OFFICIAL Re-graining Stainless Thread

[Ryan King]

Okay...I really want to know the full scoop on doing a full body re-grain. I would like this thread to be about past experiences with trying to do so, for not only myself, but for others in the future that want to take on the task. (Thus the "Official" title.)

I have heard from our fellow forum member, tgraham, that the "Wolfhead" wheel seems to be the best way to go about doing a full re-grain. Allow me to quote him from a previous thread -

Link to Discussion -
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?36-Regraining-Stainless&highlight=Wolfhead

And another link from tgraham's personal Restoration Website -
http://www.noroads.com/delorean/3281/?content=20091018
(Photos on this thread courtesy of his site as well)

And another link from tgraham's personal Restoration Website -
http://www.noroads.com/delorean/3281/?content=20100110


That's me :) I bought a previously-painted RF fender and re-grained it with a "factory-like" setup to get all of the scoring out.

The factory tooling was a modified ARO (now Ingersoll Rand) inline air grinder and a "Vonnegut wheel" on the end of it. You can buy the modern version of the Vonnegut wheel from the same manufacturer, which is called a "Wolfhead wheel". This is a high-quality industrial tool, not some crappy/cheap attachment that you can buy at the local hardware warehouse. I've seen those, and the thought of one of those things spinning around and coming anywhere near one of my cars makes me cringe... maybe that's just me, though.

To do it right, you'll need that Wolfhead wheel and plenty of aluminum oxide abrasive loadings, some form of air tool (probably a drill) that will spin it ~800-1000 RPM, and a big compressor with the capacity to run it constantly. However, that RPM range is pretty slow for a drill, so your options are limited to those intended for manufacturing use. Inline is probably a little ergonomically-better, but I have a pistol grip and it's fine. The Wolfhead is heavy, so make sure the tool has enough power to spin it!

After you have the equipment in hand, it's down to practice and skill. As David said, having a beater panel on hand to sharpen your skills is handy and probably worth the cost to purchase one (a damaged RF fender with an antenna holes is about as cheap as it gets). The Wolfhead will get you most of the way there, but you'll still want to go over everything with a pad by hand afterwards - that makes all of the difference. But as you can see from the two attachments, it is very effective - I made some pretty nasty scratches in that panel - MUCH worse than the ones that were on my to-be-restored panel.

Also, I used 3M Safest Stripper to remove the remains of the paint on my replacement panel - I just left it sitting there for a week, then the paint scraped right off. This particular stripper takes time to do its job, but I've never had it damage anything underneath the paint and I use this stuff a LOT on cars.

Good luck.

Travis

3773
3774
3775
3776

I would like to look into purchasing one for myself. But before I do so, I would like to make sure it is the best option for me... (Where to buy? How much does one cost?)

The reason being that I want to take this on is at one point in my college days, my car was keyed in a parking lot and no matter how much I try, I cannot get the scratch out. I have spent over an hour with elbow grease and a pad trying to do so to no avail.

Anyways. Let the discussions begin. Thoughts, Concerns, Questions and Answers. GO!

[Ryan King]

Also for Reference -

John Hevey claims to have an Original Factory used graining tool. You can find the reference photo on his website here -
http://www.specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/accessories.html
(Very bottom of the page)

Quoted from the "Yahoo Groups" website -


Travis,
When I buy stainless in sheets like 4 x 8 it was bought already grained.
Then the tool was to be used to clean up any scars or marks that was made
during the processing or making the car.
I have an original air operated tool and head. Also have a few extra 80 grit
1 1/2" wide small belts to go on the wheel. There is a picture on my web
site accessory page at the bottom.
Hope this helps.
John
www.specialtauto.com

3777

I have also seen that DMC-CA has these tools as well. Is this the best regraining method out there?

[Ryan King]

Yet another Reference -
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?36-Regraining-Stainless/page4


Took me a while to find it, but the guy was in Slovakia, not Hungary - hence the confusion ;), although he is a member of the Delorean club of Hungary.

He is a gentleman (I presume) with the handle "Bopat" - I think he was on the old forum also. He stripped a red car as part of an ambitious restoration of vin 701. Thanks to him for the following pics from his blog.

The rig:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YgwwenlavIw/TStt6MVjVTI/AAAAAAAADFs/TyISUelR4EA/s1600/P1106439_resize.JPG

Stripped of paint, but swirls clearly visible

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YgwwenlavIw/TStt5azkzvI/AAAAAAAADFk/_8CbDK8-2oQ/s1600/P1106436_resize.JPG

After:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YgwwenlavIw/TStt03cV6kI/AAAAAAAADFM/nzoS5ZaFXAk/s1600/P1106426_resize.JPG

And his blog with his other substantial resto work on this car

http://dmc701.blogspot.com/

And even a short video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBOlnH8_eJ0&feature=player_embedded#at=12

[Ryan King]

Yet ANOTHER good detailed reference from Ben Ferguson with the Arizona DeLorean Club. He wrote a very good detailed method of where to obtain and what to buy when it comes to regraining stainless on the DeLorean .

http://www.projectvixen.com/DMCNews-archive/msg64467.html


First, I would like to apologize for not posting this a few months
ago, after the de-paneling event at my house. I have been so busy
that I haven't done much of anything DeLorean wise. My write-up was
going to be much more eloquent, but time to write is rare. So here is
the stripped-down cliff notes version of what I had originally
planned to write. Please consider this my technical write-up for
those who may be interested.

"Here's what I did." - Stainless Steel Regraining, by Ben Ferguson
(Captain Hydrogen), Arizona DeLorean Club (www.az-d.org).

1. Learned how to regrain stainless steel under the direct
guidance of Don Steger (www.deloreanmotorcenter.com) (about eight
hours spread across two sessions).

2. Got further regraining tool and technique information from
Rob Grady (www.pjgrady.com), Stephen Wynne (www.delorean.com), and
Chris Nicholson
(www.deloreans.co.uk/gallery/memberspages/cnicholson/cnicholson.html
and www.pjgrady.co.uk). Found that other types of wheels including
the Sand-O-Flex, are "crap" when it comes to regraining the
DeLorean's stainless steel and also to use Aluminum Oxide abrasive to
prevent any corrosion from the abrasive material. Found that the
optimum range for regraining is 800 - 1000 RPM, any faster will
polish the stainless, any slower and you will grow old and die before
you finish regraining your car.

3. Researched original air tool used for regraining (ARO Corp.
(an Ingersoll Rand division), Model Number: 8067-E1S, which is a
Model: 8067-E1 that has been regeared from 4500 to 1000 RPM) and
found that it is still available for about $950 and requires a high
capacity air compressor to run at a consistent 1000 rpm for long
periods of time.

4. Spent about 30 - 45 minutes with a high-speed internet
connection and found Grinding & Polishing Machinery Co.
(www.gandpmachinery.com), the original manufacturer of the Vonnegut
Wheel and found that the product is now called "Wolf Head Wheel", but
still based on the original design patent (2,194,577 March 1940
Vonnegut).

5. Telephoned Grinding & Polishing Machinery Co., 2801 Tobey
Dr., Indianapolis, Indiana, 46219, Phone: 317-898-0750 Fax: 317-899-
1627, and asked questions and placed order with Larry Hardin
(President).

6. Ordered a 2" wide, 12 brush, Wolf Head Wheel with a 3/8"
mandrel (about $155). I know the one that the original ones that a
few lucky DeLorean owners and shops have use a 1/2" mandrel, but at
the time of my order, I wasn't sure if the air or electric tool that
I would end up using would have a 1/2" chuck or not, so I got a 3/8"
mandrel to be more versatile. I also ordered two sets of 2" wide 1/8"
cut Aluminum Oxide abrasive strip loads for the Wolf Head Wheel
(about $12 each) because right when you run out of the first load is
when you will need a second load. Total order was for the Vonnegut /
Wolf Head Wheel and two loads of abrasive strips, about $179 +
shipping.

7. Decided to use an electric drill rather than an air tool,
mainly because I don't have an air compressor and for the fact that
electricity is much more widely available than compressed air if I
were to regrain in any location. Also, a corded electric drill
doesn't slow down if you run it for an hour at a time like a high CFM
air tool does. I bought a RIDGID R7100 1/2 Inch Drill ($125 at Home
Depot) (www.ridgid.com/Tools/R7100-Half-Inch-Drill). It has several
features that I like: such as two speed ranges High 0-3,000 RPM / Low
Speed 0-1,000 RPM (1,000 RPM is exactly what you want when regraining
your DeLorean), Lock-on Button for continuous drilling so your
fingers don't get tired pulling the trigger, the front handle that I
swivel to the opposite side of the drill when regraining is very nice
for support when regraining, and the 3,000 RPM setting is great with
the smaller 3" diameter x 1.5" wide 60 - 80 grit flap wheels for
getting rid of die grinder swirls from bad body filler repairs, deep
gouges, and paint/primer removal before regraining. Also, this
electric drill is noticeably lighter than the original air tool.

8. Additional items to get: a small or large diameter flap wheel
(3" - 6" diameter x 1.5" wide 60 - 80 grit about $5 at Home Depot
example: www.abrasiveproducts.net/Kasco/flap1.htm), 3M Scotch-Brite
7446 Blending Hand Pad (Buyer's Part Number: 7446, 3M Id: 61-5001-
2322-1), 3M Scotch-Brite Microfiber Cloth, and Stainless Steel Polish
(your preference).

9. The rest of stainless steel regraining is knowledge and
technique. Anyone can learn to do this, but there is only one Chris
Nicholson.

I hope the above information helps a lot of DeLorean owners.

When visiting Arizona, contact the AZ-D for an impromptu event.

Good Luck,
Ben Ferguson (Captain Hydrogen)
Arizona DeLorean Club (www.az-d.org), Car Cruise Director - VIN
10365, CAPT H2
American Hydrogen Association (www.clean-air.org) - Board of
Directors, 1996 - present

[tgraham]

Just a couple of pointers (my opinions only). Some of this is repeated elsewhere, I think...

1) It helps to keep the abrasive trimmed to extend only ~1/2" beyond the brushes. Any more than that and whatever is left just flaps around and can introduce cross scratches more frequently.

2) The width of tool you get is personal preference. Narrower = more control around the curves, wider = less time. I've used a 2" and it's fine.

3) I like the results of 60 grit abrasive. Just make sure it's aluminum oxide.

4) Expect to do the whole car by hand with a pad afterwards - the Wolfhead gets the big stuff out (like scratches from previously-painted fenders) quickly, but you'll want to refine it.

5) The tool you use is also personal preference, but it must turn at a rate of ~800-1000 RPM. The factory tool is an inline grip. I used a pistol grip simply because I found a deal that I could not refuse. You'll need a BIG compressor or else you'll have to take breaks to let the air build back up. Ideally, think about a big 80 gallon/220v one that will cost some $$$$, but will run everything you'd want it to. I've used a 30-gal and it gets annoying. This is one reason to go for an electric tool, but pneumatic will give you longer life.

6) A little practice makes perfect. And nothing beats practicing on a panel that you don't care about before you offer a spinning sander up to a real panel.

7) Easy does it. There's no need to jam the tool down as you're sanding - just let the brushes gently touch the surface and the tool will do the rest.

That's all that comes to mind. Sure, it's an expensive tool for something that most people won't use too frequently. But, you'll use it more than you think (like taking the marks out from behind those awful early-style black locks - it takes about 5 seconds to get that done.)

Good luck!
Travis

[Delorean02378]

Travis I sure am glad you live 20 minutes from me. :yesss: 04389 needs some regraining.


Kirk

[DeloreanJoshQ]

Will this drill work fine?

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00926567000P?prdNo=48&blockNo=48&blockType=G48

[Nicholas R]

Will this drill work fine?

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00926567000P?prdNo=48&blockNo=48&blockType=G48

That drill should be fine. The biggest issue I had when I first bought mine was finding a drill in my house with a big enough chuck. Luckily I did have one that went up to .5"

The shaft on the wheel is .375". That drill goes up to .5" so it should work.
4026

If I recall correctly, when I bought mine a few years ago, I bought I bought it directly from wolf head, but I had to actually call them up and order it out of a catalog. I remember it being around $100.

[Ryan King]

Can anyone produce a link to the page where you can buy the wheels for future reference?

A link to the online catalog?

So far I have heard about 100 dollars approximately for a wolf head wheel that will get the job done?

[DeloreanJoshQ]

Can anyone produce a link to the page where you can buy the wheels for future reference?

A link to the online catalog?

So far I have heard about 100 dollars approximately for a wolf head wheel that will get the job done?

http://www.gandpmachinery.com/wolfheadwheels.html

[Delorean Industries]

If you are not confident that you know how to use the flap wheel do not take it to a panel on your car. It is best to practice and learn the required pressure, speed etc on a junk panel. Unless you are using the factory regulated tool there is no method to observe due to everyone using a different power unit. Its trial and error at its worst. I would strongly suggest sticking to manual methods such as sand paper and scotch brite pads. We only break out the wheel when its really bad. Our best grain jobs are done by hand.

[DeloreanJoshQ]

This panel is what I will be practicing on...needs a little work....

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/263309_10150718996390696_671145695_19874688_125104 3_n.jpg

Also, I called and talked to Jim @ GMP and the 12 brush wheel setup is $185 and the aluminum oxide abrasive strip loads are $13.50 each. This is for a 2" wide wheel with standard trim brushes and 1/4" cut (they dont have 1/8" in stock as mentioned in previous post). He said it wouldn't make a difference for our application. He also said they have plenty in stock.

-JQ

[Nicholas R]

This panel is what I will be practicing on...needs a little work....
:hippo:

You should be able buff that out with a flap wheel.

Obviously there is *some* risk of screwing up, but honestly as long as you keep the wheel facing the right direction, you're likely not going to damage it. Just start lightly and increase pressure as you feel is necessary. It's really just something you have to feel out. The only part that I would say is difficult is around the outward flares on the fenders at the wheel wells. This area REALLY makes you want to turn the wheel askew, away from parallel with the grain. It's REALLY important that you hold the wheel rock solid going in the proper direction in this area. My first time doing my right front, I goofed it up a little. Good news is, I was holding a flap wheel and went back over it; now it looks awesome! (though the flap wheel is never the last step, then there's blending pads, sanding blocks, and scotch brite pads)

[DeloreanJoshQ]

Here is the drill I ended up getting:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00910137000P?prdNo=10&blockNo=10&blockType=G10

http://s.shld.net/is/image/Sears/9990000037130011

On sale for $59.49; has all of the features needed and works for all of my other projects as well.

So for $250-$300 investment total, The wolf's head wheel/drill combo should bring great results if used correctly.

[GS450-Junkie]

I bet if a lot of people order the wolf head wheel, the price will continue to creep up on them.

[outatym2001]

Can anyone produce a link to the page where you can buy the wheels for future reference?

A link to the online catalog?

I already provided a link to the Wolfhead wheel in my thread below. But, now when I try the link it does not work. I hate it when that happens.
What I should have done is provide a link to the G & P Machinery web site then asked people to look for the product called Wolfhead.

My Favorite DeLorean Web Sites Part II of II.
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?198-My-Favorite-DeLorean-Web-Sites-Part-II-of-II.

[DeloreanJoshQ]

For future reference, if anyone wants one of these set ups:

Call:
Grinding & Polishing Machinery Co.
2801 Tobey Dr.
Indianapolis, Indiana, 46219
Phone: 317-898-0750
Fax: 317-899-1627

Place order with Larry Hardin (President). Larry is very familiar with Delorean owners and immediately identified me without even mentioning what I was doing.

#1 Part Number SH-1062-2" (price as of today is $195)
- This is the 1/2 chuck size 2" wide 12-brush head. 3/8 chuck size is also available, call for part number.

#2 Part Number L-021006022 is the 60-grit load of aluminum oxide strips (current price $14) 80-grit is also available-call for part number.
- I bought 3 loads to keep me busy for a while.

Larry said it normally takes about 5-7 business days to get the parts in and then ship from Indianapolis, IN.

[David T]

For future reference, if anyone wants one of these set ups:

Call:
Grinding & Polishing Machinery Co.
2801 Tobey Dr.
Indianapolis, Indiana, 46219
Phone: 317-898-0750
Fax: 317-899-1627

Place order with Larry Hardin (President). Larry is very familiar with Delorean owners and immediately identified me without even mentioning what I was doing.

#1 Part Number SH-1062-2" (price as of today is $195)
- This is the 1/2 chuck size 2" wide 12-brush head. 3/8 chuck size is also available, call for part number.

#2 Part Number L-021006022 is the 60-grit load of aluminum oxide strips (current price $14) 80-grit is also available-call for part number.
- I bought 3 loads to keep me busy for a while.

Larry said it normally takes about 5-7 business days to get the parts in and then ship from Indianapolis, IN.

I agree with Josh. Before you use a power tool you should learn this art manually. Pressure, speed, and direction is VERY difficult to learn all at once especially with a power tool. Unless you are regraining a car that was painted and had it's graining obliterated you can do the job by hand. It may take longer but you can do as good as or better than with power tools. Using an electric drill is not the best idea. Especially a cheap one. It's speed will vary a lot with pressure, just another variable you must learn to control. Another problem when using power tools is the temptation to use too high a speed. Too easy to do. An air-powered tool is the way to go but they are expensive.

[jgarland79]

I requested pricing and they emailed me this PDF.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1MGSXk_1cE-X0FjbVJkOUtrWE4xTEM5NXdsU1pqRzNjNG80/view?usp=sharing

[mluder]

I requested pricing and they emailed me this PDF.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1MGSXk_1cE-X0FjbVJkOUtrWE4xTEM5NXdsU1pqRzNjNG80/view?usp=sharing

If I recall you want the VONNEGUT - PORTABLE - 12 BRUSH HEADS 2" standard brush head model which is SH-1062. Mine has the 3/8" male adapter that I chuck into the previously mentioned Craftsman drill.
You'll also need to order the sandpaper loads - 60 or 80 grit - I don't recall what's recommended.

I have had decent success with it - I haven't done any damage yet - however it takes quite a bit of practice. I seem to be getting some slight diagonal scratch marks that I cant seem to figure out. It's like most if the grain is straight but then there's a couple little scratches slightly angled. I don't know if it's technique on my part or how I have the loads set up in the wheel. Haven't been able to get any advice from others on how to correct. Maybe that's normal and corrected once you finish with the blending pads... Not sure.

Cheer
Steven