not go to Joes - my wife took it to a local place on Friday - did not pass at 15mph, but did at 25. High NO indicates slight overtemp in the cylinders and a decreased efficiency in the cat. Going to try a few things before replacing the cat.

Curious about washing out the cat with Dawn - and I had a thought... Rather than removing it to wash it out , I was thinking of:

Plug the tailpipes
Remove the 02 sensor
Loosen either fitting from the exhaust manifold to crossover pipe until its no longer tightly sealed
Find a similar threaded plumbing fitting to the o2 sensor and install a clear hose onto the end of it, put on a little teflon tape and screw it into the 02 sensor hole
Raise the front of the car high on jackstands
Fill the lower exhaust with hot soapy water via the hose until water level is high enough more than fill the cat
watch the level and keep it full for as long as soapy water solution lasts. If it doesn't leak fast drain through muffler, and refill several times
Finally drain the system, rinse several times with water until water runs clear
Retighten crossover pipe and reinstall o2 sensor

Thoughts?

Also - I did not prep the car before it went in - rear tires were a little low on air, the engine air filter is due for a refresh, it went in with 87 octane gas (not sure if that matters).

Any other tips for eeking out a lower NO reading, particularly at 15mph?

If I do replace the CAT - any options other than Hervey and DMC?

Tom

[Ryan King]

I did not prep the car before it went in - rear tires were a little low on air, the engine air filter is due for a refresh

Tom -

I forgot to add that point. My tires were also at around 25psi. They were LOW. I pumped them up to almost max load. The car has to work harder at lower RPM if they aren't aired up all the way.

I highly suggest you do everything I did.

Change Oil
Air Up Tires
New/Clean Air Filter (I have a K&N, so I cleaned mine)
New Exhaust Gaskets
Soak the Cat!!! Take it off, get a rubbermaid bin, and soak it overnight and blow it out in the morning.
Prior to my doing this, looking into the cat, I could see all the wire mesh on the insider were plugged. Afterwards, they were all clear. With all of the above stated done, it passed. I can pull my records and show you the fail vs the pass, if youd like.

The Fail - Prior to any Maintenance
33379

The Pass - After the above mentioned was done.
33380

[TTait]

Oh I totally believe you man - but dropping the CAT is a pain... I think it would be easy to soak it in place. I can't believe it would hurt the muffler...

So, based on your improvement, I might just pass... Mine barely passed at 25 and was a bit higher at 15 than yours...


BTW - I've read about cleaning your cat by putting laquer thinner in the gas - NO WAY I'm going to do that - does not sound scientifically sound as the thinner would still combust and reduceinto other compounds - but it might also do damage to the fuel lines, components, tank and especially the accumulator.

[Ryan King]

Oh I totally believe you man - but dropping the CAT is a pain... I think it would be easy to soak it in place. I can't believe it would hurt the muffler...

So, based on your improvement, I might just pass... Mine barely passed at 25 and was a bit higher at 15 than yours...

15 MPH
1309 on the Failed Report
939 on the Pass Report

25 MPH
720 on the Failed Report
703 on the Pass Report

Cant beat those facts, Jack.

[dmcerik]

Thanks for all the good advice. Issues with my dads truck will prevent the Delorean from getting trailered out this month. Looking at possibly June now.

[TTait]

So, its really late and I'm too beat to upload images of the actual smog tests tonight - will do that soon.

I passed today. My starting numbers from 2 weeks ago were barely passing on NOX at 25mph and a miserable fail at 15 - but I had some good head room on the other gasses.

Read that high NOX is related to a bad cat and to higher temps in the cyl. So I did the following:

Took rear tires up to 50 PSI to reduce rolling resistance. Added a coolant additive to make the coolant more efficient at transferring heat, and requested the tech use the cooling fan during the test. U did not get the car as hot this time - we tested at about 210 degrees, on the gauge instead of 225 as I did last time.

My other gasses did go up, but my NOX went way down, and I still passed.

I assumed I would fail, I just went in to get an incremental report today for additional data before soaking the cat - but with a few simple changes - I passed. Science wins again!

T

[dmruschell]

Did not go to Joes - my wife took it to a local place on Friday - did not pass at 15mph, but did at 25. High NO indicates slight overtemp in the cylinders and a decreased efficiency in the cat. Going to try a few things before replacing the cat.

Curious about washing out the cat with Dawn - and I had a thought... Rather than removing it to wash it out , I was thinking of:

Plug the tailpipes
Remove the 02 sensor
Loosen either fitting from the exhaust manifold to crossover pipe until its no longer tightly sealed
Find a similar threaded plumbing fitting to the o2 sensor and install a clear hose onto the end of it, put on a little teflon tape and screw it into the 02 sensor hole
Raise the front of the car high on jackstands
Fill the lower exhaust with hot soapy water via the hose until water level is high enough more than fill the cat
watch the level and keep it full for as long as soapy water solution lasts. If it doesn't leak fast drain through muffler, and refill several times
Finally drain the system, rinse several times with water until water runs clear
Retighten crossover pipe and reinstall o2 sensor

Thoughts?

Also - I did not prep the car before it went in - rear tires were a little low on air, the engine air filter is due for a refresh, it went in with 87 octane gas (not sure if that matters).

Any other tips for eeking out a lower NO reading, particularly at 15mph?

If I do replace the CAT - any options other than Hervey and DMC?

Tom

DPI's website has a Catback exhaust available as well as a replacement high-flow cat available.

http://www.deloreanindustries.com/spec-i-catback-exhaust-system-stainless/

http://www.deloreanindustries.com/19-high-flow-converter-stock-exhaust/

[Bitsyncmaster]

A lot of people say adding acetone to the gas will reduce NOX and improve MPG. Don't know if this is true or not.

[Ryan King]

...I passed. Science wins again!

Congrats Tom!

Glad to hear it worked out, and you didn't have to soak cat!
33579

-Ryan