Idling engine stopped, and won't start again.

[burch]

The last few days, I was having some issues with the cooling fans on 6631, seemed to be coming on only intermittently when in the proper temperature range. I'm in Arizona, so it is pretty easy to get the car up to temperature to test this out. Thought I'd let the car idle in the driveway and heat up while I worked in the garage.

About 5-10 minutes later, the car died. No indication of trouble, sputtering, anything, just shut off. I walked out and tried to start it back up, and it would crank, but would never turn over. Let it sit for a few hours, tried to start again, same thing. Waited overnight, tried again, same issue. Pushed it back into the garage.

Here's what I've done so far on troubleshooting:

1. Verified enough fuel was in the tank (actually took out the fuel sender just to get a visual).
2. Tried with and without bitsyncmaster's hot start relay in place.
3. Checked all fuses, with the thought that maybe either 7 or 1 had burned.
4. Jumpered the RPM relay to check the fuel pump. Pump is one of Hervey's newer style units, and runs too quietly to hear from the cabin.
5. Double checked the inertia switch and it's connector.

Everything above checked out. Since I haven't been able to completely verify that I'm getting fuel out of the pump, my next thought would be to put the outbound fuel line from the pump into a gas can and crank the car to see if I'm getting anything there (first with RPM relay in place, and then with a jumper if no fuel is pumping) There may be a better way to check this back at the engine, so if anyone has a suggestion on that, please let me know.

I've been combing through the forums here, seems like there are a few hundred places where there could be an issue. Assuming the fuel pump comes back good (expecting it to, as it is only about 4 months old), I'll have to start digging deeper. Any other low-hanging fruit that I may be able to check?

[Bitsyncmaster]

You can check if you have fuel pressure by removing the air cleaner and pressing the air plate to see if it has resistance to move.

You can also verify if your problem is ignition or fuel by giving the engine a shot of starting fluid down that air plate opening.

[Jonathan]

Another easy place to check is the ballast resistor connections. If one or more of those isn't connected properly, it might do what your car did.

In fact, if it just shut off like that without signs of sputtering or struggling, I would assume it is electrical.

Perhaps check over the rest of the fuse and relay area, specifically the starter relay (#29 on the diagram). You could check to see if it went bad by swapping it out with a replacement. Be careful doing this as the relays are not all the same, so make sure if you swap one out with another to test that it is the same type. (I don't recall if Dave's hot start relay IS the replacement for the starter relay, or whether that one goes somewhere else.)

[louielouie2000]

In fact, if it just shut off like that without signs of sputtering or struggling, I would assume it is electrical.

I agree. The first thing that comes to mind is the RPM relay. Symptoms are exactly the same as when mine went- the car was running just fine, and then it suddenly cut off cold. Is anyone still making the solid state RPM relays? If those are still available, I'd advise upgrading to one even if your current one is good.

[burch]

Quick update, there was zero pressure at the plate, and I was actually able to start the car. Ran it for a few minutes, turned it off, and there was resistance at the plate again. Tried to start again, no joy. Fuel pressure seems to be diminishing pretty quickly, so that has to be part of the problem. I replaced the PPR O-ring a couple of months ago, I'll have to check that out. My buddy has a pressure gauge, so we'll work with that and get this figured out.

[louielouie2000]

Quick update, there was zero pressure at the plate, and I was actually able to start the car. Ran it for a few minutes, turned it off, and there was resistance at the plate again. Tried to start again, no joy. Fuel pressure seems to be diminishing pretty quickly, so that has to be part of the problem. I replaced the PPR O-ring a couple of months ago, I'll have to check that out. My buddy has a pressure gauge, so we'll work with that and get this figured out.

That's possibly a fuel accumulator issue.

[burch]

That's possibly a fuel accumulator issue.

Likely could be. Would hope not, as the accumulator is only about 5 months old. But with that kind of loss that quickly, it is possible.

[Bitsyncmaster]

You can get a rest pressure hold time my just tapping that air plate timing how long it take to have no resistance. You would do that after your fuel pump has run to pressurize the accumulator. You really need to hold rest pressure for 4 hours if you drive in 90 or 100 degree days to prevent warm or hot starts.

[burch]

Couple of developments on this thread:

1. While attempting to test the fuel pump, I managed to leave the keys set to ACC, and killed my battery /facepalm.

2. After a nice recharge, I was able to get the car started, and noticed a fuel drip on the return line. Replaced the line, car won't start again.

3. Digging a bit deeper on the fuel pump front, I pulled the plug (this is Hervey's newer type of pump), and the area around the ground wire is scorched. I've got an email into John to see what he thinks about it. Not good, for sure. Plug still shows continuity, but I'm not plugging it back in until I figure out what's up.

3637736378

[Ryan King]

Couple of developments on this thread:

1. While attempting to test the fuel pump, I managed to leave the keys set to ACC, and killed my battery /facepalm.

2. After a nice recharge, I was able to get the car started, and noticed a fuel drip on the return line. Replaced the line, car won't start again.

3. Digging a bit deeper on the fuel pump front, I pulled the plug (this is Hervey's newer type of pump), and the area around the ground wire is scorched. I've got an email into John to see what he thinks about it. Not good, for sure. Plug still shows continuity, but I'm not plugging it back in until I figure out what's up.

3637736378

The plugs that Hervey uses for his Fuel Pump he's sourced from eBay, the plugs are for a "scooter application". In addition, the wires, IMO, aren't the correct gauge, probably causes the wires to heat up and the plastic to melt. He bends the terminals in the pump ever so slightly to accommodate his connector. Im not surprised you are having problems with that cheap connector. I ditched that connector and went with the correct GM style plug that SHOULD go to this style pump. Hervey uses a Chevy Suburban Style pump. I will try and find you a link to the correct connector. I would advise you ditch that one.

I would guess you're not getting a good connection at the pump with that connector. I would probably bet getting the right one on there will help with your problem.

[burch]

Thanks, Ryan.

Yeah, the gauge seems just a bit smaller on the harness connector than the OEM wiring connected to it. I'll start poking around too.

[burch]

It's not this guy, is it? http://www.amazon.com/Harness-Connector-1996-2007-updating-connector/dp/B00F8JAHVA

[Ryan King]

It's not this guy, is it? http://www.amazon.com/Harness-Connector-1996-2007-updating-connector/dp/B00F8JAHVA

No. Thats close..but not it. It took me a LONG time and a lot of research with another owner on here to find it. He said he will upload the link for you. Sit tight.

[Chris 16409]

Okay, here is the part you need:

http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-PT1537-Original-Equipment-Multi-Purpose/dp/B000C9TW2G

It took me a lot of time trying to figure this plug out. Not many manufactures are making this anymore since it was replaced with a different style plug. Like the one on Houston's pump. Anyway, this is best price I could find. You will have to bend your pump terminals back into their original position in order for the plug to work. I didn't realize Hervey bent the terminals to accommodate his plug. Good Luck.

[Ryan King]

Okay, here is the part you need:

http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-PT1537-Original-Equipment-Multi-Purpose/dp/B000C9TW2G

It took me a lot of time trying to figure this plug out. Not many manufactures are making this anymore since it was replaced with a different style plug. Like the one on Houston's pump. Anyway, this is best price I could find. You will have to bend your pump terminals back into their original position in order for the plug to work. I didn't realize Hervey bent the terminals to accommodate his plug. Good Luck.

Yup. Thats what you need. It has thicker gauged wire...a MUCH better fit into the pump. It locks into place.

[burch]

Thanks guys! Ordered it tonight. Appreciate the info!

[burch]

Doesn't look like the pins are bent *too* much...shouldn't be tough to get them realigned.

36380

[Chris 16409]

Yeah he doesn't bend them very much to accommodate his plug. However the tolerances are very small for pin alignment. I was able to and its the pins back into place without taking my pump out, so if you have yours on the bench in will be a price of cake.

[Ryan King]

Thanks guys! Ordered it tonight. Appreciate the info!

Not a problem! We're all in this together!

[burch]

Yeah he doesn't bend them very much to accommodate his plug. However the tolerances are very small for pin alignment. I was able to and its the pins back into place without taking my pump out, so if you have yours on the bench in will be a price of cake.

It's installed, just got crafty with the phone camera to take a picture :)

[Bitsyncmaster]

Yeah he doesn't bend them very much to accommodate his plug. However the tolerances are very small for pin alignment. I was able to and its the pins back into place without taking my pump out, so if you have yours on the bench in will be a price of cake.

+1
Connector pin alignment is very critical to keep the pins working as designed. That is why most connectors have a pin that floats (move a little) on one side of the connector.

[Ryan King]

It's installed, just got crafty with the phone camera to take a picture :)

Let us know how it goes, if the connector fixes your problem.

And two things...

1. I am curious to what John Hervey will email you back saying the problem is.

2. Make sure you are Soldering & Shrink Wrapping this connector on. Please don't use those electrical splices...splicey means dicey. Those wires run a lot of current/load. Make sure you do the job the right way. And if you already are, then props to you.

[Chris 16409]

This is how my harness turned out:

36415

I wanted to keep the stock connector on the harness coming from the car. But, you can also hard-wire the new fuel pump harness directly to the car's wiring. Ryan's original wiring harness connector had gone bad, so we wired the new fuel pump connector directly.