Ooze Theory?

[sdg3205]

So I was looking at a barn find car last week. It has not "run" since 1999.

We know a little snotty condensation under the oil fill cap is relatively normal, but as Toby informed me - the car has to be running for the condition to occur. Makes sense. Now this is a LOT of goop! It looks like Shrek blew his nose into the oil fill spout.

Toby recommended I get an oil sample via the drain plug, however the car was 400 miles from home and I did not think to bring my drain plug tool, nor was the car easy to move; it had 4 flat tires, seized brakes and it was up against the corner of the barn.

Since oil is denser than water, hypothetically, if there was coolant in the oil, the coolant would be the first to exit. Unfortunately the best I could do is coax a teaspoon of sample out the dip stick by removing the dipstick and wiping it into a container over and over again.

Blackstone Labs (http://www.blackstone-labs.com) has said that is all the oil they need to test for coolant, which is great, so I'll get their analysis in probably a month. In the meantime, does this scream blown head gasket or piston skirt failure to anyone?

37078370793708037081

[Bitsyncmaster]

I had a car with a thermostat set to low and it looked like your photos. With a faulty thermostat or one set to low the moisture never boils out of the oil.

[sdg3205]

I had a car with a thermostat set to low and it looked like your photos. With a faulty thermostat or one set to low the moisture never boils out of the oil.

Well, thats not so bad! Well, less bad :) Still pretty ugly in there.

[DMCVegas]

Blown Head Gasket. I know this because my car has the same thing.

That engine has overheated pretty good. We know this because of two things:

The Oil Filter Screen is Missing. (it melts and deforms very easily as a tell-tale sign)
The amount of goop in there.


Chances are too that the Front Main Seal has also blown out, and you've probably got oil behind the crankshaft and on the muffler. Once excess exhaust pressure builds up in the crank case, raw oil gets pushed out of that seal (if the Rear Main isn't already gone), and the vapor and nasty oil mixture gets sucked up into the intake via the Filler Neck as the Crank Case Gasses ventilate into the Intake Manifold to be burned.

Don't waste your time with having the oil or coolant checked. There are other ways such as pressure testing the cooling system (though it may be too far rotted to tell from it's age), and then to perform a compression test on the engine itself.

Honestly though, this is a HUGE risk! You don't know how far gone the damage to this engine is. And sitting with heavy water condensate for the past 15 years isn't a good thing for the internals. Best case scenario: It's a desert car that has long since dried out, minimal internal damage, and minor warping of the Cylinder Heads. In that case, tear it apart, clean it, rebuild it, shave the heads, and install some performance cams to accommodate the new offsets. Worse case: You're gonna need a new engine.

If you're wanting this car, be aware that this is going to be some intense work. But if you do want to proceed, be gentile and realize the seller may just be embarrassed. Remain nice and give them a chance to come clean. Then kindly ask for about $5,000 of the asking price, because that is what you're going to spend just on the engine alone.

[sdg3205]

Blown Head Gasket. I know this because my car has the same thing.

That engine has overheated pretty good. We know this because of two things:

The Oil Filter Screen is Missing. (it melts and deforms very easily as a tell-tale sign)
The amount of goop in there.


Chances are too that the Front Main Seal has also blown out, and you've probably got oil behind the crankshaft and on the muffler. Once excess exhaust pressure builds up in the crank case, raw oil gets pushed out of that seal (if the Rear Main isn't already gone), and the vapor and nasty oil mixture gets sucked up into the intake via the Filler Neck as the Crank Case Gasses ventilate into the Intake Manifold to be burned.

Don't waste your time with having the oil or coolant checked. There are other ways such as pressure testing the cooling system (though it may be too far rotted to tell from it's age), and then to perform a compression test on the engine itself.

Honestly though, this is a HUGE risk! You don't know how far gone the damage to this engine is. And sitting with heavy water condensate for the past 15 years isn't a good thing for the internals. Best case scenario: It's a desert car that has long since dried out, minimal internal damage, and minor warping of the Cylinder Heads. In that case, tear it apart, clean it, rebuild it, shave the heads, and install some performance cams to accommodate the new offsets. Worse case: You're gonna need a new engine.

If you're wanting this car, be aware that this is going to be some intense work. But if you do want to proceed, be gentile and realize the seller may just be embarrassed. Remain nice and give them a chance to come clean. Then kindly ask for about $5,000 of the asking price, because that is what you're going to spend just on the engine alone.

Yup. This.

I have no problem purchasing the car as essentially an "engine-less car." As this would be my 6th restoration, I'm also not chaffing at the bit like a brand-spanking new potential owner might be.

Here's the story. Ready for a mind blowing surprise? The owner thinks its a gold mine. He wants $15k for it. Even if the engine was mechanically sound my offer would only be 10k given what needs to be done. Without an engine my offer would be $5,000. His son (who showed me the car) is storing it for him and he wants it gone, so thats the only things working to my advantage.

EDIT - and yes Rob, there is a lot of oil sprayed around the front of the engine and bell housing.

[DMCVegas]

Yup. This.

I have no problem purchasing the car as essentially an "engine-less car." As this would be my 6th restoration, I'm also not chaffing at the bit like a brand-spanking new potential owner might be.

Here's the story. Ready for a mind blowing surprise? The owner thinks its a gold mine. He wants $15k for it. Even if the engine was mechanically sound my offer would only be 10k given what needs to be done. Without an engine my offer would be $5,000. His son (who showed me the car) is storing it for him and he wants it gone, so thats the only things working to my advantage.

EDIT - and yes Rob, there is a lot of oil sprayed around the front of the engine and bell housing.

Yeah, so you know whats up. I also looked at that picture of the inside of the oil filler neck again. That is a serious amount of rust up top, and makes me worry about the inside of the engine. Since you've got somewhat of an "in" with the son, that's your best bet to get the car at a reasonable price.

The only time that I've ever seen something like this much goop/ooze being normal on an engine is with the Chrysler PowerTech engines. They had a horrible design where the cap was elevated too far above the PCV inlet in an area that never warmed up in very cold areas. The "fix" was an insert to directly divert gasses into the inlet. But that didn't always work. With other cars, the caps sit close to the valve covers to stay hot. With the DeLorean though, the gasses of course pass directly through the oil filler cap to dump into the airbox. Now you might just see a few drops or a tiny sheen up around the tip-top of the cap where the neck & cap stay cold. But nothing like this. Plus like I said, the filler screen is gone. That is ALWAYS the largest red flag ever.

I have some side by side pictures at home of my good engine and my bad engine with the blown headgasket. I'll post them later. It should be a good primer for other buyers to help identify engine problems.

The other thing to take note of is how the stuff looks. When oil mixes with, say regular water like in a differential, it turns brown. People will normally tell you that it looks like "Chocolate Milk", and this is what they're referring to:
http://image.fourwheeler.com/f/65358310+w600+cr1/draining-differential-fluid

When the oil however mixes with engine coolant, that's a whole other story. In that case, like you have here, it turns a white to yellowish-white shade that resembles pus.
http://www.offroaders.com/tech/images/milky-oil-cap.jpg

For everyone reading this, never EVER simply go by the whole "looks like chocolate" milk thing alone.

[PJ Grady Inc.]

So I was looking at a barn find car last week. It has not "run" since 1999.

We know a little snotty condensation under the oil fill cap is relatively normal, but as Toby informed me - the car has to be running for the condition to occur. Makes sense. Now this is a LOT of goop! It looks like Shrek blew his nose into the oil fill spout.

Toby recommended I get an oil sample via the drain plug, however the car was 400 miles from home and I did not think to bring my drain plug tool, nor was the car easy to move; it had 4 flat tires, seized brakes and it was up against the corner of the barn.

Since oil is denser than water, hypothetically, if there was coolant in the oil, the coolant would be the first to exit. Unfortunately the best I could do is coax a teaspoon of sample out the dip stick by removing the dipstick and wiping it into a container over and over again.

Blackstone Labs (http://www.blackstone-labs.com) has said that is all the oil they need to test for coolant, which is great, so I'll get their analysis in probably a month. In the meantime, does this scream blown head gasket or piston skirt failure to anyone?

37078370793708037081

At best this is blown head gaskets combined with enough water to rust internal engine parts. At worst the block and heads are warped beyond repair. When buying this car it is safer to assume the latter rather than the former. Proceed with an offer based on needing a longblock. Judging from the engine alone the car is an abused toad that suffered from abuse and neglect. The "gold mine" belongs to whoever gets paid to fix it or in your case supplies you the parts for the job! I'd be more than happy to assist you.
Rob

[sdg3205]

Thanks rob. Good to know as much as possible.

[DMCVegas]

Agreed. Very good to know. Thank you!

Out of curiosity though, what could be salvaged internally from an engine in this condition? I have a spare engine to drop in, but I'm wondering if the ruined one might not just be so far gone physically or financially that it's better off being turned into a new table and a crankshaft bar stool.