New Nose - Facia and Spoiler Design

[Timebender]

For a while now I've been tossing around the idea of designing a new front facia and spoiler for our cars. As much as I like the classic boxy look of what we have now (which is very iconic of the 80's altogether), I wondered what would GG do if he had some of the tech we have today with LED and or Laser headlights, as well as lower profile lights in general?

So this is merely a design study - for now here is the side view (this is not my car so credit of the actual photo goes to whoever it belongs to), as I currently don't have a good side photo of mine, and I was bored at work today - again.

I'll be doing a front view next.
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=36290&d=1440195440
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=36291&d=1440195441

[Riley88]

But i like the facia:(

[Timebender]

Me too - as I said more of a design study and "what if?"

[Mario]

I don't know - can't say I agree with having the fascia slope down after the hood. It just doesn't flow with the rest of the car. I see what you did, where the slope is the same as the windshield and the chop at the front matches the forward door line. It doesn't look quite right, though.

[refugeefromcalif]

Just my .02.
I do like the stock fascia and spoiler but, If was going to redesign it, I'd made it more symmetrical to the rear, (From a side view perspective).

Basically, eliminate it's forward sweeping look and follow the downward lines from the black bumper to fender, to wheel. Like the rear quarter panel does going upward to the rear bumper.
Where/How you'd mount the radiator there is another thing... :hmm:
I'm Not a Photoshop person so hopefully you get what I'm saying.

George

[mr_maxime]

Id prefer it if the slope matched the slope of the hood and kept the stock spoiler

[Timebender]

So pretty much how it is now.

[mr_maxime]

The front fascia is the only design of the car I dont care too much for. Its mostly just that plastic grill though.

[Timebender]

You know I didn't realize it, but I must have seen a de Tomaso Mangusta in the past a long long time ago, as subconsciously my design is leaning towards that nose, as well as the nose of a 1969 Shelby Mustang (my most favorite Mustang design ever). Though the design I have is less dramatic then the Shelby GT. Also, I really hadn't been thinking of mimicking the angles of the door, though I guess somewhere it just kinda happened.

The Mangusta:

http://onlytruecars.com/data_images/gallery/01/de-tomaso-mangusta/de-tomaso-mangusta-09.jpg

and the Shelby:

http://www.conceptcarz.com/images/Ford/69-Shelby-Mustang-GT500-DV-09-GC_01.jpg

[Timebender]

Two more styles. I'm probably going to work on some front and top views too. I also lowered the car to match the height on mine. Just a quick 2 minute Photoshop job on the lowering, so there's lots of areas not cleaned up.

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=36341&d=1440559467

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=36342&d=1440559468



3634136342

[Exolis]

What about something more modern where the bottom part is sticking out the most and curved top? Personally I would try to lower the Fascia/Spoiler too so the bottom is lined up with the bottom trim pieces between the front and back wheels.

Is redesigning the Front Fascia something you are going to actively pursue? Got any drawings or plan to drawings for a front view?

[Timebender]

I think there's only so much you can do due to the body angle coming up from the front wheels- so there's really not a lot of room to move the facia down from my guess.

As far as doing something, I might or might not- depending on time, material costs, etc.

If I were to do something that would be an update of what we have now, I'd take out the fake grill (since it doesn't provide any air flow anyway), and the old headlights, make a new grill that works, black out the background, and put in more modern lights, whether that's laser lights, or one piece, or something. I'd also replace the rectangular turn signals with round ones, and put in some driving lights down below... that would be easiest route to go.

Like this:
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=36345&d=1440609545

[Timebender]

And with headlight covers as well as round Dodge style headlights.
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=36348&d=1440622411
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=36349&d=1440622413


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[Nicholas R]

I REALLY like that grill design! Also a fan of the round headlights.

To be honest, I hate the look of the car head on. Its about the only view/angle of the car that I do not like. I cant put my finger on exactly what it is but I've just never liked it. I think it must be all of the rectangles and right angles. I could totally see doing something like this.


And with headlight covers as well as round Dodge style headlights.
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=36348&d=1440622411
[/IMG]
]

[mr_maxime]

Sold on this. I'd put it on my car even if the grill doesnt work.



Like this:
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=36345&d=1440609545

Dodge headlights arent bad, but then they remind me too much of a dodge.

[Timebender]

Thanks guys!
The grill would be easy to make thanks to the magic of 3D printing and then a little chroming (though there are metal 3D printers). Plus that would allow a lot more air flow to our radiators - I don't get the current setup personally. Or 3D print one (or build it out of tubing), make a mold, then create resin casts. Those would be the same if not better than the existing plastic one.

The round headlights would be an easy adaption to the existing wiring, and I'd make a blackout piece for either side that surrounds the headlights but allows a screwdriver to get in to adjust them (and paint the hardware black). The laser headlights could probably be adapted once they're available to the general public, but a pair of single piece rectangular or even angled headlamps from any higher end car would work too.

Also I'd get the fiberglass facia, and have them not put in the blocks that create the recesses for the turn signals - assuming those are put in before doing the layup, and instead round ones for the round turn signals.

If you want to just keep your existing fascia, then all you'd need to do is create a blackout section out of plexi or metal, adapt your type of headlights, and then pop out the existing grill and pop this one in (either using the snaps or even mount with self-tapping screws through flanges on the grill).

[Exolis]

Pretty sweet looking from the front. I do like the idea of making the top grill functional. It kinda annoys me it's just a big block of plastic.

[Timebender]

One of the greatest design flaws that's so easily fixable- at the least one can Dremel out the back to create more airflow to get to the radiator.

[Farrar]

I'd extend the fascia forward by a few inches. That would make the slope less severe. It would also give you room for those "buried" headlights and other features.

[Timebender]

True, and interesting idea. I'll have to work on it when I have time at work, since there's really not much else to do.

[Tomcio]

I, on the other hand, like the rectangular headlights. Always did. In my opinion it goes well with the rest of the car as it is all sharp angles and round headlights just do not correspond to anything... well, maybe except for the wheels ;)
What I'm not too happy about is the black bumpers. I thought about doing something about it but I'm not a great designer and everything that I tried looked just wrong.


[...] Plus that would allow a lot more air flow to our radiators - I don't get the current setup personally. [...]

How exactly are you planning on directing the air from above the bumper all way down to the radiator?
The current setup was made like this because there is really no practical way of doing it. When you remove the center grill you will see that there is a fiberglass "shelf" right below it with foam bumper bolted to it. You would have to cut that center section off in order to direct air from the grill to the radiator. I'm sorry, but cutting about half of the front bumper is not a very good idea in my opinion.

Here's a view of the front of the car with the fascia removed (I hope the owner doesn't mind me using this picture, I found it on the web):
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=36387&stc=1

1 - this is the foam bumper that is bolted to the car with three bolts and brackets that go all the way through the front of the car. You can even see them inside the jack compartment. Remove the jack and you'll see a metal rod on the bottom that goes from the front through the fiberglass.
2. This is the fiberglass "shelf" that makes the main structure of the bumper and this is what the foam bumper bolts to.
The horizontal line that I've added is about where the fascia ends. As you can see it reaches almost all the way to the fiberglass. So... the only way to get the air down to the radiator is to cut this whole center section of the fiberglass off. I don't believe this would be a very good idea.

Another thing is the airflow. Air from below the bumper is directed up and through the radiator. If you direct air down from the center grill it will cause a lot of turbulence when it encounters the main flow going up. That, in effect, might actually decrease the amount of air flowing through the radiator. The car might start to overheat.
The original design is actually very good and I believe that a lot of thought went into designing the air intake for the radiator. Air is directed in by the bumper (slight down slope), and the spoiler (up and from the sides). As the air passes through the smaller opening it speeds up. Then as the area increases the airflow slows dramatically when it goes through the radiator taking as much heat away as possible. Again, this is a very good design.

I believe that there is no practical way to make the grill functional (for cooling) and if you do you might actually decrease the performance of the radiator.
You can still make it look better though ;)

[Timebender]

Good points. I was in fact unaware of all that behind the bumper and "grill". I was giving consideration to the fact out here in SoCal, it gets very hot (as I'm sure it does elsewhere) and then you're picking up hot air off the asphalt as you drive, thus now moving very hot air (200 some degrees off the pavement) up into your radiator area. If air was entering from higher up, then you would be getting cooler air.
But yes, the smaller intake below does cause the air to rush in faster. It would be nice if you could be moving in cooler air.
On my car I have a massive radiator that actually makes it's way into the front trunk, so my thought was if I could get a lot more air across it, my car would probably run a lot cooler in stop and go traffic on a hot day.

I don't think you'd have to remove any of the shelf or bumper foam, at least on mine, I could cut out some small round ports in the back wall where the radiator sits behind it.

[Delorean3610]

You could always install an oil cooler to almost double your cooling ability.

[Timebender]

That's true.

[mr_maxime]

I showed my friend the design I liked and he showed me this "stupid" thing he's seen other cars do called "angel headlights." Lol I ended up thinking it looked cool so I cobbled together something for my car.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a353/mr_maxime/Delorean/delolights_zps3x34tpv5.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/mr_maxime/media/Delorean/delolights_zps3x34tpv5.jpg.html)

[Timebender]

Nicely done. Is your DeLorean black?

[DMCVegas]

Good points. I was in fact unaware of all that behind the bumper and "grill". I was giving consideration to the fact out here in SoCal, it gets very hot (as I'm sure it does elsewhere) and then you're picking up hot air off the asphalt as you drive, thus now moving very hot air (200 some degrees off the pavement) up into your radiator area. If air was entering from higher up, then you would be getting cooler air.
But yes, the smaller intake below does cause the air to rush in faster. It would be nice if you could be moving in cooler air.
On my car I have a massive radiator that actually makes it's way into the front trunk, so my thought was if I could get a lot more air across it, my car would probably run a lot cooler in stop and go traffic on a hot day.

I don't think you'd have to remove any of the shelf or bumper foam, at least on mine, I could cut out some small round ports in the back wall where the radiator sits behind it.

Research Robert's DeLotus conversion. He actually has the heat exchangers for his charge air coolers mounted up front behind the radiator, with slits cut into the stock grille to allow airflow. He's running a twin-turbo V8 in the Vegas desert with no overheating problems.

http://www.entermyworld.com/cat/custom/lc/lcppq.jpg

[mr_maxime]

Nicely done. Is your DeLorean black?

Yes. So I wouldnt need to black anything out lol

[Timebender]

Research Robert's DeLotus conversion. He actually has the heat exchangers for his charge air coolers mounted up front behind the radiator, with slits cut into the stock grille to allow airflow. He's running a twin-turbo V8 in the Vegas desert with no overheating problems.

http://www.entermyworld.com/cat/custom/lc/lcppq.jpg

That makes complete sense to me. I'll have to take a look at his site.

[Timebender]

Research Robert's DeLotus conversion. He actually has the heat exchangers for his charge air coolers mounted up front behind the radiator, with slits cut into the stock grille to allow airflow. He's running a twin-turbo V8 in the Vegas desert with no overheating problems.

http://www.entermyworld.com/cat/custom/lc/lcppq.jpg

Where can I find it?

[DMCVegas]

Where can I find it?

That photo came off of the entermyworld.com website.

AZ-D came to Vegas back in 2005 were a few of us local owners met with them, and got a chance to take a look at DeLotus with the engine removed. In this photo here, you can see where the coolers are installed. Look to where the Automatic Transmission Cooler is normally located at.

http://az-d.org/v-web/gallery/albums/vegas/LVDeLotusBay.jpg

There are two Charge Cooler systems, and they mirror each other on either side of the car. The blue hose is for the coolant, and it all gets pumped up front to those radiators and back again.

http://www.entermyworld.com/cat/custom/lc/lch.jpg

This eliminated a need for ductwork to be installed in the back engine compartment to pull cool air in from outside. For the life of me, I can't remember how the air off of the heat exchangers is vented. The area behind the grille and headlights is cavernous though. I don't remember if it drops down to the radiator intake, or if it dumps behind the headlights.

I can't view RealMedia files here at work, so I don't know if this is what you need or not. But perhaps the videos here could help:

http://www.entermyworld.com/gallery/dmc-lotus-conversion?pg=4

[Timebender]

Good information and it gives me some ideas as to what I can do on a much smaller scale.