Another Beverley Hills Car Club find....

[Chris Burns]

Asking 19k for this one.

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-dmc-delorean-c-4658.htm

[mluder]

This confirms my suspicion...
Everyone at the Beverly Hills Car Club is out of their minds.
That's a sub $10,000 if one ever existed.

Cheers
Steven

[Morpheus]

Wow, that one is in rough shape. Wonder what the VIN is. That flap hood might be worth something, but that car needs a pretty big (read:expensive) restoration.

[Ras12]

Love the externally mounted fuel pump system setup to!

[Dangermouse]

This confirms my suspicion...
Everyone at the Beverly Hills Car Club is out of their minds.
.

Cheers
Steven

Why?

Yes, their project cars are priced high but they seem to sell every one that they can get, and this is at least 10 so far this year. I would speculate that they sell more DeLoreans in a year than any other single location of DMCx

Most seem to go overseas as far as I can tell.

There is at least one guy currently buying them from BHCC and exclusively marketing them overseas

Whether the new owners realize that most of these cars probably don't even run, is debatable.


Edit - and in this case- biggest fuel pressure gauge ever ;)

[Nicholas R]

I dont think it looks that bad. Maybe not $19,000 but its also not sub $10,000. Its got a couple humorous things like those seat covers and the fuel gauge, but most of it is pretty straight forward fixes that dont have to happen immediately. Heck the engine looks pretty clean.

I'm actually intrigued by that inline fuel pump. I've been considering a design like that for several years. I'd MUCH rather have an inline pump that is not in the tank. It would breath better and be cake to troubleshoot if necessary. I'm interested to know what the pickup is like.

Frame could use cleaning but doesn't show anything glaringly bad.

Big question is if it runs. It says "mechanically sound" but thats just some salesman BS. If it runs its definitely a $19,000 car. If it doesn't, it's probably in the mid to low teens.

[Dangermouse]

All of BHCCs cars that might be classed as "project cars", priced in the teens, have the phrase "just removed from storage - mechanically complete" which I always read as "does not run", based on post purchase reports from the new owners of some of their previous cars

[DMCVegas]

This confirms my suspicion...
Everyone at the Beverly Hills Car Club is out of their minds.
That's a sub $10,000 if one ever existed.

Cheers
Steven

Nope. They're just from California.

Californians are some of the stupidest people on the planet when it comes to real estate and cars. They consistently overpay for both and drive the price UP. Now granted I have found that Texans are the exact same way when it comes to pickup trucks, which is why all the old Japanese cars here get shipped out west where they're unreasonably cherished, and the gas-guzzling pickup trucks that are hated for both fuel economy & environmental stigma get shipped here where they fetch top-dollar.

Oregon, Washington, Nevada, Arizona, and Texas are the 5 states where lots of businesses have moved from California and taken residents with them. And wherever they move to, they drive the price of everything up. Which is why local governments go out of their way to attract the businesses, because whatever money lost to tax incentives get made up by the local Tax Assessor who drives EVERYONE'S land values up and recoups the loss.

$20K for this car in almost any other state is laughable. But in California? It'll sell no problem. Or to put it another way...

Take a look at this: http://delorean.com/sold/

The CHEAPEST DeLorean on that page that was sold was $28,750. But it's an automatic. The cheapest 5-Speed like this car went for $28,950.

So do you think that for about $9,000 you could transform this car into something as comparable as those? You know, I'm willing to bet that you could. Of course if you can haggle and get the price down, that gives you an even wider margin of profitability and/or restoration funds which makes it that much easier.

[Mario]

The problem is, once the price gets driven up, it's hard to make it come down while there's still any demand. Yes, you're overpaying, but if you choose not to buy, somebody else will buy it. Then you don't have the car you wanted and the prices are still high.

Unless the California DeLorean market crashes or you somehow organize a California-wide strike against buying DeLoreans at unreasonable prices, there's not a whole lot to be done about it.

[chris williams]

Yes, I'm afraid that whilst there may well be a lot of project cars in the US that are sub 19k there are not in most of the rest of the world. Thats why most of these cars end up coming over to Europe. We simply dont get project cars in the UK for example so cars like this are snapped up by project hungry buyers in the UK. Some are much better than described (some worse) but usually clearly described by BHCC and they work with Uk buyers so everyone is happy!
Chris

[refugeefromcalif]

Nope. They're just from California.

Take a look at this: http://delorean.com/sold/

I (shamefully), admit that my car is on that page.

George

[DMCVegas]

I (shamefully), admit that my car is on that page.

George

Why? I bought my car on consignment from DMC-GG 15 years ago.

[refugeefromcalif]

Why? I bought my car on consignment from DMC-GG 15 years ago.

Probably a Lot cheaper then I paid for mine 3 years ago... :blackeye: (DMC Certified cars aren't cheap)..

I just noticed, your VIN is only 14 from mine. Cool. :thumbup2:

George

[Parzval]

So what do you figure is up with that front clip? It doesn't look hit. Or could it be the doors? The front fender-to-door alignment is horrible, especially on the drivers side... door gap is weird all around on that one. But the passenger looks good on the backside. Makes me think it's the front clip.

[DMCVegas]

Probably a Lot cheaper then I paid for mine 3 years ago... :blackeye: (DMC Certified cars aren't cheap)..

I just noticed, your VIN is only 14 from mine. Cool. :thumbup2:

George

No, they're not cheap. But there is a reason for that, and it is that they're fully sorted out. When I got my car, it was a rolling restoration, and was my only car for almost 5 years. A fine adventure when you're young, but not so much when you're older. You can't walk away when you're frustrated or bored. And you especially can't be distracted or have your work interrupted. There were a couple of times where I stayed up all night wrenching on my car so that I could go to work the next morning. What you save in initial cash you make up for by doing the work yourself. And that's great, but it's a much, much more difficult path to take if you're not up for it.

Those are close VINs! :cool1: I remember in 2005, VIN 6589 took home the Concourse award. That was not only the closest VIN I'd ever seen to my car, but it was also awesome to see a time capsule of what the car looked, and smelled like when it was brand new.

[DMCVegas]

So what do you figure is up with that front clip? It doesn't look hit. Or could it be the doors? The front fender-to-door alignment is horrible, especially on the drivers side... door gap is weird all around on that one. But the passenger looks good on the backside. Makes me think it's the front clip.

It's been bumped in the front, but doesn't look like that much damage. Mostly this appears to be a neglected car that was sat outside in the California sunshine. I can tell because I have the same warpage and sun damage to my own fascia.

As for the body panel alignment, welcome to early 1981 Dunmurry production.

http://memecrunch.com/meme/56D1C/alignment-looks-good-to-me/image.jpg?w=400&c=1

They used to install the fenders first, and then the fascias, and complete the whole entire car EXCEPT for the gullwing doors. Those would go on last like some sort of ceremony in the mind of whoever designed the production line. More about appearance than functionality I suppose where the car would finally "earn it's wings" so that it could leave the factory. The problem is that trying to fit doors to body panels is an impossible task. So you'd have the nasty ill-fitting panels and the doors that would never seal proper so they'd leak and whistle.

Production was eventually revised to not just have the doors completed separately with their internals, but they would be mounted to the underbody FIRST! This allowed the workers to center the doors so that they would seal properly, and they could eliminate the nasty gaps around the windscreen. Then the fenders & quarter panels would be fitted and could be moved around to align with the doors. Finally the fascias were installed and positioned to have a night tight fitment against the body panels and the car would look much, much better. Oh, and it would of course be watertight too. This is one of the many problems with early VINs that you can expect to encounter.

[Azcats]

I inquired about this one at Beverly Hills CC and was informed it runs but the windows, heater, horn, and back lights don't work. Also, the inside drivers side door panel is missing and there appears to be heavy rusting underneath. I'm trying to get one for under $20k that's not a major project. I presume these issues are going to be quite costly?

[davidc89]

I inquired about this one at Beverly Hills CC and was informed it runs but the windows, heater, horn, and back lights don't work. Also, the inside drivers side door panel is missing and there appears to be heavy rusting underneath. I'm trying to get one for under $20k that's not a major project. I presume these issues are going to be quite costly?

Rusty frames can be costly to fix

[88KPH]

I inquired about this one at Beverly Hills CC and was informed it runs but the windows, heater, horn, and back lights don't work. Also, the inside drivers side door panel is missing and there appears to be heavy rusting underneath. I'm trying to get one for under $20k that's not a major project. I presume these issues are going to be quite costly?


Mate, IMO, keep looking.
If that's a 19K car then I need to re-assess my insurance agreed value.
You may be better spending alittle more, say 26/28k, and get a road registered runner.
It will be far more enjoyable for you & will probably be cheaper in the long run. Most definitely over that car anyway.

[Azcats]

Mate, IMO, keep looking.
If that's a 19K car then I need to re-assess my insurance agreed value.
You may be better spending alittle more, say 26/28k, and get a road registered runner.
It will be far more enjoyable for you & will probably be cheaper in the long run. Most definitely over that car anyway.

Thanks! Yeah I'm gonna keep looking but still hoping for something under $20k. Don't mind a little work as it will be a second car that I won't use much.

Thanks again for the feedback!

[Chris Burns]

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1982-dmc-delorean-c-4878.htm

[DMCVegas]

"Mechanically sound." Yeah, but probably not functional with that Cold Start Valve being left unplugged. I wonder if perhaps they just meant, "Yeah, it's mechanical, and it makes some sounds when you try to make it work..."

Then there is that chassis...

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/893/626/5ae.jpg

[Dangermouse]

With BHCC, I always read "mechanically sound" to mean "all parts present and correct". None of their ads say "drives great", etc. mainly because most of them don't.

[Jonathan]

Fuel sender
Headliners
Rub strips front right quarter
Seat belt bolt covers x2
A nice ciabatta bun, some lettuce and a slice of ham to go with that Swiss Cheese frame

Oh, and I think there is a little more room on the outside of the rear wheels to fit some more balancing weights. Doesn't look like they quite got enough on there to go all the way around.

Don't know how much I would want my name on previous parts orders getting posted online with the ad, but that's just me maybe.

...did automatics come with the "clutch fluid sticker" above the rubber cover next to the gas cap? I'd have thought the factory would have not stuck those on for auto trans cars.

[Chris Burns]

Beverley Hills Car Club is notorious for having clunkers, but this one seems ok. Not perfect, but ok.

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-dmc-delorean-c-4972.htm

[Jonathan]

Beverley Hills Car Club is notorious for having clunkers, but this one seems ok. Not perfect, but ok.

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-dmc-delorean-c-4972.htm

I agree with you Chris. That car does look ok. Surprising a little too considering their other cars. For a painted D, $18k isn't too bad of a price either from what you can see in the pics. Wonder what a drive test, or an idle test would show?

[louielouie2000]

Beverley Hills Car Club is notorious for having clunkers, but this one seems ok. Not perfect, but ok.

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-dmc-delorean-c-4972.htm

While I really dislike painted DeLoreans, I have an odd affinity for red ones. I guess I just like the way red really makes the lines of the car pop, and emphasizes the sporty styling. However, I can't say I'm a fan of that particular hue of red- it's stereotypical spray paint red.

[Chris Burns]

This one started out as a white DMC and the paint was stripped off half way through. What a mess!!

Asking 12 grand.

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-dmc-delorean-c-5183.htm

[Rich_NYS]

Wow, that one is pretty rough!

[Citizen]

I noticed the BHCC never seem to want to reveal the VINs of DeLoreans they sell. I noticed because I always try to record the painted ones. Now, there is a red one and a white one that I am missing because I can't identify them by VIN.

...

[louielouie2000]

I think this one takes the cake as the roughest DeLorean BHCC has offered for sale!

[DMCVegas]

How is it possible that their cars are just getting worse and worse? I feel like if they ever did videos of their vehicles, Sarah McLachlan would be playing in the background.

Oh, and for the record, this is the guy who is responsible for all of these:

http://girlsdrivefasttoo.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Alex-Manos-headhsot.jpg

[Mark D]

At first i was hard for me to understand why someone would stop stripping a car half way through... but then I noticed both the hood and left front fender look like replacements (not white panels that were stripped). I'd have to guess that whoever was stripping the paint uncovered some damage on those two panels and determined they couldn't be fixed. So after replacing the two most expensive panels on the car maybe the guy figured it would be easier to cut his losses than continue to strip off paint and find more damage.

[Chris Burns]

Ok, this one has a dented right front fender and a rusty front end on the frame. Very very dirty underneath and the interior is a wreck.

Asking 15 grand.

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorian-dmc-c-5186.htm

[burch]

Ok, this one has a dented right front fender and a rusty front end on the frame. Very very dirty underneath and the interior is a wreck.

Asking 15 grand.

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorian-dmc-c-5186.htm

YIKES. That poor, awesome side stripe though...

[Nicholas R]

Ok, this one has a dented right front fender and a rusty front end on the frame. Very very dirty underneath and the interior is a wreck.

Asking 15 grand.

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorian-dmc-c-5186.htm

I dont thinkthat I'd call that interior "a wreck". I mean, its complete, even the missing door panel is shown by itself in the photos. Its got signs of 35 years of age, what with the worn seat and cracked dash and binnacle, but to call it a wreck? Seats, dashes, and binnacles are practically wear items at this age. We've seen cars where it looked like a bear got trapped inside and tried to fight its way out; those interiors were a wreck.

That front fender is rough though. Based on this photo, I think it's more than just dented; it looks like the stainless is actually cracked and torn.

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/galleria_images/5186/5186_p20_l.jpg

[burch]

That front fender is rough though. Based on this photo, I think it's more than just dented; it looks like the stainless is actually cracked and torn.


Actually from that angle, you can almost see the outline of a trailer hitch that backed into it, can't you?

[88KPH]

Or he drove into, that front corner is a nightmare to judge.

[Chris Burns]

82 automatic for sale. Black stripe package, rust on frame.

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1982-delorean-delorean-c-4878.htm

[Chris Burns]

Decent frame on this one.

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1982-delorean-dmc-c-5575.htm

[Jonathan]

Decent frame on this one.

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1982-delorean-dmc-c-5575.htm

Based on what you can see, it'd put the VIN somewhere between 2711 and 3200, yes? August '81?

[Dangermouse]

That's a good range for me too. (It looks just like my car, spec-wise)

Though obviously they have it listed as an 82, which could mean anything.

[Jonathan]

That's a good range for me too. (It looks just like my car, spec-wise)

I made this spreadsheet not long ago.

Basically just to try and narrow down the VIN range based on what you could see in photos. It isn't too terribly sophisticated, just delete the "X" in the yellow shaded cells for the feature you see. Then your likely VIN range is whatever columns all overlap.

I'd like to get it more specific, but there wasn't enough I found from the "VIN chronology" changes to do so. If you see other aspects of the cars that point to a certain range, please mention them and I'll add it to the file.

40971

[Dangermouse]

I made this spreadsheet not long ago.

Basically just to try and narrow down the VIN range based on what you could see in photos. It isn't too terribly sophisticated, just delete the "X" in the yellow shaded cells for the feature you see. Then your likely VIN range is whatever columns all overlap.


40971

I love this idea, though I think my copy must be faulty. Should something happen automatically to columns K-AF when I delete the X, or should I manually shade them in?

[Jonathan]

I love this idea, though I think my copy must be faulty. Should something happen automatically to columns K-AF when I delete the X, or should I manually shade them in?

There is supposed to be come conditional formatting behind the scenes for those cells. Maybe it gets disabled when posted online (although the copy I clicked on in this post came up and worked).

Here's a screen grab of what it's meant to look like:

40972

[Dangermouse]

Nope, there is nothing in those fields.

PM sent with email address

[refugeefromcalif]

Though obviously they have it listed as an 82, which could mean anything.

I'd guess '81 also. I can't imagine an '82 without fixed door pulls.

George

[Chris Burns]

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1983-delorean-dmc-c-5828.htm


http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorean-dmc-c-5808.htm

[Riley88]

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1983-delorean-dmc-c-5828.htm


http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorean-dmc-c-5808.htm

you have got to be kidding me! They actually have 2 nice ones on there? That arent trashed? WHHHHAAAATTT! This is new

[louielouie2000]

An original dealer wide-striped 1983 with two-tone interior? Of course it has to surface when I'm not quite ready to buy! :facepalm:

[Mark D]

One thing I noticed about the 1981 (first link) is that it has one later style silver wheel and three early style grey wheels. I wonder if there is some kind of accident history that the rim needed to be swapped out?

The 1983 (second link) has a "MAROON" dealer sticker on the back of it which reminded me of this thread from a while back where the guy did a full restoration right down to the same "MAROON" dealership label on the rear fascia.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?6452-5992-Trip-to-Greece-Restoration-and-Speculations&p=177817&viewfull=1#post177817

[joshcuk]

This has peaked my interest (but maybe I'm crazy):

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorean-dmc-c-6263.htm

I got in touch with them, they said it's a non-runner, no working electrics, missing fuel distributor, last used about 10-20 years ago, no service history, 2 previous owners, it's a South Carolina car.

Someone more experienced than myself with DeLoreans here probably has some thoughts on it?

[delgato]

[QUOTE=joshcuk;209143]This has peaked my interest (but maybe I'm crazy):

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorean-dmc-c-6263.htm

I got in touch with them, they said it's a non-runner, no working electrics, missing fuel distributor, last used about 10-20 years ago, no service history, 2 previous owners, it's a South Carolina car.

Someone more experienced than myself with DeLoreans here probably has some thoughts on it?[/QUOTE

WOWZERS

There is a massive section of the front frame that is straight up missing. I am amazed that the front suspension is actually holding up that car.

The origanal frame I had was not even that bad.

[louielouie2000]

This has peaked my interest (but maybe I'm crazy):

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorean-dmc-c-6263.htm

I got in touch with them, they said it's a non-runner, no working electrics, missing fuel distributor, last used about 10-20 years ago, no service history, 2 previous owners, it's a South Carolina car.

Someone more experienced than myself with DeLoreans here probably has some thoughts on it?

That car has an extremely rotten frame on top of being a non-runner, having severe cosmetic issues, and many missing or incorrect parts. If a monumental project is what you're looking for, this is it. I personally wouldn't even pay $5,000 for this car, and that's being charitable.

[joshcuk]

That car has an extremely rotten frame on top of being a non-runner, having severe cosmetic issues, and many missing or incorrect parts. If a monumental project is what you're looking for, this is it. I personally wouldn't even pay $5,000 for this car, and that's being charitable.

To both of you - thanks for taking a look, I'm very grateful that you know what you're looking at.

I did think the chassis looked wrecked but I wasn't aware it was this bad, I will leave this one and keep searching for something better.

[DMCVegas]

This car is a complete mess. I am dead serious when I say that if I was to trailer it home, I would drill new holes in the chassis to run chains through. Aft of the fuel tank, and then wrapping them around the shock towers. Because other than the 2 front chassis bolts, there is barely any metal at all holding the front suspension in place. I'm genuinely surprised the passenger front suspension has not yet collapsed.

This is the kind of car someone that wants to build a fresh car from the entire ground-up would want. It needs a new chassis, new suspension, cooling system, all new electrics, tons of of cosmetic work, and we still don't know the condition of the drivetrain. $5K is all I'd be willing to pay for this car too, because it's going to need about another $30K worth of work.

[Dangermouse]

This one was only a grand more and it is a world apart

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1982-delorean-dmc-c-6523.htm

it even has the mighty auto box :)

[vwdmc16]

Damn that is a bad frame! $5k tops! They have had much more presentable cars for thousands less last year.

[Patrick C]

This is an engine that Ed Uding was just working on from a Beverly Hills Car Club car. Be careful.

[DMCVegas]

This is an engine that Ed Uding was just working on from a Beverly Hills Car Club car. Be careful.

See now, that right there is the problem with people saying "Ran when parked". Just because it ran doesn't mean that it ran very well, and wasn't suffering from some sort of internal damage. And it certainly isn't going to get better with age.

[Dangermouse]

Nor that it was subsequently submerged in a flood.

[joshcuk]

I got in touch with DMC about that particular car and DMC Texas replied with "Run, run away fast" (actual words) and a valuation of $3,000 to $5,000. I've passed this info along to Beverley Hills Car Club so it will be interesting to see what they say, I wonder if they truly realise how bad the condition of that car is and how much they've overvalued it?

[Dangermouse]

"Buyer Beware" is very applicable here.

BHCC do seem to get some rust-buckets don't they, but to be fair to them, they don't try and hide the fact. Unlike most dealers, they stick the car on a lift and photograph every square inch of it.

Now, their pricing can be "over optimistic", but I understand they can be flexible.

Several people in the UK have bought cars from them in the mid-teens and been very pleased with their purchase (of course that was last year when the exchange rate was 1.5)

[David T]

If you are going to buy any of those "distressed" cars be prepared for surprises. They could be missing odd parts, they could have been flooded, burned, or crashed. It is entirely the responsibility of the buyer to determine the condition of the car and understand just exactly what he is buying. Although the seller is not supposed to lie about a car's condition, the seller may not disclose everything. The seller may truthfully not know a car was flooded but who knows? Buyer beware. To buy a car in poor condition, especially if it wont operate, you really need to do a personal, up close inspection and really know what you are looking for and at. You must have an appreciation of what parts will cost so you can figure if you are buying a bargain or a money pit.

[joshcuk]

Thanks guys, all good points. BHCC's salesman John was very helpful on the phone and answered all my questions, and as you say the photos do very clearly show the condition of the car, it's just a shame that particular one doesn't have the price tag to match. I'll keep hunting. :)

[Chris Burns]

They have had this red one for sale for awhile. Salvage title is what's really holding up the sale I imagine.

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorean-dmc-12-c-6394.htm

[SamHill]

They have had this red one for sale for awhile. Salvage title is what's really holding up the sale I imagine.

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorean-dmc-12-c-6394.htm


Is their stock number also the real VIN?

[louielouie2000]

They have had this red one for sale for awhile. Salvage title is what's really holding up the sale I imagine.

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorean-dmc-12-c-6394.htm

Yeah, the fact that the driver's door and quarter panel aren't even close to matching the paint color of the front fender is a pretty good indicatior of the quality of collision repair this car received. The removal of the interior door trim points to the repair being problematic or incomplete, too. Still, it's a much better value than the other DeLorean they have right now, though. :dead:

[DMCVegas]

Is their stock number also the real VIN?

Couldn't be. Not in this car's case. It has the early throttle spool, A/C Panel, and shifter assembly. You might have someone swap a hood, sure. But no one swaps out that shifter.

This car looks like it's possibly been in a front-end collision. Down on the front of the chassis, you can see where new crumple tubes were cut in and welded into place. The underbody has also been hacked up right above the fuel pump. I cannot imagine for the life of my WHY someone did this. It could be from possible collision repair with grafting on a new front section. It might also be from some herb that had a busted orifice tube and thought it's be easier to hacksaw the car than put it onto jackstands to remove the front right wheel for access.

I'm a bit concerned with the photos though. This is a car you'd want to inspect in person to check the front chassis welding quality, and the underbody up front. Next would be the rear chassis to ensure the vehicle hasn't been in a rear-end collision. You can normally look down into the engine compartment to tell. The shots needed to see this are all missing.

Now what I love personally is what has to be hands down the worst paint job I've ever seen on a DeLorean. Worse than the Florida rattle can flat black with green splotches from like 14 years ago.

They painted over the door locks.
The fender was scratched, so they painted it and didn't bother to color match, nor blend. Just mask it off and paint away.
The bumper on the rear fascia was gouged by something and partially ripped off. So they literally just painted over the foam impact absorber underneath. They even left the hole.

If I was a betting man, I'd say that this car probably had a cheap respray at sometime in the past, and then had a little more damage since then that went through the world's worst touch-up.

Now it is just speculation about an accident up front at this point. It is a possibility that given the car's lack of a Front End Recall kit, it may just have hit a curb or severe dip and bent the crumple tubes. Which in turn needed to be replaced. From there, it may have just been hacked away at by incompetent mechanics responsible for other damage. But the big thing here is to ask WHY it has that salvage title, and then inspect the car in person.

Depending upon the damage and reason for salvage, I'd go $5K or $6K on this car.

[David T]

A car wins a salvage title when it is totaled by an insurance company, they take it back, and auction it off. Some common reasons for totaling a car include fire, flood, and accident. As I said in a previous post when buying a distressed car such as this you are best served by having it inspected by someone who knows what they are looking at. A car with a salvage title must be purchased figuring you are buying a parts car because in many States it can be difficult-to-impossible to get the title cleaned up. Without a clean title you can never register the car and drive it on public roads. In effect you have a pile of parts that *looks* like a car but is legally NOT a car. BHCC will buy anything, clean it up and try to resell it. It is entirely up to the buyer to determine if what you are buying is worth what they are asking for it. $5-6K may be a generous offer for this particular fine example of a Delorean.

[Dangermouse]

Is their stock number also the real VIN?

Unfortunately it isn't.

BHCC never list the VIN, unless it ends up on ebay. Don't know why; they are always pretty honest about taking photos of everything else.

[DMCVegas]

Very true on all counts. Buying a Salvage Title is a good amount of work once restored to get it re-branded as a Rebuilt Title for road registration.

$5K-$6K is indeed generous, yes. But a car like this doesn't have to be just for parts. It could be rebuilt into a very nice customized show car. And would be the perfect candidate to do so. No worries about ruining the vehicle at this point given that damn near anything you do would be an improvement. But that price is also contengent upon a sound chassis. If the rear is bent, or there is still some other sort of collision damage, I'd honestly drop it down to about $2,500 to $3K. Which yes, would still be generous.

The asking price however is purely insane.

[Chris Burns]

A fire damaged car!!

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorean-dmc-c-6434.htm

[vwdmc16]

That car wasnt that bad before, Somebody had quite a good extinguisher to get that out before it was out of control. But $14.5k!!!!!!! fuck right off.

[MML]

I wonder what the cause was.

[louielouie2000]

Yowza. For a short while they had a few pretty solid cars for very reasonable asking prices. Now they just seem to be back to dealing bottom of the barrel DeLoreans.

[Dangermouse]

That car wasnt that bad before, Somebody had quite a good extinguisher to get that out before it was out of control. But $14.5k!!!!!!! fuck right off.

You know the car, Clint?

[vwdmc16]

No I don't but looking at the interior, body panels and how decently clean it was, I'd say it was a good solid car. Just a bit of minor frame rust starting and needed some updates like the fuel hoses obviously. Before the fire it was probably a nice $15k-18k car IMO.

[DMCVegas]

Another fine DeLorean for sale by Beverly Hillbillies Car Club.

This is worse than a wrecked car. On a wrecked one, you could just repair the frame if need be, and graft in a replacement section of underbody. Hell, even if you had to replace both outright, you'd still only need to have repaired the directly affected area.

But fire damage? Never mind the heat damage to the chassis you can't see, now you have a smoke-damaged interior with an eternal funk you can't get rid of. You'd have to strip it all out down to the blower motor box and pulling the seat skins off to clean everything, and replace what you can't see.

[SamHill]

A lil' Windex, rubbing compound and febreeze fixes that entire car.

But seriously, somebody's buying these damn things and they do seem to know how to find 'em. They must have some sort of salvage op connection?

[louielouie2000]

A lil' Windex, rubbing compound and febreeze fixes that entire car.

But seriously, somebody's buying these damn things and they do seem to know how to find 'em. They must have some sort of salvage op connection?

As far as who purchases these DeLoreans from BHCC, I've noticed quite a few pop up overseas on Instagram. Just this past week the red one they had recently with the spinner center caps showed up in the Netherlands:

https://instagram.com/p/BNz3qzzhpHH/

It would be interesting to know just how they find so many terrible DeLoreans to resell. I think your theory on salvage op connections makes a lot of sense. I bet owners of poor condition cars have also noticed the high volume of DeLoreans they sell, and reach out to BHCC themselves as well.

In any case, BHCC definitely serves a purpose in the grand scheme of things. Overseas buyers snatch up the very worst DeLoreans most Americans don't deem financially viable to restore, so these cars end up getting second lives. In that respect, I'm glad BHCC is around and sources these salvage-grade cars.

[Delorean Industries]

Isn't it :)

[Dangermouse]

My working theory is that they have got a copy of the DOA owners list from 1988 and are calling round all the California owners who parked them in the late 80s when repair was tough.


Perhaps POs widows are happy to get a card in the mail from BHCC.

All the sub $20k cars are non runners.

[sdg3205]

As far as who purchases these DeLoreans from BHCC, I've noticed quite a few pop up overseas on Instagram. Just this past week the red one they had recently with the spinner center caps showed up in the Netherlands:

https://instagram.com/p/BNz3qzzhpHH/

It would be interesting to know just how they find so many terrible DeLoreans to resell. I think your theory on salvage op connections makes a lot of sense. I bet owners of poor condition cars have also noticed the high volume of DeLoreans they sell, and reach out to BHCC themselves as well.

In any case, BHCC definitely serves a purpose in the grand scheme of things. Overseas buyers snatch up the very worst DeLoreans most Americans don't deem financially viable to restore, so these cars end up getting second lives. In that respect, I'm glad BHCC is around and sources these salvage-grade cars.

I thought this car looked familiar!

Here is a clipping in my old pre-internet delorean scrap book. DuPont registry, sometime in the mid 90's.

[DMCVegas]

My working theory is that they have got a copy of the DOA owners list from 1988 and are calling round all the California owners who parked them in the late 80s when repair was tough.


Perhaps POs widows are happy to get a card in the mail from BHCC.

All the sub $20k cars are non runners.

Just to nip this in the bud before a rumor gets out of hand, the DOA does NOT share our member lists of current and/or past members with anyone. So lets clear that up right now.

Having said that, your theory about people with non-runners is most likely quite correct to a great extent. California has some VERY strict laws when it comes to registering inoperable vehicles. Unless you take advantage of the 90 day grace period in which to register your vehicle as non-operational, the penalty is 160% of your missed registration fees for at least the first two years (possibly every missed year thereafter as well for all fees missed), and then another $200 in late fees as well. It does wonders to keep older vehicles off the road by making them uneconomical to register. But that is also why you'll see lots of older "ran when parked" vehicles that have been sitting for years get sold out of state, or get parted out on eBay.

I'd agree too that BHCC is probably prowling Copart for totaled vehicles from Insurance companies. For certain makes like DeLoreans, they've probably got some good leads on buyers already, like they do for other models. But I'd also say they're picking up California cars that are just too uneconomical to register for the prior owners. But they can get shipped out of state, or even overseas where the new owners won't have to worry about any of that.

Now personally, I think that BHCC's prices on the kinds of cars we've seen from them are goddamed insane. Who knows though what they might just haggle down to. But it's a fantastic business model. Rather than trying to sell only concourse cars, these guys are wholesaling project cars. Aside from the prices, what they're doing is a great idea that benefits each marque they sell from.

[Dangermouse]

Certainly wasn't implying that the DOA were feeding BHCC owner data. Simply that they may have gotten hold of a list. Perhaps the first car they bought had an owners list in the glove box.

Alternatively, they might have some way of accessing the state's "non-operational car" database, either through an "insider" or perhaps through some sort of "open records" request. Which actually makes more sense when you look at the wide range of other marques they sell, many in non-runner condition.

EDIT - worth noting that they listed, and presumably sold, at least 16 cars this year, possibly more than some DMCx locations.

[David T]

BHCC also gives finder's fees for dead cars. There are "scouts", people who troll neighborhoods looking in driveways and garages looking for vehicles. I know of one here on the east coast that was "found" by a scout for BHCC and they shipped it across the country so it is not specific to CA. They scour the whole country. They will take a mess that they find for $5K, clean it up, take pictures, and put a price of $15K on it. With the finder's fee, the transportation, listing fees and advertising, and the cleaning they may have spent $2K. The rest is profit. Maybe this market won't pay that but as we see overseas buyers can and will. Gull Wing Motors in NY also does it but not as aggressively.

[Bob635]

Did anyone notice the reinforcement plate under the rear frame? It is ribbed. Is this something from early cars? I like the idea because I have seen dented later smooth frame
that have bent when people jack up the car from this surface.

Bob


Asking 19k for this one.

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-dmc-delorean-c-4658.htm

[DMCVegas]

Certainly wasn't implying that the DOA were feeding BHCC owner data.

I know exactly what you mean, no worries. The disclaimer wasn't for you, but rather for anyone that might come in and skim this thread, see that, and not actually understand what you meant. That's all.

[Delorean Industries]

Wait the doa list isn't to be used as a vendor soliciting tool?

[Dangermouse]

There are "scouts", people who troll neighborhoods looking in driveways and garages looking for vehicles.

Damn, so while I am buying a double pack of Thin Mints, they are reporting back on the condition of my cars. The clever minxes.


:hihi2:

[Delorean Industries]

You are right David T. Chris Burns is on BHCC payroll from my understanding. Drives around to addresses pulled from various sources including the DOA and knocks on doors.

[David T]

You are right David T. Chris Burns is on BHCC payroll from my understanding. Drives around to addresses pulled from various sources including the DOA and knocks on doors.


The scouts get leads from various sources. Old MV records, talking to people at car shows, gas stations, repair shops, etc. Some just drive around peeking into garages, under covers and tarps, whatever it takes. They aren't just looking for Deloreans. I know when I go to car shows and cruise nights sometimes people come up to me and tell me about one in someone's back yard, behind a gas station, under a tree, you name it! I know of about a dozen of them in the Tri-State area just melting into the ground. Either the owner thinks it is worth too much or they won't even talk about selling it, it is a family heirloom. They can't believe it is hardly worth $5K or less! Usually takes someone dying or having to move to get them to sell. Not too long ago I brokered a sale of 4 of them. 2 were dead in the backyard, 1 was dismantled and in the shed and basement, and a 4th dead in the garage. One became Ken K's raffle car! I knew about them for years but the owner wasn't ready to sell. Finally his health caused him to decide to sell them all but they all had to go at once. Not too many buyers for that big a sale but I found one. You have to be persistent. A few years back Rob Grady bought a boatload of parts and a few cars from a guy in Connecticut. It took 4 guys 2 days to load it all up and drag it out to Long Island in the middle of the winter! And Rob still had to have some of the cars flat-bedded. Barn finds are out there to be found. Just be prepared to essentially rebuild every system of the car and fix all of the cosmetic damage. Every year parts get more and more expensive too. And the barn finds get worse and worse. Rotten frames are the worst. Unfortunately if the car is outside on dirt for a long time the frame is usually very bad. Then there is the animal damage to contend with. Before you can even start you have to de-contaminate the car!

[Rich_NYS]

16913 was for sale on eBay near where I live (in upstate NY,) I believe BHCC contacted the owner after the auction ended without the reserve being met.

I think they had it listed for ~22K. My best guess is they paid 15K-17K for it.

It needed work, but was a moderately-serviced runner.

[powerline84]

they contacted the widow and son in law of the car I just bought a day before I bought it. Said they would be contacting them to work out price but would buy it, then I showed up the next day and bought it so they never had the opportunity. Whats funny is the seller to me was like some body from Beverly hills called me yesterday lol I was like were they Beverly hills car club...they were like yes thats it. You gotta give it to them, they are really good at finding cars. Glad I snaked mine up before they had the opportunity.

[HenningW]

stock #07494 (http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorean-dmc-12-c-6394.htm) = VIN 2211
stock #07519 (http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorean-dmc-c-6434.htm) = VIN 4838
stock #07832 (http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1982-delorean-dmc-12-c-6775.htm) = VIN 10524

How do I know? Because I emailed and asked. Carfax for the above was also provided and is attached.

484594846048461

[David T]

stock #07494 (http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorean-dmc-12-c-6394.htm) = VIN 2211
stock #07519 (http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorean-dmc-c-6434.htm) = VIN 4838
stock #07832 (http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1982-delorean-dmc-12-c-6775.htm) = VIN 10524

How do I know? Because I emailed and asked. Carfax for the above was also provided and is attached.

484594846048461

BHCC will buy a car anywhere in the US and ship it to CA. By the time they add the shipping, finder's fees, and profit it makes no sense for someone on the East Coast to pay their price and have it shipped. There are enough Deloreans on the East coast that it doesn't pay. To my knowledge BHCC only does cosmetic type work. What you see is what you get. For the less expensive ones expect to have to do a lot of work on the car. While they do try to provide the potential buyers with a lot of pictures and info, nothing can replace having the car inspected by someone who knows what they are looking at.

[Dangermouse]

stock #07494 (http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorean-dmc-12-c-6394.htm) = VIN 2211
stock #07519 (http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorean-dmc-c-6434.htm) = VIN 4838
stock #07832 (http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1982-delorean-dmc-12-c-6775.htm) = VIN 10524

How do I know? Because I emailed and asked. Carfax for the above was also provided and is attached.

484594846048461

Thanks, that is fascinating.

particularly the carfax for 02211 - Somehow it has a branded salvage title back in November 1981 :umm:

[SamHill]

stock #07494 (http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorean-dmc-12-c-6394.htm) = VIN 2211
stock #07519 (http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorean-dmc-c-6434.htm) = VIN 4838
stock #07832 (http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1982-delorean-dmc-12-c-6775.htm) = VIN 10524

How do I know? Because I emailed and asked. Carfax for the above was also provided and is attached.

484594846048461


Thanks for sharing the info.

[Domi]

Thanks for sharing the info.

+1 :yesss:

[Dangermouse]

10524 has escaped

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=48595&d=1485520511

photo courtesy of Alex Tietz on FB

[Chris Burns]

http://www.deloreandirectory.com/census/data/detail/?st=1503783951.4748

[Andrew]

The owner of this vehicle should look into the procedure in Florida for obtaining a rebuilt title. Terms, costs and inspection requirements differ depending on the State, but by no means should an otherwise restorable, mostly complete car be parted out simply because of a title status.

[Dangermouse]

The original BHCC ad stated that the car had a "salvage" title. Is that dramatically different from the "dismantled" title the new owner is complaining about?

is "Dismantled" even a valid legal term?

[Mike0173]

That was me, can't believe anyone actually saw my post on the directory site. Ive learned this all in the past week or so and could really use some help if anyone has been in this situation before.
The term dismantle legally means that the owner turned over his registration and title, and the car was supposed to have been junked/destroyed/sold for parts. I don't think it should have been sold as a "highly desireable project car." And legally, I don't think they should have sold it at all.
Its super convoluted trying to find laws between 3 different states and what any of it means. Apparently there's a national database that tracks these salvage vehicles now. So, it's not as easy as it once was to sort of slip things in because it was worded oddly in another state. But, in Florida, my only option is an ASPT car( assembled from parts), I will never be able to title/register this car under its original vin...in any state. Or I can try and sell it outside the US.

I don't know why the original title was ever salvaged or considered dismantled. I've tried getting in touch with the owner on the title, but he passed a few years ago. The guy in between apparently has Parkinson's disease and just had a stroke, so he can't help much either.

[David T]

While it may be the seller did not fully disclose, the buyer also has a duty to determine just what he is buying. The buyer should have seen the Title and realized it was not "clean" BEFORE buying the car. If he still wanted to go through with the deal the buyer should have ascertained the exact status of it in regards to making the car go again. It will be difficult, if not impossible now to go back to the seller. The buyer's best option is to go the DMV in his State and inquire as to what procedure there is (if any) to get the car back on the road. There are also 3rd parties that offer to do this, often in a nearby State, with laxer rules. In the meantime the buyer should not spend any money or time on the car till he knows what can be done. I would hope the buyer has a legitimate Bill of Sale so he can prove legal ownership. If not, the car may be taken from him and returned to the last lawful owner. If that happens he may then have recourse to the seller. These situations never turn out well and often cost a lot to resolve. It also is often complicated by the different rules in different States. This is one area where the term "Buyer Beware" is so true. What you have really bought is a pile of parts that looks like a car. That piece of paper (the Title) is SO important!

[Michael]

There has never been a car easier to "re vin" than a DeLorean. There are only 2 places the vin is stamped, both easily changed as the frame numbers, engine numbers, etc. were never correlated with the actual vin.
All you need to do is buy a heap that has an intact title and vin plates (both of them) and swap them out. Might be a little more expensive than getting your title repaired but a damn sight easier and quicker and no black marks on your title.

You didn't hear that from me.

[DMCVegas]

There has never been a car easier to "re vin" than a DeLorean.

That ain't no lie.

http://touchngo.com/ap/html/ap-1178.htm

I'll get back to that case in a moment here.

Rules slightly vary from state to state, as do especially HOW the states execute these rules. But here is the general, over all rule of thumb for vehicle titles:

Salvage Title
This is where things get confusing because rules/brandings vary from state to state. First, a Salvage Title can NOT be used to register a vehicle! A salvage title means that a vehicle has been in a major accident, is a loss, and usually also meets the following criteria:

Flood Damaged.
Fire Damaged.
65% or more of the vehicle is damaged.


As stated, Salvage means that the vehicle has encountered such catastrophic damage that it cannot be safely driven on the street. Hence why the vehicle cannot be registered.

Again, it's a rule of thumb, and intricacies can vary by state. But that is the short & long of it. HOWEVER, in some states such as Nevada, if the vehicle is over 10 years old, it can get an exemption to avoid a Salvage title which results in future branding. Speaking of which...

Rebuilt Title/Branding
In many cases, it is possible to repair a Salvage Vehicle to get it back onto the road. An independent garage can utilize cheaper used parts and less expensive labor to more affordably repair a vehicle than an insurance company. Once repaired the vehicle is inspected by the state. If the vehicle is declared safe, the Salvage Title will then be exchanged back to a regular Vehicle Title to allow said vehicle to be registered.

The only catch is that the Title gets a branding on it that indicates the vehicle is "Rebuilt". Which may mean the full word "Rebuilt", or it may simply be an "R", or could even be some other weird combination of letters/numbers that isn't decipherable by another state. That's where "Title Washing" comes into play. Take a rebuilt title, register the vehicle in another state that doesn't recognize the weird code and issues a clean title without the branding, and you've washed the car of it's previous history. Likewise some people have done this with kit cars to get the make/model changed as well. Same VIN, but that's how title goes from saying Pontiac Fiero to becoming a Ferrari 308.

Also, as stated some older vehicles may get an exemption to Salvage titles if they're only missing a few pieces and will be restored. That avoids the Rebuilt branding altogether.

Non-Repairable Title
If a Salvage vehicle has been picked clean at a junkyard, or was destroyed by fire, then it will be issued a non-rebuildable title or certificate. Once a vehicle gets that, it's over. It can never be rebuilt or registered. It's only good for recycling. Although it does have a massive value to many corporations as a "Smog Credit".


Assigned VIN numbers
In a nutshell, if you construct your own homebrew trailer, or even vehicle which some states do allow, OR the VIN number on a factory-built vehicle was knowingly tampered with, the state usually declares all bets off, and then assigns the vehicle it's own VIN number. Just like in the story above. Even if you can reasonably deduct the original VIN, the DMV won't risk it, and will just assign a fresh VIN. Which just like a Rebuilt title is intended to notify all future buyers that the vehicle isn't what it seems.

But in any case, be aware that Slang Terms are not definitive for legal terms. And that if you buy a car with a salvage title, you can't register it right away. You can rebuild it and get it titled, but it will be branded and will certainly have a diminished value. All things you should be aware of before going in on any vehicle purchase.

[Mike0173]

Thanks, that is all correct and what I had expected when buying this car. I wanted a project and I planned to spend several years working on it. If it were that straight forward, I wouldn't have any issue.

Where the problem arose is with the Dismantled label. Its very easy to google up the straight salvage title and figure out what it takes....which admittedly is what I did before buying this car. But, dismantled titles take it one step further and prevents one from ever getting a rebuilt title. There isnt much info out there on the dismantled label, which i think is a valid reason for our discussion here.
I would really have liked to keep things original, especially the title (if I do ever sell it). But now my only option is a special constructed/assembled from parts/kit car title...which will kill any value I imagine. Or I sell it now and disclose what I know now...and get screwed either way.

[David T]

Here in new Jersey you can have the car reinspected through a special procedure that may or may not get you back a legit Title. All of the work that you may have to do is at your full risk if they inspect and deny your application. They would remove the "Salvage" and reinstate your original Title if they are satisfied with your work. There is also a rather large fee involved no matter if you get the Title fixed or not. All of this is to discourage people from buying a cheap salvage vehicle and trying to sell it for a profit. It is primarily meant to stop people from buying a flood car in, say Texas, cheap, taking it to New Jersey, clean it up a little, and then trying to sell it for full retail. Expect to see this happen in the coming months anyway. Just imagine all of the car dealer's lots full of new and used cars under water in Texas. And all of the cars that insurance companies will be buying and then reselling at auctions. This has happened in the past and will happen again.

[DMCVegas]

Here in new Jersey you can have the car reinspected through a special procedure that may or may not get you back a legit Title. All of the work that you may have to do is at your full risk if they inspect and deny your application. They would remove the "Salvage" and reinstate your original Title if they are satisfied with your work. There is also a rather large fee involved no matter if you get the Title fixed or not. All of this is to discourage people from buying a cheap salvage vehicle and trying to sell it for a profit. It is primarily meant to stop people from buying a flood car in, say Texas, cheap, taking it to New Jersey, clean it up a little, and then trying to sell it for full retail. Expect to see this happen in the coming months anyway. Just imagine all of the car dealer's lots full of new and used cars under water in Texas. And all of the cars that insurance companies will be buying and then reselling at auctions. This has happened in the past and will happen again.

Not quite, Dave. In fact, it's like Nevada, but with different designations. You cannot register a vehicle with a Salvage title, but yes, you can repair it and obtain a normal title again. There is no question about that, because that is the only way to register a vehicle. HOWEVER, it will NOT be an entirely clean title. Nevada has a section on the title labeled "BRANDS" where it will say "REBUILT". New Jersey has a section labeled "STATUS" where it simply says "R" or something to that effect.

That variance in branding is what facilitates the process of title washing, as well as uninformed buyers.



I would really have liked to keep things original, especially the title (if I do ever sell it). But now my only option is a special constructed/assembled from parts/kit car title...which will kill any value I imagine. Or I sell it now and disclose what I know now...and get screwed either way.

Again, given the variances in branding, I've no idea what "Dismantled" means for whatever state labeled it as such. But depending upon the state, you will have some potential options. The best bet would be to see if perhaps you can go for a "Reconstructed" type of vehicle, which given the age/status, who knows if you might not be able to get an exemption. That allows you to rebuild the car as a DeLorean DMC-12. A "Specially Constructed" title is that kit car thing. However, it must be a unique vehicle in the end that was never constructed by a known, recognized manufacturer. Now I've no idea what aesthetics may be on the outside, particularly with brightwork and badges, but with this title you would receive an assigned VIN from the state, and would never be able to legally call it a DeLorean again.

Check with your local state regulations, of course, to see what your options are. But be aware that you're never going to get away from that stigma of a salvage title. Even if your state issued you a clean one, that VIN will still show a it's current status when a historical lookup for the chain of custody is done. If you ever sell it and misrepresent the car in anyway as never having that title (and for whatever reason it was assigned), that would get you into legal trouble by misrepresenting the car since you obviously know about this problem with the title.

[David T]

[QUOTE=DMCVegas;223942]Not quite, Dave. In fact, it's like Nevada, but with different designations. You cannot register a vehicle with a Salvage title, but yes, you can repair it and obtain a normal title again. There is no question about that, because that is the only way to register a vehicle. HOWEVER, it will NOT be an entirely clean title. Nevada has a section on the title labeled "BRANDS" where it will say "REBUILT". New Jersey has a section labeled "STATUS" where it simply says "R" or something to that effect.

That variance in branding is what facilitates the process of title washing, as well as uninformed buyers.

Maybe so but you still get to keep your VIN # and it is still a Delorean. To a purist or collector who wants a completely "clean" Title it means that it was salvage at one time and then repaired. To everyone else it means it is a legal Delorean.

[DMCVegas]

Maybe so but you still get to keep your VIN # and it is still a Delorean. To a purist or collector who wants a completely "clean" Title it means that it was salvage at one time and then repaired. To everyone else it means it is a legal Delorean.

Two things:

1. There is only one type of vehicle title that allows a vehicle to be registered. The branding of Rebuilt, Specially Built, Fleet, Flood, or whatever will be affixed to said title to indicate past history, but it's still the same title. Doesn't mean that the vehicle itself may be 100% "clean" per se with that branding, but it is still the same title.

2. It isn't just about being a purist, and it doesn't mean a "clean" vehicle. It is meant to be a red flag on purpose in order to alert the next buyer that a deeper investigation into the vehicle is warranted. Which is as it should be.

Yes, thanks to the cost of airbags for instance, some perfectly repairable vehicles end up receiving salvage titles because the repair costs are higher than what the insurance company wants to pay. But salvage titles play a very important role for consumers because they warn that some seriously catastrophic damage has occurred. The kind of damage that may not be immediately visible, and may compromise the integrity of the vehicle's performance, and/or safety.

Flood water for instance is the perfect example of this. Water can wash off protective coatings or even trap moisture, and can initiate slow growing corrosion in wiring harnesses, computers, etc. Not to mention hidden rust, and damage to the entire drivetrain. So if you have a car for sale with a clean title, I know that not withstanding any visible modifications, the wiring & drivetrain is in normal, used condition. Which may tell me it's fine on a newer car, or means that it could need servicing on an antique. But the moment that a vehicle is flooded, hoo boy! Now I have to worry about rust in hidden places. I have to worry about checking all of those problem areas, and then worry about them prematurely failing without warning. These are substantial repair costs down the road that would otherwise never have been a concern previously.

Another great example is the 2017 Honda Civic Type R. Thanks to a new design with integrated exhaust manifolds inside of the block, we've now seen that a significant enough impact in the front can lead to actual damage to the engine block.

Now sure, you and I know DeLoreans well enough that we would most likely consider purchasing a rebuilt one because we know what to look for, and what questions to ask to ensure we were getting a quality car. Likewise a good seller in order to aid any buyer SHOULD have a portfolio of photographs & receipts to have documented to repairs to show that the car is 100% again. But that kind documentation, along with the subsequent inspections which need to be performed, all cost money. And that's under the assumption that they were done right the first time. Whether those costs fall upon the seller, the buyer, or gets split, it still is a significant cost which must be recovered via a reduced selling price. Then since this process has to occur each time the car is resold, the depreciation from that title is actually pretty valid.

So yeah, even though I'm personally willing to buy a DeLorean that has a rebuilt title, you bet your sweet bippy that I will be a whole lot more wary of the car. Show my a derelict car that was abandoned & neglected with a clean title, and a restored one in tip-top shape with a branded as rebuilt title, and yeah, I'm going to be extra careful with the inspection of that restored car vs. the basket case.

[Chris Burns]

This one has a nice frame on it, but a cracked dash and binnicale. Better than most of the cars they get usually!!:jawdrop:

https://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorean-dmc-12-c-7916.htm

[louielouie2000]

It's a shame their other DeLorean has some corrosion issues, because black interior '82s are extremely rare:

https://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1982-delorean-dmc-12-c-7739.htm

[Iznodmad]

IDK, Louie. I'm gonna say it is an 83. Only those rather late 83s had the strap over the coil cover. I believe it is a DD vin instead of a CD vin.

[Jonathan]

It's a shame their other DeLorean has some corrosion issues, because black interior '82s are extremely rare:

https://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1982-delorean-dmc-12-c-7739.htm


IDK, Louie. I'm gonna say it is an 83. Only those rather late 83s had the strap over the coil cover. I believe it is a DD vin instead of a CD vin.

I noticed that car still has the "over top" engine wiring harness and that was something that changed fairly late in the game. That might indicate it was a car before that production change. I don't have my VIN decoder cheat sheet notes in front of me so can't quote exactly when that happened though. This is the chunk of wiring harness that drapes over the corner of the W pipe and deice shield instead of being neatly tucked under it.

[Iznodmad]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171116/224ee0eea605df37f3b4fbc18ccf4333.jpg
Actually, maybe it really is a CD 1982 car, assuming this sticker is correct. Jonathan makes a good point too about the engine harness. There is a pic of the window sticker, but it just blurs out and I can't see anything like the VIN on it.

[Dangermouse]

The part where the VIN should be actually just looks blank to me.

[Chris Burns]

https://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorean-dmc-12-c-7955.htm

[Chris Burns]

Nice interior on this one!!

https://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorean-dmc-c-8040.htm

[mburshtain]

Nice interior on this one!!

https://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorean-dmc-c-8040.htm

That is the nicest looking Delorean that I ever seen in that place. It might have mechanical issues but still looks amazing !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sdg3205]

Not fair. BHCC isn't allowed to binnacles and dashes that are nicer than mine.

[Chris Burns]

https://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorean-dmc-12-c-8412.htm

[bastien-fma]

https://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorean-dmc-12-c-8412.htm

Was for sale 7500 $ on Craigslist two weeks ago...
32 000 $ for a salvage Red Delorean. I love BHCC.... <3

[Nicholas R]

I love how they state: "Has 9k miles on the odometer." Anybody that takes one look at the interior or underside of that car knows it has more than 9k miles on it, but they're looking for the schmuck that truly believes they're buying a car that somehow has only 9k miles on it, even though it has a salvage title.

Not to mention, a painted car with a salvage title? Talk about a red flag (no pun intended). It'd be interesting to find out what's under that paint; I'd wager there's more than just Stainless Steel. Unreal for $32k.

[Michael]

We can all say BHCC iads are misleading as best but they have been making it work for them for some time now. I dare say they may be knocking on the door of the DeLorean vendors for number of D's sold through their shop.
They have found the winning formula for flipping Deloreans for a profit. Buy cars not far removed from "part out" status, give them a lick and a promise and push them off to gullible blobs with their head in the clouds dreaming about driving a BTTF car of their own having absolutely no idea what kind of money it will still take to make it complete.

[Delorean Industries]

I purchase easily half if not more of these cars. I purchase through various brokers on my behalf. There is a lot of wiggle room so to speak on their advertised pricing. They are not trying to get rich off one car sale but an average of moving volume.

[David T]

This red one looks pretty nice for a BHCC car. The price is way too "ambitious" for a car with a missing VIN tag and a salvage Title. Some unsuspecting buyer is going to get a surprise when he finds out he can't register the car. The outside looks good but the inside is rough, especially for 9,XXX miles. Wonder why it got a salvage Title, probably a flood car.

[Dangermouse]

We can all say BHCC iads are misleading as best but they have been making it work for them for some time now. I dare say they may be knocking on the door of the DeLorean vendors for number of D's sold through their shop.
They have found the winning formula for flipping Deloreans for a profit. Buy cars not far removed from "part out" status, give them a lick and a promise and push them off to gullible blobs with their head in the clouds dreaming about driving a BTTF car of their own having absolutely no idea what kind of money it will still take to make it complete.

I partly agree with this, but I don't believe they give them a lick of anything, just push them out there as is, good, bad or very ugly.

Actually as ads go, I think they are some of the best IMHO - no rose-tinted owner hyperbole, just the basic facts and tons of photos. And a very optimistic price. The only misleading part would be assuming a $30k car here is the same as a $30k car elsewhere :). Potential buyers should start with the assumption that they don't run until proven otherwise.

I agree 100% with the last part of the final sentence. But I have heard of many more satisfied BHCC buyers than unsatisfied ones.

Plus, this is about their 100th DeLorean in 5 years so they are really working on volume. 20 a year is probably more than any single DMCx location/DPI/Grady etc. And it is the same story with every other marque. Take a browse through their "Sold Inventory" sometime; it's like a really nasty Pebble Beach concours :)

[chris williams]

Actually as ads go, I think they are some of the best IMHO - no rose-tinted owner hyperbole, just the basic facts and tons of photos. And a very optimistic price. The only misleading part would be assuming a $30k car here is the same as a $30k car elsewhere . Potential buyers should start with the assumption that they don't run until proven otherwise.
I would agree with Dermot on this, though had missed that the red one had a salvage title. I have helped with a few buyers who have bought cars from them to come back to the UK and Europe and have found them to be more than helpful. They will always provide specific pictures and videos of anything you want to see a picture of and are very honest in answering questions. But you need to ask the questions to get the answers you require! they only offer the information they wish to give.
Chris

[Chris Burns]

All I can say is.... holy hell!! What swamp did they dig this one up from?


https://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1982-delorean-dmc-c-8415.htm

[SKnight]

All I can say is.... holy hell!! What swamp did they dig this one up from?


https://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1982-delorean-dmc-c-8415.htm

:jawdrop: Can you even call that a frame anymore? It seriously looks like the engine could fall right out.

[DMC-Ron]

All I can say is.... holy hell!! What swamp did they dig this one up from?


https://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1982-delorean-dmc-c-8415.htm

To their credit, they didn't try to hide it.

Ron

[WHO1DMC]

All I can say is.... holy hell!! What swamp did they dig this one up from?


https://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1982-delorean-dmc-c-8415.htm

From ad! An extremely collectible example which has had the same owner for many years. For $22,750
What's extremely collectible about this being it's back is broken!!
B.S. on that!!!

[Rich]

To their credit, they didn't try to hide it.

Ron

Yup. WYSISWG. At least BHCC isn't unethical in this respect.

That rear crossmember is a ghost of its former self.

[Dangermouse]

Nice clean 82

$54,500 from BHCC. Yes, that BHCC

https://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1982-delorean-dmc-12-c-8480.htm



Remember the days when we talked about the Barrett-Jackson Effect when a car reached the stratospheric heights of >$50k

[Dangermouse]

Totally going against form, BHCC has just listed another silver gullwing for $140k

https://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/2012-mercedes-benz-sls-amg-gullwing-coupe-c-8133.htm

Still "mechanically sound" though :)

[Andrew]

Wow! BHCC's most recent car has so much frame rot that the engine is literally falling out! Look at the tailpipe drop on the driver's side. I would be downright afraid to be under that thing on a lift! That's not to say that an engine cradle can't be repaired / welded / fabricated. But dang, that one is BAD!

[Dangermouse]

Link?

[MML]

Here it is Dermot

https://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1982-delorean-dmc-12-c-8415.htm

[DMC-81]

Wow. Such a difference in the one listed for $54,500 and this one listed at $22,900. Same year, very different condition, all based on how it was stored and cared for.

[Michael]

https://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1982-delorean-dmc-12-c-8415.htm

Wow. Such a difference in the one listed for $54,500 and this one listed at $22,900. Same year, very different condition, all based on how it was stored and cared for.

Even more so, the people will be lined up at the gate to buy a 15k-20k DeLorean that needs 20k in parts and labor to be made whole, and at the same time scoff at the pristine 35-40k example as being overpriced and the owner a "dreamer" as one lazy person likes to put it.

[DMC-81]

Even more so, the people will be lined up at the gate to buy a 15k-20k DeLorean that needs 20k in parts and labor to be made whole, and at the same time scoff at the pristine 35-40k example as being overpriced and the owner a "dreamer" as one lazy person likes to put it.

Exactly. I know for a fact that these pristine $35-40 cars are worth at least every penny and more. Like you said, just try to make a lesser one whole and see how much time and money that costs.

[matt clark]

The rotten auto also has 3 tell-tale holes in the left wing/fender from a BTTF conversion.

I've just bought a BHCC car, and it's finally on the boat over to me. Will be interesting to see how much needs doing. The underpinnings look solid, as do all the panels (bar the right wing), but figuring everything else inbetween needs replacing. Going to settle in to a nice long project...

[matt clark]

Also FWIW I don't think BHCC are dishonest at all - especially not by the standards of most car dealers. They give you a shitload of photos to make the decision yourself, and when I was talking to them they were happy to take whatever photos / inspect whatever areas I could think of. Agree that unless it says it's running, assume it doesn't (mine isn't). They definitely don't volunteer stuff, but to be honest I don't know any car dealers who do, but they don't seem dishonest.

I'm not massively thrilled that I've paid what I've paid for it, but I was focusing on other things when the prices started to rise, so that's on me. It boggles the mind a bit that the market is what it is - I'm young enough to remember museum quality right-hand-drive DMC12s going for not much more than the basket case wrecks go for here now.

I've set up an Instagram for the car, which is here: https://www.instagram.com/delorean4267/ - we'll see how much regret is to come.

Dermot - will reply to your email soon - snowed under with work!

[SamHill]

Many people have been likewise baffled that prices remained low for such a long time. There is a herd mentality: those stupid prices for Mopar in the mid 00s are over and now there's tulip mania over all things 911. The D has had a modest and slow but solid appreciation.

[Dangermouse]

Dermot - will reply to your email soon - snowed under with work!

no problem Matt.

That's what pays the bills to allow us to live our dreams.

[powerline84]

"Comes with a clean car fax"
Just dont look at the right rear lol

https://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorean-dmc-12-c-9350.htm

[FABombjoy]

On the plus side, it has a newer radiator!

[Chris Burns]

"Comes with a clean car fax"
Just dont look at the right rear lol

https://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorean-dmc-12-c-9350.htm


DMC Midwest worked on that car before BHCC bought it. Frame rot, clutch slips, all kinds of issues.

Stay away!! :TrainWreck:

[David T]

Something VERY wrong with that right, rear wheel! I would never say stay away but $20,000 seems like way too much. For the right price to the right buyer every car should have a home. That said, no one should over pay for a piece of junk expecting to drive it home. BHCC is very good at finding junk, washing it and cleaning it up and asking an ambitious price. Anyone buying from them needs to do a very through inspection and decide what a car they offer is really worth. BHCC doesn't lie but they don't tell the whole truth either.

[Michael]

BHCC is there not to give you awesome cars for fair prices. They are in business to make money(like most of us are). They may be a bit shady but they can only do that because they are banking on the total laziness of today's millennial DeLorean consumer. Today's DeLorean buyer does not believe in searching for the right car, they do not believe in putting labor, hours and maybe even a little money to find it, rather they will post a thread here and on Facebook to the tune of "Wanted, DeLorean. Must be this and this and that interior color. Whatcha got?" In other words they can't be bothered with the diligent search, they want sellers to just line up at their front door so all they need to do is take a look and say "nahhh, too much. NEXT!" And they get away with it because they have you sellers jumping through their hoops and eating out of their hand. That's what BHCC is banking on...buyer laziness. Laziness to look harder, tightwad nature to pay for an unbiased inspection, pie in the sky restoration dream without having the first clue to the amount of effort and money it takes.(these points apply to all cars sold online) In short the only reason dealers like BHCC even exist is the saturation of lazy self absorbed people with an entitlement complex and a desire to save a buck.
Godspeed BHCC, perhaps the only retailer to sell more DeLoreans since the licensed dealers back in 1982

[jackb]

...buyer does not believe in searching for the right car, they do not believe in putting labor, hours and maybe even a little money to find it, rather they will post a thread here and on Facebook to the tune of "Wanted, DeLorean. Must be this and this and that interior color. Whatcha got?" In other words they can't be bothered with the diligent search, they want sellers to just line up at their front door so all they need to do is take a look and say "nahhh, too much. NEXT!"...

100% accurate, and drives me crazy. Not just limited to Delorean buying, either.

It is a bit of a sweeping generalization to say "Todays Delorean buyer," though. You only think that because you don't see the plenty of other buyers scouring ebay, inspecting/test driving cars, comparing them, looking up their history, and actually "putting in the work" to find the right car for them.

[Jimmyvonviggle]

That rear wheel reminds me of those Hondas that had the 4 wheel steering.

[Spittybug]

Dreaded TAB breakage by the looks of things.

[SamHill]

lazy self absorbed people with an entitlement complex

Michael never misses a chance to slam me publicly.

[vwdmc16]

Dreaded TAB breakage by the looks of things.

That much angle I was thinking a shattered RR upright/hub. A much more expensive fault.

[David T]

Whatever it is, it is so bad they can't put the correct wheel on it! A broken TAB and the wheel wouldn't stay centered. Looks like possibly a curb hit, the fender is all munched up too. In any case, as with any car being purchased from anyone, it should have a through inspection by a qualified tech. With a good inspection a buyer can then make a proper offer or decide to pass on this wonderful example of Delorean engineering. BHCC counts on a buyer getting "hot pants" and not looking too closely, not doing their "due diligence" and overpaying. They keep doing sales this way because it works for them. The rest of the car may be in OK shape, hard to tell from the pictures.

[Jonathan]

I think the frame is a little bent too, on that right side of the engine cradle. Likely did get whacked in some fender bender. And watch out for that spring... looks like she's about ready to blow!

[Mark D]

"Comes with a clean car fax"
Just dont look at the right rear lol

https://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1981-delorean-dmc-12-c-9350.htm

If this is seriously what kind of DeLorean $20,000 is buying these days then I must be sitting on a gold mine :jawdrop:

[Riley88]

BHCC is there not to give you awesome cars for fair prices. They are in business to make money(like most of us are). They may be a bit shady but they can only do that because they are banking on the total laziness of today's millennial DeLorean consumer. Today's DeLorean buyer does not believe in searching for the right car, they do not believe in putting labor, hours and maybe even a little money to find it, rather they will post a thread here and on Facebook to the tune of "Wanted, DeLorean. Must be this and this and that interior color. Whatcha got?" In other words they can't be bothered with the diligent search, they want sellers to just line up at their front door so all they need to do is take a look and say "nahhh, too much. NEXT!" And they get away with it because they have you sellers jumping through their hoops and eating out of their hand. That's what BHCC is banking on...buyer laziness. Laziness to look harder, tightwad nature to pay for an unbiased inspection, pie in the sky restoration dream without having the first clue to the amount of effort and money it takes.(these points apply to all cars sold online) In short the only reason dealers like BHCC even exist is the saturation of lazy self absorbed people with an entitlement complex and a desire to save a buck.
Godspeed BHCC, perhaps the only retailer to sell more DeLoreans since the licensed dealers back in 1982

If this isnt the most true thing ive ever read

[Hill Valley PD]

I am a millennial I think, born in 1984, but we are not all the same. My DeLorean is not the first classic car I've purchased. In 2015, I drove five hours one way to look at the 1970 Mustang Mach 1 I ultimately bought and then rented a trailer and towed it home myself because I did not want to chance it on 25 year old tires. For me, the hunt is half the fun. With the DeLorean, I did research for the better part of a year, hung out on this forum, asked questions, read DeLorean-related books, and visited DMC MW to look at them in person to decide which features appealed to me. I was ready to buy a plane ticket to go to California to look at Ryan S's minty 81 automatic when my wife said she didn't care if I got a 5 speed since she did not want to drive it anyway. Then it was back to looking for 5 speeds. By that time, I had reached out to DMC MW to see what they had not listed online and learned they had the exact car I was looking for. Ultimately, I decided to pay a small premium and go through DMC and could not be happier with that decision. I looked at listings on BHCC but never seriously considered them because I knew that I would dump more money into a car from there making it nice than just buying a nice one upfront. Reality is many millennials have huge student loans from Gender Studies and Philosophy degrees and do not possess the disposable income to purchase a really nice DeLorean given recent prices. Thus, BHCC fills a void in the market.

[Soundkillr]

If this is seriously what kind of DeLorean $20,000 is buying these days then I must be sitting on a gold mine :jawdrop:

No.... It isn't. They are dreaming and won't come close to that price. That car is close to garbage.

[David T]

You don't have to be a millennial to make bad choices. PT Barnum once said it well, "There's a sucker born EVERY minute"!

[Michael]

No.... It isn't. They are dreaming and won't come close to that price. That car is close to garbage.

People always say that but BHCC always moves a DeLorean, let's not forget about this little gem that sold for 13k and that was like 4 years ago.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10576-Just-got-my-project-DeLorean

They may not get 20, but they will get their number.

[iflights]

You don't have to be a millennial to make bad choices. PT Barnum once said it well, "There's a sucker born EVERY minute"!

Barnum may not have said it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There's_a_sucker_born_every_minute

[Soundkillr]

People always say that but BHCC always moves a DeLorean, let's not forget about this little gem that sold for 13k and that was like 4 years ago.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10576-Just-got-my-project-DeLorean

They may not get 20, but they will get their number.

It may get their number but it won't be 20k.

[eight8toy]

I don't necessarily see why all the hate for BHCC. They seem to post pretty well photographed cars including frames while on a lift, not just a camera shot while trying to lie down on the ground and shooting the frame.

So what if their prices seem too high for the small Delorean community owners, I personally welcome higher asking prices for some of the lower quality examples since that only means mine is valued more!

And as a "millennial" I don't agree with all of us being lumped into the same category of buyer. Some of us are excited new owners who work on our cars way more than you old farts! :)

[Jimmyvonviggle]

People always say that but BHCC always moves a DeLorean, let's not forget about this little gem that sold for 13k and that was like 4 years ago.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10576-Just-got-my-project-DeLorean

They may not get 20, but they will get their number.


Ouch.

[Soundkillr]

Ouch.

How is that ouch? There are DeLoreans weekly posted on ebay in the 20s that are drivers and decent cars, yet they go all the time with no bids at all. Some even with no reserve. I don't care what they ask for it in the long run. My statement is: that car simply isn't worth it at 20k. Not even close to worth it.
If you check completed listings 5 cars lately sold in mid 20s with some even less that that, with best offer accepted, and two in the 20s with no bids at all. Every one of those cars were very solid starting points, and even drivers. I also know of a one car in the mid twenties lately, and the seller gave up on selling it. He had only lowball offers on an already fair priced car.

[peternikkiskinner]

As a buyer of a BHCC "D" most of what I have read in this thread is fair comment. It must also be said that as a foreign buyer trying to purchase a D is very difficult unless one is prepared to fly to the States, travel around the country which involves taking time off work and accommodation costs. Having done all of this, there is no guarantee of finding a really good one. Very early on it became abundantly clear to me that buying from a Licensed Dealer was the only sensible course of action for a foreigner. I had many, many dead ends and sellers who either wasted my time or were out and out scammers. The problem is that many Dealers (like some sellers) look at the prices being asked by the various DMC branches and think their D is worth that much. They do not realise that most DMCH, CA, MW & FL DeLoreans have had $10 - $30k spent on them to realise an asking price of $50k - $65k.

Most Dealers are asking crazy prices, BHCC included but at least they post good photos and will take a video of the car being driven and provide as many additional photos as you may wish. Yes their descriptions are thin on detail and they will only give vague answers to the questions you ask but one can then assume that most if not all the required work will need to be done. They do not seem to ever sell cars which have been restored only ones found in barns or sitting idle in collections. I was fortunate to have a member of this forum take a look at the D I eventually purchased and from there had it shipped to DMC CA for a thorough evaluation resulting in $16k being spent on her. This was a little more than I had budgeted but the end result is a reliable and safe D which passed New Zealand's stringent entry and roadworthy regulations first time. This rarely happens and is a real credit to Danny and the team at DMC CA! What I should have done was get the evaluation done before purchasing but I doubt BHCC would have reduced the price further. The forum member pointed out a few things and several thousand dollars was eventually and reluctantly taken off the price. Only with this reduction was the price reasonable but no bargain! Gevik at BHCC is a very personable man to deal with.

In short I would say, get DMC CA to take a look at any BHCC D you might consider purchasing. Then use this evaluation to negotiate, negotiate and negotiate. If you cannot get it down to where it should be then walk away as another is just around the corner. BHCC have sold in excess of 100 D's over several years and it is fair to say that from time to time even they will buy a nice car. Talking to the previous owner and learning the history of VIN 4273 was fascinating and I also found out how much they paid for her. The mark up was around $4k so not too bad once the negotiations were completed. I would have preferred to buy from DMC directly but at the time they did not have an Automatic for sale at any of their branches nor were any coming through the pipeline that fit my requirements. Being patient also helps, we could all do with a bit more of this.