Starter Won't Crank after Relay Install

[DavidProehl]

2 days ago I installed an LED dimmer relay. The lights worked correctly, but I didn't try starting my car until today. When I try to start the car, all I get is a relay click. No sound from the starter. The fuel pump primes, dash lights turn on, headlights work (low and high), radio turns on, clock works, A/C illuminates, dome lights are on, radiator fans turn on when A/C is selected. The interior cabin fan isn't turning on, if I remember correctly, it should.

Battery registers at 12.6v, so that doesn't seem to be the issue. All fuses are confirmed to be good. The only relay wires I touched were related to 8 (A/C Panel) & 5 (Interior lamp) in the below image:
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=35929&stc=1

I have since returned all wires back to stock locations but have the same no start result. What am I missing? I clearly did something I shouldn't have.

Video of issue and sound of clicking starter relay:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zrFp3Ce6AA

[Jonathan]

David, I'll mention this even though I think your car is a manual trans... but when I had a similar "sounding" no crank issue a while back, it turned out to be the shifter was not all the way into PARK. On the automatic, there is some sort of interlock that won't let you start the car unless it is all the way up into the park position. I'm not aware of the same interlock on the manual, but thought I would mention it just to maybe trigger another thought by you or someone else.

Definitely seems to point to electrical and if something got bumped inadvertently, it appears to be early on with the ignition system as it's not even trying to start the car.

Does your battery warning light normally take that extra moment to come on? It looked like it came on a brief moment after the oil pressure light came on. Not so sure how the alternator and charging loop would be tied into the ignition system though.

Inertia switch plunger got bumped maybe?

[DMCMW Dave]

The clicking is probably the MAIN and/or AUX relay. If the car isn't in park, or something is wrong with the lockout circuit or relay, those two still click. The start inhibit relay is not very loud.

You can jump right to the starter by powering the white/red stripe wire on the unused socket at the back of the engine compartment. CAUTION - this will engage the starter regardless of what gear the car is in or if the key is on or off, so be 100% sure it's not in gear!

If that does not fire the starter, the problem is likely AT the starter.

My guess is that you pulled the start inhibit relay #9 out of the socket during this work, and pushing it back in popped one of the pins out of the back of the socket.

[DavidProehl]

Thank you both for the prompt replies!


David, I'll mention this even though I think your car is a manual trans... but when I had a similar "sounding" no crank issue a while back, it turned out to be the shifter was not all the way into PARK. On the automatic, there is some sort of interlock that won't let you start the car unless it is all the way up into the park position. I'm not aware of the same interlock on the manual, but thought I would mention it just to maybe trigger another thought by you or someone else.

Definitely seems to point to electrical and if something got bumped inadvertently, it appears to be early on with the ignition system as it's not even trying to start the car.

Does your battery warning light normally take that extra moment to come on? It looked like it came on a brief moment after the oil pressure light came on. Not so sure how the alternator and charging loop would be tied into the ignition system though.

Inertia switch plunger got bumped maybe?

My car is a manual, you are right so the gear shouldn't matter, but I have confirmed it is in neutral. I also confirmed my inertia plunger is in the correct down position.


The clicking is probably the MAIN and/or AUX relay. If the car isn't in park, or something is wrong with the lockout circuit or relay, those two still click. The start inhibit relay is not very loud.

You can jump right to the starter by powering the white/red stripe wire on the unused socket at the back of the engine compartment. CAUTION - this will engage the starter regardless of what gear the car is in or if the key is on or off, so be 100% sure it's not in gear!

If that does not fire the starter, the problem is likely AT the starter.

My guess is that you pulled the start inhibit relay #9 out of the socket during this work, and pushing it back in popped one of the pins out of the back of the socket.

I tried jumping right to the starter as you suggested. I had the key in position #2. Nothing happened. Can you confirm this is the correct jump? I put 12v direct from the battery to it.

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=35932&stc=1

I also checked my relay #9. All 4 pins appear to be in place, lightly tugging from below did not move any of them. Here you can see the pins from the top:

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=35933&stc=1

It is just odd that my starter would die at the same time I'm messing with relays. Seems more likely that I bumped something else.

[DavidProehl]

It is just odd that my starter would die at the same time I'm messing with relays. Seems more likely that I bumped something else.

Then again, the starter is original, so even if that isn't the problem it is probably a good idea to replace it anyway. I'll give you a call tomorrow Dave to order one and eliminate a possible issue.

[davidc89]

You can try having someone cranking on it and you can tap on the starter with a hammer. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.

[DMCMW Dave]

Then again, the starter is original, so even if that isn't the problem it is probably a good idea to replace it anyway. I'll give you a call tomorrow Dave to order one and eliminate a possible issue.

You can go right to the starter with 12V as well but it's the inside terminal, hard to get to. Believe it or not, whacking the side of the starter with the biggest hammer you own is a remarkably effective idea.

[DavidProehl]

I will try a hammer on it tomorrow as well as applying 12v directly to it. Thanks again for the tips.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I have seen bad grounds on the front relay bank so maybe you have a bad ground on the rear bank. Anyway, easy to test with an ohm meter. Test for less than one ohm on the starter relay ground lug to the common ground at the back of the relay compartment.

Those relay sockets "daisy chain" the ground wires on each relay bank and the crimps with those double wires get flaky over time.

[DavidProehl]

You can go right to the starter with 12V as well but it's the inside terminal, hard to get to. Believe it or not, whacking the side of the starter with the biggest hammer you own is a remarkably effective idea.

I ran 12v directly to the terminal the red/white wire goes to on the starter with the key in the #2 position. I got a few sparks at the battery when I touched the terminal, but not a sound from the starter or solenoid. I take it that is confirmation of a dead starter and/or solenoid.

Just talked to Julee and have a new starter on the way. Hopefully that fixes it for me. I'll post again when I have it installed, that will likely be in 2 weeks since I'm headed out on vacation Friday.

[DavidProehl]

I have seen bad grounds on the front relay bank so maybe you have a bad ground on the rear bank. Anyway, easy to test with an ohm meter. Test for less than one ohm on the starter relay ground lug to the common ground at the back of the relay compartment.

Those relay sockets "daisy chain" the ground wires on each relay bank and the crimps with those double wires get flaky over time.

Also, I tested the ground as suggested, it was .1 ohm. Seems like a solid ground.

Just to be clear to anyone reading this, Bitsycmaster's relay had nothing to do with the trouble I'm having. Originally I thought I messed up the install and shorted something myself, but now I'm thinking now the starter is the issue. Once I get my starting issue sorted I'll be reinstalling his relay.

[DavidProehl]

The new starter has arrived and I'm back from vacation and continuing troubleshooting.

Facts:

New starter also doesn't fire
New starter will not run when 12v applied directly to solenoid lead (small sparks fly on contact, so there must be a circuit created)
Rest of car has power (lights, etc) so I know the cable direct from the battery to the starter has juice
I can run the old starter on a bench when attached directly to a 12v battery. Just can't do that when on the car. Starter doesn't seem to be the issue.


So knowing my starter is good, it has power, and applying a direct 12v signal won't force a start, what could be going on?

[Chris 16409]

I was thinking it seemed odd, you just developed a starter problem all of a sudden. Re-check all the wiring in the relay compartment. Maybe your circuit breaker died?

[DavidProehl]

I was thinking it seemed odd, you just developed a starter problem all of a sudden. Re-check all the wiring in the relay compartment. Maybe your circuit breaker died?

Great idea. I swore I've checked them 1,000 times, but I checked again. I found that I had bumped one of the wires off the circuit breaker. Now I hear a single click from the starter but still doesn't sound like it is trying to start beyond that.

I may just try throwing the old starter back in. Maybe I didn't install the new one properly.

[davidc89]

I would check your grounds and check how many amps you have when cranking. Could be a bad battery or connections on battery are loose. Check battery voltage on the battery when you are trying to crank on it.

[DavidProehl]

I would check your grounds and check how many amps you have when cranking. Could be a bad battery or connections on battery are loose. Check battery voltage on the battery when you are trying to crank on it.


SUCCESS!

I removed and reattached all the wires to the new starter, it now fires up! Thank you everyone for your help on this. Feeling pretty stupid that this was all likely caused due to me knocking one of the brown wires off the circuit breaker and not noticing it.

[Bitsyncmaster]

SUCCESS!

I removed and reattached all the wires to the new starter, it now fires up! Thank you everyone for your help on this. Feeling pretty stupid that this was all likely caused due to me knocking one of the brown wires off the circuit breaker and not noticing it.

I recommend replacing those "quick connects" with ring terminals.

[DavidProehl]

I recommend replacing those "quick connects" with ring terminals.

That is a really good idea. There is no reason for them to be quick connects. it isn't like they ever need to be touched. After this event, anything I can do to keep things wired as they should be is a good change!