You built an electric self-driving drifting car out of a DeLorean??

[Rich]

I got to see this resurrection of VIN 6712 unveiled tonight at Stanford's Automotive Innovation Center. All I knew was that they'd be telling about their latest work in autonomous vehicles and the teaser was that it had something to do with going sideways.

Welcome, MARTY:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNIDcT0Zdj4

Just in time for the big day tomorrow, too!

Photos to follow.

[Rich]

MARTY is Stanford's latest student-led automotive project car. They rolled it out to the public tonight. Out of the back of a white enclosed trailer, including the dry ice fog just like in the movie.

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Yes, that Jamie (Mythbuster) Hyneman doing the honors there.

Stanford engineers built an autonomous DeLorean capable of stable, precise drifting at large angles in order to study how cars perform in extreme situations, which could ultimately guide the development of autonomous safety protocols.

200HP from 2 separately-controlled electric motors (100HP ea)

10kW-hr Li-Po battery pack

205-45/16s in front
225-50-16s in back (at least what's left of them)

Euro-sourced DeLorean power steering rack

Coil-overs, full roll cage, tubular secondary frame

Near-stock exterior, fully gutted interior

Made for drifting, not for high speed or breaking 0-60 records but, yes, it fully smokes both rears nicely from a standing start. Just like in the movie...

[Rich]

And the photos again....something weird in last upload:

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[arepb]

I got to see this resurrection of VIN 6712 unveiled tonight at Stanford's Automotive Innovation Center. All I knew was that they'd be telling about their latest work in autonomous vehicles and the teaser was that it had something to do with going sideways.

Welcome, MARTY:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNIDcT0Zdj4

Just in time for the big day tomorrow, too!

Photos to follow.

Hi Rich, sorry we didn't get a chance to meet tonight. For more detailed info and a link to many hi-res photos, here you go: bitly.com/martymedia (http://bitly.com/martymedia). Thanks for coming to see 6712 relaunch.

[Alan]

I'm all about predominantly stock cars. This still is about the coolest DeLorean EVER.

[Nicholas R]

Check out those front lower control arms! I wonder if they'd consider making a couple more sets! :wink:

[Bitsyncmaster]

Nice looking engineering and prototype work. The layout looks extremely professional.

[Rich W]

It's a bit early in the Midwest on Future Day,
but someone had to say it ...

Time to make the donuts !!

[novadmc]

amazing work


Check out those front lower control arms! I wonder if they'd consider making a couple more sets! :wink:

the engineers probably saw the stock LCAs and said "... these simply will not do." :D

[SS Spoiler]

Swaybar is gone also.....

[vtdmc]

If you're going to be build an electric self-driving drifting car, why not build it with some style?

[DMCVegas]

All that engineering work, and still no cupholders...

[jontheg]

Hi Rich!

I don't think we got to meet last night, but this is Jon G here, I was part of the Stanford team that worked on MARTY -- I was on stage with Jamie and the two Chrises.

Everyone: Let me know what DeLorean-specific questions you might have, there are some bounds on what I can say, but would love to give some of what we learned back to the community.

Thanks!

- Jon

[DMCVegas]

So many questions about that front suspension....

First of course is how it was completely reworked. Not just with the redesign of the Lower Control Arms, but the entire deletion of the Front Sway Bar. How has this affected handling? Is there substitute Strut Brace in the trunk? What are the improvements, and of course, what, if any, major work needs to be done to the front end to accommodate the new wishbone suspension design?

What are the parts involved for the braking system upgrade?

Which wheels did you use, and what tires are they?

Why is there a radiator still connected?

How much of the DMC-12's safety was compromised with the severing of the Front Crumple Tubes?

Is the reason that the sway bar was deleted because of the removal of those Crumple Tubes?

[jontheg]

So many questions about that front suspension....

First of course is how it was completely reworked. Not just with the redesign of the Lower Control Arms, but the entire deletion of the Front Sway Bar. How has this affected handling? Is there substitute Strut Brace in the trunk? What are the improvements, and of course, what, if any, major work needs to be done to the front end to accommodate the new wishbone suspension design?

What are the parts involved for the braking system upgrade?

Which wheels did you use, and what tires are they?

Why is there a radiator still connected?

How much of the DMC-12's safety was compromised with the severing of the Front Crumple Tubes?

Is the reason that the sway bar was deleted because of the removal of those Crumple Tubes?


Hey! Thanks for the Qs.

- Brake system is actually from Martin Gutkowski of http://www.delorean.co.uk/ -- it works pretty great. We had to add an electric brake booster system with the new electric drive, but this actually gives way better boost than the PRV ever gave...
- We have a tire sponsorship from Bridgestone (thanks guys!), so we move to sizes that lined up with their Potenza race line (RE-71R in the front, RE-11 in the rear). Great tires...! We are running 16x7 in front and 18x8 in the rear. Hard to find four bolts in the right size and offset, especially with our new steering range (+/- 40 deg), hence the different designs. Front is Enkei Compe, rear is Drag Dr-33.
- Our incredibly awesome Renovo Motors drivetrain (batteries+gearboxes+motors+motor controllers+chargers+awesome integrated drivetrain management/control API) needs to be cooled, so we actually just used the stock radiator. Gotta keep some parts stock...
- Safety is always, always, always our top priority. We actually have a full rollcage in the car, that ties to the front and rear strut towers, as well as bucket seats and six-point harnesses. The rollcage was designed by us, and then built by the pros at TC Design, after some modifications they suggested. This also gives us much needed torsional rigidity...

I'll talk more about suspension updates in a separate thing, coming up soon...

[nkemp]

Check out the video & Info at: http://www.roboticstrends.com/article/watch_marty_the_self_driving_delorean_does_perfect _donuts?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=weekly

or just the video via YouTube:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNIDcT0Zdj4

[Rich]

Thanks.
Moderators feel free to link this thread with the other one on this subject:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?12661

High-res press photos of this car plus some of the specs are linked in post #4 of that thread.

[nkemp]

I goofed ... That was supposed to DMC (DeLorean Making Circles) ... not Donuts. Oh well... another piece of brilliant wit lost.

[Nicholas R]

Hey! Thanks for the Qs.

- Safety is always, always, always our top priority. We actually have a full rollcage in the car, that ties to the front and rear strut towers, as well as bucket seats and six-point harnesses. The rollcage was designed by us, and then built by the pros at TC Design, after some modifications they suggested. This also gives us much needed torsional rigidity...
.

Can you elaborate on the roll cage? I'm curious how you have it fixed to the car, given the way a DeLorean is assembled. Since the frame is the double Y frame, does your roll cage actually attach to the frame, or does it only attach to the body? If it attaches to the frame, has that eliminated the ability to remove the body from the frame? Also, how does this affect the doors? Is the roll cage in the way or does it divert around the door openings?

Thanks for answering the questions! :thumbup:

[Ryan S.]

Wow. I am so impressed.
I hope you guys would share how you modified and what you have learned with all those mods.
How is electric motor system? What's the range and charging time?
Great work!!!

[Rich]

Can you elaborate on the roll cage? I'm curious how you have it fixed to the car, given the way a DeLorean is assembled. Since the frame is the double Y frame, does your roll cage actually attach to the frame, or does it only attach to the body? If it attaches to the frame, has that eliminated the ability to remove the body from the frame? Also, how does this affect the doors? Is the roll cage in the way or does it divert around the door openings?

Thanks for answering the questions! :thumbup:

I'm one of the visitors who got to see the car at its unveiling, am not answering as one of the team members who modified the car. Maybe one of the team members will also reply.

In the photos here you can see how that stiffening frame or rollcage intrudes above the door sills. There's also a shot of the frame during development.

The rollcage/frame makes entry and exit a tad trickier. The frame padding helps. For the purpose of their project let's guess that's a worthwhile tradeoff vs the increased torsional rigidity of the reinforced frame.

The doors open and close OK in terms of clearances and latching. But the doors do not have the inner panels/armrests on them anymore, probably due to a lack of clearance against the rollcage/frame. At 1:10 in the Marty intro video you can see the test crew pulling the bare doors closed by holding onto the window sill or the side glass with the windows down. Pulling down the door from the traditional grip location means you'd hit the rollcage/frame with your arm or hand as the door shuts.

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[Rich]

Wow. I am so impressed.
I hope you guys would share how you modified and what you have learned with all those mods.
How is electric motor system? What's the range and charging time?
Great work!!!

Again, not answering as a team member, only as an interested visitor to the unveiling. Here are some details from their media link: LINK: MARTY Media Assets (http://revs.stanford.edu/node/781)

The stats do not mention range or charging time. They do list a 10kWh battery capacity.


Team and Vehicle Stats

Name: MARTY (Multiple Actuator Research Test bed for Yaw control)

Original vehicle: 1981 DeLorean DMC-12, VIN SCEDT26T9BD006712

Team members: Professor Chris Gerdes (Mechanical Engineering, Revs Program at Stanford), PhD student Jon Goh, Shannon McClintock MS ’15, Phill Giliver ’17, Wyles Vance MS ’14, Arni Letho MS ’14, Mike Carter MS, Tushar Goel MS.

Drivetrain Specs:
Renovo Motors Electric Platform
Individual left/right motors, with on-motor gearboxes, providing 5600Nm total rear axle torque
150kW total power
10kWh capacity

Chassis:
Custom rollcage
Reinforced front frame member

Suspension:
Penske coilovers on all four corners, with adjustable ride height
Adjustable camber on front with custom lower a-arms

Steering:
High-performance steering rack, with increased steering angle
Electric power steering column with custom servomotor system

Computing:
dSpace MicroAutoBoxII for primary compute, xPC computer for secondary compute

[SS Spoiler]

Like the custom lower control arms that allow tighter turning radius. It's
embarrassing having the cornering ability of a 49 Nash Airflite.....

[Rich]

Here's a video I uploaded: MARTY's BTTF-style rollout at the Stanford intro event.

They had the car emerge from its "Doc-like" trailer amidst billows of dry ice fog with (non-BTTF) music accompaniment.

LINK: https://youtu.be/xB3KxXHjngY (https://youtu.be/xB3KxXHjngY)

Note that the inner door trim is missing, also how one gets out of the car over the roll cage/frame.


Can you elaborate on the roll cage? I'm curious how you have it fixed to the car, given the way a DeLorean is assembled. Since the frame is the double Y frame, does your roll cage actually attach to the frame, or does it only attach to the body? If it attaches to the frame, has that eliminated the ability to remove the body from the frame? Also, how does this affect the doors? Is the roll cage in the way or does it divert around the door openings?

[dustybarn]

Those lower wishbones look like the bee's knees! I think a lot of folks here would love to have a set of those. It wouldn't be too difficult to incorporate a conventional swaybar that rides in the stock forward mounts.

[Rich]

A recent thread discussed ways to improve a DeLorean's turning radius. http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?17081

I'm updating this thread since I visited Stanford's REVS program site again this week and was reminded I'd seen such a solution before.

During the visit I was pleased to see that MARTY is in residence again after a hiatus. This would be MARTY, the self-driving, electric, drifting DeLorean, the subject of this thread. The car happened to be parked in the shop with the front wheels at what was probably full lock. It's striking how much of an angle they're at, now captured in some images, which is the reason for this update.

As mentioned already in this thread installing lower A-arms so they could lose the front sway bar did the trick. Even though the swaybar's gone the other suspension mods and the frame stiffening kept the body roll down.

For those who missed it earlier here are links from previous posts in this thread to a short video showing what the car was designed to do and to one I captured at their BTTF-style rollout in 2015. Enjoy.

MARTY video by Stanford, including action shots of the rad front suspension hard at work:https://youtu.be/WNIDcT0Zdj4

MARTY's 2015 rollout event: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB3KxXHjngY&feature=youtu.be

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=59393&d=1551986586

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=59392&d=1551986507

[mr_maxime]

They just posted a behind the scenes video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tradNtWvPS4&feature=youtu.be

[mr_maxime]

Also this one


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x3SqeSdrAE

[Rich]

Good post, Maxime,

Will Ken Block's job someday be automated?

In 2015 Stanford University's MARTY debuted as an autonomous drifting DeLorean EV.

Today we see what MARTY's been up to since it landed back in the lab last March, explained here in a 4 minute video and then in yesterday's press release with that video embedded:

LINK to MARTY gymkhana video (https://youtu.be/tradNtWvPS4)

Press release Dec. 20 (https://news.stanford.edu/2019/12/20/autonomous-delorean-drives-sideways-move-forward/)

Judge for yourselves MARTY's leap forward; it now autonomously drifts in both directions and can drift through a tight gymkhana-style course, not just drift in a stable circle.

[mr_maxime]

I want those damn LCAs. I emailed them a couple of days ago before I even saw this video posted on Reddit. I didnt notice until today, but it looks like they cut the front section of the frame out.

[mark w]

I want those damn LCAs. I emailed them a couple of days ago before I even saw this video posted on Reddit. I didnt notice until today, but it looks like they cut the front section of the frame out.


the upper and lower A arms were fabricated by the team. the frame section that the A arms attach too is stock, but missing the crumple section forward of the tunnel that the steering rack normally sits in. They added a plate to the front of it for strength since they mounted thier steering rack (stock does not have enough lock to lock ratio) to the front of it.

the upper part of the coilover suspension ties in with the tubular frame and rollcage they added.

Mark

[jontheg]

Hi all!

We actually posted a decently detailed write-up of the work done on the car here: https://ddl.stanford.edu/marty/overview
It includes pictures and descriptions of the work on the suspension, including the front LCAs.

mark w's summary above is pretty accurate. The LCAs are unfortunately not a drop-in replacement, as they 1) are designed to be used with coilovers and 2) require sacrificing the front 'swaybar'.

Personally, there are probably a few things I would change about them as well -- we had like 2 weeks to get this done. If we had a chance to redo it, I would have further explored connecting the coilovers closer to the hub attachment point, and thereby greatly reducing the bending loads on the LCA. Currently they need to be pretttty beefy to withstand all the loads.

To be fair, the DeLorean with actually good suspension is... awesome*. If there are folks interested in using this stuff to redesign a less invasive coilover conversion + beefier-fication, I may be interested in helping out.

Also, did you guys notice we have a 5 bolt pattern now? :P

- Jon

*Interior Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHU4Xop4dWw

[mr_maxime]

Jon, I'm interested in just about everything you mentioned. The only thing that I'd currently rather not touch is cutting the from section of frame off.

Stock turn radius is pretty bad. My front suspension is also pretty beat up looking. I don't know how people can fit bigger tires on the car cause mine rub the sway bar with stock sizes.

Ive been thinking about 5 lug conversion, but seeing how we got a 3d scanner at work now, I'm thinking of scanning the wheels and having one offs made in a larger size.

[DMC-81]

I just saw this thread. Wow, this is awesome! These engineers are helping to advance the autonomous future. And I thought we just had Johnny Cabs to look forward to. :)

Hats off to everyone involved, and for using the DeLorean as their test vehicle.