Help....Not starting..

[Lwanmtr]

Ok I've tested my pressure its within limits..have gas in the tank, no leaks anywhere. Had my CPR rebuilt at DMCNW.
I can dump starter fluid into it and it tries to start, but cant keep going. If I let it sit with the ignition on for a bit, it sometimes tries to start
momentarily, but then just cant.

Im getting at my wits end...Not sure where this leads...fuel lines? electrical issue?

Any local folks super savvy on these?

[Bitsyncmaster]

See if it will start by putting the connector off the CPR onto the CSV (cold start valve). If that helps it's probably your CSV circuit not working.

[Lwanmtr]

Tried that, same thing...it fires up on the initial burst of gas the pump dumps...but wont keep going

[Bitsyncmaster]

So you have primary pressure of 70 to 80 PSI? Does it hold rest pressure of about 40 PSI?

If so, next I would suggest you pull the injectors and test that they all spray fuel. It's best to put all 6 in jars because when you run the fuel pump, press the air plate down, they should spray a lot of fuel (about 6 oz. each in a minuet).

[Lwanmtr]

When it stops raining...lol ....and after i find 6 jars.

Should I crank the engine or just turn it on?

[Ron]

You might want to pull a few easy to get to injectors for a quick (few seconds) no fuel/fuel test since some are a PITA to pull (for nothing ;-)
Keep in mind that the ones you don't pull may be flooding their cylinders.

Don't crank on it with any injectors pulled, jump the RPM relay instead...the HOW TO HERE (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?46-How-To-Test-fuel-injector-spray-patterns) should have all the info you need for either test.

Let us know if unclear or ??

[Bitsyncmaster]

When it stops raining...lol ....and after i find 6 jars.

Should I crank the engine or just turn it on?

You just need to jumper the RPM relay socket (brown wire to the white/purple wire) no need for the key to be on.

You do that to read primary pressure. When you remove the jumper you can read rest pressure. For flow testing the injectors, you have the jumper installed when doing that.

[Lwanmtr]

Ok, we had a break in the rain.

Is there a trick to pulling the injectors? Special tool or something? I tried pulling them, but didnt want to get too nuts and risk damaging any of them.

[Lwanmtr]

I got a couple out and checked them (couldnt get a my short allen wrench on the other clips)....

I got a gradual increase in spray as I pushed down on the plunger....only had good spray when it was all the way open.

[Ron]

A HD coat hanger with a 1/4" 90° turn on it works pretty good.

Check this link out (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSLcEwdX3ns) for an idea of what to expect. His are basically crapper as you go from left to right.

=====

I'd say pull ALL the plugs to make sure they aren't fowled (fuel or otherwise). Double check firing order..) then put it ALL back together. Next have a helper turn the key on. Push the plate down quickly once and release immediately, then have helper crank it over while you hold the plate down ~1./4" (all depends ;-) and the throttle ~1/4 way open...ya have to play with it. Once you hit the right combo it will hopefully start and you can tell a lot more about what is going on with it. Obviously, if it don't fire up, the engine will flood....

[Lwanmtr]

I couldnt tell from the video...is it normal for the flow from the injectors to be slow until the plunger is all the way open?

[Ron]

Try this one. Short but easier to see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPHYMhzuAj8

P.S. I was editing post #10....

[David T]

Try this one. Short but easier to see:"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPHYMhzuAj8

The injectors should be able to spray in a pattern, not streams, even at low levels. Sounds like they all need to be cleaned.Can only be done properly in an injector tester/cleaner.

[Ron]

The injectors should be able to spray in a pattern, not streams, even at low levels. Sounds like they all need to be cleaned.Can only be done properly in an injector tester/cleaner. +1 But I don't see where he got streams??

=====

FWIW- If you are getting streams and don't want to go with new one$, David can test and try to clean yours for a very reasonable price.
He hooked me up (including printed results for each injector etc on several sets).

[Lwanmtr]

Ill have to look at the rest, but yeah Im guessing they all need flushed. What places do that kind of cleaning?

Im still wondering if the stream should change based on the plunger being open a little or full?

[Ron]

Im still wondering if the stream should change based on the plunger being open a little or full?

Yes...The 'volume' or 'flow' should change. The spray pattern should have a conical shape, which should get larger as the 'plate' opens (goes down) and presses the plunger inside the fuel distributor.

If it doesn't 'spray' and you have 'streams' instead, then the injectors need to be cleaned or replaced.

[Lwanmtr]

it doesnt get a good shape until fully open..before that it streams.

Also notice there is some black stuff around the opening..but the fuel seems to be coming out clean

[David T]

The fuel is supposed to atomize into fine droplets even if the air sensor plate is open just a little bit. The further the air sensor plate opens the more fuel is supposed to come out in proportion to the more air passing by the sensor plate. All of the injectors are supposed to start spraying at the same pressure and each should have a good pattern of atomized droplets and pass equal amounts of fuel. Most of the time they can be successfully cleaned. All of the vendors can do it.

[Lwanmtr]

Thanks..answers that clearly...they dont atomize at all until its almost all the way..just kinda starts out peein and works its way to atomize..lol

Ill call DMCNW and see what they want to do it. Would be nice if they werent an hour away...but Im sure a local porsche or merc dealer would want
more..lol

[David T]

Thanks..answers that clearly...they dont atomize at all until its almost all the way..just kinda starts out peein and works its way to atomize..lol

Ill call DMCNW and see what they want to do it. Would be nice if they werent an hour away...but Im sure a local porsche or merc dealer would want
more..lol

You might be able to find a Volvo dealer that still has a tester/cleaner. Or you can just ship them out. If the seals are very hard (not rubbery anymore) get new ones. You should also get some new copper seals. Replace any broken or missing spring clips.

[Lwanmtr]

Running to DMCNW tomorrow, Toby said he can have a go at cleaning them.

Yeah, good idea I'll check those when I pull the injectors.

Hopefully this gets it running enough to at least get the car up to them....Im running outta ideas...lol

[Lwanmtr]

Ok....Anyone have any good tips on removing the #4 injector, on the driver side front? Do I have to take off all that stuff blocking it?

[Lwanmtr]

Got them all out.....Though would still appreciate any tips/suggestions/etc on getting that #4 back in after cleaning....

Here's a lil shot....Yeah, I think they needs a lil cleanin'

36891

[sdg3205]

Holy smokes those are gummy.

[Lwanmtr]

Hehe...just a lil. The car sat for 15 years before I got it..no idea if they had ever been cleaned before.

Im hoping they're cleanable and that I wont have to shell out $80 each to replace any of them.

[sdg3205]

Hehe...just a lil. The car sat for 15 years before I got it..no idea if they had ever been cleaned before.

Im hoping they're cleanable and that I wont have to shell out $80 each to replace any of them.

At least you're not Canadian. Can you imagine paying $750 for a set of new injectors?

[Lwanmtr]

Ouch! Thats pretty high.

[David T]

Ouch! Thats pretty high.

You really can't go by the external appearance. How it squirts is all important and since you said it sat for 15 years you may not be able to save any of them. Certainly worth trying though.

[Lwanmtr]

Got the Injectors cleaned..one needed replacing..ahh well, coulda been worse...

Now, however, its acting like no spark..lol. Its like a game of dominos...

Anyhow...now I have to see if I can wrangle someone to help check spark at the plugs, etc....

Given that it sat for 15 years...what are the most likely things I'll need to replace..cap, rotor, coil? Are these things that Oreily's or Autozone would have?

[David T]

Got the Injectors cleaned..one needed replacing..ahh well, coulda been worse...

Now, however, its acting like no spark..lol. Its like a game of dominos...

Anyhow...now I have to see if I can wrangle someone to help check spark at the plugs, etc....

Given that it sat for 15 years...what are the most likely things I'll need to replace..cap, rotor, coil? Are these things that Oreily's or Autozone would have?

No spark is most commonly caused by bad connections in the primary circuit. First place to check is the connections on the ballast resistor. If it sat for 15 years and you flooded it with the bad injectors you probably fouled the plugs. Pull them and either replace them or clean them up and regap them. Check the oil level and coolant. Once you get the motor running and warmed up flush and replace the oil, oil filter and coolant.

[Lwanmtr]

Yeah, plugs could be fouled up. Distributor could be....yada, yada.

Oil is new. As is tranny fluid

I checked the resistor connections, they're clean and good connection. Wasnt sure how to measure them..what the numbers should be.

My goal is to get it running so that I can get it up to DMCNW and they can go through it and help me bring it back to stock without all the insane
cuts and unknown connectors...PO was a madman

[Ron]

Did you check for spark at the coil wire?

[Lwanmtr]

Still trying to find an assistant...nunna me friends seem to wanna help :/

[Ron]

I can tell you how to do it by yourself, if you have some long wire ??

[Lwanmtr]

I have long wire..though not heavy guage

[Ron]

stick or auto trans?

[Lwanmtr]

auto

[Ron]

Set the park brake!
Put in PARK. Double check!!!
Disconnect battery.
Get a piece of wire long enough to go from the starter White/Red solenoid wire to the jump post on the passenger side pontoon.
Pull the coil wire and put a spark plug in it. (If possible, use a spare spark plug wire so you don't have to mess with the distributor cap end.)
Place the spark plug where its body is grounded (ideally to the block) and you can see the gap.
Make sure everything is clear of the engine's moving parts!
Connect battery.
Now tap the wire from the starter to the jump post just long enough to make certain it is out of gear, etc. for safety!
If everything OK, turn key to RUN.
Touch the wire to the jump post (it will spark a bit) and see if the plug is firing.

PM me your phone if ya want, I'm loafing right now lol

[Lwanmtr]

Got a friend (finally) to help me check...gettin spark.

She tried to go..alot more than she has yet... Charging the battery and going to replace plugs.

[David T]

Got a friend (finally) to help me check...gettin spark.

She tried to go..alot more than she has yet... Charging the battery and going to replace plugs.

Your Cold Start Valve may not be working. That will make it harder to get the motor started. Try a SMALL shot of Ether and hold the air sensor plate down till you can verify (and fix if necessary) the CSV.

[Lwanmtr]

Noob Q....where is the cold start valve?

Pulled the plugs (cept #4..thats a pain in the butt)..few were blackend..so tomorrow Ill get new plugs and begin again..hehe

[MNT250]

36922

Funny running into you the other day. Found this online, hope you can get it running!

[Lwanmtr]

Ahh ok. How do you test that?

Hehe...yeah. that was funny..Was actually talking about red delorean with Toby before you showed up...hehe

[Lwanmtr]

Sooooo....

Injectors cleaned / replaced....new spark plugs...rebuilt CPR....

Still doesnt want to run...

Had a friend helping today. Its seeming to be running extremely rich..doesnt get enough air unless the plunger is all the way open..and even then its not enough
to actually get a good start.

So Im looking at CSV or Fuel Distributor...

Any way to test CSV? I'd rather not replace if I dont have to, given that DMC charges $189 for it.

What to test on Fuel Distributor?
I did see a rebuild kit http://salvox.com/products.php?40 Anyone have any opinions on these? $90 is alot better than $495 that DMC charges for a new one.

Still havent ruled out wacky electicals....

[Ron]

Still doesnt want to run...

Had a friend helping today. Its seeming to be running extremely rich..doesnt get enough air unless the plunger is all the way open..and even then its not enough
to actually get a good start.
If you mean pressing the plate down, that gives it more fuel...


So Im looking at CSV or Fuel Distributor...

Any way to test CSV?
Remove it and put it in a container. If the engine is cold, it should spray fuel while you crank the engine over, at first. After a few tries, a heating element will get hot enough to turn it off to prevent flooding.


What to test on Fuel Distributor?
I did see a rebuild kit http://salvox.com/products.php?40 Anyone have any opinions on these? $90 is alot better than $495 that DMC charges for a new one.A basic test is similar to the injector test you did... You should get about an ounce or so more from each line with the injectors off (~7oz ea).

FWIW- A lot of people report having problems with leaks after taking the fuel distributor apart.

[Lwanmtr]

Thought that gave it more air..i get it now.

I'll check CSBV tomorrow.

Should I remove the injectors from the lines, or just put the lines/injectors in jars?

Yeah, I can imagine if it's not precise that a kit could leak..just looking at the kit, there's alot of pieces. Just looking at a worse case if fuel dist is bad...and well
$495 is a bit high for me atm.

[Ron]

Should I remove the injectors from the lines, or just put the lines/injectors in jars?
I'd try it with them on again first and compare since you have done a lot since...
Easy enough to take them off afterwards if need be.


Yeah, I can imagine if it's not precise that a kit could leak..just looking at the kit, there's alot of pieces. Just looking at a worse case if fuel dist is bad...and well
$495 is a bit high for me atm.Don't let me discourage you!...I meant that mainly as a heads-up.
Main thing is you have to have it perfectly clean and not get any sealant you might use in a very tiny PITA hole... All cart before the horse right now lol

[Lwanmtr]

Yeah...not discouraged at all. Ill know more after tomorrow's little exploration (hopefully).

Almost at that point where I'm gonna use some of my aaa miles and get her towed up to DMCNW

There's also a local shop that works on cis injection, so ill try and pick their brain too

[Lwanmtr]

Im boggled....

Everything points to it should be starting..spark, fuel, hamsters...even checked that the injectors were opening when they should..yep.

It tries to go...just doesnt grab.

Been through what I can (given my inexperience with these cars and injection system)..friends around here dont know the k-jet either.
I'd love to have an experienced person pay a visit (free twinkies and coffee)..otherwise I'm gonna just set up to have it hauled up to DMCNW for a get-running surgery.