At what point is a DeLorean no longer a DeLorean?

[sdg3205]

You've heard the arguments for years from the pro-life vs pro-choicers, but it's always been a question I've thought about at length when it comes to the DeLorean (well, any car for that matter, but lets stick with DeLoreans here).

Is a DeLorean only a Delorean to you if it remains today as it left the factory OR is Will.i.Am's (http://jalopnik.com/5919274/williams-extremely-illegal-delorean-impounded-by-police) atrocity still a DeLorean? At what point TO YOU does a DeLorean CEASE to be a DeLorean? How many parts and pieces have to disappear?

Personally - though I think they're rad - a DeLorean is certainly much less of a DeLorean to me once the PRV is swapped out. I see the engine as the heart or soul of the car, for better or for worse, with it's inherent flaws and shortcomings AND it's positivities. If someone walked up to me and said "I'll pay you $5,000 and install a v8 in your DeLorean," I'd turn it down. It wouldn't be a DeLorean to me anymore.

On the other hand, I could see some people argue that a v8, power steering, electric power train or modern dash/interior is simply a better realization of JZD's dream and therefore - naturally - a DeLorean.

I'm curious where people fall along the continuum.

When is a DeLorean, no longer a DeLorean?

[kenny]

IMO William's car is not a delorean anymore.
I certainly wouldn't say an engine swapped D is no longer a delorean.
It looks like the USA guys seem to be more inclined to do complete engine swaps than the Europeans who seem to be more inclined to work with/ upgrade the PRV if they want more power.
It could be the availability/knowledge of PRV parts in Europe
Or
It may be that there are way more cars in the US so there are proportionally more engine swapped cars.

[Jonathan]

Other than the Will.I.Am car, I can't think of any other car out there that wouldn't still be considered a DeLorean.

I think of it this way, if a car with an engine swap, any engine swap, drove into a cruise night, people standing around would still be pointing and saying "hey look, it's a DeLorean!" That same thing would hold true for just about any parts changed out with new or altered or modified, no matter how drastic. Even the painted ones, or Project DeLorean sort of things, would still get the comment "it's a DeLorean." It seems you could change them as much as Rich has done with the D-Limo or D-Rex and the only way they ever get referred to are as "DeLorean" limos or "DeLorean" monster trucks.

I've not seen the Will.I.Am car up close or in person and don't know what kind of reaction it gets when it comes out (legally or otherwise). I expect people might say something like "it's a DeLorean underneath" but they also might say "it WAS a DeLorean."

If the Will.I.Am car is really close to no longer being a DeLorean, the only other thing I can think of that always gets the comment "it WAS a DeLorean" is the one that got smushed in a car crash.

[jackb]

Stainless body panels
Gullwing doors
Rear engine

As long as it retains all of those 3, it's still a Delorean. Change every other thing in the car, and it will only be a heavily modded Delorean. But you have to keep those 3.

The stainless can be painted or wrapped and it's ok, as long as it's present underneath.
Is there another more distinguishing thing about the Delorean other than the doors? This is THE distinctive feature, 10x more than the stainless, even.
I can't even imagine how to make it a FWD car.

[mr_maxime]

I don't see why some people get so upset about other people's car mods. It's their car. To me it stops being a delorean around when a certain amount of what makes the car look like a delorean has been changed.

Engine swaps don't matter at all to me considering this engine is not unique to the delorean. Engines that get used in more than one car cannot be the heart of it to me. Only the delorean has those stainless body panels, those gull wing doors and those body lines.

[Patrick C]

Do I still have a DeLorean???

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=34931&d=1433944225

[ssdelorean]

Personally I would say looks & feel. WilI'm's car was a DeLorean and resembles a DeLorean. It kind of is but not. The word "modified" has to be used when referring to his car. i.e. Modified DeLorean and not just a DeLorean.

The whole engine swap not being a DeLorean thought process is kinda interesting to ponder (since that is not how they came from the factory). Yes this might be hair splitting but still interesting.

So then, would Proto 1 and the Legend cars be DeLoreans? Proto by definition is a preliminary model of something else to come. Also, Proto 1 does not have the NOS PRV6. Yes it was built under direction of the company but it did not come from the factory (it was built before the factory). And the Legend cars left the factory and were modified by Legend. Granted they have the same base powerplant but 80 or so percent of the internals are totally new/different than stock factory parts.

[Jonathan]

Patrick, I was thinking of making a reference to your car! Yes, definitely still a DeLorean! Out of all the cars that have mods, I've always thought yours had some of the best things done to it and in a way that the factory might have chosen to do them had they lasted longer. Very nice and very tasteful (IMO).

[Dangermouse]

As we really don't know what the chassis and drivetrain are under the IamAuto bodywork, it's hard to say. Even if it has a Chrysler powerplant as mentioned by Mr. I.Am, it's still probably registered as an 81 DeLorean. If it still has the PRV and double Y backbone chassis, is it any different from Steve Stankiewicz's ProtoDeLorean (in terms of being considered a delorean?) Fancy duds over a stock layout, the attractiveness of said duds are then just a matter of taste.

[Rich_NYS]

Other than the Will.I.Am car, I can't think of any other car out there that wouldn't still be considered a DeLorean.




Stainless body panels
Gullwing doors


+1

[Rich_NYS]

Do I still have a DeLorean???

Yours is totally not a DeLorean anymore. If you put the stock wheels back on, you'll have a DeLorean again.

[sdg3205]

I don't see why some people get so upset about other people's car mods.

Let me be perfectly clear. I am not anti-mod. I am not anti-engine swap. Did you read the first post where I said they were "rad" and a "better realization of JZD's dream?"

I can't begin to fathom the amount of time, energy and money guys like Nick and Josh have put into their swaps. I respect the hell out of them.

This is not a bash-a-mod thread, it's simply a philosophical discussion. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Rich_NYS]

Yours is totally not a DeLorean anymore. If you put the stock wheels back on, you'll have a DeLorean again.

Joking, BTW...

[Jonathan]

Joking, BTW...

Pffff... only automatics are considered real DeLoreans. :)

[davidc89]

What's a DeLorean?

I get that question a lot regardless of its unique features. I like some of the painted cars out there, but I feel as though it takes away from "being a DeLorean."

A friend of mine asked me the other day:
If your car wasn't stainless steel would you have bought it?
Yes.
If your car didn't have gull wing doors would you have bought it?
No.

+1 on the gull wing doors

[Farrar]

Does it have stainless steel body panels and gullwing doors? It's a DeLorean.

John DeLorean was adamant about stainless steel body panels and gullwing doors. Everything else about the car was negotiable, and ultimately ended up a compromise compared to what might have been produced given more time and/or money.

PRV engine? Not the original choice. That would have been a mid-mounted turbocharged flat 4.
Epoxy-coated steel frame? Not the original choice. That would have been stainless steel sub-frames attached to the body.
Fiberglass body? Not the original choice. That would have been a VARI body.

One could argue that the "real" DeLorean would have been Proto 1 plus air conditioning and a turbocharger. But that vehicle, for many reasons, could not be mass-produced.

It doesn't really matter, though. It's like saying that the only "true" episode of Star Trek is the unaired pilot "The Cage," because it was the only episode made 100% as Gene Roddenberry wanted it. NBC rightly said it wouldn't appeal to the masses. Compromises were made in order to get the show on the air, and then changes were made over the years that it was on to make it more to Roddenberry's liking. What we ended up with in the case of Star Trek was a profit-making franchise which will, it seems, go on forever. And what we ended up with in the case of the DMC-12 was the first car to be produced by a company which needed to produce something quickly in order to start paying back its loans. No doubt if the company had continued the DeLorean would have, like Star Trek, morphed into something better than the first few examples. Nonetheless, because of the choices made, we have thousands of the cars around, instead of two or three one-offs too rare and expensive for most of us to enjoy, made by a company that never got off the ground. The DMC-12 isn't perfect, but it's what we got, and considering its origin, it's pretty remarkable.

[Jimmyvonviggle]

I even think will.i.am's car is a Delorean. If they have a Delorean VIN they are a DeLorean.

Can the opposite be true as well? Can all those Fieros modded up to look like Dino's and every other Ferrari be considered a Ferrari?

[Totally 80s]

Everyone knows that any car built after 1982 is not a "real" Delorean.

[Jonathan]

It doesn't really matter, though. It's like saying that the only "true" episode of Star Trek is the unaired pilot "The Cage,"...

C'mon, the only real sci-fi franchise worth watching was/is Star Wars. ;)


Everyone knows that any car built after 1982 is not a "real" Delorean.

Haha, nice.

I believe the line I heard when asking your buddies while in perverts row at the nudio "you think those are real?" is... "they're real if you can touch 'em"

So... it is a real DeLorean if you can touch it. If you can't touch it, it is imaginary. Pretty simple.

[mr_maxime]

Let me be perfectly clear. I am not anti-mod. I am not anti-engine swap. Did you read the first post where I said they were "rad" and a "better realization of JZD's dream?"

I can't begin to fathom the amount of time, energy and money guys like Nick and Josh have put into their swaps. I respect the hell out of them.

This is not a bash-a-mod thread, it's simply a philosophical discussion. Nothing more, nothing less.

That wasn't directed at you. I've seen some references about certain deloreans being ruined by mods every now and then. I specifically remember seeing some on the protodelorean youtube video. Having a painted car, I often get comments about it taking away from the delorean aspect, but 99% of the time those people don't even own one. I enjoy mods since seeing a car done the same way over and over tends to get boring.

I would say it's a delorean as long as people see it and ask if it has a flux capacitor though.

[Alan]

I would say it's a delorean as long as people see it and ask if it has a flux capacitor though.

That was going to be my answer. If the public at large makes BTTF comments about it, it's (recognizable as) a DeLorean.

[steve]

Everyone knows that any car built after 1982 is not a "real" Delorean.

Well I have an 83 and it has the same shitty parts as the 81. :wink:
So I guess I have a Delorean. 8)

Steve

[PJK]

I think this is a really interesting question. I've always thoughts about it when watching Barrett Jackson auctions (or the like) when they sell a "1 of 4" type restored ferrari (bentley, etc.) for millions of dollars that has been completely, and totally restored/rebuilt... every nut, bolt, panel, interior, etc. At what point is the original car gone, and it simply becomes a re-creation of the original? To me, polishing an old VIN tag and mounting said tag on a car that is 95% or more new (and often hand-built), doesn't mean it is the same car anymore. To put it another way, if you build two cars side-by-side, and then add an original VIN to one, and not the other, why is one car "rare" and worth a lot of money, while the other isn't?

Having said all this, I generally prefer modded cars (though I can respect completely original cars).

[Timebender]

I would say it's a delorean as long as people see it and ask if it has a flux capacitor though.

Interestingly, the latest common BTTF reference question I get is "Where's MISTER FUSION?" Like THAT'S what makes time travel even possible.


Amateurs.

[mr_maxime]

I do prefer questions about the paint over bttf. I'd rather defend my painted car than answer bttf questions.

[refugeefromcalif]

Interestingly, the latest common BTTF reference question I get is "Where's MISTER FUSION?" Like THAT'S what makes time travel even possible.


Amateurs.

The thing I've noticed on social media is when a DeLorean is photographed, (From the outside and usually from behind), the comments tend to be, "Where's the Flux Capacitor?" (As if it can be seen from the outside).
Mr. Fusion though can, if it's there...
I agree. Mr. Fusion is just the Catalyst(?) for the FC.

George

[Jonathan]

Again, putting aside the Will.I.Am car for a minute, are there any DeLoreans you know of that someone seeing it cruise by wouldn't say "hey, look a DeLorean/the car from BTTF!"? You can paint 'em, put different rims on 'em, time machine convert them, or drop a different engine in them. They still get the "holy sh!t, a DeLorean!"

What happens when you have a '69 Dodge Charger that isn't painted that particular orange, doesn't have a Confederation flag on the hood and a big 01 number on the doors?

What happens when you see a 1959 Cadillac Ambulance Limo that doesn't have a picture of a ghost on the door with gadgets and gizmos and lights on the roof?

And what happens when you see a 1982 Pontiac Trans Am that's not painted black, doesn't have a half steering wheel and other cool instrument cluster things, and doesn't talk or chase bad guys?

...Cars that nobody notices.

(ok, granted you're not going to see too many 1959 Cadillac Ambulance Limos around whether they're converted to Ecto-1s or not.)

What happens when you see a DeLorean... of any description?

"Holy sh!t, it's a DeLorean!"

...I think a DeLorean is always going to be a DeLorean... or at least recognized as a DeLorean.

[Rich_NYS]

^ Thatsa helluva good post, mister!

[MTDMC]

That was going to be my answer. If the public at large makes BTTF comments about it, it's (recognizable as) a DeLorean.

When I'm at a car show, some of them have registration cards that have special features, I write, (Do not ask about the Flux Capacitor.)

[Shep]

Recognition of being a DeLorean? Case in point: I look at the Will.I.Am car and instantly recognize it as a modernized (and to many also bastardized) DeLorean. BTTF conversions? Still DeLoreans. That Proto version that's been heavily modified? Still a DeLorean, although some might not recognize it at all. Any of Rich W's mods? Still DeLoreans. Guy with a silver Bricklin? Swing and a miss.

Or one could take an even simpler approach: what's it titled as? What does the VIN trace back to? How does your local government and/or DMV view it? If they say it's a Delorean, it's a DeLorean. If they say it's not, it's not. Simple.

[Andy]

Again, putting aside the Will.I.Am car for a minute, are there any DeLoreans you know of that someone seeing it cruise by wouldn't say "hey, look a DeLorean/the car from BTTF!"? You can paint 'em, put different rims on 'em, time machine convert them, or drop a different engine in them. They still get the "holy sh!t, a DeLorean!"

What happens when you have a '69 Dodge Charger that isn't painted that particular orange, doesn't have a Confederation flag on the hood and a big 01 number on the doors?

What happens when you see a 1959 Cadillac Ambulance Limo that doesn't have a picture of a ghost on the door with gadgets and gizmos and lights on the roof?

And what happens when you see a 1982 Pontiac Trans Am that's not painted black, doesn't have a half steering wheel and other cool instrument cluster things, and doesn't talk or chase bad guys?

...Cars that nobody notices.

(ok, granted you're not going to see too many 1959 Cadillac Ambulance Limos around whether they're converted to Ecto-1s or not.)

What happens when you see a DeLorean... of any description?

"Holy sh!t, it's a DeLorean!"

...I think a DeLorean is always going to be a DeLorean... or at least recognized as a DeLorean.

That's not always true, what you're saying there ; if you are into cars (or even just 'like' cars) then people are gonna recognize it as 'a Delorean'. But I've had people who called mine a Lamborghini, a Renault Alpine, a Renault Fuego, a Porsche, even a kitcar was mentioned one time ... and always people who aren't into cars. Usually friendly people who don't know otherwise, because they have nothing with cars. So wether you would show them a Dodge Charger, een Cadillac hearse, a Pontiac Firebird or a DeLorean, they won't see 'it'! So this works only it you are a 'car buff', like me ...

PS. I once had a girlfriend who didn't know what car she was driving herself, so when I mentioned I had a DeLorean at one point, she looked at me like I came out of space ... :-)

[SIMid]

PS. I once had a girlfriend who didn't know what car she was driving herself, so when I mentioned I had a DeLorean at one point, she looked at me like I came out of space ... :-)

Haha!! And when she saw it, "it looked like an airplane, without wings".

[Andy]

Haha!! And when she saw it, "it looked like an airplane, without wings".

Actually, she couldn't care less what I was driving .... She once went with me to a local carshow and she was bored to death, nagging me to go home after viewing 3 cars ...

For the record, I'm happely married now to a woman who can appreciate my hobbies, she even has a classic car herself ... :-)

[Timebender]

When is a DeLorean no longer a DeLorean?


When it turns into a driveway.


Badump, crash!


Mic dropped.

[Kenny_Z]

I don't think WillIAm's car is a DeLorean anymore. Too much has changed. However, I haven't seen any other DeLorean changed that drastically. Wait, one other, the Hardcastle and Mccormick Coyote.

If the stainless is gone (painted doesn't count as gone) then the car isn't a DeLorean anymore. At least to me.

[Timebender]

I don't think WillIAm's car is a DeLorean anymore. Too much has changed. However, I haven't seen any other DeLorean changed that drastically. Wait, one other, the Hardcastle and Mccormick Coyote.

If the stainless is gone (painted doesn't count as gone) then the car isn't a DeLorean anymore. At least to me.

Does the Coyote run on a DeLorean chassis? I always thought it was a lengthened VW pan.


edit: Just looked it up. Well well. Learn something new every day.

[David T]

Does the Coyote run on a DeLorean chassis? I always thought it was a lengthened VW pan.


edit: Just looked it up. Well well. Learn something new every day.

This is a very philosophical argument and it all depends on definitions. One example is about George Washington's famous hatchet. It's the second head and the third handle but it is still? the original hatchet????? There was a case of where someone found an old motor and built the car around it and had it vinned and Titled with the motor's serial # Another person found the original car and used it's vin and serial # (which happened to be the same as the motor's number) and found a motor to put in it. Which is the original car and who is to say? If anyone has seen Curtis's car at one of the DCS shows is it still a Delorean? How about D Rex or the hovercraft or the limo or the one with 2 motors?