Engine has no power and sucks gas

[bfloyd]

Finally got my car on the road after 10 months of ownership. I have replaced the fuel pump, accumulator, fuel filter, water pump, all the hoses, all new vacuum lines, new fuel lines, did the major engine tune up kit (plugs, wires, distributor cap, valve cover gaskets, etc.), ultrasonically cleaned the injectors, etc. it's finally all back together. I did have an issue with it not starting unless I cracked open the metering plate, but I was able to adjust the fuel/air mixture screw 1/4 turn to the right (clockwise) and that cleared the starting issue right up.

I have a new O2 sensor, but have yet to replace it. The one that is in the car is probably original.

When I pulled the injectors to replace the boots, I did a spray test, and they all spray very evenly. I was actually impressed.

When I start the engine, it fires up strong then immediately stumbles for about 30-45 seconds then it evens out and runs smooth. If I try to give it gas right after I start it, it almost wants to stall, but never fully does.

It idles high (close to 1,100 RPM), but even adjusting the two screws on the throttle assembly, it doesn't seem to make a difference. I can physically push the microswitch and the RPM's kick down to around 750+/-. I'm thinking it's a linkage issue, but everything looks to be in order, and nothing seems to bind.

This weekend while out driving, I noticed the battery light came on, but if I speeded up, it went out. Same thing happened last night when putting it back in the garage. Once it goes out when up to speed, it doesn't come back on.

I do have a leaky mode switch, as there is a constant "hiss" behind the console. Would the mode switch leak be enough to cause engine issues?

Driving.... Reverse is great. Drive.... not so much. It seems that there is just no power when trying to take off from a dead stop. I can press the gas all the way to the floor and might make it up to 20-30 miles an hour in 15-20 seconds. I can't pull out onto the road unless it's clear traffic in both directions.
Feels almost like it's starting out in second gear instead of first. Yes, it's an automatic. I haven't checked the transmission fluid yet, so it might just need topping off, but I fear there's something more.

Gas mileage.... Something is WAY wrong here. I took it down to the station and filled it up full and have gone through 1/2 a tank in roughly 60 miles.

[novadmc]

When I start the engine, it fires up strong then immediately stumbles for about 30-45 seconds then it evens out and runs smooth. If I try to give it gas right after I start it, it almost wants to stall, but never fully does.

Is the lack of pedal response happen when the engine is cold, hot, or both?
I've got a slight version of that issue (only lasts for the 1st few seconds after starting if the car's been sitting for over 30 mins). best guess @ this time is accumulator just isn't holding rest pressure.
(i've got a manual tho so your issue could be automatic trans related if its bogging and not selecting the the right gear to start)



It idles high (close to 1,100 RPM), but even adjusting the two screws on the throttle assembly, it doesn't seem to make a difference. I can physically push the microswitch and the RPM's kick down to around 750+/-. I'm thinking it's a linkage issue, but everything looks to be in order, and nothing seems to bind.

I had a similar issue after doing the major service kit.
Make sure the linkage is fully depressing the microswitch when its at rest. Lengthen the assembly throttle rod by a few turns so that the throttle lever is fully depressing the microswitch when at rest.

[Kozmatic]

Driving - you're likely looking at a bad transmission computer governor. They will start in 2nd or 3rd or do all kinds of crazy things when bad. Do some searches on this site to find more info

Gas mileage - are you certain the gauge is reading right? Is the float in the fuel level assembly working correctly? Is it original? Sure you're not actually leaking fuel? Check the injector sites if you've pulled them. Last thing you want is a fuel leak and a fire.

Leaking mode switch - seriously doubt this would hurt engine performance. I've had two bad ones and neither affected performance one way or the other.

Battery light - sounds like bad alternator, but i would check all ground locations and make sure you have things clean & tight

High idle - if you press the micro switch and it solves it, you're correct, it's probably an adjustment issue

Rough idle when cold - welcome to warm up hell. This one is kicking my butt currently with all components replaced :mallet:

[bytes311]

Finally got my car on the road after 10 months of ownership. I have replaced the fuel pump, accumulator, fuel filter, water pump, all the hoses, all new vacuum lines, new fuel lines, did the major engine tune up kit (plugs, wires, distributor cap, valve cover gaskets, etc.), ultrasonically cleaned the injectors, etc. it's finally all back together. I did have an issue with it not starting unless I cracked open the metering plate, but I was able to adjust the fuel/air mixture screw 1/4 turn to the right (clockwise) and that cleared the starting issue right up.

I have a new O2 sensor, but have yet to replace it. The one that is in the car is probably original.

When I pulled the injectors to replace the boots, I did a spray test, and they all spray very evenly. I was actually impressed.

When I start the engine, it fires up strong then immediately stumbles for about 30-45 seconds then it evens out and runs smooth. If I try to give it gas right after I start it, it almost wants to stall, but never fully does.

It idles high (close to 1,100 RPM), but even adjusting the two screws on the throttle assembly, it doesn't seem to make a difference. I can physically push the microswitch and the RPM's kick down to around 750+/-. I'm thinking it's a linkage issue, but everything looks to be in order, and nothing seems to bind.

This weekend while out driving, I noticed the battery light came on, but if I speeded up, it went out. Same thing happened last night when putting it back in the garage. Once it goes out when up to speed, it doesn't come back on.

I do have a leaky mode switch, as there is a constant "hiss" behind the console. Would the mode switch leak be enough to cause engine issues?

Driving.... Reverse is great. Drive.... not so much. It seems that there is just no power when trying to take off from a dead stop. I can press the gas all the way to the floor and might make it up to 20-30 miles an hour in 15-20 seconds. I can't pull out onto the road unless it's clear traffic in both directions.
Feels almost like it's starting out in second gear instead of first. Yes, it's an automatic. I haven't checked the transmission fluid yet, so it might just need topping off, but I fear there's something more.

Gas mileage.... Something is WAY wrong here. I took it down to the station and filled it up full and have gone through 1/2 a tank in roughly 60 miles.

Can you feel it switch between gears? My auto used to take off sluggish because it was stuck in 2nd or 3rd gear. My computer governor was the culprit.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Just letting you engine idle a lot will use a lot of gas.

With all those repairs you probably need to adjust the mixture accurately. Is you FV buzzing? You can not set the mixture for best idle, you would set it way to rich. You need a dwell meter or exhaust analyzer.

[Jonathan]

+1 on the shift computer likely causing the lack of power at take-off problem. It could still be fluid level or pressure related, so check that and the filter too. You can buy replacement filters now thankfully.

There is a test to force the shift computer into 3rd by pulling the fuse (it defaults into 3rd with no power to that circuit), but that won't help you much. What you might consider doing is rigging up the test lights on the diagnostic plug (the round one that is part of the computer governor harness and not the square one that can be used for checking dwell). What this light set-up will tell you is what gear the trans is in. It is just two lights, so fairly simple to see whether it is trying to be in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd. If the car is trying to be in 3rd right off the bat, that's generally spelling shift computer trouble.

They can be rebuilt in a few different ways. You can send DMCX yours as a core once removed from the car and they'll rebuild it using nowadays technology. If the wiring harness isn't all melted (what often causes problems from it lying on top of the exhaust cross over pipe) you get your core credit back.

[David T]

+1 on the shift computer likely causing the lack of power at take-off problem. It could still be fluid level or pressure related, so check that and the filter too. You can buy replacement filters now thankfully.

There is a test to force the shift computer into 3rd by pulling the fuse (it defaults into 3rd with no power to that circuit), but that won't help you much. What you might consider doing is rigging up the test lights on the diagnostic plug (the round one that is part of the computer governor harness and not the square one that can be used for checking dwell). What this light set-up will tell you is what gear the trans is in. It is just two lights, so fairly simple to see whether it is trying to be in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd. If the car is trying to be in 3rd right off the bat, that's generally spelling shift computer trouble.

They can be rebuilt in a few different ways. You can send DMCX yours as a core once removed from the car and they'll rebuild it using nowadays technology. If the wiring harness isn't all melted (what often causes problems from it lying on top of the exhaust cross over pipe) you get your core credit back.

Check the power to the shift computer, fuse # 13, 10 amps. Check that all of the plugs are connected and none of the wires going to the transmission got burned by the hot exhaust pipes. If all of the external checks appear OK you probably need to repair the shift computer, it is not getting into 1st gear. You can construct a light box to see what gear the shift computer is commanding the transmission to be in and there is a chart MPH v RPM to see how fast you are going and what gear. Look in the files section.
As for the high gas consumption, check the timing and the mechanical and vacuum advance systems. Then adjust the mixture using the dwell meter. You may also have a dragging/frozen caliper or 2 making the car hard to roll.

[DMCMW Dave]

Driving.... Reverse is great. Drive.... not so much. It seems that there is just no power when trying to take off from a dead stop. I can press the gas all the way to the floor and might make it up to 20-30 miles an hour in 15-20 seconds. I can't pull out onto the road unless it's clear traffic in both directions.
Feels almost like it's starting out in second gear instead of first. Yes, it's an automatic. I haven't checked the transmission fluid yet, so it might just need topping off, but I fear there's something more.
.

If the governor is bad (and I'm sure it is) quit driving it. You're just burning up the clutches in the trans, especially if you are flooring it. Which is a LOT more expensive than a governor.

[bfloyd]

Could it be as simple as the wrong red harness plugged into the bulkhead?

Which one plugs into the red bulkhead connection... Left or Right?http://i.imgur.com/MMfQUV3.jpg

[SKnight]

Driving.... Reverse is great. Drive.... not so much. It seems that there is just no power when trying to take off from a dead stop. I can press the gas all the way to the floor and might make it up to 20-30 miles an hour in 15-20 seconds. I can't pull out onto the road unless it's clear traffic in both directions.
Feels almost like it's starting out in second gear instead of first. Yes, it's an automatic. I haven't checked the transmission fluid yet, so it might just need topping off, but I fear there's something more.


To echo what some others have already said, if you think it's starting out in 2nd then the transmission computer governor is most likely bad. I had same thing happen to me about a month ago, car had no power accelerating from a dead stop and would only shift between 2nd and 3rd. I had the computer replaced with the DMCH upgraded unit and haven't had a problem since.

[Nicholas R]

Could it be as simple as the wrong red harness plugged into the bulkhead?

Which one plugs into the red bulkhead connection... Left or Right?http://i.imgur.com/MMfQUV3.jpg

The one with a lot of wires; its wiring for the the transmission governor. The one with few wires is if you have a manual transmission. Just reverse lights and neutral safety switch jumper.

[bfloyd]

Fixed it... Where is the Forrest Gump " I am not a smart man" meme when you need it ?

The automatic transmissions work SO much better when the governor wiring harness is plugged in !

This thing drives like a real car now. I found all of the power my engine was missing.

[DMC5180]

Could it be as simple as the wrong red harness plugged into the bulkhead?

Which one plugs into the red bulkhead connection... Left or Right?http://i.imgur.com/MMfQUV3.jpg

The left plug is the harness for the automatic transmission.

The right plug is the harness that would be used with a manual transmission. It only has the reverse light wires and neutral safety by-pass jumper (yellow/white). That harness should not be in your car if it is an automatic.

[Doogie]

Fixed it... Where is the Forrest Gump " I am not a smart man" meme when you need it ?

The automatic transmissions work SO much better when the governor wiring harness is plugged in !

This thing drives like a real car now. I found all of the power my engine was missing.


I was just about to "+1" on the bad fuel mileage being a Trans computer thing (mine wouldn't shift into 3rd, hence bad mileage). Super cool you figured yours out though. BUT: to go along with Dave's observation on the trans computer... put it in the budget for a new one in the near future...

Glad you got it worked out!

Doogie

[DMC5180]

Your gas mileage should improve now, but you stated at the beginning you had turned the mixture a 1/4 turn right (rich). That is a huge amount. the CO adjustment is very fine adjustment.

[bfloyd]

Yeah , I'm going to back that fuel mixture screw back down a little now that the transmission thing is taken care of.

[OverlandMan]

Yeah , I'm going to back that fuel mixture screw back down a little now that the transmission thing is taken care of.

Glad you got it going there Barry! Sounds like greener pastures have come your way.

[bfloyd]

Will a failing alternator cause random things to go out gradually ?

I park my car in the garage and plug it in to a battery tender when I'm not going to be driving it. Since I thought I had the transmission issue fixed, I drove it tonight for a 30 mile round trip down to my theatre and back . Started off fine, no lights on the dash lit up and everything shifted beautifully . I could feel the transmission shift between all gears. About 5 miles from home, the battery light starts flickering and I notice the volt meter was reading at the mark below the 13 and above the 8. When I left the house it was above 13. Battery light came on steady for a while and the transmission started acting like it wasn't going into 3rd gear. Temperature Guage stayed right at about the 7-8 o'clock position . Temperature here in middle Tennessee was about 62 degrees . No overheating . Fan fail lights started flickering , stayed on for a while then went out.

I made it home but I think I'm going to park this thing until I can get a better grasp on what's going on . Are these symptoms of a dying alternator or something more?

[DMC5180]

Yeah that sounds like a dying alternator. Low voltage can cause weird issues like you are seeing. Do you know which alternator you have? The flickering before it being on steady usually indicates worn out brushes.

[bfloyd]

http://i.imgur.com/DC8R7LS.jpg
Not sure what type it is. Previous owner installed it. I took it out painted it and put it back in . All of the connections are clean and tight .

[DMC5180]

Need to see the back side, but it looks like the Large case Delco 105 amp unit that was commonly used on a mid 80's Cadillac eldorados.
Does it have a 2 wire spade connector on the back?

[Bitsyncmaster]

Sounds like a bad alternator. You defiantly want to get that fixed before any more road trips. You said your fan fail light was flickering. Are you running the OEM fan fail unit? Post a photo of the "blue box" relay in the relay compartment.

[David T]

Sounds like a bad alternator. You defiantly want to get that fixed before any more road trips. You said your fan fail light was flickering. Are you running the OEM fan fail unit? Post a photo of the "blue box" relay in the relay compartment.

Could be as simple as a loose belt or a bad connection but it is also possible the alternator is going bad. Have the battery tested too. If you still have the blue fan fail relay installed you need to get it out and bypass it or get a better relay. You will see as you drive the car more issues will develop. You keep fixing them as they occur and eventually you will see them happening less and less as the car becomes more and more reliable. Did you flush ALL of the fluids? Did you check the date codes on the tires?

[bfloyd]

I've been working on this car pretty much every night since mid-November. All new fuel system (pump, filter, accumulator, fuel lines, etc.) , new hoses everywhere, new water pump, major service kit from DMCH, new vacuum hoses, new battery, new tie rod ends, new tires, etc. Other than the high idle - which I'm pretty sure is related to a binding linkage issue - the engine was finally running fine until this alternator situation.

Going to try to find a locally sourced replacement alternator today. I've got all of the big chain autoparts stores here in town, (Autozone, Napa, Carquest, Advanced Auto, O'Reilly's, etc.

Has anyone used the Proform 100amp GM 1-wire alternator from Advanced Auto Parts? It looks the same - has a 1-wire hookup, and already has a v-belt pulley installed?

Here's the back of mine... or as close to the back of mine as I have a picture of..
http://i.imgur.com/DHK8VTSl.jpg
The photo shows a connector unplugged, but that photo was taken while I was installing it. It is connected.

[Jonathan]

Before you buy a replacement for the alternator, wasn't there something about how the electrical connections can get a little crossed up and cause problems? I don't know the specifics myself, but maybe someone else can chime in to help confirm you have the wires right before spending more money on something that might not be needed?

[DMCMW Dave]

Could it be as simple as the wrong red harness plugged into the bulkhead?

Which one plugs into the red bulkhead connection... Left or Right?http://i.imgur.com/MMfQUV3.jpg

The one with more wires (left in your photo). The other one is for a manual trans car. If you plug in the wrong one, your backup lights will not work and the car will start in gear. You will also be driving in third gear all the time. Which could indeed be your problem.

On later cars the factory cut the excess plug off.

Sorry for the late reply - missed the time line.

[DMC5180]

I've been working on this car pretty much every night since mid-November. All new fuel system (pump, filter, accumulator, fuel lines, etc.) , new hoses everywhere, new water pump, major service kit from DMCH, new vacuum hoses, new battery, new tie rod ends, new tires, etc. Other than the high idle - which I'm pretty sure is related to a binding linkage issue - the engine was finally running fine until this alternator situation.

Going to try to find a locally sourced replacement alternator today. I've got all of the big chain autoparts stores here in town, (Autozone, Napa, Carquest, Advanced Auto, O'Reilly's, etc.

Has anyone used the Proform 100amp GM 1-wire alternator from Advanced Auto Parts? It looks the same - has a 1-wire hookup, and already has a v-belt pulley installed?

Here's the back of mine... or as close to the back of mine as I have a picture of..
http://i.imgur.com/DHK8VTSl.jpg
The photo shows a connector unplugged, but that photo was taken while I was installing it. It is connected.

Yeah that's big GM unit. It was a common replacement unit 10-20 years ago before the CS130 style became the standard replacement upgrade.

I if you want plug n play just replace it with another one of the same type. I'm sure who's ever remanufactured brand you choose will be fine. There all the same GM unit. I would pay the extra money for a lifetime warranty if it is offered. You only need to use it once to more than pay for itself. Just keep the warranty registration in the car where you can find it.

Otherwise I would suggest you upgrade to the DMCH CS130 replacement unit.

[bfloyd]

Had my son do a little testing while I'm stuck here at the office. I've got a battery cut-out switch installed on the car right behind the passenger seat that when turned off disconnects the positive side of the battery. Since the battery essentially is used to "start" the car, and the alternator provides the power to the car once started, I wanted to see if the alternator is actually putting out any juice. I had him start the car let it idle and the battery light on the dash stayed lit. I then had him turn off the battery switch, and as soon as he flipped the switch, the engine shut off. Repeated this scenario several times and got the same results each time. I believe we've found the culprit.

I found a cross-reference here on the forum archives that matched up with my big case GM alternator... a 1984 Cadillac Eldorado. Bolt pattern is the same, connectors the same, and even the pulley is the same. It's worth a shot. I've got a BTTF themed event at my theatre this weekend and having the car down there was a pretty big part of it. Just want to make sure it gets there and back.

[Bitsyncmaster]

FYI

Most everybody will agree it's not a good thing to disconnect the battery when the engine is running. Bad things can happen to the electronics. Most battery disconnect switches come with that warning in the instructions.

[DMC-81]

Hi Barry,

That's very similar to the alternator that my PO fitted presumably to replace the Ducy. (It was very old, so I wound up replacing it.)

The part number on my case is 1101023 , if that helps any. I don't know if it's exactly the same as yours. I see that part number is discontinued, but it still pulls up replacements online.

Good luck,
Dana

[bfloyd]

So I took the old alternator off the car and had it tested at 2 different auto parts stores. Both times it passed with flying colors . When testing it it was REALLY loud... and both places told me that more than likely the bearings were about to go out. I went ahead and bought a new one with a lifetime warranty.

Came home and installed it in the car. Engine fired up and NO battery light on the dash and a solid 13.5 - 14 volts on the gauges. Took it for a spin around town and the volt meter never dropped , battery light never came on, and never did the fan fail lights.

I guess we can add a 100 amp 1984 Cadillac Eldorado alternator to the cross over compatibility list.

Still dealing with the sticky linkage issue, but at least I can get back and forth between the house and the drive-in this weekend without the car dying on the side of the road .

[DMC5180]

It should be noted that the big case GM alternator is not a drop in replacement. It does require a different belt tensioning arm than stock and the 2 way plug harness.

The adjuster bracket assembly you had on the engine (before the stainless adjustable link) was probably bought from Marty Maier of Mid-state delorean club. He made and sold quite a few of those back in the day.

Glad you got it fixed.