Please change you tires!!

[Chris Burns]

These were NCT radials.

[Dangermouse]

I have that problem with pine needles too.




oh, wait........

[DMCVegas]

I'm really curious as to what happened here, and why 35 year-old tires are still in service.

[Chris Burns]

DMC TX posted this on FB awhile ago. One of their customers I would guess.

[DMC3165]

Just curious. The current tires on my D are 5 years old and have 28,xxx miles on them. They have good tread left and get used at least twice a month. Should they be changed based on age or tread? How long should they last for?

[Jonathan]

I'm really curious as to what happened here...

Ran over a porcupine from the looks of it!

[vwdmc16]

Regardless of the amount of use, tires are highly recommend to be changed every 7 years. That sounds super short to many but there is reason for that. Doesn't matter if its a stored classic or your daily driver if you want to be safe, they need to be kept fresh.



Just curious. The current tires on my D are 5 years old and have 28,xxx miles on them. They have good tread left and get used at least twice a month. Should they be changed based on age or tread? How long should they last for?

[Jimmyvonviggle]

While some look at this as a negative, I think it's a clever way to regrain your fenders.

[DMCVegas]

Regardless of the amount of use, tires are highly recommend to be changed every 7 years. That sounds super short to many but there is reason for that. Doesn't matter if its a stored classic or your daily driver if you want to be safe, they need to be kept fresh.

Agreed. This absolutely cannot be stressed enough. Once tires hit 7 years of age, they absolutely, positively must go. This goes for both your regular tires, as well as your spare. If you're not sure about the age of the tires, this is how you can determine them:

37165

That last 4 digit code is imperative to verifying your tires have been recently manufactured. You don't want to roll around on old tires. You also cannot go by just looks alone. I've dealt with used tires in the past. Ones that still had decent tread on them, and looked great. Then after a few washes and a couple of weeks, they look like garbage because whatever thick dressing they put on the sidewalls to cover up the rot and damage has since washed off. Then I discovered that I bought 5-7 year old tires... So learn from me, and know that while a visual inspection is important, you can't go by it alone.

Likewise, you ALWAYS want to be sure that aside from the date, you also see that DOT stamp on the side to show that you've got legitimate tires. I actually have had counterfeit tires in the past, and I can tell you that they're not fun when they explode on the highway at speed before you can pull over, and then crunch both your fender as well as your rocker panel. So be diligent in both replacing your tires when they're old, buying them from a reputable source, and then inspecting every single tire if you ever buy a used car (which is how I wound up with fake tires).

Look at the price of a new tire. Now compare that to the price of a repair for a fender or quarter panel, let alone the replacement cost of one. I'm certain that the tire is cheaper, and would be the preferred route to go.

[DMCMW Dave]

I'm really curious as to what happened here, and why 35 year-old tires are still in service.

Because people do that. We easily replace 15-20 sets of them every year.

[DMCVegas]

Because people do that. We easily replace 15-20 sets of them every year.

https://perrystreetpalace.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/facepalm.jpg

I don't know how in the hell you deal with steady stream of morons of that caliber.

Side note: While I wouldn't dare drive on them, I'd really like to rip the steel belts out of an old NCT or two to make some DeLorean huaraches and a belt out of them.

[Chris4099]

I did a caravan with a new club member last month. When we met up, I noticed they still had the original NCTs too! Once we hit the road, it was a long 200 miles with me constantly looking in my rear view mirror making sure they were still on the road. They returned just fine, but fortunately took my advice and got new tires right away. They never heard of changing tires based on age. They thought since there was still tread left on the NCTs, they were just fine.

[David T]

I was driving on NCT's till they were 15 years old. They looked fine! When I found out about the 7 year rule I got scared and changed them. When I put the new tires on it was like driving a whole different car! Those old tires gave a terrible ride, like driving on round rocks! Any bump shook the car. Now it handles well, absorbs bumps, and I am not worried about them shredding. I just replaced the spare too. Tires do NOT age well.

[Dangermouse]

[don't know how in the hell you deal with steady stream of morons of that caliber.
.

That's probably a bit strong.

I would imagine most drivers aren't aware of age related issues with tires or even date codes unless they happen to have a classic car.

The vast majority of tires are worn through well before they get to 6 or 7 years old, probably mostly due to tracking and uneven wear so it would never be a topic that would come up.

I don't think there is even anything in a cars manual in the recommended maintenance interval section.

I know that I was unaware of it before i got my D.

[Nicholas R]

I think this is a negative side effect of the concourse mentality. Even if the car isn't really a concourse car, there is this idea that having the original tires somehow makes it more original and more valuable. "Even has the original NCTs!"-Not a value increaser in my book. The only excuse for NCTs to me is if you trailer a concourse car to a judged show with them, or you swap them out at the show. Its ridiculous to trade the safety of you and your car for some worthless judging or assumed originality points.

[Bitsyncmaster]

That's probably a bit strong.

I would imagine most drivers aren't aware of age related issues with tires or even date codes unless they happen to have a classic car.

The vast majority of tires are worn through well before they get to 6 or 7 years old, probably mostly due to tracking and uneven wear so it would never be a topic that would come up.

I don't think there is even anything in a cars manual in the recommended maintenance interval section.

I know that I was unaware of it before i got my D.

+1

Even if you stick to the 7 year rule, that is probably biased on the short side (tire manufactures want to sell more tires) and they want to cover worst case (car sits in the sun every day).

[DMCVegas]

That's probably a bit strong.

I would imagine most drivers aren't aware of age related issues with tires or even date codes unless they happen to have a classic car.

The vast majority of tires are worn through well before they get to 6 or 7 years old, probably mostly due to tracking and uneven wear so it would never be a topic that would come up.

I don't think there is even anything in a cars manual in the recommended maintenance interval section.

I know that I was unaware of it before i got my D.

I honestly do think it's a bit strong at all. Owning a car comes with many responsibilities, and merely being able to afford the costs of having someone else cover maintenance and repairs (warranty or otherwise) does NOT excuse you from the responsibilities of owning a car. Not just a classic car, but any vehicle. Just because you even leased a car and never have to pay for the maintenance or repairs of the vehicle as they're under warranty, that doesn't mean that you're exempt from responsibly taking care of the car. I know that educating consumers isn't in car manufacturers' best interests. They prefer to keep pushing this image that all you need are keys and a credit card to buy gas to go as long as possible. But in reality that's just not the case.
My wife for example, in stark contrast to my upbringing, was not raised in a family of car enthusiasts. And when I met her, she didn't know how to change a tire, but believe it or not she DID know that you shouldn't drive on old tires, and actually knew how to read the manufacturing dates on the sidewall!

Awareness of tire problems has been going on now for about 20 years in the public's eye. It really started with the Wilderness A/T's on the Ford Explorers that suffered from tread separating. But it was a couple of years later that there was a large wreck in New York state back in the late 1990's that really brought the age factor to light. Somewhere in the DML archives is a link (though who knows if it's even good any more) about a story where some guy was driving with his long-term girlfriend in his classic car that had 20+ year old tires on it that were made sometime back in the 1970's. Long story short, he had a tread separation, and in the confusion managed to flip the car. His girlfriend was seriously hurt, and I believe that she actually sued him in court over those tires. That was the point where news agencies started reporting on Tire Age, and awareness really spread.



Even if you stick to the 7 year rule, that is probably biased on the short side (tire manufactures want to sell more tires) and they want to cover worst case (car sits in the sun every day).

It's not that tires can go longer, it's more like they're more apt to go bad quicker.

Now yes, I know that tire and rubber manufacturers refuse to commit to a specific age, and have left it up to car manufactures to advise people on what age to replace tires. As they say, there is no definitive formula to commit to for determining the specific age in which a tire should be used. They really just fall back upon inspection, and let the responsibility fall onto the consumer. They do advise though that environmental factors can determine the age. Yes, that is true. I've seen tires in Houston that have lasted 8+ years with no discernible problems. And in Vegas I would get about 4-5 years of use out of person tires, where my fleet truck would only see about 3 before they would dry-rot so severely that they became a hazard. Where you live, how you maintain them, and what kind of harsh chemicals you spray onto your tires for cleaning and/or dressing definitely impacts their life span.

In any case though, you've got to not only replace your tires, but people really need to understand their vehicles and responsibilities better. No matter what they drive.

[valdez]

These were NCT radials.

Still holds air and even has the new tire hairs on it! I don't see the problem. The hairs will wear off eventually.

[Dangermouse]

I honestly do think it's a bit strong at all. Owning a car comes with many responsibilities, and merely being able to afford the costs of having someone else cover maintenance and repairs (warranty or otherwise) does NOT excuse you from the responsibilities of owning a car. Not just a classic car, but any vehicle. Just because you even leased a car and never have to pay for the maintenance or repairs of the vehicle as they're under warranty, that doesn't mean that you're exempt from responsibly taking care of the car. I know that educating consumers isn't in car manufacturers' best interests. They prefer to keep pushing this image that all you need are keys and a credit card to buy gas to go as long as possible. But in reality that's just not the case.
My wife for example, in stark contrast to my upbringing, was not raised in a family of car enthusiasts. And when I met her, she didn't know how to change a tire, but believe it or not she DID know that you shouldn't drive on old tires, and actually knew how to read the manufacturing dates on the sidewall!

In any case though, you've got to not only replace your tires, but people really need to understand their vehicles and responsibilities better. No matter what they drive.

My point being that most drivers view tires as consumables, like brake pads and clutches. As they have never been in a position where a consumable has outlasted it's shelf life, then they are hardly morons for not knowing that it had a shelf life to start with. Do brake pads age out? Do clutches? Does paint?

Nothing to do with anyones financial means, until it comes to the point where an owner knows they tires are old but can't change them for financial means.

I bought a 2007 BMW from FL, with 75k miles, on it's second set of tires (about 3 years old and 35k miles on them - date code showed they were around 4 years old) Even at that young age, I could see they were dry, cracked and hard(as was every other piece of rubber on the outside of the car). It was easy to see that they were distressed. A new set of tires vastly improved the ride. Conversely, my TR6 has tires that are at least 20 years old and look like new - car doesn't move so it's not an issue.

Incidentally, I just checked that cars manual and BMW recommend changing tires at 6 years, so my comment about car manufacturers manuals was incorrect.

[DMCVegas]

My point being that most drivers view tires as consumables, like brake pads and clutches. As they have never been in a position where a consumable has outlasted it's shelf life, then they are hardly morons for not knowing that it had a shelf life to start with. Do brake pads age out? Do clutches? Does paint?

Nothing to do with anyones financial means, until it comes to the point where an owner knows they tires are old but can't change them for financial means.

I bought a 2007 BMW from FL, with 75k miles, on it's second set of tires (about 3 years old and 35k miles on them - date code showed they were around 4 years old) Even at that young age, I could see they were dry, cracked and hard(as was every other piece of rubber on the outside of the car). It was easy to see that they were distressed. A new set of tires vastly improved the ride. Conversely, my TR6 has tires that are at least 20 years old and look like new - car doesn't move so it's not an issue.

Incidentally, I just checked that cars manual and BMW recommend changing tires at 6 years, so my comment about car manufacturers manuals was incorrect.

Oh no, don't get me wrong, I totally understand what you're saying. Yes, most people don't realize until it's too late that they've got to replace their tires. Hell, I'll do you one better and admit that since engineering technologies have come into play with the mechanical design of vehicles and their mechanical parts, the lifespan of vehicles has greatly been increased to the point where we now see more types of different component failures that otherwise we never would have before. As in, long before the tires wore out, the vehicle would have broken down and not have been drivable anyway. So that risk (and many others) never had the chance to finally come to fruition. So it's not active in peoples' minds.

But yes, I absolutely stand by my words that if you're going to take on the responsibility of car ownership, you absolutely must know what you're getting into. No, nothing ridiculous like knowing what your torque specs are for your individual bolts and such. But yes, you need to understand that vehicles need maintenance, and you must understand the risks of ignoring them. If you run on old, or under-inflated tires because you never bothered to learn about taking care of them, and then they pop to leave you stranded somewhere, you incur minor to moderate body damage, or you wreck and destroy the car or someone else's property, or even hurt or kill someone because of your inattentiveness... That is plain as day your fault.

Every vehicle I've ever owned has had an owner's manual, and I've read it. For the used vehicles I've had in the past that didn't come with one, I ordered them off eBay. There is no excuse NOT to do this with any vehicle, and even many Driver's Handbooks or Manuals that you receive from the State or Provence you reside in when you first received your Driver's License clearly tell you to read your vehicle's Owner's Manual. If you buy a car that doesn't have you, you buy a replacement. That manual tells you, even the DMC-12's Owner's Manual, that you MUST inspect your tires for damage and correct tire pressure, as well as that the tires comply with the tire manufacturer's specifications. At that point you should say to yourself, "Hmm. What brand & model are these tires? Let me contact THAT manufacturer and discover what their specifications are!" And if you call up Goodyear to ask about your 30+ year-old NCT tires, I'm confident that they're going to tell you to replace them since their age has now placed them out of current spec. It's all there, and there is literally no reason that people shouldn't know this because of the chain of instructions starting with our licenses that would have led us to this knowledge.

And yes, brake pads do age out. My Left Front pad disintegrated within the 2nd month of ownership.

[David T]

You expect all of that from the public? The public that forgets to renew their license and registration, get the car inspected, CHECK THE AIR PRESSURE IN THEIR TIRES! Because no one checks their tires anymore the government mandated that cars must now have monitoring so the car will warn you that you are an idiot driving on a flat tire! The last time anyone looked at their tires was to wash them. Now you don't have to change your tire anymore, new cars don't have spares! Nobody remembers to change their oil regularly. I see cars all the time that are leased and the oil was NEVER changed. Most owners don't know how to open their hoods and if they did they would mess things up. About twice a year I see cars where the owner poured windshield washer fluid into the brake system. Why you ask? The message center kept flashing a warning, low fluid. Most owners of older cars DO want to know how to take care of their car and are willing to learn and get their hands dirty, not the general public who will buy a new car and drive it from gas station to gas station never doing anything.

[DMCVegas]

Admittedly I am a realist, and know that it is a bit much to ask. By the same token, perhaps I am also jaded from years of having to mollycoddle some of the most positively stupid people on earth. But I am a firm believer that while understanding and kindness is necessary, just the right amount of shame will prevent someone from making the same mistake twice, as well as preemptively scare others into making sure that they don't do the same stupid things.

This morning, I kid you not, there was a broke down Toyota Land Cruiser in the far left lane ahead of the toll plaza. Shredded rear tire, rubber chunks all around, scrapped wheel, not a pretty sight. And then, there in the drivers seat was a panicked looking woman with her hands up. Looking all around her vehicle, with a cell phone in her hand. I've had blowouts before, and I know they're not pretty nor fun. But you have to have people start taking responsibility for their actions.

I remember one time I had a raditor hose burst. Why? Because I threw an alternator belt, and it cut into the hose. I didn't bother to replace it in a timely fashion, so I had a breakdown. That's my fault. Tow truck driver who came and got my car was talking with me as to what when wrong, and that's what I told him too. As we're driving the guy tells me that he's been driving a tow truck now for about 15 years. Started in San Diego, and over the years I was the 3rd DeLorean he'd ever picked up, but more amazingly was only one of handful of people who had ever taken responsibility for a breakdown. No one ever takes responsibility. Doesn't matter that there is a fuel gauge, people will complain that there isn't a light. And if there is a light, people will complain that they don't have a audible warning. And if there is a chime, it didn't warn them properly because it wasn't serious enough. And according to this guy, people would complain about that. That despite all the warning lights and sirens from low fuel, to no oil, or a bad alternator, it's always the car's fault for not notifying them properly. We should do what we can to put an end to that.

[Rich]

Updating this thread:

A participant at the Concours d' Elegance in Hillsborough, Calif. suffered a blowout as he was driving his entry to the show on the freeway yesterday morning. I didn't hear how fast he was going.

The good news is there was no accident and he was carrying an inflated spare and the tire change gear.

The bad news is he was late to place the car on the field and the car no longer wore matching wheels/tires for the concours judges.

Per the date code the blown Michelin TB5 race tire was made in 2004 - 17 years old.

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=66827&d=1626718520

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=66826&d=1626718430

[David T]

Typically if something happens on the way to a judged event, if you can still get there on time, they do not take off points for things damaged during the trip to the show. This is to encourage cars to come that may not go to shows often. If you are going to keep old tires the car should have been trailered. It is just too dangerous to drive at high speed on old tires.

[Michael]

66828

[MrChocky]

66828

66829

Fortunately, we have a "Concourse" guru to set us straight on these things.

[JBaker4981]

Concours or not, anyone driving on 40 year old tires needs an ass kicking. I say that not just regarding DeLoreans, but every motor vehicle out there. I'll be damned if some clown wrecks into a loved one because they are driving on wires or dry rot.