Purflux LS410C oil filter replacement from Killer Filter

[dmruschell]

http://www.amazon.com/Killer-Filter-Replacement-PURFLUX-LS410C/dp/B00AZSZ76O/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1434937162&sr=1-1&keywords=ls410c+purflux

In case anyone didn't know, the Purflux LS410 was the original recommended oil filter for the DeLorean. I was wondering if anyone had seen this, or had any experience with Killer Filters in the past. I only really ask out of curiosity, as I know one of the owners of a Legend car, and the current cross references don't fit properly due to clearance issues. I'm fine with using the current Bosch offering and the Purolator that it cross references to.

[Chris 16409]

I use the German Bosch filter:

35157

[jmettee]

From what I gathered on the internet, the Purflux OEM had no bypass & no anti-drainback valve, which is likely why it can't be found anymore...obsolete design. All of the parts catalogs call for a wide-diameter filter that was also used on Volvos. On the Parflux, the lack of bypass meant that ALL of the oil passed through the filter, & if it clogged, then you didn't get sufficient oil flow.

The German Bosch (0 451 103 033, which is also part number 72150) has both bypass & anti-drainback. The bypass is listed as 36 PSI. I believe this is what the vendors sell. It's a smaller diameter, about 2.99" & 4.84" long with a 3/4-16 thread.

I use the easier to find & cheaper Bosch filter (US-made, I think) that I get at Autozone. It's a Bosch 3421 (measures 2.98" diameter X 4.47" long) & has a listed bypass of 25-35 PSI. It crosses to Purolator L24466 & L20252 (identical filters except 1 is about 1/4" longer) & they both are listed at 25-35 PSI bypass. The Wix 51393 is another cross-reference with 3.02" diameter x 4.82" length & 30 PSI bypass.

Note that there are other filters of the same size, but with the more common 8-16 PSI bypass valve. Shop manual C:11:01 says our oil pressure should be 32 PSI @ 900 RPM & 65 PSI @ 4000 RPM (warm engine & oil). With those pressures, it's probably better to use the higher pressure filters so that the oil is not constantly pushing over the bypass & not getting filtered.

Other than originality, I'd say there's no good reason to find a Parflux & pay extra for old design. The modern filters likely filter better. I assume that the PRV does not have a built in bypass to compensate for it lacking in the original Parflux.

Killer Filter lists no specs at all & their website is very lacking. I'd stay away.

[BABIS]

the modern Purflux replacement is the code LS880A (I don't know if it's available in the US), and it's the one recommended for the later generations of PRVs..

[jmettee]

the modern Purflux replacement is the code LS880A (I don't know if it's available in the US), and it's the one recommended for the later generations of PRVs..

Are you sure about LS880A? That part number lists a metric thread, M20X1.5 instead of 3/4-16.

On the Purflux website, it says that LS498C is the replacement for LS410C & it does have the same thread. But it doesn't list anything about bypass valve or anti-drain-back features.

[BABIS]

Are you sure about LS880A? That part number lists a metric thread, M20X1.5 instead of 3/4-16.

On the Purflux website, it says that LS498C is the replacement for LS410C & it does have the same thread. But it doesn't list anything about bypass valve or anti-drain-back features.

Yes sorry I confused the code from my newer motor. the number I have for the older PRVs (delorean, volvo) is LS149

[David T]

From what I gathered on the internet, the Purflux OEM had no bypass & no anti-drainback valve, which is likely why it can't be found anymore...obsolete design. All of the parts catalogs call for a wide-diameter filter that was also used on Volvos. On the Parflux, the lack of bypass meant that ALL of the oil passed through the filter, & if it clogged, then you didn't get sufficient oil flow.

The German Bosch (0 451 103 033, which is also part number 72150) has both bypass & anti-drainback. The bypass is listed as 36 PSI. I believe this is what the vendors sell. It's a smaller diameter, about 2.99" & 4.84" long with a 3/4-16 thread.

I use the easier to find & cheaper Bosch filter (US-made, I think) that I get at Autozone. It's a Bosch 3421 (measures 2.98" diameter X 4.47" long) & has a listed bypass of 25-35 PSI. It crosses to Purolator L24466 & L20252 (identical filters except 1 is about 1/4" longer) & they both are listed at 25-35 PSI bypass. The Wix 51393 is another cross-reference with 3.02" diameter x 4.82" length & 30 PSI bypass.

Note that there are other filters of the same size, but with the more common 8-16 PSI bypass valve. Shop manual C:11:01 says our oil pressure should be 32 PSI @ 900 RPM & 65 PSI @ 4000 RPM (warm engine & oil). With those pressures, it's probably better to use the higher pressure filters so that the oil is not constantly pushing over the bypass & not getting filtered.

Other than originality, I'd say there's no good reason to find a Parflux & pay extra for old design. The modern filters likely filter better. I assume that the PRV does not have a built in bypass to compensate for it lacking in the original Parflux.

Killer Filter lists no specs at all & their website is very lacking. I'd stay away.


Refer to C:10:01 fig 109. The oil pump has a relief valve built in. The oil filter should not have a bypass in it. If it does it should be as high as you can get it. The Purflux LS410 B has an anti drain-back valve so any replacement should also have one. As much as we might like to think filter technology has improved, the original filter was pretty good. James Espey did a comparison a while back, cutting open a Purflux and some "replacement crossovers". The replacements were very inferior inside.

[jmettee]

Refer to C:10:01 fig 109. The oil pump has a relief valve built in. The oil filter should not have a bypass in it. If it does it should be as high as you can get it. The Purflux LS410 B has an anti drain-back valve so any replacement should also have one. As much as we might like to think filter technology has improved, the original filter was pretty good. James Espey did a comparison a while back, cutting open a Purflux and some "replacement crossovers". The replacements were very inferior inside.

Thanks David, I missed that. Good to know - I might try to see what I can do to find a better filter that will fit our cars. I just found a small handful of candidates - if I find that the seals match up, then I might have some options to share.

[David T]

Thanks David, I missed that. Good to know - I might try to see what I can do to find a better filter that will fit our cars. I just found a small handful of candidates - if I find that the seals match up, then I might have some options to share.

There are a lot of specifications that pertain to automotive filters. It is way more than what physically fits. Filtering capacity, micron range, burst pressure, and internal valves among many others. To reduce inventory it seems many have loosened up their spec requirements to allow more cross/over choices and that way they can stock less different types of filters. I think DMCH is now selling Mann filters because the Purflux is NLA. There is still some old inventory of Purflux out there if you look for it. They are pricey compared to more popular or generic ones. One way to find cross/over candidates is to get the Purflux specs and see what matches up (not just the external physical aspects). Good luck trying to find that!

[dmruschell]

From what I gathered on the internet, the Purflux OEM had no bypass & no anti-drainback valve, which is likely why it can't be found anymore...obsolete design. All of the parts catalogs call for a wide-diameter filter that was also used on Volvos. On the Parflux, the lack of bypass meant that ALL of the oil passed through the filter, & if it clogged, then you didn't get sufficient oil flow.

The German Bosch (0 451 103 033, which is also part number 72150) has both bypass & anti-drainback. The bypass is listed as 36 PSI. I believe this is what the vendors sell. It's a smaller diameter, about 2.99" & 4.84" long with a 3/4-16 thread.

I use the easier to find & cheaper Bosch filter (US-made, I think) that I get at Autozone. It's a Bosch 3421 (measures 2.98" diameter X 4.47" long) & has a listed bypass of 25-35 PSI. It crosses to Purolator L24466 & L20252 (identical filters except 1 is about 1/4" longer) & they both are listed at 25-35 PSI bypass. The Wix 51393 is another cross-reference with 3.02" diameter x 4.82" length & 30 PSI bypass.

Note that there are other filters of the same size, but with the more common 8-16 PSI bypass valve. Shop manual C:11:01 says our oil pressure should be 32 PSI @ 900 RPM & 65 PSI @ 4000 RPM (warm engine & oil). With those pressures, it's probably better to use the higher pressure filters so that the oil is not constantly pushing over the bypass & not getting filtered.

Other than originality, I'd say there's no good reason to find a Parflux & pay extra for old design. The modern filters likely filter better. I assume that the PRV does not have a built in bypass to compensate for it lacking in the original Parflux.

Killer Filter lists no specs at all & their website is very lacking. I'd stay away.

Justin, the Bosch 72150 has been discontinued. As far as I can tell, Bosch just relabeled it as a 3421. Hervey posted on the DML a while back that he sold the 72150, and through doing some research, I found the modern number of 3421, which is also what another vendor sells (verified at my tech day) and has the exact same stampings on the metal when I compared it to a blank black DMC filter. Maybe there are differences that can't be seen from the outside, though.

The Purolator crossover for that filter is one of the ones that you mentioned: the (P)L20252. The last general filter performance shootout that I read placed Purolator at the head of the pack (even beating Wix), but I'm sure Bosch is fine, too. Finding all of that information started when you noticed how dark the oil in Bobo's car was, and I discovered that the bypass valve on the filter he used was set at 8-12 PSI, so the filter wasn't doing anything. All of the local stores near me carry either Bosch or Purolator, so I'm covered if I never run out and need one.

The reason I was asking was only because Marc has a Legend engine, and the modern crossover filters won't fit due to the extra piping. I found the Killer Filter and was curious.

[dmruschell]

There are a lot of specifications that pertain to automotive filters. It is way more than what physically fits. Filtering capacity, micron range, burst pressure, and internal valves among many others. To reduce inventory it seems many have loosened up their spec requirements to allow more cross/over choices and that way they can stock less different types of filters. I think DMCH is now selling Mann filters because the Purflux is NLA. There is still some old inventory of Purflux out there if you look for it. They are pricey compared to more popular or generic ones. One way to find cross/over candidates is to get the Purflux specs and see what matches up (not just the external physical aspects). Good luck trying to find that!

http://store.delorean.com/p-10198-six-pack-bosch-filters.aspx

DMC advertises that they sell Bosch filters, and they look externally identical to a Bosch 3421 (though they could be different).

[jmettee]

The reason I was asking was only because Marc has a Legend engine, and the modern crossover filters won't fit due to the extra piping. I found the Killer Filter and was curious.


Yeah, I know. I derailed it somewhat. But I started from that OEM filter from Purflux (as well as the other part numbers) & tried to find specs to base finding a cross-reference from. Without that original info, it's really difficult to find & compare others for replacement purposes. But it is interesting that ALL Volvo applications point to a filter with a very low bypass pressure of 8-16 PSI. Based on where the pump & filter are on the engine, I don't think this would be different between Volvo & DMC applications.

[dmruschell]

Yeah, I know. I derailed it somewhat. But I started from that OEM filter from Purflux (as well as the other part numbers) & tried to find specs to base finding a cross-reference from. Without that original info, it's really difficult to find & compare others for replacement purposes. But it is interesting that ALL Volvo applications point to a filter with a very low bypass pressure of 8-16 PSI. Based on where the pump & filter are on the engine, I don't think this would be different between Volvo & DMC applications.

Don't worry about a derailment. This thread already has more relevant up-to-date information about what filters to use than any other thread I've seen on DMCTalk or elsewhere.

FRAM filters may be not that great, but their website is great for finding cross references. They list a 1980 Volvo 260 series as using a filter with a 12PSI relief valve setting. They also list that same filter as being used on the DeLorean (I wasn't expecting them to have the DeLorean one their website, but they surprised me). I don't know why a filter with such a low relief pressure is specified if the oil pressure at idle is around 20PSI.

[Chris 16409]

Justin, the Bosch 72150 has been discontinued. As far as I can tell, Bosch just relabeled it as a 3421. Hervey posted on the DML a while back that he sold the 72150, and through doing some research, I found the modern number of 3421, which is also what another vendor sells (verified at my tech day) and has the exact same stampings on the metal when I compared it to a blank black DMC filter. Maybe there are differences that can't be seen from the outside, though.

I also heard the Bosch 72150 has been discontinued. I've been stocking up on these for a while. You can still find them on eBay. The German ones seem more robust. I've also been buying up German made Bosch ignition Distributor Caps and Rotors. I don't care for the aftermarket versions available now. The Made in Spain Bosch Caps are easier to find. They are still better quality than aftermarket.

[David T]

I also heard the Bosch 72150 has been discontinued. I've been stocking up on these for a while. You can still find them on eBay. The German ones seem more robust. I've also been buying up German made Bosch ignition Distributor Caps and Rotors. I don't care for the aftermarket versions available now. The Made in Spain Bosch Caps are easier to find. They are still better quality than aftermarket.

One reason the bypass pressure is so low is because as filters get smaller and smaller they don't last as long so instead of starving the motor of oil they just bypass. The rule-of-thumb for oil pressure is 10 psi minimum and another 10 psi for every 1,000 RPM's. As you can see it doesn't take much to exceed 12 psi. Also remember that the filter must pass oil even when cold. Cold oil is thick and doesn't pass through a filter without a lot of pressure and that is JUST when you need oil the most, on a cold start-up! Especially in winter. One reason they say most of the wear is during and immediately after starting till you get a coating of oil into the bearings and on all of the rubbing surfaces. BTW the bypass pressure is NOT oil pressure. Bypass pressure is the pressure drop across the filter. An example is oil entering the filter is at 20 psi. The filter is clean so the pressure drop is 5 psi so the oil leaving for the motor is 15 psi. It all gets filtered. Now try a dirty filter or the oil is very cold. The pressure drop is in excess of the bypass setting so all of the oil is sent to the motor unfiltered. Better than no oil but now the motor is exposed to unfiltered oil and if you have a lot of contamination it can get lodged in the bearings. It doesn't take much, the clearance in the bearings is only a few thousandth's of an inch. Less as the motor gets hot. You WANT to change your filter EVERY TIME you change your oil and that should be every 5,000 miles or once a year. In aircraft every filter is cut open and inspected for debris. Depending on what is found it can cause the motor to be disassembled if too much or too big particles are found. They also do oil analysis. They want to catch a problem way before failure. Not quite as important in a car. ACDelco PF 13 seems to be an OK cross/over and is usually in stock since it is a very popular filter. It has an anti-drain back valve and a bypass valve.

[jmettee]

I know my previous replies on this are somewhat of a tangent, but to add some information for others to use I'll post a followup.

I changed my oil & oil pressure gauge sender unit this weekend. The oil pressure sender is what I believe to be the latest/current from DMCH & measures 2.07" in diameter & is shown installed next to a Wix 51364 that I show next to my used Bosch 3421 (Made in USA, available in stock at Autozone). The Bosch has a relief pressure of 25-25 PSI & the Wix does not have a relief valve. Both have anti-drainback valves & are about the same dimensions. The Wix is 3.14" diameter & 4.97" in length. Both filters seem to run the same pressures on the dash pressure gauge.

FYI, the typical applications for the Wix are old, so I this filter may not be available to too many more years.
Principle Application: Ford Pinto (71-73), Mercury Capri (71-73),Toyota Corona (to-67),Toyota Starlet (81-84)

More info on the filter is here: http://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/PartDetails.aspx?Part=37677

[hmcelraft]

I have found that by adding a 45 degree angle mount to the oil pressure sender I can use any oil filter I want.

I use a Wix 51307 or a Bocsh D3402. The Bosch seems to be a higher quality filter but, there are a lot filters with all appropriate specs that will fit now.