Door torsion bars

[mburshtain]

Hi Guys,
Here is my question for the door experts among you:

Both of my doors will not go all the way up and I have no idea why...It's not a struts issue as I replaced them both twice.

I posted a video to show it to you -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfPrcNZ7Fu4

Any idea what is wrong? do you think the torsion bars needs adjustment?
I know for a fact that no one touched them since the car was made.

[flux3d]

Looking at the video it sounds like you've got a similar problem to what i had. The rubber seal between the door and the T panel started to perish and "rub" on the inner part of the door. It would double over, and in the end split at a couple of points. Also, the points where the gas struts attach to the tub of the car had become bent over time. Sorting Both of these completely transformed my drivers side door.

[mburshtain]

Thanks, the rubber could be an issue, I agree. However I don't think I have this bending issue.http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/16/9595b9add8dcc9df9c588782fcffe38a.jpg


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[Elvis]

struts mounted upside down...

there's a simple test to check the torsion bars.

[mburshtain]

struts mounted upside down...

there's a simple test to check the torsion bars.

Good observation Elvis, I corrected it.
Can you please share some more details on this simple test?

[Patrick C]

Look at the door strut mount where it meets the fiberglass. Very common for it to be bent/pulling away/cracking the fiberglass.

EDIT: Like so http://1561project.com/?page=ball-stud

[mburshtain]

It hard for me to say that it's bended as I did not remote the stainless panels - please see the photo I took and let me know what you think.http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/16/f851a38d2ec89f75797e398610f95b7d.jpg


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[mburshtain]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/16/0c2780994b1b1e0c35f8e2357a583cc7.jpg



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[Patrick C]

Open the door a few times and push the door full travel and see if there is movement there. It does appear a little bent at this angle.

[mburshtain]

And the right doorhttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/16/656609c03d0f5741b2d20325700cf297.jpg


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[mburshtain]

You are right, it does move a little :-(


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[Patrick C]

Then there are several repair methods. The blog post is the most common one and is the most involved.

However, Byrne Henninger used to sell brackets that were a quick install and needed no panel removal. I have them in my own car. These appear to be his latest version that use custom struts: http://deloreannewparts.com/store/page22.html

EDIT: I would contact him and see if he has any of the "old" brackets left and you can retain standard DeLorean door struts.

[Rich]

From the video we see that the primary problem that the door opens about 3/4 of the way, then stops.

With just a little up-assistance and then after letting go the door opens fully or at least as fully as you want and it then stays there, correct?

If so then this means the small offset/bend of the lower strut mounting stud isn't the primary issue. It is still "bent" with the door open as far as you want it.

Weird that both doors have the same problem.

One more question: Did both doors EVER lift properly with new struts since you have had your car?

[mburshtain]

From the video we see that the primary problem that the door opens about 3/4 of the way, then stops.

With just a little up-assistance and then after letting go the door opens fully or at least as fully as you want and it then stays there, correct?

If so then this means the small offset/bend of the lower strut mounting stud isn't the primary issue. It is still "bent" with the door open as far as you want it.

Weird that both doors have the same problem.

One more question: Did both doors EVER lift properly with new struts since you have had your car?

Hey Rich,
You are absolutely correct - the door opens 3/4 of the way and needs some help to lift all the way up. Once it's up, it stays up.
Also, there are no issues closing to doors, it all nice and smooth.

This has been ALWAYS an issue since I bought it. I replaced the strut and it did not help.
From a cosmetic point of view, the doors fit nicely with no gaps.

--Maor

[David T]

Hey Rich,
You are absolutely correct - the door opens 3/4 of the way and needs some help to lift all the way up. Once it's up, it stays up.
Also, there are no issues closing to doors, it all nice and smooth.

This has been ALWAYS an issue since I bought it. I replaced the strut and it did not help.
From a cosmetic point of view, the doors fit nicely with no gaps.

--Maor

All the venders sell brackets to fix this. I like P J Grady's best. Your torsion bars could use a little bit more twist but if it gets hot the doors may bounce. If they stay all the way up when pushed fully open that is pretty close and you can leave it alone. Only if you have launchers would you need the doors to fully open without help. Some vender's struts are a little bit more powerful then others and as your struts get weak you will be tempted to adjust the bars.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Then there are several repair methods. The blog post is the most common one and is the most involved.

However, Byrne Henninger used to sell brackets that were a quick install and needed no panel removal. I have them in my own car. These appear to be his latest version that use custom struts: http://deloreannewparts.com/store/page22.html

EDIT: I would contact him and see if he has any of the "old" brackets left and you can retain standard DeLorean door struts.

I also have his older brackets that keep the same mounting point as the OEM setup. Mine were bent like yours looks like. Very easy to install.

That is the first I've seen of his new brackets. I do like the his idea of changing the geometry to increase the forces at full open and decrease the forces at closed. Price seems a little high but he needs to recover his R&D costs.

[mburshtain]

Mine were bent like yours looks like.
Question for you - before you installed yours, did you encounter the same issue while opening the doors? if not, what made you notice the problem?

[Patrick C]

Question for you - before you installed yours, did you encounter the same issue while opening the doors? if not, what made you notice the problem?

My doors operated much more smoothly and consistently once that anchor wasn't moving around anymore.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Question for you - before you installed yours, did you encounter the same issue while opening the doors? if not, what made you notice the problem?

No. All it seemed to do is not open the door as high on the bent one. Would only see that looking at both doors wide open from the front or back of the car.

[mburshtain]

Any product reviews on the "blue sky" upgrade system?


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[DMCMW Dave]

Get the torsion bars adjusted.

[DMC5180]

Obviously the blue sky kit works or he wouldn't be selling it. But I really don't like the lower ball stud setup. That is not the way the ball joint is intended to pivot ( not that it can't ). I'd really like to see a drawing illustration of the closed position. Maybe it's not as severe as it looks.

[Elvis]

Good observation Elvis, I corrected it.
Can you please share some more details on this simple test?

Everybody shoud know by now that the torsion bars themselves should
lift the doors 2...4 inches.

[mburshtain]

I must have missed that class ;-)


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[David T]

I must have missed that class ;-)


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Have an assistant hold the door fully open. Remove the strut. Slowly close the door. It should hang open between 2-4 inches. If it doesn't you probably need a torsion bar adjustment. With this test you do not need to use a strut so it doesn't matter if you have old ones or new ones.

[mburshtain]

Have an assistant hold the door fully open. Remove the strut. Slowly close the door. It should hang open between 2-4 inches. If it doesn't you probably need a torsion bar adjustment. With this test you do not need to use a strut so it doesn't matter if you have old ones or new ones.

Thank you David,
See my door test results - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECcwhAi_jvg
Looks like I need a torsion bar adjustment.

[Elvis]

you're welcome :-)


and my name is not David :-P

[mluder]

My lower strut mounts are bent about as much as yours are and it doesn't affect the opening process.

If the door doesn't open fully on its own but you can lift it the rest of the way and it stays then generally the struts are fine and the torsion bars need to be adjusted. based on your video I bet one notch would do it. If you've never done this procedure before seek the advice of someone who has. It requires some special fixtures, tools, and knowledge. I've done it a couple of times at my club tech sessions and still would be reluctant to try on my own. Not to mention it really takes two people.

BTW - I have tried several different vendors struts and pound for pound have found the PJ Grady's are teh best. Strong open and a nice little dampened movement at the end.

Cheers
Steven

[David T]

Thank you David,
See my door test results - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECcwhAi_jvg
Looks like I need a torsion bar adjustment.

Driver's side needs probably 1 spline. Check the other side too.

[mburshtain]

I also checked the passenger side and it's exactly the same...


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[mburshtain]

As many of you recommended, I got the torsion bars adjusted which seams to do the trick. Both doors needed one spline.

I want to use this opportunity to thank Rich who despite of his busy schedules came to my help and showed my how it's being done.
Very much appreciated !