Front End Ride Height New stuff but too high

[1batt4u]

Hi all,

I am pretty much finished with my front end suspension. Painted parts, put new parts. I just didn't install sway bar, waiting on some washers to come in that I misplaced. Everything is torqued and in place.

I put in PJ Grady's front end lower springs, and I have Protech Shocks from Europe.

I finally lowered my car, but the height of the car is too high. Top of the tire to fender is almost 4 inches. I didn't measure the car before I took the original parts off, but it didn't sit that high.

What is the solution?? I'm confused.

http://i62.tinypic.com/20r8e1s.jpg

[DMCMW Dave]

Put up a picture from the front showing the suspension. This is way off somehow.

[1batt4u]

http://i62.tinypic.com/2nq5f8w.jpg

[DMCMW Dave]

Nothing really obvious other than you are missing a lot of weight up front- fascia, bumper, radiators, probably the hood, etc. Loosen all the long bolts and bounce it, maybe you tightened up all the bushings with the car hanging and bushing friction is holding it up. You should always tighten bolts going through rubber bushings with the suspension fully loaded.

Toss a couple hundred pounds of weight in the trunk and see how it sits.

[1batt4u]

Nothing really obvious other than you are missing a lot of weight up front- fascia, bumper, radiators, probably the hood, etc. Loosen all the long bolts and bounce it, maybe you tightened up all the bushings with the car hanging and bushing friction is holding it up. You should always tighten bolts going through rubber bushings with the suspension fully loaded.

Toss a couple hundred pounds of weight in the trunk and see how it sits.

I actually tightened all the bushings with the car on the ground, they were loose when I dropped it. Its way too high, higher than stock

[SS Spoiler]

Possible the springs were for the rear?

[DMCMW Dave]

Possible the springs were for the rear?

I was thinking the same thing except he said he only bought fronts. Time to talk to the seller.

[1batt4u]

I was thinking the same thing except he said he only bought fronts. Time to talk to the seller.

I bought them directly from PJ Grady himself. Front Lowering Springs. Don't know what else to say.

[fnzen]

imo you need more weight and settling

seems you have replaced all components bushings , lca ...

the steering tie rods should be more parallel to the ground after settling

i remember mine took a couple of rides to settle and then it was lowered

[1batt4u]

When I lowered the car, I lowered it really slow. You think I should have dropped it? Pick it up and drop it?

[fnzen]

your previous post "Everything is torqued and in place." yep its too tight to settle immediately

the long bolts through the lca and upper loosen those and then sit on the front end and bounce then check height

the springs need to settle into the collars and the shocks will settle also

then jack up and tighten

my feeble memory tells me thats how I did it

[1batt4u]

Do the shocks play a role? I have Peotech shocks with a knob on them. Was I supposed to turn them while lowering the car?

I was told to turn the knob counterclock so I can extend them easy out of the box.

[1batt4u]

Do the shocks play a role? I have Peotech shocks with a knob on them. Was I supposed to turn them while lowering the car?

I was told to turn the knob counterclock so I can extend them easy out of the box.

[David T]

New springs will "settle" over time. If you want to hurry the process up put some weight in the trunk. You should reset ride height. Once the springs settle loosen the control arm bolts and retorque with the car sitting on the ground.

[1batt4u]

New springs will "settle" over time. If you want to hurry the process up put some weight in the trunk. You should reset ride height. Once the springs settle loosen the control arm bolts and retorque with the car sitting on the ground.

Ok thank you very much! Looks like my post went in twice.

U have PJ Grady front lowering springs also? Just curious if they look the same. Few on here mentioned if those are not for front.

[David T]

Ok thank you very much! Looks like my post went in twice.

U have PJ Grady front lowering springs also? Just curious if they look the same. Few on here mentioned if those are not for front.

You should always discuss a product problem with the vender you bought it from first. They are the most familiar with their products and can give you the best answers.

[fnzen]

Do the shocks play a role? I have Peotech shocks with a knob on them. Was I supposed to turn them while lowering the car?

I was told to turn the knob counterclock so I can extend them easy out of the box.

Billy,

your shocks are fine the shock adjustment is typically for the amount of "bounce" stiffness and you will have to fiddle with that after driving for your taste

I was just making the point that new stuff has to "settle" in imo

[Bitsyncmaster]

I'm pretty sure my car has Grady front springs and my sits with the top of the tire to fender clearance about 1.5". My car came from Northern NJ and had a lot of Grady parts in it when I bought the car. If your using OEM rubber bushings those need to be tightened with all the weight back on the car. The poly bushing will rotate so that's not a problem with poly.

[DMC5180]

The Delorean front end ride height is very much influenced by weight loading. When letting a car down to the ground you also must ROLL OUT the suspension. The car must be restored to it's NORMAL driving weight. A full tank of gas is 13.2 Gal x 6.0 lbs gal. is almost 80 Lbs., Spare tire if carried approx 25 to 30lbs. Factor in luggage or tools/parts/fluids you might not leave home with out. Driver weight. The front end can change dramatically. Remember this is not conventional Platform vehicle. Most vehicles have engines up front than don't change the weight loading, but the trunk on the other hand can carry greatly, hence load leveling technology use.

The gas charge in your shocks could have some influence ride height, but the damping should not, that only effects ride quality. too soft - hard or just right.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I just bought a set of gas struts for my 2005 Malibu and it states "gas charged shocks" can change the ride height.

[chris williams]

Protech shocks are oil filled not gas filled, I have recently fitted these to the front of my DeLorean and they had no effect on ride height.
Chris

[1batt4u]

So I finally got the front end down. :smile: I guess it needed weight in the front.

I loosened the bolts under, upper and lower control arms and lower shock bolts. I was pushing down as hard as I could to see if it budges, but nothing. I took the hood off the car, it was already loose, not mounted. I put in the front trunk my 3.5 ton jack, which weighs about 93 pounds, I put a thick foam pad under for protection, and 3 big black bags of leaves I had on the side of house.

I pushed down on each side and the car went down!! I was so happy!! I even sat on each side, hopped a little get it to sit good. I measured from cement to fender and was 24". After I took everything out of the trunk and put the hood back, it went up again, to 26.5".

So I guess once entire front fascia is on, radiator/condenser/fans, spare tire, and all other things the car will go back down again and I will tighten the bolts then.

What measurements do you all have with PJ Grady front lowering springs?

I believe I saw 23.75" somewhere.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Like I said before, I'm pretty sure I have Grady's old front springs.

[krs09]

Ok thank you very much! Looks like my post went in twice.

U have PJ Grady front lowering springs also? Just curious if they look the same. Few on here mentioned if those are not for front.

I just installed new PJ Grady front lowering springs and kept everything else the same (did replace one lower control arm bushing and installed the front safety recall kit). Mine did seem high if not same as stock when i was done but now 2 weeks later the car looks much better. It just looks normal not "slammed" to the ground, love it. That being said yours does look very high, I would think that's a lot settling.

[PJ Grady Inc.]

Sorry for the late response but I've been out of town from Thursday through Monday and was extremely busy.
The final ride height with our, or anyone's for that matter, lowering springs can not be determined until a car is fully assembled. filled with gas, AND DRIVEN FOR ABOUT 500 MILES. I HAVE FIELDED MANY CALLS FROM OWERS WHO WORRY ABOUT THE RIDE HEIGHT BEFORE THE CAR HAS EVEN BEEN ROADTESTED. Unfortunately springs must reseat themselves into the rubber isolators and the only way to do this is to drive the car and give the springs time to "seat" properly. It is not the springs that settle but rather all the rubber bushings and the isolator in particular that do so.
Our front springs are designed to ride 1.5" to 2" lower than stock which varies somwhat from car to car so I'm hesitant to suggest a final ride height as there is significant variances involved. It usually works out to between 24" to 24.5" but it depends mainly on what the preinstalled ride height was. It is always best to carefully measure height both before the car is modified and again after the car has been lowered and driven roughly 500 miles before determining your final height. Bear in mind your measurements will only be as accurate as your floor surface is flat and level.
The car cannot be accurately aligned to the final spec before this bedding in occurs. The suspension will either need to be realigned after break-in or the initial alignment can be approximated using a toe-in gauge or even a tape measure if you don't want to pay for a professional alignment twice. This applies to not only our springs but any lowering springs you put in a Delorean IMHO.
Rob Grady



I just installed new PJ Grady front lowering springs and kept everything else the same (did replace one lower control arm bushing and installed the front safety recall kit). Mine did seem high if not same as stock when i was done but now 2 weeks later the car looks much better. It just looks normal not "slammed" to the ground, love it. That being said yours does look very high, I would think that's a lot settling.

[Henrik]

I believe I saw 23.75" somewhere.

That's exactly what I have. I have DMCH Eibach setup. However, tank is empty and steering wheel, driver's seat, part of the IP and gear shifter mechanism are removed at the moment. Oh, engine and tranny is out too but that probably has no effect on the front ride height at all.

[PJ Grady Inc.]

Every bit of weight has an effect and the engine and trasnmission are not exempt just because they're located aft but of course their affect on the rear height is far greater than the front for the same reason.
Rob

That's exactly what I have. I have DMCH Eibach setup. However, tank is empty and steering wheel, driver's seat, part of the IP and gear shifter mechanism are removed at the moment. Oh, engine and tranny is out too but that probably has no effect on the front ride height at all.

[PJ Grady Inc.]

Since you mentioned your car was worked on by us I looked for and found your file. We worked on the car in 1998 for an auto repair shop in New jersey. The car had been sitting for years so we did a lot of mechanical but no cosmetic work. There is no record of us putting lowered springs in but I believe after the initial restoration the shop owner (and the car's as well) ordered and installed additional parts at later dates. My computer records from that far back are not avaliable to verify this however.
Looking at your ride height of about 24.25" (measured at the fender edge for accuracy) I'd say it's safe to say that those are my springs as most of the four spring kits (Eibach etc.) sit lower than that. I've always thought that heights lower than 24" sacrifice too much suspension travel and ride height. It also makes achieving sufficient toe-in with the stock steering rack problematical and lowers the tie-rods below the ideal parallel to the ground position. The other reason I've never bothered with 4 spring kits is that all the aftermarket performance shock kits incorporate a preload/ride height adjustment making a 4 spring kit redundant and uneccessary IMHO.
Rob Grady

Like I said before, I'm pretty sure I have Grady's old front springs.

[Lou and "Boo"]

Rob, my car was worked on by you before I bought it. Can you please PM me a service record? VIN 5835

Thank you.
Louis Duet

[Bitsyncmaster]

Since you mentioned your car was worked on by us I looked for and found your file. We worked on the car in 1998 for an auto repair shop in New jersey. The car had been sitting for years so we did a lot of mechanical but no cosmetic work. There is no record of us putting lowered springs in but I believe after the initial restoration the shop owner (and the car's as well) ordered and installed additional parts at later dates. My computer records from that far back are not avaliable to verify this however.
Looking at your ride height of about 24.25" (measured at the fender edge for accuracy) I'd say it's safe to say that those are my springs as most of the four spring kits (Eibach etc.) sit lower than that. I've always thought that heights lower than 24" sacrifice too much suspension travel and ride height. It also makes achieving sufficient toe-in with the stock steering rack problematical and lowers the tie-rods below the ideal parallel to the ground position. The other reason I've never bothered with 4 spring kits is that all the aftermarket performance shock kits incorporate a preload/ride height adjustment making a 4 spring kit redundant and uneccessary IMHO.
Rob Grady

Thanks for that info. I did have all the Zilla units, the orange fuel pump hoses and I saw stainless front brake pistons. The last owner also said it had a new clutch.

[PJ Grady Inc.]

Hi Louis,

I don't normally provide potocopies of service files for one unfortunate reason. It is not simply "a service record". The hard copies I keep in the customer folder per standard industry practice do not photocopy well at all so it becomes necessary to go through binders full of top copy RO's to locate each individual RO over a possible thirty four year strech of time. This creates an extremely laborious & time consuming task on an "as per request" basis. Your file for example contains thirty one repair orders from 1987 through 1993. In addition to being outdated from a maintenance standpoint I or my paid employee would need to spend hours releasing thousands of repair orders from their binders, sorting them by sequence, copying them, and then reverse the process to get them back in place and in the binder draws again. It would take literally hours to photocopy that service file.

When I explained this to you some years ago you apparently took exception to it judging from your very recent post in DMC Today but honestly it would cost me A LOT of money to provide this service. I can't do that for even good customers free of charge so how could I justify doing it for someone who says "I refuse to use him for anything". I wish you could have been a bit more understanding of this situation but obviously you have an American born, internet granted, right to flame anybody you wish to for any reason.

Actually I never singled you out with this policy and every other vender I'm aware of has a similiar policy for the same reasons. I generally purge the top copies now after ten years anyway as you'd be surprised the volumn all that paperwork takes up. So in older cases such as yours I can't provide legible photocopies even if you did pay for them! Regretably I can't assist you in this matter. I'm sorry that I made you so angry and that you have such a negative attitude about me personally but I made the right call here. I like to think of myself as one of the "good guys" in this business but I realize it's your right to disagree.
Rob Grady



Rob, my car was worked on by you before I bought it. Can you please PM me a service record? VIN 5835

Thank you.
Louis Duet

[Nicholas R]

I remember back when I lowered my car. Like Rob said, it took about 500 miles or so before the suspension settled into it's proper position. During that time you'd periodically hear a "DOING" whenever one of the bushings adjusted it's position and the spring had a new resting position.

[Lou and "Boo"]

Rob, well said. I apologize for my words and I will post a retracting statement on DMC Today.

Louis

[PJ Grady Inc.]

No problem. Thank you for that and apology accepted.
Rob


Rob, well said. I apologize for my words and I will post a retracting statement on DMC Today.

Louis

[David T]

After a certain point service records lose their usefulness. It may be nice from a historical prospective but of little use for maintenance purposes. Of more value would be the "Chain-of-Ownership" which shows each owner, the dates and the mileage. You get that by requesting searches of each State's DMV records that the car was Titled in. The prices and procedures vary in each State.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I was parked on a steep down hill (front pointing down) yesterday and my front end looked way to low. I did have a full tank of gas and about 50 lbs of tools in the front. I looked under the car and the springs looked almost fully compressed. I though maybe something changed but when I got home I measured both sides and it was 24" to the fender lip over the wheel. That was the first time I noticed parking like that lowered the front.

[PJ Grady Inc.]

The addition of extra weight in the trunk is magnified when the front of the car is on a downward slope as more of the engines weight is transfered to the front suspension. I have traveled to DMC shows/events in my lowered green car for many years and can verify that weight added or deleted from the trunk has a larger affect on a Delorean than most cars because of the light front end and weight distribution. Hence my car sits lower than normal when attending these shows because of the large amount of luggage and parts that are stowed there for these events. Because of this some people assume my car rides lower than it actually does when the trunk is empty. That observation can cause confusion when they order our springs expecting a "low-rider" look. I think that the best level of lowering is 1.5" to 2" but many younger owners want to lower it further. Doing so can create suspension and tire wear issues that are compounded when adding weight to the mix. IMHO a 24" to 24.5" ride height is about the best compromise for comfort, appearance, tire wear, loadholding and roadholding. Even then as you found out a little weight combined with an incline can "upset the applecart". I am experimenting now with stiffer (than stock) front springs for these very reasons.
Rob

QUOTE=Bitsyncmaster;173964]I was parked on a steep down hill (front pointing down) yesterday and my front end looked way to low. I did have a full tank of gas and about 50 lbs of tools in the front. I looked under the car and the springs looked almost fully compressed. I though maybe something changed but when I got home I measured both sides and it was 24" to the fender lip over the wheel. That was the first time I noticed parking like that lowered the front.[/QUOTE]

[Bitsyncmaster]

I just did my struts on my 2005 Malibu and those springs had very few coils compared to your springs. Why do some springs need fewer coils which gives the springs more travel before they are fully compressed?

[PJ Grady Inc.]

I asked an engineer at my spring manufacturer why there were more coils on my earlier springs than stock since the rate was the same but did not get a clearcut answer from him. He did say however the coils per inch AKA pitch could be changed without affecting the rate. So I asked him to modify our design to allow more spacing in the pitch to make installing a spring compressor more easily. That is the only change to our latest batch of springs but as I mentioned earlier I am also experimenting with a slightly higher rate spring with good results. More to follow at a future date.
Rob


I just did my struts on my 2005 Malibu and those springs had very few coils compared to your springs. Why do some springs need fewer coils which gives the springs more travel before they are fully compressed?