Engine Oil Pan removal and replacement question

[FPBBrandon]

Hi All,

I found a bad helicoil job in the oil pan on 4835, and the pan needs to be replaced. I am planning on working from the guide below;

http://jason.kitcarmagazine.com/delorean/Oil-Pan-Removal.htm

I am wondering if anyone who has replaced their pan can provide any input on whether the manual transmission mounts should come off to perform this procedure, as I hear they are fragile and can break easily. I am planning to lift the motor at the trans from the ground as shown in the article. I have tried to search the board history but most of the advice on the procedure tends to lean towards "Don't perform it" as most are chasing perceived gasket leaks. The drain on mine appears to have had a helicoil jammed in it effectively with a smooth bore (i.e. nothing for the outside of the helicoil to bite), it's a wonder it has held this long. I have a replacement Josh gasket lined up to go with the work.

Any useful BTDT, words of wisdom/impending demise?

[PJ Grady Inc.]

Hi All,

I found a bad helicoil job in the oil pan on 4835, and the pan needs to be replaced. I am planning on working from the guide below;

http://jason.kitcarmagazine.com/delorean/Oil-Pan-Removal.htm

I am wondering if anyone who has replaced their pan can provide any input on whether the manual transmission mounts should come off to perform this procedure, as I hear they are fragile and can break easily. I am planning to lift the motor at the trans from the ground as shown in the article. I have tried to search the board history but most of the advice on the procedure tends to lean towards "Don't perform it" as most are chasing perceived gasket leaks. The drain on mine appears to have had a helicoil jammed in it effectively with a smooth bore (i.e. nothing for the outside of the helicoil to bite), it's a wonder it has held this long. I have a replacement Josh gasket lined up to go with the work.

Any useful BTDT, words of wisdom/impending demise?

You can lift up the engine enough to change the oil pan without harm to the tranny mounts. The rubber mounts flex enough to avoid damage to the metal ones. You will need to loosen the R/H exhaust hanger at the rocker cover and pull the exhaust tips down to allow the engine to lift up a bit more without damaging the rear facia. You may want to change the motor mounts at this time, if they're cracking, as you'll be halfway there anyway.

Rob

[FPBBrandon]

You can lift up the engine enough to change the oil pan without harm to the tranny mounts. The rubber mounts flex enough to avoid damage to the metal ones. You will need to loosen the R/H exhaust hanger at the rocker cover and pull the exhaust tips down to allow the engine to lift up a bit more without damaging the rear facia. You may want to change the motor mounts at this time, if they're cracking, as you'll be halfway there anyway.

Rob

Is jacking from the back of the tranny (as shown) generally speaking acceptable in lieu of buying a hoist? Thanks for the advice, Rob!

[PJ Grady Inc.]

Is jacking from the back of the tranny (as shown) generally speaking acceptable in lieu of buying a hoist? Thanks for the advice, Rob!

That jack point would be hard on the mounts. You should jack it up from the bottom of the timing cover. Just the engine...not the whole car!
Rob

[FPBBrandon]

That jack point would be hard on the mounts. You should jack it up from the bottom of the timing cover. Just the engine...not the whole car!
Rob

Thanks again Rob, I appreciate the advice!

[David T]

If you are pulling the pan because of a stripped drain hole, there are kits you can buy that you can repair the threads with without removing the pan. Removing the pan is a LOT of work! Removing the old gasket, which is like stone, is difficult especially because of it's position (overhead under the car). It also has to be done carefully so you don't gouge up the aluminum. I would try to repair the pan first. Worst case you oversize the hole and go with a pipe plug.

[DMCMW Dave]

If you are pulling the pan because of a stripped drain hole, there are kits you can buy that you can repair the threads with without removing the pan. .

Have you ever actually done this, with the engine still in the car? I can't fathom a way to get a tap of any sort in there without either dropping the pan or pulling the engine.

[FPBBrandon]

Have you ever actually done this, with the engine still in the car? I can't fathom a way to get a tap of any sort in there without either dropping the pan or pulling the engine.

The pan drop is out of necessity; prior owner outsized the hole with the prior fix and while tapping might be an option if there is clearance (Would be very very difficult with the position of the plug next to the motor cradle) would be concerned about having space around the drain bolt for a crush washer to seal with the current diameter of the hole (M18 is too small), as well as the tapping detritus falling into the pan. The Pan replacement strikes me as the (truly) unpleasant, unfortunate yet only viable option here.

[David T]

The pan drop is out of necessity; prior owner outsized the hole with the prior fix and while tapping might be an option if there is clearance (Would be very very difficult with the position of the plug next to the motor cradle) would be concerned about having space around the drain bolt for a crush washer to seal with the current diameter of the hole (M18 is too small), as well as the tapping detritus falling into the pan. The Pan replacement strikes me as the (truly) unpleasant, unfortunate yet only viable option here.

Once the pan is removed it can be repaired by welding and retapping the hole. BTW there are replacement drain plugs that are made of rubber which can fit even if there are no threads. Not the best way to go but possible.

[PJ Grady Inc.]

If you are pulling the pan because of a stripped drain hole, there are kits you can buy that you can repair the threads with without removing the pan. Removing the pan is a LOT of work! Removing the old gasket, which is like stone, is difficult especially because of it's position (overhead under the car). It also has to be done carefully so you don't gouge up the aluminum. I would try to repair the pan first. Worst case you oversize the hole and go with a pipe plug.

I believe he said a PO had already botched a repair attempt and he has a new pan on hand.
Rob

[FPBBrandon]

I believe he said a PO had already botched a repair attempt and he has a new pan on hand.
Rob

Job's done. Gasket was a nightmare as advertised. Pleased with the new pan.

36115

[FPBBrandon]

Job's done. Gasket was a nightmare as advertised. Pleased with the new pan.

36115

Forgot to add thanks again Rob!

[painterdave72]

I just had mine off two weeks ago to fix a broken oring on my pick up.. the pan comes off in about an hour..

[DMCMW Dave]

I just had mine off two weeks ago to fix a broken oring on my pick up.. the pan comes off in about an hour..

And another hour or two to scrape off the gasket. . . :wink:

[painterdave72]

I have had mine off in the past so it was easy!:hihi:

[FPBBrandon]

I have had mine off in the past so it was easy!:hihi:

I'm glad yours was easy.

[mluder]

http://jason.kitcarmagazine.com/delorean/Oil-Pan-Removal.htm



My pan seems to have started leaking around the bolts/gasket... Not sure exactly.
Anyway, the article seems to no longer be available. Any one have a copy of it?

Cheers
Steven

[DMCMW Dave]

My pan seems to have started leaking around the bolts/gasket... Not sure exactly.
Anyway, the article seems to no longer be available. Any one have a copy of it?

Cheers
Steven

Unless it was recently replaced (and not done correctly) it's not leaking. OEM pan gaskets just about never leak.

Check the oil pressure senders and the O-ring under the A/C pulley bracket. Those often look like pan gasket leaks.

[FPBBrandon]

Unless it was recently replaced (and not done correctly) it's not leaking. OEM pan gaskets just about never leak.

Check the oil pressure senders and the O-ring under the A/C pulley bracket. Those often look like pan gasket leaks.

Seconded, the OG gasket was effectively impenetrable on mine. I wouldn't pull the pan unless absolutely necessary;

That said, if push comes to shove and it is, I'll try to post a write up. Cliff notes version is get the car's rear on ramps, pull the two motor mount studs, jack up the motor by the timing cover (OG article said use the tranny just forward of the cradle, see Robs warning prior), undo bolts around the periphery, scrape old gasket. Reassemble in reverse order. The OEM paper is a nasty nasty job to remove, suggest acetone/brakleen to temper it a bit, it made it come off in bigger pieces for us. Use a flat razor (and change blades often) to scrape being careful not to mar the mating surface. I sanded my mating surface with 220 then 400 to clean up a few nicks I made. While doing this it would be good to mask the oil pickup tube and upper chamber to keep debris out.

As others have mentioned, it's not a bad time to change motor mounts either!

[DMC-81]

Unless it was recently replaced (and not done correctly) it's not leaking. OEM pan gaskets just about never leak.

Check the oil pressure senders and the O-ring under the A/C pulley bracket. Those often look like pan gasket leaks.

+2

I thought I had a pan gasket leak, and after cleaning it all up, I discovered that it was coming from the oil light sender, and the bottom of the timing cover (gasket).

[mluder]

Unless it was recently replaced (and not done correctly) it's not leaking. OEM pan gaskets just about never leak.

Check the oil pressure senders and the O-ring under the A/C pulley bracket. Those often look like pan gasket leaks.

Thanks, Dave.

Full disclosure - I'd recently done an oil change and went from 10W-30 Pennzoil to 10W-40 Castrol GTX. Could the higher viscosity cause enough of an increase in pressure to make it find a way out?
I checked the sender and the oil filter on the passenger side. Both were fine. Also, nothing seems to be leaking on the driver's side sensors though there appears to be some seeping at the rocker cover - Those gaskets were new two years ago and never leaked. I did have a minor leak from the closing plate behind the AC idler assembly but that o-ring was replaced when I did the oil change.

36172361733617436175361763617736178

Cheers
Steve

[DMCMW Dave]

Thanks, Dave.

Full disclosure - I'd recently done an oil change and went from 10W-30 Pennzoil to 10W-40 Castrol GTX. Could the higher viscosity cause enough of an increase in pressure to make it find a way out?
I checked the sender and the oil filter on the passenger side. Both were fine. Also, nothing seems to be leaking on the driver's side sensors though there appears to be some seeping at the rocker cover - Those gaskets were new two years ago and never leaked. I did have a minor leak from the closing plate behind the AC idler assembly but that o-ring was replaced when I did the oil change.



Cheers
Steve

I wouldn't think the oil would make a difference as there is no oil pressure in that area. It's a holding pan.

[mluder]

I wouldn't think the oil would make a difference as there is no oil pressure in that area. It's a holding pan.

My thoughts as well. :confused2:

Steve

[PJ Grady Inc.]

+2

I thought I had a pan gasket leak, and after cleaning it all up, I discovered that it was coming from the oil light sender, and the bottom of the timing cover (gasket).
I can't recall an original oil light sender that didn't eventually leak and the aftermarket versions are worse. I reseal ours with an internal Oring on the stud that holds the electric terminal which means I am essentially rebuilding the new ones before I send them out....go figure! Anyway I've found this to be the only way to keep them leak free and why I charge a bit more for them than some other vendors. Why install a part thats gauranteed to leak oil?
Rob

[DMC-81]

Hi Steve,

From your pictures (5 and 6), there seems to be oil dripping down from your crankshaft pulley seal (102573)? You may want to clean that front area again and verify.

Dana

[mluder]

Hi Steve,

From your pictures (5 and 6), there seems to be oil dripping down from your crankshaft pulley seal (102573)? You may want to clean that front area again and verify.

Dana

This is my concern... It seems to be coming out of everywhere there's a joint. It wasn't prior to this oil change.
I think I'm just going to change it again and go back to the Pennzoil 10W-30 and see if it dries up.

Cheers
Steven

[kings1527]

I can't recall an original oil light sender that didn't eventually leak and the aftermarket versions are worse. I reseal ours with an internal Oring on the stud that holds the electric terminal which means I am essentially rebuilding the new ones before I send them out....go figure! Anyway I've found this to be the only way to keep them leak free and why I charge a bit more for them than some other vendors. Why install a part thats gauranteed to leak oil?
Rob

Exactly, Rob. I'd happily pay a premium for a part with extra longevity. Easy decision, there. I know who I'm calling next time mine leaks.

A poor design on the originals that I'm sure would've been redesigned or improved sooner than later had production continued.

[David T]

Exactly, Rob. I'd happily pay a premium for a part with extra longevity. Easy decision, there. I know who I'm calling next time mine leaks.

A poor design on the originals that I'm sure would've been redesigned or improved sooner than later had production continued.

Actually that is a Renault part and the new ones are still made the same way. I have had success taking them apart, cleaning with alcohol, and reassembling using silicone sealer (sensor safe of course!). The wire that goes to that sender gets burnt up and then when you are driving in the rain the light goes on. Either spice in a piece of wire with better insulation or slip a firesleeve over it. As for your leaks, make sure you did not overfill the motor. Check the level one morning, before you start the motor for the day when the car is on level ground. If it is over the full mark remove some oil till it is either at the full mark or at least in between the full and low marks. I try to keep mine in the middle between full and low. Not unusual for the crank seal to leak anyway. It may just have to be changed. Can be done without removing the cover.

[kings1527]

It seems like a very poor location, being in such close proximity to the exhaust system, that something would've had to be done to take care of the problem. The plastic plug on the oil pressure light switch never had a chance in that location.

[SS Spoiler]

Iv'e seen guys use some brass 45 degree fitting to move the sending
unit to a cooler spot.

[DMCMW Dave]

It seems like a very poor location, being in such close proximity to the exhaust system, that something would've had to be done to take care of the problem. The plastic plug on the oil pressure light switch never had a chance in that location.

In a front drive application the converter is at the other end of the car.


Sent from phone

[David T]

Iv'e seen guys use some brass 45 degree fitting to move the sending
unit to a cooler spot.

You must mean the one on the right side for the gauge and they use the angle fitting to get more room for a larger filter. There is no way you can put a fitting into the block for the sender unit for the light.

[Morpheus]

I can't recall an original oil light sender that didn't eventually leak and the aftermarket versions are worse. I reseal ours with an internal Oring on the stud that holds the electric terminal which means I am essentially rebuilding the new ones before I send them out....go figure! Anyway I've found this to be the only way to keep them leak free and why I charge a bit more for them than some other vendors. Why install a part thats gauranteed to leak oil?
Rob

Out of curiosity, how much do you charge for the improved leak-free oil light sender? Do you have any available?

[PJ Grady Inc.]

Out of curiosity, how much do you charge for the improved leak-free oil light sender? Do you have any available?

An original light sender replated and properly sealed is $34.95 (#102462GR) plus a $25- core charge (billed if not returned after 30 days).
A new aftermarket light sender included the improved sealing is $29.95 (#102462G) and no core is required.
If you have the original I'd suggest the reconditioned original sender as they are beefier than the aftermarket sensor.
If yours is already aftermarket just order the new one to keep it simple.
Rob

[Morpheus]

Rob, can you tell if it's original by this picture?
36355


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PJ Grady Inc.]

Rob, can you tell if it's original by this picture?
36355


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That looks like an original to me. Congrat's!
P.S. I'll be out of town till Tues. if you should want to place an order.
Rob