Automatic Transmission

[brew]

Well, after 9 years of ownership, the transmission in the D is giving up :sad30:. I'm basically looking for a GOOD used automatic transmission, one off a parts car or something. If you have one or know someone who does please let me know. I am desperate.

Thanks everybody,
Ryan

[hmcelraft]

Have you checked with David Teitelbaum (David T). He did have an auto he rebuilt and tested.

[Nicholas R]

Are you sure a full replacement is required? Are you sure it's not just the governor or at worst the clutch packs? A full transmission replacement seems like somewhat of a rash move without knowing what's wrong. Can you share what the problem is? Hopefully people can help you diagnose it! :wrenchin:

[brew]

Are you sure a full replacement is required? Are you sure it's not just the governor or at worst the clutch packs? A full transmission replacement seems like somewhat of a rash move without knowing what's wrong. Can you share what the problem is? Hopefully people can help you diagnose it! :wrenchin:

The governor was replaced about 5 or 6 years ago right when DMCH came out with their "Digital" improved unit. I'm pretty sure it's the clutch packs, I just wouldn't know the first thing about replacing those. The problem started several years ago, when coasting to a stop in third gear, the car would jerk almost like someone repeatedly kept slamming on the brakes and then letting go, it would not do this if manually shifting it to second gear. Now the most recent thing is that the car falls out of gear like the fluid is low. When driving it, if you start coasting and then press the gas, the engine revs and then the transmission falls in gear. I figured it would just be easier to replace the whole thing but if there's a better option I'd love to know!!!

[Ryan King]

The governor was replaced about 5 or 6 years ago right when DMCH came out with their "Digital" improved unit. I'm pretty sure it's the clutch packs, I just wouldn't know the first thing about replacing those. The problem started several years ago, when coasting to a stop in third gear, the car would jerk almost like someone repeatedly kept slamming on the brakes and then letting go, it would not do this if manually shifting it to second gear. Now the most recent thing is that the car falls out of gear like the fluid is low. When driving it, if you start coasting and then press the gas, the engine revs and then the transmission falls in gear. I figured it would just be easier to replace the whole thing but if there's a better option I'd love to know!!!

That sounds like a symptom of the fluid being low...
Have you checked all your bases? Make SURE you have a digital unit from Houston. The governor will be marked, either with a plate or green marker. Something of the sort. I would, if I were you, first drop the pan. Get a new filter. Change out the fluid...just to be sure its not a bad transmission. I would also buy Josh's silicone gasket...makes for getting into the pan much easier.

[refugeefromcalif]

That sounds like a symptom of the fluid being low...

+1.
My moms 1998 Plymouth Neon did the same thing a while back. I checked fluids for her and Yep, trans fluid didn't even show on the stick. I filled it to the recommended level and her car shifts/drives perfect.
On another note, I had a 1991 Dodge Spirit that all of a sudden the transmission only had 1st gear and reverse. (Fluid level was fine). I dropped the trans pan, installed a new filter, refilled with fluid. That gave me 1st, 2nd and reverse. (The fluid had some brass? residue it it).
Drove it around the block a few miles. Then I changed fluid and filter again. Transmission worked like a charm after that. (Well, it did until my son totaled it 2 years later)...

brew, If I can help in any way let me know.

George

[brew]

Thanks for the help everyone! I checked the fluid level both cold and hot (drove it around town a good bit today) and it was perfect. I didn't check to see if the governor had a green mark or a plate but back when I ordered it, it was literally right when the new digital units were about to come out. I pleaded with James and he actually sold me a prototype unit that was sitting on his desk. I did have to send it back once because a solder joint had come undone but they fixed it for free and sent it back. I assume they tested it first.... but yeah. I just don't think the problems I'm having would be from a bad governor.

Lets see if I can give a little better description.
1. It shifts perfectly into 1,2, and 3rd gear and reverse.
2. When coasting to a stop in 3rd gear, there is a very noticeable jerking sensation like something in the transmission is grabbing then letting go repeatedly. It doesn't do this if I manually shift it into 2nd gear or neutral.
3. Sometimes when doing a hard acceleration from a stop, or accelerating from a coast, the engine will rev before it actually falls into gear.

[Ryan King]

Thanks for the help everyone! I checked the fluid level both cold and hot (drove it around town a good bit today) and it was perfect. I didn't check to see if the governor had a green mark or a plate but back when I ordered it, it was literally right when the new digital units were about to come out. I pleaded with James and he actually sold me a prototype unit that was sitting on his desk. I did have to send it back once because a solder joint had come undone but they fixed it for free and sent it back. I assume they tested it first.... but yeah. I just don't think the problems I'm having would be from a bad governor.

Lets see if I can give a little better description.
1. It shifts perfectly into 1,2, and 3rd gear and reverse.
2. When coasting to a stop in 3rd gear, there is a very noticeable jerking sensation like something in the transmission is grabbing then letting go repeatedly. It doesn't do this if I manually shift it into 2nd gear or neutral.
3. Sometimes when doing a hard acceleration from a stop, or accelerating from a coast, the engine will rev before it actually falls into gear.

I would seriously consider starting with the computer governor. As stated in your post, you've already had problems with it once before. If I were you, I would call James, send this unit back and get a brand new digital computer installed. You came into them when they were brand new. So its possible you've got one thats just not up to "snuff". I would bet James would be fine with you sending it back for an inspection.

[Ron]

3. Sometimes when doing a hard acceleration from a stop, or accelerating from a coast, the engine will rev before it actually falls into gear.When it does this from a coast, does it do it with all gears or only at low speed IE it is in first or ??
When you say, "falls into", do you mean slips and then grabs or pauses then basically grabs normally?

History on what does the fluid look(ed) like?

[brew]

When it does this from a coast, does it do it with all gears or only at low speed IE it is in first or ??

History on what does the fluid look(ed) like?

No, it only does it when in 3rd gear, like pressing the gas after coasting on the highway. It upshifts perfectly, it's just the coming to a stop part where it starts acting funny. The fluid is nice and pinkish red. I put new fluid in about 6 years ago when I replaced the governor.

[Ryan King]

No, it only does it when in 3rd gear, like pressing the gas after coasting on the highway. It upshifts perfectly, it's just the coming to a stop part where it starts acting funny. The fluid is nice and pinkish red. I put new fluid in about 6 years ago when I replaced the governor.

It really sounds like a bad governor to me...im sorry, but it just does. Mine was having erratic shifting too, until I got the governor sorted out. Its nice and smooth now. I'm just saying...I would try that before I bought a new Transmission. But maybe its also the Solenoids are bad? I dont know.

[Ron]

Oops, I edited on you:


When you say, "falls into", do you mean slips and then grabs or pauses then basically grabs normally?


=======

I am with Ryan, and suggest you make the test lights (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?350-Automatic-Transmission-Governor&p=26804&viewfull=1#post26804) and see what the governor is doing, especially if it is not "slipping".

[brew]

It really sounds like a bad governor to me...im sorry, but it just does. Mine was having erratic shifting too, until I got the governor sorted out. Its nice and smooth now. I'm just saying...I would try that before I bought a new Transmission. But maybe its also the Solenoids are bad? I dont know.


Oops, I edited on you:



=======

I am with Ryan, and suggest you make the test lights (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?350-Automatic-Transmission-Governor&p=26804&viewfull=1#post26804) and see what the governor is doing, especially if it is not "slipping".

Oh definitely! I'd rather pay for another governor than a whole transmission. I'll give DMCH a call tomorrow and see what they can do. I'll also look into making the test lights, it would be interesting to see what's going on with it.

[brew]

One more clue to the puzzle... Just went on a short drive, made sure the car shifted to third gear and then pulled the fuse to the governor... The car still did the jerking sensation. It's hard to describe without actually experiencing it, But it feels like someone keeps slamming on the breaks in maybe 1 to 2 second intervals. The jerking sensation gets stronger the warmer the transmission gets.

[refugeefromcalif]

One more clue to the puzzle... Just went on a short drive, made sure the car shifted to third gear and then pulled the fuse to the governor... The car still did the jerking sensation. It's hard to describe without actually experiencing it, But it feels like someone keeps slamming on the breaks in maybe 1 to 2 second intervals. The jerking sensation gets stronger the warmer the transmission gets.

Is the jerking sensation like it's downshifting, then then shifting back up each time? At about what speed are you descending from? How about quick(er) stops from a lower speed?

George

[Ron]

That greatly reduces the odds of it being GC related, to me. I was thinking it might be calling for a down shift when it shouldn't, but it would have to have power for the GC to cause that. Fuse #13 is the only one going to the GC. As a WILD shot in the dark, pull fuse #16 since the wiring from the reverse lights is in the same harness and could be shorted, supplying the power. Check harness for pinches and burns etc., especially near the exhaust on the passenger side....or pull fuse #16 too.

Fingers crossed...

[Jonathan]

Ryan hinted at it a few posts ago, but I'll also suggest getting a new filter.

My symptoms weren't exactly like yours, but a few of the key ones were. My fluid always looked great and was a good colour, smell and level. When I ultimately dropped the pan and took the filter off the car to inspect closer, it was really quite plugged.

I can't promise you this will be your solution, but when you mentioned a replacement governor is cheaper than a new transmission, a new filter will be the least expensive thing to do out of any of those. Get in touch with Michael and order one or two of his filters from him directly or through his eBay site.

Like I said, it could easily be one of these other problems the guys have mentioned, but there is a good chance it is also a function of the filter restricting fluid flow enough to do what you've seen.

[Ron]

+1, especially if it is slipping


It's hard to describe without actually experiencing it...
Can you post a vid?

"When you say, "falls into", do you mean slips and then grabs or pauses then basically grabs normally?"

See Manual G:04:03 for a diagnosis chart

[brew]

I'll drop the pan this weekend if I have time. I cleaned the filter back when I replaced the governor but there is always a chance it wasn't good enough. I'll see if I can get video of the jerking thing it does, and also post pictures of what the pan area looks like. Unfortunately the car stays at my parents for now until I can get a more permanent location.

[hmcelraft]

I had almost the same issues you're having. It seemed like I was always going into second to soon. After a while it started to slip in third. Changed governor - twice, changed fluid AND filter (the last one I had), changed solenoids and put in new fluid. It was even worse slipping in third plus, when I let off the gas at speed in third it seem to have no drag - like it went into neutral. I eventually found Rod Grady who explained my problem and how to "probably" fix it. Basically the trans was shot and needed replaced. There are apparently some weak parts in the trans than can be repaired or replaced but - I eventually had Rob put in a "new" unit- One from a front wheel-drive Renault (I think). So nice to drive now. That was a couple of years ago now. I wouldn't mess with it unless you can find a real guru like Rob to fix it or find an alternative for you.

[hmcelraft]

I had almost the same issues you're having. It seemed like I was always going into second to soon. After a while it started to slip in third. Changed governor - twice, changed fluid AND filter (the last one I had), changed solenoids and put in new fluid. It was even worse slipping in third plus, when I let off the gas at speed in third it seem to have no drag - like it went into neutral. I eventually found Rod Grady who explained my problem and how to "probably" fix it. Basically the trans was shot and needed replaced. There are apparently some weak parts in the trans than can be repaired or replaced but - I eventually had Rob put in a "new" unit- One from a front wheel-drive Renault (I think). So nice to drive now. That was a couple of years ago now. I wouldn't mess with it unless you can find a real guru like Rob to fix it or find an alternative for you.

[SIMid]

I eventually had Rob put in a "new" unit- One from a front wheel-drive Renault (I think). So nice to drive now.

Off topic, but how is this possible? Does some internal part have to be swapped in order for the drive to swap around?

[Ron]

Off topic, but how is this possible? Does some internal part have to be swapped in order for the drive to swap around?By flipping the differential assembly...

Check this out http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2078-Auto-vs-Manual-Delorean&p=93222&viewfull=1#post93222

[SIMid]

By flipping the differential assembly...

Check this out http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2078-Auto-vs-Manual-Delorean&p=93222&viewfull=1#post93222

Wow! Learn't something new today. The link shows a manual box, so I am guessing this could be done with an Auto?

[Ron]

Same differential.

[DMCMW Dave]

Wow! Learn't something new today. The link shows a manual box, so I am guessing this could be done with an Auto?

No, it won't work on an automatic, clearances are not there. Front wheel drive applications use the same automatic part but a different differential assembly.

[Ron]

Wow! Learn't something new today. The link shows a manual box, so I am guessing this could be done with an Auto?Looks like I'm an hour too late to say me too. (Dang Dave ;-)

[SIMid]

No, it won't work on an automatic, clearances are not there. Front wheel drive applications use the same automatic part but a different differential assembly.

What about using the box from a front engine, rear drive Automatic?

I know a lot about cars, just not when it comes down to this type of knowledge.

I heard someone used a Subaru STi box (manual) and swapped the diff around and matched it to a LS1. So what about an Auto from a Subaru WRX then?

[Nicholas R]

What about using the box from a front engine, rear drive Automatic?

I know a lot about cars, just not when it comes down to this type of knowledge.

I heard someone used a Subaru STi box (manual) and swapped the diff around and matched it to a LS1. So what about an Auto from a Subaru WRX then?

A front engine, rear wheel drive automatic is not going to have a transaxle. It will simply have a normal transmission with an input shaft and an output shaft that goes to a separate rear end assembly.

As far as the WRX, I doubt you'll find that info here, though I know there are a lot of kit cars that rely on WRX drivetrains (however most of those cars are still engine-in-front-of transmission). I'm sure somewhere there is a forum dedicated to it. One of my co-workers is building a mid engine rear wheel drive track car with a WRX drivetrain. The transaxle has a special adapter to seal off where the output shaft would typically go to the rear differential, and only the differential inside the transaxle is used to drive the rear wheels.

All that being said, I doubt many manufacturers (Subaru included) are going to design their differentials to be flipped, unless they have applications for both orientations. Porsche transaxles for instance cant be flipped (though I have heard of rare instances of people trying to run the transmission physically upside down).

[SIMid]

A front engine, rear wheel drive automatic is not going to have a transaxle. It will simply have a normal transmission with an input shaft and an output shaft that goes to a separate rear end assembly.

As far as the WRX, I doubt you'll find that info here, though I know there are a lot of kit cars that rely on WRX drivetrains (however most of those cars are still engine-in-front-of transmission). I'm sure somewhere there is a forum dedicated to it. One of my co-workers is building a mid engine rear wheel drive track car with a WRX drivetrain. The transaxle has a special adapter to seal off where the output shaft would typically go to the rear differential, and only the differential inside the transaxle is used to drive the rear wheels.

All that being said, I doubt many manufacturers (Subaru included) are going to design their differentials to be flipped, unless they have applications for both orientations. Porsche transaxles for instance cant be flipped (though I have heard of rare instances of people trying to run the transmission physically upside down).

Thanks Nicholas, looks like I need to do more research then. Just trying to see what options there are to replace the Auto in years to come. Or else, I guess is to either get a Porsche box or convert to a manual box.

[Flicky]

You can find more info in the WRX trans by going to the factory five 818 forums. They mount them mid-engine and not rear, but it might work. Check out GT40, GTM, and sand rail forums for 300+ hp trans like Fortin, Mendiola, Albins/Rancho . I was going to do a custom Jeff Fields unit. It was going to be around 30K. I decided to start my quest for a GT-R instead.

http://www.fortinracing.com/transaxles.html
http://ranchotransaxles.com/albins-transaxles.html


For the OP: I would try a new filter, or just take yours off for a test. +1 on the DPI pan gasket too.

[cpistocco]

You can find more info in the WRX trans by going to the factory five 818 forums. They mount them mid-engine and not rear, but it might work. Check out GT40, GTM, and sand rail forums for 300+ hp trans like Fortin, Mendiola, Albins/Rancho . I was going to do a custom Jeff Fields unit. It was going to be around 30K. I decided to start my quest for a GT-R instead.

http://www.fortinracing.com/transaxles.html
http://ranchotransaxles.com/albins-transaxles.html


For the OP: I would try a new filter, or just take yours off for a test. +1 on the DPI pan gasket too.

A bit off-topic....BUT has anyone got an idea of how many automatic Deloreans are left in the world? I have almost convinced myself that they are some kind of a rarity!! :)

[brew]

Update Time! So I drained the fluid and took the pan off. The fluid still looks good however the magnet on the filter looked horrific. Took the filter off and cleaned the magnet. I think for now I'm going to leave the filter off like DMCH suggested a few years back. I do know about the new filters available and I might get one eventually but for now I'm just going to leave it alone. I took the solenoids off to inspect, they also looked fine but put new o-rings on them anyway. I got the silicone gasket from DPI and it is absolutely wonderful. I wish it was available back when I first did this. Slapped it all back together and went for a drive.... And the results!!!! Well, it's better, it doesn't do the jerky thing in 3rd gear at lower speeds anymore. However I took it on the highway and it still does the jerky thing when coasting to a stop from 70mph. Also, when coasting at speeds around 35mph, when I press the gas it revs and then falls in gear. I can get video if anyone wants it. Torque Converter???



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[Jonathan]

Update Time!

You're right, it doesn't sound like a plugged filter is your problem.

Don't get yourself killed propping your car up on cinder blocks. Use something else.

[alexdmc1]

Hi,
Has the jerk problem when decelerating from 3 nd Gear bene resolve? Because i have this poblem. Thanks

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