Paris Rhone starter and solenoid rebuild kit?

[DMC-81]

Hi there,

I am looking to refresh my OEM starter and particularly the solenoid with a rebuild kit. Does such a thing still exist? If so, who has them?

Thanks

[Delorean Industries]

Hi there,

I am looking to refresh my OEM starter and particularly the solenoid with a rebuild kit. Does such a thing still exist? If so, who has them?

Thanks

Buy the eagle unit and never look back.

[DMC-81]

Thanks Josh. I have read and seen videos on the Eagle starter, and as tempting as it sounds, I am trying to stay OEM with my restoration. The starter still works strongly, but I want to refresh it while I have the engine partly disassembled.

[DMC5180]

If your that concerned about it, you can remove it and do a condition inspection of the internals. The plastic end cap is what usually fails due to heat.

[DMCMW Dave]

If your that concerned about it, you can remove it and do a condition inspection of the internals. The plastic end cap is what usually fails due to heat.

Also check the large copper contactor and the electrodes. They burn away over time which is the common failure mode of a solenoid.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Also check the large copper contactor and the electrodes. They burn away over time which is the common failure mode of a solenoid.

A fix for that we did with Chevy starters back in the old days was to pull the contacts (just bolts with heads for contacts) and rotate them so the contact area is now like new.

[PJ Grady Inc.]

We can supply rebuilt P.R. starters as well as many service parts like NOS solenoids,drives, brushes, bushings etc. We also have rebuilt Motorola alternators. We rebuild "in house" steering racks, brake calipers, hdlmp, wdw, mirror & defog switchs and many other items that will meet and often exceed OEM specs.
We can supply most original correct parts for the purist at affordable prices due to 34 years of experience, inventory buyouts, and parts sourcing connections.
Of course we also have new improved replacements for those who are not concerned with originality.
PM, call, or email for any rebuilt or new part needs as I'm sure we can assist you.
Rob


Hi there,

I am looking to refresh my OEM starter and particularly the solenoid with a rebuild kit. Does such a thing still exist? If so, who has them?

Thanks

[DMC-81]

If your that concerned about it, you can remove it and do a condition inspection of the internals. The plastic end cap is what usually fails due to heat.

Thanks!

Is the black cap on the starter the one that you are referencing?

[DMC-81]

We can supply rebuilt P.R. starters as well as many service parts like NOS solenoids,drives, brushes, bushings etc. We also have rebuilt Motorola alternators. We rebuild "in house" steering racks, brake calipers, hdlmp, wdw, mirror & defog switchs and many other items that will meet and often exceed OEM specs.
We can supply most original correct parts for the purist at affordable prices due to 34 years of experience, inventory buyouts, and parts sourcing connections.
Of course we also have new improved replacements for those who are not concerned with originality.
PM, call, or email for any rebuilt or new part needs as I'm sure we can assist you.
Rob

Thanks Rob. As suggested in the thread, I'll take it off and inspect it and let you know if I need any parts. I got lucky with the steering rack, as all it needed was cleaning, paint and new gear oil.

Cheers,

[PJ Grady Inc.]

No he's referring to the solenoid cap (not the starter "nosecap") which overheats and melts/burns contacts. Sometimes it's repairable and sometimes not.


Thanks!

Is the black cap on the starter the one that you are referencing?

[DMCMW Dave]

A fix for that we did with Chevy starters back in the old days was to pull the contacts (just bolts with heads for contacts) and rotate them so the contact area is now like new.

You could also flip the main contactor over to expose a new side. I got really good at this stuff in college. Lack of funds = creativity.

[Rich]

I am looking to refresh my OEM starter and particularly the solenoid with a rebuild kit. Does such a thing still exist? If so, who has them?

Closest thing might be a NOS Paris-Rhone solenoid.

Hervey shows them on his website. Not sure whether others sell them. Hervey's starter page also has a photo of how the solenoid contact plate/bar eventually wears away.

When ours started going bad 8-9 years ago I bought one of these from him, swapped out the old solenoid assembly and the starter has worked like new since then.

[DMC-81]

Wow, it's been a while for me to get around to this task. I decided not to do it when it did the top half of the engine. But, I recently had to remove the starter, and have the parts, so now I'm refurbing it.

49138

The original owner bypassed the Paris-Rhone solenoid and installed an external non-stock starter solenoid (Motorcraft).

49139

This configuration worked without any issues, but I'm now returning it to stock. This is the final (# 3 of 3) non-stock part that the original owner installed to keep the car going. So, it's the last hack to be removed. My guess is that either the solenoid failed (due to the above described problem of heat in the area) or it wasn't getting enough voltage per Service Bulletin ST-05-2/82. It's an early car, prior to VIN 2547, and the starter mod wire wasn't done. The solenoid looks pristine though, so I'm not sure yet what the problem is.

Regardless, these are the parts that got to repair the problem. From left to right... non-stock solenoid removed, old Paris-Rhone solenoid, new part from PJ Grady, OEM starter mod wire and a correct zip tie on the harness from DMCH.

49140

I'll replace the solenoid, and if the old one is still good, I'll save it as a spare. I also got brushes and a bushing from Rob, but I'll save them until the starter motor needs rebuilding. Plus, I'll do the mod.

I have a question: is it possible and how do you disassemble the old solenoid? (to assess the cap/ contacts)

Thanks!

[PJ Grady Inc.]

Wow, it's been a while for me to get around to this task. I decided not to do it when it did the top half of the engine. But, I recently had to remove the starter, and have the parts, so now I'm refurbing it.

49138

The original owner bypassed the Paris-Rhone solenoid and installed an external non-stock starter solenoid (Motorcraft).

49139

This configuration worked without any issues, but I'm now returning it to stock. This is the final (# 3 of 3) non-stock part that the original owner installed to keep the car going. So, it's the last hack to be removed. My guess is that either the solenoid failed (due to the above described problem of heat in the area) or it wasn't getting enough voltage per Service Bulletin ST-05-2/82. It's an early car, prior to VIN 2547, and the starter mod wire wasn't done. The solenoid looks pristine though, so I'm not sure yet what the problem is.

Regardless, these are the parts that got to repair the problem. From left to right... non-stock solenoid removed, old Paris-Rhone solenoid, new part from PJ Grady, OEM starter mod wire and a correct zip tie on the harness from DMCH.

49140

I'll replace the solenoid, and if the old one is still good, I'll save it as a spare. I also got brushes and a bushing from Rob, but I'll save them until the starter motor needs rebuilding. Plus, I'll do the mod.

I have a question: is it possible and how do you disassemble the old solenoid? (to assess the cap/ contacts)

Thanks!
Just remove the two 8M nuts on the cap and remove from the metal housing. You're looking for wear/heat damage to the copper contacts and bridge plate.
Ron

[DMC-81]

Just remove the two 8M nuts on the cap and remove from the metal housing. You're looking for wear/heat damage to the copper contacts and bridge plate.
Ron

Thanks Rob! I'll do that and post pictures of what it looks like.

----------------

Today I continued the refurb...

The starter protection plate was sanded with 320 and then 600 grit sandpaper, and residual paint removed with carb cleaner...
49146

Primed..
49147

..and it is ready for gloss black top coat.

I also gently cleaned the starter aluminum area with engine degreaser and a SS wire brush using a circular motion, and the black case was sanded with 320 grit sandpaper...

49148

One coat of Rustoleum satin black paint done.

49149

[DMC-81]

Here is a picture of the old solenoid with the cap removed..

49151

There is some wear, but is that typical of a 25k mile car or is it excessive?

[DMC5180]

It depends how many starter cycles and the battery condition when engaging the starter.

I replaced the Contacts end cap on mine about 15 years ago. I started having occasional intermittent starting issues again at DCS Dayton. I finally replaced the starter last summer with the lightweight eagle starter. When I checked the the end cap contacts I found they had overheated the plastic cap again and caused the head of the contact to sink into the plastic making it difficult for the plunger to bridge the contacts again. If I had to guess, I put 30-40k miles on the car over that time. Mostly long trips to DCS events with extended touring vacations. So, relatively low starter cycles for total miles driven.




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[Bitsyncmaster]

It depends how many starter cycles and the battery condition when engaging the starter.

I replaced the Contacts end cap on mine about 15 years ago. I started having occasional intermittent starting issues again at DCS Dayton. I finally replaced the starter last summer with the lightweight eagle starter. When I checked the the end cap contacts I found they had overheated the plastic cap again and caused the head of the contact to sink into the plastic making it difficult for the plunger to bridge the contacts again. If I had to guess, I put 30-40k miles on the car over that time. Mostly long trips to DCS events with extended touring vacations. So, relatively low starter cycles for total miles driven.




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Also could depend on how quick your engine starts. Long cranking could heat things up enough to melt plastic.

[DMC5180]

True, but fortunately mine has always been quick to fire up engine.


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[DMC-81]

It depends how many starter cycles and the battery condition when engaging the starter.

I replaced the Contacts end cap on mine about 15 years ago. I started having occasional intermittent starting issues again at DCS Dayton. I finally replaced the starter last summer with the lightweight eagle starter. When I checked the the end cap contacts I found they had overheated the plastic cap again and caused the head of the contact to sink into the plastic making it difficult for the plunger to bridge the contacts again. If I had to guess, I put 30-40k miles on the car over that time. Mostly long trips to DCS events with extended touring vacations. So, relatively low starter cycles for total miles driven.

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Ok, thanks Dennis! I don't know the history but currently it fires up quickly. I have installed the new solenoid and I'll clean up and keep the old one as a spare.

Another question: I was doing the starter mod this morning which went well, but the instructions state to plug the other end of the brown mod wire to an empty terminal on the BATT side of the fan speed circuit breaker. Mine doesn't have a spare one on the battery side, and I'm wondering if I have it wired correctly. There are 3 brown wires on it, and 4 terminals on the breaker. There are 2 thicker wires, and one thinner one. Here's how I have it wired ( breaker #18 on the right):

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.... 2 on the BATT terminal and one on the AUX terminal. Those were exactly the positions of them when I installed the relay update kit, but based on the instructions I'm not sure. How is it supposed to be wired?

[DMC5180]

Disconnect all 3 wires then probe each for 12 v. Only 1 wire is live all the time. That is the BATT wire. The other 2 are AUX and go to the 3rd and 4th speed fan relays. Configure your wires as shown in your instructions and add the Mod wire to the Empty BATT side terminal.


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[DMC-81]

Disconnect all 3 wires then probe each for 12 v. Only 1 wire is live all the time. That is the BATT wire. The other 2 are AUX and go to the 3rd and 4th speed fan relays. Configure your wires as shown in your instructions and add the Mod wire to the Empty BATT side terminal.


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Thanks again Dennis! I did this and the 4th speed connector was in the wrong spot... All fixed now.

--------------------

Here are pictures of the starter mod process..

Before mod..
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White/yellow pigtail jumper removed from the relay block and the white/red connector removed to cut the pigtail jumper off and to move it....
49155

After mod..
49156

The other end of the mod wire attached to the BATT terminal of the fan speed circuit breaker..
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Also, I finished up the starter and protection plate. Before and after...

49158 49159

This task is now finished. Thanks to everyone for your help (and parts). :wrenchin:

[Morpheus]

Looks great, as usual!