Delorean owner new to forum with age old questions

[88Ngone]

Good Evening,

Hello everyone, my name is Jared and I'm a newbie to DMC Talk Forums. First and foremost, I just wanted to let everyone know VIN # 10541 lives and is looking sharp. I became the third and final owner, as I like to say, back in May of 2007. Unfortunately, I'm just now getting online to see what resources are available to me, or more specifically, to get advice from the pros.

A little background on the car: My Delorean was checked out by DMC Florida back in 2008, and back then it was running decently (could safely be driven, but liked to kill over from time to time like the BTTF movies and the Idle was never stable) and supposedly only $5K from mint condition. I had the joy of driving my Delorean from time to time, but as time went on and having the joy of raising my kids continued, the Delorean was driven less and less as the car was not an everyday driver due to the fact it would kill over randomly. Eventually, it sat for too long and the fuel went bad. The car has always been garage kept since I've owned it and well taken care of as I always ensure to keep it clean, polished, and looking sharp.

I've already drained all the fuel, and have come to the realization sadly, that all the fuel components will more than likely have to be replaced. After realizing that I need to get these items fixed, I started wondering the age old Delorean question, should I go ahead and look at replacing the engine and transmission while at it?

My goal is to have the car as an everyday driver. Obviously I love the hell out of my car, but I have never been a fan of the engine. I believe the car deserves more get up and go power. I'm not looking to race the car, but rather just to enjoy the car knowing I have sufficient get up and go if I want it. I've already talked to DMC about the Stage II engine upgrades and now I understand they have the Stage III upgrade, but too be honest, I 'm not a fan of the money required to get it done. Further, I could totally lie and say I'm a master mechanic, but I'm totally not. I have basic maintenance skills and am more than willing to learn and do things on my own....but that's about as far as I go.

Now with my dissertation of a post, I'm looking for advice/guidance with the following questions:

1. Am I better just sticking with the engine I have, or better yet will I be ousted for swapping engines?
2. How much does a complete engine swap cost (rough estimate)?
3. Do I need to swap out the transmission too?
4. What are the best engines to swap for in a Delorean (I've heard of the LS1 conversion, I was thinking of the chevy small block 350)?
5. As I'm not a master mechanic, what obvious things should I be looking at, considering?


Thanks in advance.

V/R
Jared

[Chris Burns]

This is just my advice on it.

It's your car do as your wish.

The PRV is a very reliable motor, but not a super power house. Swapping a different engine in a DMC is no easy task. Adaptor kits have to be made, custom motor mounts, different wiring harnesses.

From what I have heard you will be spending at least 9 grand on a motor swap. The stock 5 speed Delorean transmission works the best usually although Porsche 911 transmissions have been used (very expensive). Imput shaft upgrade is recommended.

My opinion is that if ain't broke don't fix it. I wouldn't replace the motor unless it blows up. I have driven the LS 1 Delorean recently and it's a great car to drive! Nick the owner worked on it for 9 months and got his money's worth for sure.

Considering the money, time, and labor it takes to make a Delorean fast I would just enjoy it for what it is and if you want something fast you may want to consider another type of car.

In the end it's up to you and have my support either way!!

[sdg3205]

There's lots of swaps out there. As Chris mentioned, some very well detailed ones can be found here. No one will chastise you for an engine swap, but we've heard it a million times so we don't hold our breath :)

Take a look at the options and pick one that works for you.

[Jonathan]

Now with my dissertation of a post, I'm looking for advice/guidance with the following questions:

1. Am I better just sticking with the engine I have, or better yet will I be ousted for swapping engines?
2. How much does a complete engine swap cost (rough estimate)?
3. Do I need to swap out the transmission too?
4. What are the best engines to swap for in a Delorean (I've heard of the LS1 conversion, I was thinking of the chevy small block 350)?
5. As I'm not a master mechanic, what obvious things should I be looking at, considering?

1. Yes, no/irrelevant.
2. n/a
3. n/a
4. n/a
5. Regardless of what kind of mechanic "you" are, your car needs the following: correct what went wrong or changed since it was $5k away from being mint.

- that means finish cleaning the fuel system out including tank and components. Maybe you replace some of those items, maybe you don't. I won't comment or suggest replacing the engine because your fuel system got fouled because I don't think that's the right thing to do.
- if you get past the fuel system problems, then sort out issues that would come from any car sitting for a few years. Inspect everything. Start with the electrical components, fuses, relays, etc. Change the engine oil and filter and engine air filter too. Assess the condition of the brakes and brake fluid. Same for coolant system and you might need to do the coolant hoses if they look to be in poor shape. Yada, yada, yada.
- if you're serious about getting your car in good condition, it will require hard work on your part. It's not terribly difficult for the most part, but replacing engines is never going to be easier and it won't be less expensive either. Hypothetically, you could put some high horsepower engine in the car, get that power when you need it as you mentioned, and then realize there is something else you don't like about the car. Not everyone enjoys these cars, whether it be driving them or working on them. It's not the end of the world if they aren't your favorite, just know that pouring a lot of cash and time and resources into an engine swap won't suddenly make you love them. Getting a car reliable with the stock set-up is a starting point and then decide what is best for you.

[Rich_NYS]

Getting a car reliable with the stock set-up is a starting point and then decide what is best for you.

+1

I think gettting the car running so you can enjoy driving it is best, then re-assess from there.

Depending on your driving style, you might find the stock engine suits you fine.

[Jonathan]

+1

I think gettting the car running so you can enjoy driving it is best, then re-assess from there.

Depending on your driving style, you might find the stock engine suits you fine.

Rich, that got me thinking about one other thing from the first couple years of ownership...

I hated driving my car initially. Why? Because for the first while, I had a faulty auto trans shift computer keeping it in gear way too long, forcing you to rev the crap out of it or drive fast just to get it to go into 2nd... AND, my brakes were absolute garbage early on (master cylinder mostly). Drive fast + no stop = no nice.

So, yea, good reminder. Get the car working well and then re-evaluate. You driving along and the engine getting "killed" as you said, might have killed your enthusiasm for the car as well. Fix that first and then proceed.

[OverlandMan]

If you've already decided an engine swap is what you want, then you can stop reading here. I have no experience with that or opinions to share. However, if you're considering getting your assumed stock setup going again, here's some info you may find useful.

As someone who's recently replaced, repaired, or refurbed nearly every component of the stock fuel system, I can honestly say the work itself is not that difficult. There are a few things here and there that can be frustrating but if you have basic mechanical skills, you should be fine. You're probably looking at $1k-$2k in parts alone to get everything replaced and whatever time you can set aside to complete the work. An engine swap would probably be exponentially more than that amount based off things I've read in the past.

Here's the list of what I replaced along with approx prices I paid:

Bosch spark plugs - $50
Bosch ignition wires - $50
Distributor cap & rotor - $50
Oil Filter & 6qts Castrol 20W-50 Conventional Oil - $40
Fuel Accumulator Kit - $150
Fuel injection line set w/ replacement crush washers, swapped out banjo bolts, & misc fittings - $300
Injector seals (6) - $20
Injector clips - $30
Fuel filter - $13
Fuel pump screen baffle - $20
Fuel pump return lower - $20
Fuel pump return and feed upper (2) - $15
Fuel pump sealing boot - $55
Fuel pump pickup hose - $42
Fuel pump - $100
Misc vacuum lines and hoses - $50
Acetone for tank cleaning - $10
Grill brush for tank cleaning - $2
Shop towells - $5
Berryman's carb and parts cleaner - $25


My total came to roughly $1,047 and that doesn't include the little things I'm forgetting. I did all the work myself.

You'll probably also have to inspect your fuel distributor for things like a stuck plunger. Don't try to take it apart or else you'll likely never get it to seal again (stories about this all over this forum). If this part ends up being toast, you're out another ~$500 for a replacement unit from one of the vendors.

Once the fuel system is sorted, you'll want to inspect the brakes and make sure they're up to par seeing as the car has been sitting for a while.

Aside from that, it's the normal things that will keep you busy with these things (ie: electrics, cosmetics, HVAC, etc.). And of course the safety stuff like inspecting the TABs, LCAs, etc.

Depending on where you are, there may be some local resources available to you.

Good luck regardless of what you decide!

[dn010]

Welcome to the forum. Where are you located? There may be owners nearby willing to help you troubleshoot your current problems and the issues may be a simple fix. If engine power is a concern there are options but as already stated anything you do will not be cheap. Even my engine swap to the compatible B280F has cost many thousands. Unless you've got money to burn, as suggested get the current engine running and go from there. You may be happy with a couple upgrades like exhaust, ignition, etc if you haven't done them.

[88Ngone]

Wow you guys are fast at answering these forums. You guys rock!

I really appreciate your advice thus far and it has given me a lot to think about. I do want to clarify however that I'm not considering getting rid of this car for a faster one. As my wife and I have said.....I will most likely be buried in this car as it is my dream car. I guess my thought process was that after talking to DMC FL, they quoted me 6-7K for a stage II upgrade.....then obviously a heck of a lot more for the Stage III.....I guess I just figured if I was gonna pour that type of money in it, why not just do a complete conversion and get something with more starting HP. But after reviewing your posts, I can't help but think your right. I probably just need to get the car up and running reliably. Though it used to run, it was never a car I felt confident to hop in and drive at will. I always had to have a backup plan in case it killed over.

To those of you that asked, I currently reside in crestview FL. So if you know anyone nearby that can help me or show me the way forward to getting my delorean running and reliable, please pass along the info. As stated before , I have basic mechanical skills, but I am more than willing to learn on this car as its my dream car and put the hard work in.

Thanks again for your help thus far and let me apologize in advance as I get the feeling I will be bugging you all a lot more often.

V/R
Jared

[dn010]

I'm in Florida too but unfortunately near Tampa so that would be a hike.

Did you try to start the engine with the bad gas? If not, you might get away with draining and cleaning the tank, flushing out the lines, change filters and try to fire it up with fresh fuel. If the engine is shutting off as you drive it, I'd start by cleaning all electrical connections in the engine compartment, to include those bulkhead connections - those were a nightmare for me back when I had them, and my engine would constantly die at random until I cleaned and tightened those up. So glad they're gone now... Keep on shooting the questions, you'll get the answers you need and you'll be back on the road reliably in no time.




Wow you guys are fast at answering these forums. You guys rock!

I really appreciate your advice thus far and it has given me a lot to think about. I do want to clarify however that I'm not considering getting rid of this car for a faster one. As my wife and I have said.....I will most likely be buried in this car as it is my dream car. I guess my thought process was that after talking to DMC FL, they quoted me 6-7K for a stage II upgrade.....then obviously a heck of a lot more for the Stage III.....I guess I just figured if I was gonna pour that type of money in it, why not just do a complete conversion and get something with more starting HP. But after reviewing your posts, I can't help but think your right. I probably just need to get the car up and running reliably. Though it used to run, it was never a car I felt confident to hop in and drive at will. I always had to have a backup plan in case it killed over.

To those of you that asked, I currently reside in crestview FL. So if you know anyone nearby that can help me or show me the way forward to getting my delorean running and reliable, please pass along the info. As stated before , I have basic mechanical skills, but I am more than willing to learn on this car as its my dream car and put the hard work in.

Thanks again for your help thus far and let me apologize in advance as I get the feeling I will be bugging you all a lot more often.

V/R
Jared

[Josh]

An engine swap to anything non-prv is a very extensive project. You need to be fairly confident in your skills as a mechanic, fabricator, and designer.
There are no "kits" to swap anything into a delorean so you have to start at square one. Every single part needs to be carefully selected or made from scratch.

If you want hard numbers, a swap will be taxing on your time as well as money. Honestly, time is the biggest issue for me.

For my LS swap I would estimate at least 500hrs total. For cost I would say $5000 would be a minimum, this entails doing pretty much all the work yourself.

Custom parts needed for an engine swap:
None of these things are bolt on, you have to dream it up and make it work...

Engine Mounts
Transmission Mounts
Flywheel
Adapter plate/bell housing

Fuel System
Coolant system
Air intake
Exhaust system

And a huge one... transmission upgrades...

[sdg3205]

Another thought - why not turbo charge your PRV? It's not uncommon for older turbo kits to come up for sale at attractive prices. You might have to get the turbos rebuilt, but that would be a cost effective way to boost your HP. If you felt bold you could upgrade the internals, which are readily available and help make the engine less susceptible to premature wear from forced induction.

[Farrar]

Welcome to the forum!

For what it's worth, I've owned my DeLorean since 2007 and it has pretty much just sat for the last two years while "life" has got in the way. Although mine is an automatic, I still think that the lack of oopmh where the rubber meets the road only bothered me slightly when it was running reliably.

If I were in your situation, I'd get the thing reliable again, and then enjoy driving it for a while. In the meantime, you can fix the little things that irk you along the way, while saving up for performance upgrades -- camshafts, turbo/supercharging, exhaust, and of course brakes to go along with the extra power. :)

The car is never as fast as it looks in stock form, but it can still be fun to drive even without the torque and HP everyone thinks it should have. Once you get around to driving the car as a reliable machine, you may find the lack of torque doesn't bother you as much.

Again, welcome aboard! And remember, we're here if you need help. Just ask. :)

[88Ngone]

Now that I have decided I need to get the car up and reliable again, I guess my next question is where do I start. The car had been sitting for a few years before I made the rookie mistake of trying to start it again....unfortunately as you all can already see where I'm going with this....the car would not start. Based off this....I disconnected the battery and got inside the fuel tank to drain the fuel. Though the fuel had gone bad, once drained, the tank was actually easy to clean. I was able to wipe it clean with multiple rags and without the use of any chemicals.

This is where I stopped though as I was unsure what to do next. The car has since sat another year and half or so. I know it needs a new fuel pump and some hoses and the hose connected just broke in two with barely any movement....but beyond that I'm lost. I don't know what all needs to be replaced since I tried to start it with that bad gas. Does the entire fuel system need to be redone with the exception of the fuel tank which looks to be in good shape? What should I be careful of when replacing these fuel items before trying to crank it again? Should I also get a new fuel accumulator while at since it seemed to have hot start problems?

Heck since it's sat for so long should I get new brakes? Before it was dormant I just had the brakes redone...but that was years ago? What about the tires? They still look new, but should I consider replacing them since they've sat for so long and are close to 10 years?

Again....tthank you in advance for your responses.

V/R
Jared

[Farrar]

I'd start with the fuel system. Once you've cleared the lines, you can replace the pump, filter, and accumulator, and then maybe try pushing some flushing agent through the fuel distributor and injectors. You might get lucky and the distributor will be OK. If not, you may end up having to buy a new one - they're really tricky to rebuild, although I don't know how skilled you are so you may be able to do it. (Here's a link to a series of videos which includes some on cleaning and checking a Bosch CIS-type fuel distributor (https://www.youtube.com/user/W124ever/videos).) Then make sure everything is in spec (cold start injector, thermo-time switch, frequency valve, dwell...) Once the fuel system is good to go, I'd change the transmission and brake fluid and go for a test drive, note any problems and repair as necessary. This would be my approach; I'm sure others more experienced will chime in.

Haynes makes a book on electronic fuel injection systems (http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-Fuel-Injection-Engine-Management/dp/0837603005) which in my opinion includes some good troubleshooting methods for components in our K-Jet system, although obviously not everything in the book applies.

[sdg3205]

Now that I have decided I need to get the car up and reliable again, I guess my next question is where do I start. The car had been sitting for a few years before I made the rookie mistake of trying to start it again....unfortunately as you all can already see where I'm going with this....the car would not start. Based off this....I disconnected the battery and got inside the fuel tank to drain the fuel. Though the fuel had gone bad, once drained, the tank was actually easy to clean. I was able to wipe it clean with multiple rags and without the use of any chemicals.

This is where I stopped though as I was unsure what to do next. The car has since sat another year and half or so. I know it needs a new fuel pump and some hoses and the hose connected just broke in two with barely any movement....but beyond that I'm lost. I don't know what all needs to be replaced since I tried to start it with that bad gas. Does the entire fuel system need to be redone with the exception of the fuel tank which looks to be in good shape? What should I be careful of when replacing these fuel items before trying to crank it again? Should I also get a new fuel accumulator while at since it seemed to have hot start problems?

Heck since it's sat for so long should I get new brakes? Before it was dormant I just had the brakes redone...but that was years ago? What about the tires? They still look new, but should I consider replacing them since they've sat for so long and are close to 10 years?

Again....tthank you in advance for your responses.

V/R
Jared

Are you close to a DMC franchise? And by close, i mean a days drive? There are SO many bases to cover with a car that has sat this long, it would almost be worth the $300 - $400 to get a "Full Technical Inspection" completed so you literally have a list to work from.

Fuel system:

Do you need a new pump? Did the old one stop working? If it still works, don't replace it.
Hoses - you're call. A lot of us still run the original K-jet lines (and keep a fire extinguisher close by).
Accumulator - there are 5 possible areas for a hot start issue to occur (leaking injectors, cold start valve, primary pressure regulator, accumulator, bad fuel pump check valve) You'll have to run tests to see what is causing your problem before buying a new accumulator.
Injectors - run flow tests - they could all be good, some be good, or all bad. This is a big X-factor, and expense.
Distributor - check to see if your plunger is free or stuck. You may need a rebuild by a QUALIFIED DMC franchise.
Control Pressure Regulator - if your dizzy is seized, you probably need this rebuilt. You won't know if you have control pressure without a functioning system.
Freq Valve - they get stuck - a hammer can fix this :)

Brakes:

I drive my car 1500 mi a year and i still had a frozen piston after just 4 years since a rebuild. Chances are you need to rebuild and service your brakes AND clutch (if its a 5-spd)

Electronics - are you up to date? Old relays cause headaches - get a solid state RPM relay from Dave McKeen and never worry about ti again.

Tires - your call. stored inside? outside? cracked? maybe put that at the bottom of your list.

[Mark D]

Welcome to the forum first off :thumbup:

Glad to hear you're looking at getting your car running again. It sounds like you've got some history with your car never quite meeting your expectations. Hopefully once you're done with this upcoming round of maintenance you'll have a more reliable and enjoyable experience.

For the fuel system it sounds like you'll probably end up replacing most of the system before you'll be back in good shape. You'll want to inspect all the hoses at a minimum..you may end up wanting to replace anything rubber or plastic especially since the hoses at the fuel pump were crumbling/falling apart. Do you know if they were original or had they been replaced before? Sometimes if an incorrect hose is selected as a replacement they can degrade much faster than a hose meant for fuel. If you had hot start issues in the past you'll most likely need an accumulator. It sounds like a rebuilt fuel distributor is also in your future if you've run bad gas into the engine and it would not start afterwards. I've read injectors can be cleaned out if they are just dirty, but if you've sucked up a bunch of junk from the fuel tank and it has actually plugged the injectors you may end up replacing some or all of them. The fuel pump is also probably a given that it will need to be replaced. All these items can be tested in one way or another so you shouldn't need to just start throwing parts at it quite yet.

Brake pads and rotors don't really go bad from just sitting but you'll want to do a flush to the hydraulic system with new fluid and take note of any calipers that may be sticking or leaking and repair those right away. If you have firm pedal feel and your car is not pulling to one side or the other you should be OK with just a flush and bleeding out any air afterwards. Also check the engine coolant, trans fluid (ATF) and final drive (gear oil) and replace with fresh fluid. Belts and hoses are also rubber and can suffer from aging issues so check those too.

Check the date codes on your tires to see how old they are...there are websites that show you how to read and find the codes to determine when the tire was manufactured. You'll get varying opinions on how long tires should last, but most people say somewhere between 7-10 years before you want to replace. If the tires visually look OK with no signs of cracking on the side wall or dry rot you can probably get away with longer if you keep inspecting them regularly. I think UV and Ozone are the main killers of rubber tires, so if you've stored your car out of the sun there is a better chance they are OK. Once you get the car running again you should be able to tell if the tires developed any flat spots from sitting. I'm not sure how often this actually happens anymore with modern tires.

There are other threads here too where people have asked similar questions about waking up a car from hibernation. You should be able to find most of what your looking for, otherwise the DMC vendors are all very helpful and probably have more hands on experience than some of the armchair quarterbacks on the internet. Setting up a service appointment with your nearest DMC vendor for an inspection may be your best bet since you'll get a bullet pointed list of things that need fixing, usually in some prioritized order.

[DMCMW Dave]

Another thought - why not turbo charge your PRV? It's not uncommon for older turbo kits to come up for sale at attractive prices. You might have to get the turbos rebuilt, but that would be a cost effective way to boost your HP. If you felt bold you could upgrade the internals, which are readily available and help make the engine less susceptible to premature wear from forced induction.

Hmmm - we will probably have one of those available in a month or two. . .. .we're de-turboing a car. Will post more info later, at this point it time I have no idea of price, it will be late May at the earliest.

[David T]

Hmmm - we will probably have one of those available in a month or two. . .. .we're de-turboing a car. Will post more info later, at this point it time I have no idea of price, it will be late May at the earliest.

If you need any parts to "de-turbo" the car I have a whole set of parts off of a car that I "turboed" . As for "turboing" an automatic, not the best idea. To suggest customizing a car for someone who is not skilled enough to support the car is bad advice because every time you need to do anything it will be very expensive having someone do it and paying them for it. As suggested the best advice is to get the car running stock and then decide. Figure rebuilding the fuel system, brake system, and cooling system. New battery and possibly tires.

[Farrar]

As for "turboing" an automatic, not the best idea.

[Citation needed]

[Andrew]

There are a lot of performance upgrades that can be done with the stock PRV. I can personally speak of two upgrades: Single BAE Turbo and Peugeot carburation.

I've been running a BAE system on 4194 since 2003. The performance increase over stock is very noticeable. However, there is some lag as the big single Rajay spools up. I purchased the turbo already installed on an engine, so I can`t speculate on the difficulty of installation, but based upon a review of the instructions, it doesn't appear to be too difficult. I rebuilt my turbo last summer and can attest to the fact that it wasn't that difficult of a process

I'm running a carbureted fuel system from a 1978 Peugeot 604 with a dual Solex setup on 5052 and I have been very happy with the performance improvement over stock, especially when the secondaries kick in! It was a bolt on assembly that is completely reversible to stock. I sourced the Peugeot manifold and carbs from a junk yard car for purchased a new mechanical fuel pump for $45.00 which bolted to the stock PRV and installed new fuel lines etc.

There are also quite a few aftermarket exhaust options for the PRV. Most of the vendors are selling various header options. Another owner recently did a really nice write up on the performance improvements of headers over stock, complete with dyno results.

I would caution against an engine swap, as most underestimate the time, expense and logistics involved. The forums are filled with stories of half finished engine swaps. Of those engine swaps that are ultimately completed, people tend to run into problems associated with servicing and parts that come with having a "one of a kind" car. Thus if one does decide on an engine swap, I would highly recommend documenting every part and step of the process for future reference if needed. Even EFI aftermarket EFI systems can become difficult to service and source parts for.

That's just my $0.02.

Andrew
4194
5052