One Time Opportunity: Upgraded (“bulletproof”) transmission coupler order

[Henrik]

I am in need of the upgraded (“bulletproof”) transmission coupler (http://www.delorean-parts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=DPNW&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=K1016DP) for my manual transmission but as it turns out, none of our Delorean suppliers offer it, or the ones that do currently have no plans to get them in stock any time soon… (I have checked with both Toby and Josh.)

Now, Ed Ghesquiere with SEO Motorsports in Florida has developed the drawings and received bids to have an upgraded transmission coupler made for me, but @ qty 1 the price will be rather high.

So who wants to join me on this order?

The objective is to get enough buyers that we can get the price down to about $200/ea. This might be a good “insurance”/investment for those of you who are considering upgrading your engine output or swapping your engine to more power someday. Even 10 years from now.

This might be a one-time opportunity - so who’s in? Send me a PM!

[Henrik]

So far I have one person who wants to join me on this order.

[Henrik]

Great progress! So far we have an interest for qty 4. (Me + 3 others).

[Henrik]

Potentially 14 at this point.

[Henrik]

Update:

One of our Delorean vendors is going to ship a loaner stock coupler to Ed that his machine shop will review for reference. Once they have that then they will submit a firm quote for the upgraded ditto.

At this point, the interest around the D community may actually exceed the previously reported 14 pieces, so we should be getting a decent price.

I'll update this thread once I hear anything.

[Shuttleman]

Count me in!

[Henrik]

So far we have 17 and a vendor who might also need a batch. If you want one, just PM me your e-mail. I will start a distro when we have the quote from the machine shop. This will have to be pre-paid before the order is placed.

Stay tuned.

[SEO Motorsports]

Update:

Someone in the community has graciously stepped up and made an order for 20 of these couplers for us. If they choose to say who they are that's up to them. I was told the couplers will be done in 25 days and they will be shipped to me. The final price is $175 for owners who have ordered. I will post updates as I get them.

-Ed

[Delorean Industries]

Glad we could help out. I know this will help a lot of owners performing various engine swaps etc. This is a much more affordable option compared to our one piece shafts as well.

[Josh]

wow I had a hell of a time trying to source a coupler since october. Finally just bought an entire transmission with the coupler installed back in May. this is a great deal.

[Josh]

Ed, can you comment on the capabilities of this coupler? Assuming it is the same as toby's.

I am running toby's piece but dont really know how far I can push my car.

[SEO Motorsports]

The couplers are being made out of 4340 from what I was told from the designer who made the order for us, and Toby's were made from 4140. They will be hardened as well. I really have no involvement other than receiving them and shipping them out to people due to logistic reasons. When they arrive I will let everyone who contacted Henrik know. I am estimating $5-$10 shipping in the lower 48. I know there is someone from Australia who wants one and because an Aussie helped me out once doing the same, I plan to do my best to return that favor.


What do you guys think of the new car hauler? Well that's what I told my wife I needed for!
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[Henrik]

Update:

Someone in the community has graciously stepped up and made an order for 20 of these couplers for us. If they choose to say who they are that's up to them. I was told the couplers will be done in 25 days and they will be shipped to me. The final price is $175 for owners who have ordered. I will post updates as I get them.

-Ed

Attached is a quick view of everyone that has expressed an interest and whether they have sent me their e-mail or not. This is the list I will send to Ed when the couplers are ready (along with your actual e-mails). Not sure if there will be enough for everyone but I will let Ed manage that.

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[Henrik]

All e-mail addresses have been received and forwarded to Ed. Thanks.

[BABIS]

I am assuming that these pieces will be available even from Ed and Josh, right?

[Delorean Industries]

We are already sold out.

[Nicholas R]

I'm glad these will be coming back to the market!

[Henrik]

I'm glad these will be coming back to the market!

It can only mean that people are upping the HP and torque of their Deloreans. A nice trend!

[dn010]

I'm not sure if any messages went out but I never received anything via email, checked my spam etc and there was nothing. If there was a message that was sent, perhaps my address was entered incorrectly? Below are 2 addresses for me. thanks


[email protected]
[email protected]

[Henrik]

I'm not sure if any messages went out but I never received anything via email, checked my spam etc and there was nothing. If there was a message that was sent, perhaps my address was entered incorrectly? Below are 2 addresses for me. thanks


[email protected]
[email protected]

No, I don't think anything was e-mailed out yet. Ed told me on July 6 that he had placed the order for 20 couplers and that the leadtime is about a month so it may be until early August until you hear from him.

[Nicholas R]

No, I don't think anything was e-mailed out yet. Ed told me on July 6 that he had placed the order for 20 couplers and that the leadtime is about a month so it may be until early August until you hear from him.

Thats correct. You will hear from Eddie for order information.

Eddie and I are kind of teaming up on this. I made a drawing for a coupler a while back when I pulled mine out of my transmission to swap for my one piece shaft. Always thought I may have them made but didn't know if there was interest, and I've been very invested in producing my 1 piece shaft (which is still happening). My company is also sending me out of the country for about 5 months so I figured it would be some time after that. However, since the need is here, I'm having the couplers made and shipped to Eddie since I'll be out of the country, and Eddie is handling all of the orders, and installing them in the cars at his shop that require them.

I spoke to the manufacturer yesterday and they said that they had acquired the material and were in the process of machining them now. They have a transmission shaft that I sent them so that they can test fit the splines before they are sent. They said that they are still shooting for early August for shipping (to Eddie) barring any major issues.

I have always hated the idea of taking money ahead/pre-orders so I will not accept money until the parts are complete and ready to ship. Sometimes there are problems, delays, etc. in the process, and though often unavoidable, they are a pain; but to me that pain is amplified exponentially when customers have already put money on the line.

For those curious, I performed some Finite Element Analysis (FEA) on the part for steady torsional loading on the fully splined coupler with the 4340 material at the heat treatment level I have chosen, and the principle and shear stresses are below the yield strength of the material up to 500ft/lbs of torque. [PLEASE NOTE I AM NOT RECOMMENDING PUTTING 500FTLBS THROUGH YOUR TRANSMISSION] That being said, steady torsional loading isn't usually what breaks things, it is typically shock/impact loading (aka: your burnouts, potholes, quick changes in traction, railroad tracks, etc.) and fatigue. Still I am confident that in this specific part should no longer be the weak link in the input shaft line.

35553

The weak link will much more likely move to one of the low cross section areas of the shaft where the shaft was necked down so that splines could be rolled, the worst of which being where it is down to ~17mm-17.5mm diameter coming out of the coupler. The other known issue is at the overhung 5th gear as under heavy load the 2 shafts can begin to spread apart causing the teeth to improperly engage, or an excessive alternating stress in the shaft causing fractures.

35548

Here is a stripped 5th gear from a transmission of mine.
35549

I have performed the similar FEA on the original shaft and it doesn't fair anywhere near as well at that level of torque. Not knowing the exact material for the original shafts makes it a little difficult (it's clear that its nothing special, likely just general alloy steel), but I can make some assumptions about it based on the case hardening and the tested hardness. The stresses calculated are far beyond the tensile strength of the material for steady load (not even considering fatigue). I would still recommend that people drive responsibly as they approach the 300hp/300ftlb area.

35552

Also bear in mind that this part is useful for not just higher powered cars. I have talked to multiple owners and vendors about transmissions that have failed on stock cars at the coupler. A transmission in my possession failed at the coupler due to fretting corrosion (which occurs at non-lubricated connections where vibration/movement is present) and broke the main shaft at the roll pin. This happens in the coupler because the main shaft is case hardened, where the stock coupler is significantly softer (it is not a hardened part), and the connection is completely dry as its outside the lip seal.

Here is a photo one of the transmissions I have where the coupler splines corroded away due to fretting, eventually putting all of the load on the roll pin, shearing the end of the main shaft (the end of the shaft is still inside the coupler). This is a shame because the result was that the main gear shaft was sheared, which is the most expensive shaft to replace. Some say that the coupler is a "mechaical fuse" but to me, if it's failure leads to the most critical and expensive shaft becoming damaged and unusable, it's not serving that purpose. That roll pin is only there to control axial positioning and not meant to carry torsional load; but when the splines fail, thats where the load goes.

35550

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Anyway, here's hoping the machining process continues smoothly! :thumbup:

[Josh]

Great post Nick! I really appreciate it.

I will comment that driving responsible with an excess of 300hp/300ftlbs torque is not an easy task! Its just too fun!

[Nicholas R]

Great post Nick! I really appreciate it.

I will comment that driving responsible with an excess of 300hp/300ftlbs torque is not an easy task! Its just too fun!

Absolutely!

And I know what you mean! I had the coupler in my car for almost 3 years with the LS1 mostly stock. There were definitely times where I pushed it but I still always had the transmission in the back of my mind. I was also careful to let off the throttle around potholes, uneven roads, train tracks, etc. It was when the Car Fix episode happened and the Lingenfelter heads and cam went in that I REALLY started getting nervous; not necessarily for the coupler, but for the main shaft components. That was what the single piece input project was born out of.

The other weak point I'll mention in the transmission is the 2 spider gear differential. Later UN1s (after the 369) came with 4 spider gears, which distributed the load in the differential a lot better. I've talked to several others about instances of those components failing, and in several cases it was stock DeLoreans (some high powered too). I know for myself, the Quaife limited slip diff will certainly be my next drivetrain upgrade. I think its smart for both power distribution, and to limit the loss of traction under heavy load. So far Eddie is the only person I know to install on in a DeLorean as he put one into the 2JZ Supra Engine car.

[Nicholas R]

Small update on these.

The machining is going well. The test fits have been successful (see pictures).
3578535786

Each one is inspected and test fit before being deemed "good".

They are hoping to ship them out to Ed next week. I was hoping to be around when they would finish but unfortunately my international trip starts this Friday so I will just miss them. Still, as long as my VPN is up and running, I should be able to hit up DMCTalk from time to time. Meanwhile my car will be covered, battery tendered, and fuel stabilized, in my garage awaiting my return.

[Texas Twister]

Small update on these.

The machining is going well. The test fits have been successful (see pictures).
3578535786

Each one is inspected and test fit before being deemed "good".

They are hoping to ship them out to Ed next week. I was hoping to be around when they would finish but unfortunately my international trip starts this Friday so I will just miss them. Still, as long as my VPN is up and running, I should be able to hit up DMCTalk from time to time. Meanwhile my car will be covered, battery tendered, and fuel stabilized, in my garage awaiting my return.




I was trying to order two but never got any response to a personal message I sent. Is there any way to still get two couplers?

[SEO Motorsports]

At this time DPI ordered ten, I am using one and we will be going down the list after that. Payment will be PayPaled to Nick and I will ship them out when he gives me the OK and shipping address.

-Ed

[Nicholas R]

Alright, I need some help from the community. The machine shop that is making the couplers has made an error that is going to affect the timeline of this project.
I was told yesterday that the couplers were being finished up, and received several photos of the finished parts. When I examined one closely however, I noticed a critical error in the alignment of the roll pin hole and the splines.
These photos should show what I mean.

Here is the shaft. Notice that there is a spline recess that goes through the center of the hole.

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To line up correctly, the coupler needs to have a spline peak going through the center of the hole, to mate with the recess in the shaft. Unfortunately this is not the case. If you look at this photo, you’ll notice there is also a spline recess going through the center of the hole. This means that the hole is misaligned, 1/2 of a spline. This misalignment is too great to allow the roll pin to be installed (especially since each coupler will come with a spiral roll pin which is less forgiving than a standard roll pin). I believe there may have been a couple that were made correctly, but my understanding is that after I bought off on the first one, at some point a different machinist took over, and cut the splines backward.
Photo

35854

So there are 2 options.

A. Scrap the parts, make them again. Obviously the machine shop doesn’t want to have to do this but to me they did screw up. The consequences are that the timeline will reset. It may take a little less time since they have the process worked out, but they still have to procure the proper material, let me buy off on the paperwork, send the material for heat treatment and testing, and perform all of the machining. Probably looking at another month or so, maybe a little less.

B. Work with the parts. The misaligned hole would be abandoned, and another correctly aligned hole would be drilled at the other end of the coupler, roughly 90 degrees offset from the current hole. This option would allow the couplers to be completed hopefully next week. The resulting couplers would look like this. Truthfully, from a strength perspective, I think this will have little effect on their performance. However, I also know that there is value in having the part made the way it is supposed to be. The resulting part would look like this:
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I’m still trying to talk to them about the cost implications of both options and whether there can be a cost reduction for option B; I would hope there would be some.

What I need is answers and opinions from the folks that want them. What do you prefer?

I am very sorry about this delay. I wish I could have caught this sooner but short of watching over their shoulder as they were machined, I'm not sure theres much that could have been done. Still I take responsibility for it. Issues like this are why I wont take money up front.

Let me know your thoughts and thanks for the support,

Nick

[refugeefromcalif]

Hello Nick.
While I didn't pre-order one of these couplers, I do work in a machine shop that cuts splines, (Internal and External) up to 16".
If the shop was supposed to preserve the orientation of the hole, (Based on a blueprint), to the spline, They ARE at fault.
If a different machinist took over the job, He wasn't informed, (or too Lazy to read the blueplint), on the Correct orientation he was Supposed to maintain.

We sometimes deal with shafts for the mining industry(s) that have splines on each end that have to be within .005, (along center line), of each other, and do a Lot of them.
When holes have to be within the same tolerance to splines, we make fixtures or jigs, to accomplish that.

My .02

George

[Nicholas R]

Hello Nick.
While I didn't pre-order one of these couplers, I do work in a machine shop that cuts splines, (Internal and External) up to 16".
If the shop was supposed to preserve the orientation of the hole, (Based on a blueprint), to the spline, They ARE at fault.
If a different machinist took over the job, He wasn't informed, (or too Lazy to read the blueplint), on the Correct orientation he was Supposed to maintain.

We sometimes deal with shafts for the mining industry(s) that have splines on each end that have to be within .005, (along center line), of each other, and do a Lot of them.
When holes have to be within the same tolerance to splines, we make fixtures or jigs, to accomplish that.

My .02

George

Thanks George; it was clearly indicated on the drawing. Both a section view, a detail view, and a field note indicating the that the spline peak align with the center of the hole. Honestly not sure what happened but whats done is done. :angry: I like these guys as the have done very good work for me before. They made my full transmission shaft which is FAR more complicated than this part. Guess everyone has an off day...

[Mario]

If it was specified correctly in the part drawing and you had signed off on the initial (correct) parts, then the bad ones are completely their fault. They should be making new ones for free or a very reduced price.

I say get new ones. If they'll let you keep the bad ones, they could perhaps be re-drilled and sold at a lower cost. Doubt they'll give them to you, though.

Disclaimer: I won't be needing one for many more months anyway, so I have no issues with waiting longer. But I think it's better to have them made right.

[Nicholas R]

Update; between the extra material, and the parts that were already made correctly, 7 couplers have been completed and shipped to Ed.

An additional order of couplers has been started. The next set should be ready in another month or so. For now these will be available.

3587735878

Thanks,
Nick

[Josh]

Mark me down for one in the next set!

[DrJeff]

Nick, did you resolve the position of the pin hole in this first set?

[Nicholas R]

Nick, did you resolve the position of the pin hole in this first set?

It is only correct in these 7. The rest of the first batch are misaligned (the order was for 20). As such there will only be 7 available right now.

The next batch will not have this issue.

EDIT: As a reminder, if you are interested in purchasing a coupler, please contact Ed ("SEO Motorsports"). He is managing the receiving and shipping of these couplers as I'm out of the country.

[DrJeff]

It is only correct in these 7. The rest of the first batch are misaligned (the order was for 20). As such there will only be 7 available right now.

The next batch will not have this issue.

EDIT: As a reminder, if you are interested in purchasing a coupler, please contact Ed ("SEO Motorsports"). He is managing the receiving and shipping of these couplers as I'm out of the country.
Ed, can you send us the details on payment, etc. Thanks

[SEO Motorsports]

All,

I received the couplers today and I'm using one for the project i'm working on now. That leaves six that I can ship out. Below is the list of people in order for this first batch. Please PM/contact Nick for payment, he will then give me the shipping address for the people he's received payment for and I'll send it out. I will compile a new list in the order i have recieved requests.

1. bdmiko
2. dustybarn
3. Drjeff
4. Mario
5. unhair x QTY 2

CORRECTED LIST!!


Regards,

Ed

[Delorean Industries]

What about us? :(

[SEO Motorsports]

Sorry Josh we had 14 people on the list before you requested your 10. I have to go by the list. If anyone backs out we'll move to the next person.

[Delorean Industries]

I'm going to approach this objectively. I will take fault in not asking a number of these questions up front to those I knew were involved with this at the time:

I was under the impression when this went down that our commitment for 10 got this rolling with only a few others committed at that time. I would think at the very least you and I should have at least one a piece. Not only to install and test the product prior to handing out to everyone else but because out of anyone on this list we are the only two that will have the component installed immediately. IMO this "process" has not gone smoothly and I am thankfully that I am a committed end user in this situation and not directly related to production.

My supplier came through a few days after this started rolling with our tooling returned for use with another manufacture. I have stayed committed after I said I would. I would also appreciate better communication from all involved. (I'm not even sure the extent of that) We worked to help sell the product in quantity and have a number of people waiting and of course watching this thread. All aware that not a single coupler will be shipped unit installed on our end and tested. Our version is more expensive in comparison and I would rather not need to re quote (not an option regardless) and or give at cost to appease those waiting or if the product does not test out. (what will end up happening worst case)

This is absolutely not how this should have gone down. I'm definitely concerned at this point about liability. Are owners actually being supplied couplers without testing prior? Who is responsible for the design work if their is a failure or issues? Does the manufacturing company hold liability, the designer of the print used?

I"m not questioning the manufacturer, design or engineer work without seeing it first. But these concerns are kinda common sense and clearly crosses the line between "hobbyist" activities and a business developing and marketing a product. The question stands: who is actually responsible and standing behind this?

[SEO Motorsports]

We are sold out at this time. I have added the last people to the list that made a request on the thread and that have PMed me.

[Mario]

Yeesh, Josh. Okay, I will willingly give up my spot since my DeLorean won't be arriving for some more months anyway. You can have my coupler.

[SEO Motorsports]

I'm going to approach this objectively. I will take fault in not asking a number of these questions up front to those I knew were involved with this at the time:

I was under the impression when this went down that our commitment for 10 got this rolling with only a few others committed at that time. I would think at the very least you and I should have at least one a piece. Not only to install and test the product prior to handing out to everyone else but because out of anyone on this list we are the only two that will have the component installed immediately. IMO this "process" has not gone smoothly and I am thankfully that I am a committed end user in this situation and not directly related to production.

My supplier came through a few days after this started rolling with our tooling returned for use with another manufacture. I have stayed committed after I said I would. I would also appreciate better communication from all involved. (I'm not even sure the extent of that) We worked to help sell the product in quantity and have a number of people waiting and of course watching this thread. All aware that not a single coupler will be shipped unit installed on our end and tested. Our version is more expensive in comparison and I would rather not need to re quote (not an option regardless) and or give at cost to appease those waiting or if the product does not test out. (what will end up happening worst case)

This is absolutely not how this should have gone down. I'm definitely concerned at this point about liability. Are owners actually being supplied couplers without testing prior? Who is responsible for the design work if their is a failure or issues? Does the manufacturing company hold liability, the designer of the print used?

I"m not questioning the manufacturer, design or engineer work without seeing it first. But these concerns are kinda common sense and clearly crosses the line between "hobbyist" activities and a business developing and marketing a product. The question stands: who is actually responsible and standing behind this?



Josh,

I don't know what to tell you other than Nick fronted the money for the 20 pieces so it was going to happen no matter what because he knew he would get his money back. I needed one to finish this project and Nick already had the design completed and stepped up to the plate. We are doing this just to offer them to the community, if someone doesn't want to buy one because it's not tested or have a warranty, that's up to them. The next guy will buy it. The only part I have in this is recieving the couplers from the manufacturer and shipping them out because Nick is out of the country. Nick is a professional mechanical engineer who designes stuff for Disney and has a functioning one piece shaft in his car of his design that is much more complicated than this simple coupler.



All,

So we put it out there for everyone, these are "Hobbyist" pieces designed by a very competent mechanical engineer but are the only ones that I know of actually available for purchase. There is no warranty and are to be used at your own risk. I will be installing one this weekend and will post pictures when completed.

[SEO Motorsports]

Yeesh, Josh. Okay, I will willingly give up my spot since my DeLorean won't be arriving for some more months anyway. You can have my coupler.


We can make this happen at your request.

[Mario]

Yes, I am 100% serious. I wouldn't have any use for it for at least a few more months, so he can have mine. I will wait for the later batch.

[Delorean Industries]

Mario, Appreciate the gesture but that wasn't the point. We have our own and are simply working to keep our prior commitment.


My reaction to this is simply based on a lack of knowledge of who is doing what. I was under the impression Henrik contracted SEO to make these and that someone had put out a toby unit on loan to copy (nick). Again as I posted previously credentials are not in question. I'm sure Nick is more than capable. With that said this is "business" and applies to the rules of such for the protection of consumers. Hobbyist approach aside no matter what this is called liability exists. If we could go through life simply doing things without being responsible for our actions business liability structuring wouldn't exist.

Again... I should have asked for more details up front but was under the impression that this was much different than what it turns out to be. I thought SEO was responsible for this as a product. I was simply implying that if a risk of any sort concerning a component meant to solve a strength issue in a car certain care and caution should be exercised. At this point it sounds like the engineer is liable for it as he put it into production. If he is working for a corporation I'm sure they have a clause or policy involving engineering work outside of the constraints of his employment. All of this stuff matters. Not trying to start something but prevent it from going sideways. I've been doing this long enough to know the boundaries and limits.

[SEO Motorsports]

Mario, Appreciate the gesture but that wasn't the point. We have our own and are simply working to keep our prior commitment.


My reaction to this is simply based on a lack of knowledge of who is doing what. I was under the impression Henrik contracted SEO to make these and that someone had put out a toby unit on loan to copy (nick). Again as I posted previously credentials are not in question. I'm sure Nick is more than capable. With that said this is "business" and applies to the rules of such for the protection of consumers. Hobbyist approach aside no matter what this is called liability exists. If we could go through life simply doing things without being responsible for our actions business liability structuring wouldn't exist.

Again... I should have asked for more details up front but was under the impression that this was much different than what it turns out to be. I thought SEO was responsible for this as a product. I was simply implying that if a risk of any sort concerning a component meant to solve a strength issue in a car certain care and caution should be exercised. At this point it sounds like the engineer is liable for it as he put it into production. If he is working for a corporation I'm sure they have a clause or policy involving engineering work outside of the constraints of his employment. All of this stuff matters. Not trying to start something but prevent it from going sideways. I've been doing this long enough to know the boundaries and limits.

Your assumption were incorrect.

[Delorean Industries]

Alright so I'm still asking a very valid question. With no one reaching out privately on this matter I'll continue to ask here. As I thought I was dealing with a business on this product with instructions to send payment and correspondence there upon completion. Where does the buck stop? A product is being manufactured and sold for profit. This isn't a hobby situation helping a few people out. This is something I ask of all of my manufactures and suppliers. If it is someone mentioned it should be known and they should have the appropriate measures in place for liability. Expressed or not this is expected of the others purchasing these as consumers. If it is the machining outfit or the circumstances some how are different please inform me privately. I'm just extremely concerned over this as it appears that I have stumbled onto uncharted territory in this manufacturing venture. I'm not trying to preach on or undermine this in any way. I am continuing to reiterate myself based on the numerous posts followed by responses ignoring a very straight forward question.

To be as forward as possible: If there were a problem my liability and manufacturing insurance (or any one else with such insurance for that matter) does not cover a product not produced or engineered by us or that is purchased from a supplier not protected by the same type of liability coverage. I would be insane to purchase anything in quantity without first verifying the path of liability of any component we purchase for use/resale. If the manufacturer of a component is not liable for the components integrity then it is negligent on my part to use and sell it. Making me liable and not covered/protected. This question is simply good business practice.

The age old question in the community. "why do vendors not purchase products made my owners in the community?" Its not because we don't like people. But they don't have certain things allowing them to safely do so.

[DrJeff]

Josh,

Now don't be going all Delorean1 on us...

You signed up, if it isn't what you expected then back out. The concerns you're citing are yours and as you've explained, in the interests of protecting your business.

I'm just interested in improving my car, if this coupler doesn't work or causes problems then I fully understand the risk is carried by me alone, and I have no problem with that. I'm fitting it in a car that I own. I don't need a vendor to sign off on a coupler as tested (whatever that means - perhaps for those that are interested you can specify the engineering specifics involved in your testing.) I do appreciate that Nick has been kind enough as a fellow enthusiast to do the hands on checks against the design request. Perhaps some day I'll get the opportunity to return the favor.

Jeff

[Delorean Industries]

Jeff,

While I respect your good will towards the situation that is not how the world works. If you or anyone is injured by something manufactured not you but your insurance or loved ones etc will go after that person. Someone always picks up the check.... We can all sit back and say we are friends on here but that means nothing when it gets down to it. If Nick is assuming responsibility for this product then he needs to be fully aware of the obligations of doing so. Designing and making for yourself. One thing. Design and making while handing to others. Completely different.At this time I would find it extremely hard to believe with how intelligent he is that he would willingly open himself up to this type of liability. IF he is truly the one holding the bag for this. Again I signed on thinking something else as I was clearly led to believe a business was manufacturing and regardless will complete our end of the agreement if this is being conducted properly and or liability is properly assigned. I agree with you Jeff I really do. I would love to go through life with everyone living and working together as you posted. That is not how this type of thing works. Please don't see this as me trying to interject on your project. I know Nick (if he is at the end of this) has worked extremely hard to get where he is at in life. I would hate to see him (or anyone for that matter) fall prey to a nasty technicality in the way things work. I know the best of intentions are behind all of this. In the end there is simply too much at stake to roll the dice.

[Nicholas R]

First off I just want to say thanks to Ed and everyone else. Being 12 hours different, working long hours, and being a slave to my VPN doesn't allow me to stay as connected as I wish.

Again I want to say thank you for the support in the project, and reiterate that this project was only meant to help people, and was no way intended to cause angst or upset people.


Josh,

I am not a DeLorean vendor. You called this a "hobbyist" venture? Well, you're absolutely correct! DeLoreans are your job, and I get that; but this is not my job. I have a day job that suits me just fine. I am not making these parts to make money, nor am I making them so that you can make money. I'm making them to help the community; so that people can enjoy their cars they way they want to, while worrying a little less (and because I have a soft spot for high powered DeLoreans). Truth be told, I designed this coupler back in February but I was not planning to have any made for quite a while (if ever). Obviously having them made weeks before I knew I was going to Shanghai, China was a ridiculous idea. I was only motivated to do so now because the community need was here, and Ed was able to manage the project in the USA in my absence. If I'm lucky, by the time all the couplers are sold, I'll recoup my investment, and come out MAYBE a couple hundred dollars ahead; (after months of time, energy, and headache) money that will end up right back with this machine shop, sunk into trying to improve my one piece shaft.

I'm getting the sense that you feel very invested in this project and don't feel like you're getting anything out of it. For this I am sorry. I am a person that keeps my work and my designs very close to the chest and guarded, letting in only a select few. Often I will not speak of my projects until after they are complete. This is also why I do not take any money up front; to avoid people feeling invested in my work before it is complete. I was not aware that you sent Ed one of Toby's couplers that you owned; I believe that took place before I spoke to Ed about my design (I have my own collection of original and Toby couplers). That was certainly a very nice gesture on your part and I'm sure your coupler will be returned to you. Still, please understand that I do not feel as though I owe anything to you or anyone else (except for Ed; I do owe him for his help and hard work). I understand that you expressed interest in 10 couplers, but please know that I would have had these made even if you didn’t want any at all, because I believe in the part. If it ends up that no one wants these couplers right now, it will not faze me. I’ll hold onto them over the years and sell them one at a time as needed. My livelihood is not contingent on their sale.

I'm sure with vendors like Stainless Works, you have contracts, business partnerships, design requirement specifications, deliverables matrices, financial investments and interests, etc. That is not the case here. We have no business relationship. I am not a part supplier. I may be some day, but right now consider me an enthusiast that had some parts made to help out other owners. If you're not comfortable with this, I understand. You are free to back out with no hard feelings. Obviously no money has changed hands.

Your posts have certainly given me perspective on how people can negatively react to a project that’s intentions are good. For that I do sincerely thank you. As a result, no couplers will be sold without the purchaser first signing a Sales & Liability Agreement, with an attached Limited Warranty. This will be emailed to the purchasers and will need to be signed, scanned, and returned to me before couplers will be sent. I have made Ed aware of this.

As far as the parts themselves, each one was tested for spline fit before being sent. Normally I would also test every party by hand myself as a sanity check, but being on the other side of the globe, I regrettably cannot do that right now. If there are any issues, I want to be personally made aware. Please note that the fit of these couplers is meant to be tighter than Toby’s which slides on and off by hand with ease. The splines of the shafts should be lubricated (to aid in install and prevent fretting), and the coupler may need tapped on. It is meant to be a tight connection.

Also, on that note, I know Ed and I have gone back and forth on who should be communicated with (he or I) and I apologize for the confusion. I believe Ed has everyone’s contact information and address. Ed is the keeper of the list of those interested as well as the order in which people expressed interest. It is only fair that they are distributed in the order that people chimed in.

Each member who’s screen name that Ed has posted will receive a PM from me. I will send you my email address for paypal, and I will request your email address so that I may send you the sales agreement with warranty. I will request that you sign it and send it back to me. After I have the agreement and the paypal’d funds, I’ll let Ed know to ship your parts (coupler & roll pin).

[please note my responses may be slightly delayed due to the time zone difference]

I hope this clears things up.

Thanks again to everyone,

Nick

[Nicholas R]

To add to my previous post:

The Sales & Liability Agreement will also be an electronically signable PDF document. That should make the process of filling it out much easier. Otherwise it's: print, sign, scan, send.

Thanks,
Nick

[SEO Motorsports]

For the record, no one ever sent me a toby coupler. I was loaned an original shaft from a kind vendor that I will test fit all the couplers before I send them out.

[Nicholas R]

For the record, no one ever sent me a toby coupler. I was loaned an original shaft from a kind vendor that I will test fit all the couplers before I send them out.

Whoops, sorry must have missread.

Thanks again for the help Ed.

Also I have PMd the first 5 people from the list posted earlier.

[Delorean Industries]

Nick,

Thanks for posting on this. I"ll keep it short to make it easier to read this time. I was thrown off as I thought I was dealing with SEO. Not invested as we have our own but wanted to help owners interested in couplers only. My main concern was the liability and your well being when I realized you personally were behind this. I almost learned the hard way early on when all I was trying to do was help as you are while enjoying my at the time hobby. If I had known up front the actual situation and who was involved I could have offered positive insight and of course help with liability up front. I thought I was dealing with a "business" (SEO) where that should have been sorted already. As stated prior we are still committed to supporting. But when things became a bit clouded questions needed to be asked.


Regards

Josh

[SEO Motorsports]

All,

I installed one of the couplers on a transmission and it went on just like Nick said it would. After cleaning the splines and adding a little lube I just lightly tapped the coupler on and installed the roll pin. I'm glad we decided to do this because the transmission that Henrik got was not very clean inside and the bell housing bolts were loose and the bottom ones were missing. It's all cleaned up and going back together now.

-Ed

[Nicholas R]

Nick,

Thanks for posting on this. I"ll keep it short to make it easier to read this time. I was thrown off as I thought I was dealing with SEO. Not invested as we have our own but wanted to help owners interested in couplers only. My main concern was the liability and your well being when I realized you personally were behind this. I almost learned the hard way early on when all I was trying to do was help as you are while enjoying my at the time hobby. If I had known up front the actual situation and who was involved I could have offered positive insight and of course help with liability up front. I thought I was dealing with a "business" (SEO) where that should have been sorted already. As stated prior we are still committed to supporting. But when things became a bit clouded questions needed to be asked.


Regards

Josh

Thank you for the insight Josh; I really do appreciate it. And I am sorry about the confusion. This project did bounce around a lot in the beginning and the details didn't flush out until a couple weeks in (and some are still flushing out). You are certainly right; as good of friends as we all are on here, some questions do need to be asked. I honestly should have considered the liability aspect earlier on. On this site we see a lot of upgrade parts, improved parts, cosmetic parts, etc. made at enthusiast level quantities, but rarely is it a drivetrain component. This is certainly not to diminish the work of any other members designs or products, its just to state that the potential liability is different. At some point I do hope to establish a LLC for my little side projects (both DeLorean and non-DeLorean related), but I haven't taken that step yet. Maybe this will motivate me to do that sooner than later. For now there is the Sales and Liability Agreement.



All,

I installed one of the couplers on a transmission and it went on just like Nick said it would. After cleaning the splines and adding a little lube I just lightly tapped the coupler on and installed the roll pin. I'm glad we decided to do this because the transmission that Henrik got was not very clean inside and the bell housing bolts were loose and the bottom ones were missing. It's all cleaned up and going back together now.

-Ed

Glad to hear it! :wrenchin: :burnout:

In my experience, the splines on the shafts usually need an intense brushing with a steel brush before reassembly.

Also, for those that have never tried to remove an old coupler; note that you'll need either a press, or a big hammer and torch. The 3 that I have ever removed have been practically seized onto the clutch shaft. I tried using a bearing puller once; that was a mistake; snapped the puller in half. The good news (for those replacing their coupler) is that the original coupler is not hardened or heat treated; but the shafts are. As such, the coupler is much softer and if required, will deform first leaving the shaft splines unaffected.

[SEO Motorsports]

It got a lot of cleaning for sure!

When you get back you have to stop by and see this one. I outdid myself on with the adapter, flywheel and clutch combination. I was able to use all off the shelf parts as maintenance replacements. It did get a custom aluminum flywheel but with a replaceable friction surface so the flywheel itself is not a wearable item. The clutch, pressure plate, throwout bearing, pilot bearing are parts you can get at most any parts store. This one will be close in power as the 2JZ car but have better weight distribution because the VR6 is shorter and lighter.

[Nicholas R]

It got a lot of cleaning for sure!

When you get back you have to stop by and see this one. I outdid myself on with the adapter, flywheel and clutch combination. I was able to use all off the shelf parts as maintenance replacements. It did get a custom aluminum flywheel but with a replaceable friction surface so the flywheel itself is not a wearable item. The clutch, pressure plate, throwout bearing, pilot bearing are parts you can get at most any parts store. This one will be close in power as the 2JZ car but have better weight distribution because the VR6 is shorter and lighter.

From the sounds of it you may be finished with it before I get back! I'll either return at the beginning of January or some time in March (still remains to be seen...). If it's still there I'll definitely come see it! That drivetrain stackup sounds REALLY nice :burnout:

[Henrik]

From the sounds of it you may be finished with it before I get back! I'll either return at the beginning of January or some time in March (still remains to be seen...). If it's still there I'll definitely come see it! That drivetrain stackup sounds REALLY nice :burnout:

Hi Nick,
We're shooting for completing this project by end of year, but then again, there is no set deadline... but you're very welcome to swing by the Dallas area to check it out! :) I'm working on a blog for this project that I will put up on dmctalk shortly.

Henrik
#1283
Formerly Stage 1 and auto. Soon VR6 and manual transmission.

[SEO Motorsports]

All,

I have received an email to ship out all the couplers for the people that Nick has been in contact with. The roll pins we received were not the correct ones so Nick is having new ones sent to me. I can ship the couplers out and you get a new OEM one to use or wait for the new roll pins and I'll ship everything out together. For those of you who have paid Nick let me know if you prefer i just send yours now without a roll pin.

-Ed

[Nicholas R]

The roll pins should be sent to Ed monday morning. I'd anticipate they'll arrive by Wednesday or Thursday if that affects anyone's decision.

Thanks,
Nick

[SEO Motorsports]

All, the roll pins they sent last week were too long so Nick has the correct length ones on the way. I should have them any day now.



-Ed

[SEO Motorsports]

All,

The new roll pins are here and I am packing everything up to ship out tomorrow. Each coupler will have a part number of CBTFSNDR02-00X, the X being the serial number. This way they can't be confused with other couplers on the market and Nick can identify the coupler if you have any fitment issues. I tested all of these on a good transmission shaft.

serial#
bdmiko -002
dustybarn - 003
DrJeff - 004
Mario - 005
uhhair - 006 waiting on payment confirmation to ship
DMC5180 - 007 waiting on payment confirmation to ship


-Ed

[DrJeff]

All,

The new roll pins are here and I am packing everything up to ship out tomorrow. Each coupler will have a part number of CBTFSNDR02-00X, the X being the serial number. This way they can't be confused with other couplers on the market and Nick can identify the coupler if you have any fitment issues. I tested all of these on a good transmission shaft.

serial#
bdmiko -002
dustybarn - 003
DrJeff - 004
Mario - 005
uhhair - 006 waiting on payment confirmation to ship
DMC5180 - 007 waiting on payment confirmation to ship


-Ed
Got mine in the mail today, just awesome :))

[Nicholas R]

Got mine in the mail today, just awesome :))

Definitely glad to hear it! I appreciate how supportive everyone has been on this project!

For those curious, the next set of couplers is well on its way to being completed. The manufacturer sent me these photos in the last couple days.

3643236433

After discussing it with the manufacturer I did not want there to be any question of alignment. We took a step back an looked at the machining process order. As a result, there are several additional machining processes taking place. You'll notice that these couplers are oversized right now and also have a flat spot machined into them. That was so that the flat spot could be used as a datum for alignment. This will help ensure the spline/hole relationship through production. During the finish grinding, this flat spot will go away as the final diameter is reached. I'm pleased with the extra insurance this adds, but unfortunately every machining process increases the production time and unfortunately the cost (price will remain $175 though). I'm anticipating roughly 2-3 weeks until they will be shipped to Ed. The new contract said this run will be completed on or before September 21st.

[Mario]

Just got mine last night as well, it looks great!

[bdmiko]

Mine just came today - looks very nice.

[Dutch]

Hi Ed,

I just came across your tread with the "Bulletproof" couplers. Do you have any more for sale or that I can order.

Thanks,

Dutch

[Nicholas R]

Hi Ed,

I just came across your tread with the "Bulletproof" couplers. Do you have any more for sale or that I can order.

Thanks,

Dutch

The next run should be complete in 2-3 weeks. We will add you to the list.

[Dutch]

Thanks

Dutch


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Josh]

easy as that? well get me on this list!

[Ashyukun]

I'd like to be added to the list too- don't have an immediate application for it, but at the same time expect to need it down the line and don't want to miss out!

[DMC5180]

Nick,

Do you think the machine shop could send you a photo of the tool that makes the spline cuts? I'm just curious what it looks like. I assume it's a broach of some kind.


Dennis

[refugeefromcalif]

Nick,

Do you think the machine shop could send you a photo of the tool that makes the spline cuts? I'm just curious what it looks like. I assume it's a broach of some kind.


Dennis

Too bad you didn't ask this question before 6:00 this morning. I could have taken pictures of my shops spline machines and the different types/styles of cutters.
If Nick can't get pics of the tool they use, I'll take some, (when I get back to work Wednesday), of what we use for different applications.

George

[DMC5180]

That would great

Thanks.


Dennis

[DMC5180]

Nick, Ed,

Got mine today and it looks good.

May I make a suggestion for your new batch. You should wrap them with oil soak paper or hit them with a spray-on corrosion inhibitor at the machine shop. It should help prevent the light surface rust that mine has on it. Besides most of these will be sitting on shelves until the owner decides to tackle the replacement job.

Thanks again.




Dennis

[SEO Motorsports]

I'll put them in a baggy next time with some lube. I sent them as they came.

-Ed

[Nicholas R]

The order has finished and the couplers are on their way to Ed!

36780

We will begin processing the orders once they're in Ed's hands!.

[Bruce Johnson]

I'll put them in a baggy next time with some lube. I sent them as they came.

-Ed
Pm attempted, but your box is full

[SEO Motorsports]

cleared some room.

[SEO Motorsports]

All,

Great news, the new batch is here. Some of you may know but i'm in the middle of moving my family to the beach and have been crazy busy at work so sorry if i have been late to respond to any PM's or emails. I have send my running list to Nick and asked that he take over keeping names so I can concentrate on moving my family, tools and equipment. Nick will let me know where to ship them and I will get them out ASAP.

-Ed

[Nicholas R]

Ed has sent me his list. I'll begin contacting people over the next few days about the sales agreement and payment. From now on all communication will be with me. Ed has already offered more than enough for this project so I want to limit the need for his involvement as much as possible.

Bear with me; I'll try to get through all of these as quickly and efficiently as I can.

[Nicholas R]

I have reached out to everyone on this website that has requested a coupler or couplers.

If you have not received a PM or email from me, please let me know and I will add you to the list. My information regarding interested people is based on the list that Ed had generated.

PLEASE NOTE: ALL of the couplers have been spoken for.

Those of you that have received a message from me, I look forward to hearing back from you. Please get back to me as soon as you can as there is a waiting list of people wanting couplers that were not able to get in on this order. If you have received a message from me and you are not interested, I understand, but please know that I do not know when/if another order of these will be made. Ed has offered up a lot of time and effort to help with this while I'm out of the country, and I wont ask him to do it again.

Thanks,
Nick

[refugeefromcalif]

That would great

Thanks.
Dennis

Dennis, A couple of spline hobs/cutters.

36901
And in action.
36902

A short video of internal gear teeth being cut.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSgLMBibWgw

We've done some very Off the Wall spline cutting in the past...

36903

Now what it's attached to...

36904

(Sorry to the OP, My intent wasn't to hijack the thread, just show a bit of gear/spline cutting)...

George

[DMC5180]

Very cool, thanks George!

[Nicholas R]

(Sorry to the OP, My intent wasn't to hijack the thread, just show a bit of gear/spline cutting)...

George

No worries at all. Most people never realize how much goes into cutting gears and splines. If I had known how much work was involved with getting gears and splines right, I probably would not have taken on trying to make a one piece shaft. After that was over, the coupler didn't seem too difficult. Still, as I'm sure you know, that doesn't mean there arent a lot of parameters that have to be right for the fit to be right. Certainly not something that can be thrown into a mill and hope to come out right. Pretty much always requires at least one specialty machining process like: hobbing, shaping, shaving, grinding, broaching; all of which require very specialized tooling.

[SEO Motorsports]

All,

I got the list of people to ship couplers out to. I am closing on our new house tomorrow so the couplers won't be shipped out until the weekend.

-Ed

[dn010]

Congrats on the new house!

Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk

[Nicholas R]

If you have received a PM and/or email from me regarding the coupler, please respond as soon as possible. There are several people that I have not heard from since our initial contact. If you are no longer interested, please let me know, as there are individuals waiting to purchase these.

[SEO Motorsports]

All,

I have not shipped the couplers out because i'm in over my head trying to get things settled with the house. I have been painting until about midnight since last Thursday. Today I got all the shipping pouches, and one boxed to go to Australia ready to ship them out but it seems I packed the roll pins deep in the trailer where I can't get to them at the moment. I thought I set them aside with the couplers before the move but those ended up being one of the incorrect sized bags. I'm very sorry for the delay but I will get them out ASAP.

Regards,

Ed

[SEO Motorsports]

All,

I shipped out all the couplers minus the one going to Australia and 10 pieces for Josh at DPI. I should have those out by the end of the week. If anyone needs a tracking number just let me know.


-Ed

[SEO Motorsports]

sorry I did not update sooner but all couplers have been shipped.

[Delorean Industries]

Which carrier were they sent with? Thanks!

[dn010]

Received mine on Monday, usps. Thank you!

Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk

[SEO Motorsports]

Which carrier were they sent with? Thanks!

USPS, I have the tracking number in my truck if you need it.

[Nicholas R]

I'm still missing agreements from several people. If you still owe me an agreement, I would appreciate if you would find the time to fill it out and send it to me. Everyone's couplers have already been sent out in good faith that the agreements would be returned. Please don't make me regret it.

[DMC02766]

I'm late to the game and am just now seeing this thread. Anybody have one of these they would like to sell? I've got my transmission apart and would like to upgrade the coupler if at all possible.

[Nicholas R]

I'm late to the game and am just now seeing this thread. Anybody have one of these they would like to sell? I've got my transmission apart and would like to upgrade the coupler if at all possible.

I'm having one last run made of them right now that are almost ready; unfortunately I'm out of the country right now. I will be back at the beginning of March and can ship you one first thing if you can wait.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I'm late to the game and am just now seeing this thread. Anybody have one of these they would like to sell? I've got my transmission apart and would like to upgrade the coupler if at all possible.

I have one I don't plan to install until I have to remove my transmission. I would be willing to sell you mine if I can get another one later this year.

[DanRC30]

I was just made aware of this thread. I'd be interested in one. Can someone contact me directly about getting one?

[DMC02766]

I talked to Josh at DPI and he said he has one he can sell me although if that one falls through I am game to buy one. Dave I may take you up on the offer if I dont hear back from Josh by the end of the week. I'll keep you posted.

[FABombjoy]

I was just made aware of this thread. I'd be interested in one. Can someone contact me directly about getting one?
Same here. If there are open slots on the latest run, please post the details!

[Nicholas R]

Same here. If there are open slots on the latest run, please post the details!

I will add you both to my list of people interested. I should be back in the United States (for good) in early March. The run of couplers should be finished before I return (hopefully they'll be waiting for me). Once I get situated, I'll let everyone know when they're ready to be sold and shipped.

Also, this will likely be my last run of these. Sadly, the machinist I'm using is retiring and closing up shop. It's a bummer because I like the work he does, but I understand. I've still got all of my drawings a documentation for making them in the future, but as of now, I don't have a lead on a new manufacturer, or plans to make more. Unfortunately, this also means that my one-piece input shaft will probably not continue into a production phase.

[opethmike]

100% interested in one as well, and ready to pay as soon as available for purchase.

[mr_maxime]

Im also interested

[DMC02766]

Just received mine from Josh today so I no longer need one. Thanks for keeping me in the loop on it though!

[Timebender]

I'm interested!

[DMCVegas]

Sign me up for this too if one becomes available.

Thank you!

[mr_maxime]

Due to unforeseen circumstances, I will have to drop out for now

[Gfrank]

I'd be intrested myself

[mr_maxime]

Count me back in if it's not too late.

[Nicholas R]

Count me back in if it's not too late.

Sounds good, It's not too late; I haven't even reached out that they're for sale yet. I'll be sure to let you know. I actually need to get on this. I have the couplers in my possession and have been trying to sit down and write a post about their sale. I'm hoping to write a "they're here for sale" post this weekend, and start coordinating the warrantys, shipping, payments, etc.
Thanks again, Nick.