BTTF observations, rants, etc. (Console switches don't align? Voila! Problem solved)

[PJ Grady Inc.]

In the interest of keeping the console switch thread on track I would like the revisit the BTTF comments posted there as a new thread. It seems there's plenty of pent up opinions on the subject and this topic is certainly timely given the 30th anniversary yesterday. I'm going to open this with my thoughts on the whole BTTF phenomenon.

BTW I had a great time yesterday as I was able to sneak backstage on the Jimmy Kimmel Show and watch Christopher Lloyd doing his practice runs and watched Mr. Kimmel with his baby girl bend down and give words of encouragement to the BTTF star. I saw M.J.F. too but didn't try to introduce myself to anyone as they had their work cut out for them at that moment.

That being said although I think the BTTF movies are great and have created added interest and ultimately value to the Delorean automobile I hate for this to be considered the defining story about the car. J.Z.D.s concept for, startup of the factory in record time, and the actual production of the car is to me the real story behind the scenes. Keeping the cars alive whether as concour's entrants, garage queens, daily drivers, or modified and improved is my life's work. That is what floats my boat...not the hoopla behind BTTF whatever the fallout both good and bad.

I think way too many Deloreans have been made into BTTF cars and the demand for them will fall off sharply after this. The media will move on instantly to the latest installment of "Star Wars" or whatever else will be the next media frenzy. I think the days ahead will not be kind to the BTTF conversion craze and hope the fallout does not bring down the value of normal Deloreans as it took so long for them to reach their current valuations. Anybody care to share their thoughts on this matter? Josh B. feel free to insert rant here;)!

[DMCVegas]

I don't think that interest in BTTF will ever drop-off anytime soon. I've always believed that the reason the movie is so cherished by so many isn't just because of the story, but how people personally connect with it. Who hasn't daydreamed about what it would be like to have Doc Brown's time machine, and what they would do with it? That's where the personal connection comes in.

As for BTTF as related to the marque and the cars' legacy, I fully accept it. I also accept what happened in Room 501 and the cocaine scandal. I certainly DO correct people when they are misinformed, but I don't pretend like it never happened.

And I'm gonna come out and say it bluntly right now. First, if you own a DeLorean, you've got to be prepared for the attention, be it negative or positive. That is not negotiable.

Second, you need to have a strong sense of independence and stop caring what other people think. That is what the DOA's fucking problem is. They've been a group who for decades has been trying to play "Keeping up with the Jones's", and have been loosing. So their failure to just come out and say, "Fuck you! I like DeLoreans! I don't give a shit what you think, *I* like it!" has resulted in them kissing all their friends' collective asses and trying to pretend the car is something it's not! Trying to play the car up as some sort of exclusive luxury toy for the very privileged, and putting on airs about how only the rich should own it, and whatever else they've done... And then when that of course failed, they took their frustrations out on the rest of us! Yeah, I've had plenty of run-ins with DOA people over the years with some nasty e-mails about me and my car. And of course that culminated with the DOA severing ties to all of the chapters.

Yet this isn't a DOA-only mentality. This is pretty much the par for the course of people who want a DeLorean, but then get pissed that regular people own them because it doesn't impress their friends. So now we're trying to create this new generation of pretentiousness that is manifesting itself as anti-BTTF elitism.

Let's just get things straight: Whether you like it or not. BTTF is a huge part of the DeLorean marque. Many, MANY owners are here today because of it. Not simply because they wanted to be Marty McFly or Doc Brown, but because BTTF made them aware of the existence of the car itself. And guess what? There isn't a single thing wrong with that. Does the DeLorean owe it's modern popularity to BTTF? I dunno. Why is that so important of a question, and do you really want the answer? Because honestly, the DMC-12 owes a LOT to BTTF! Again, it was great advertising that brought lots of fresh blood into the marque that we need.

I swear, there are two types of DeLorean owners; The ones who want the car to be something that it isn't, and then take it out on the rest of us... And then the rest of us who are ideal DeLorean owners. Not because of wealth, resources, or anything like that. It's because we're eccentrics that don't care what other people think! BTTF? Sure, we've got that flux capacitor. Nice Ferrari, but do you actually know how to tune that K-Jet system yourself? We're always the ones proud of what we ourselves have done to our cars, versus bragging about what we've spent on them. We share the cars, and even toss out some hot wheels for the kids. Sure, we put up with some stupid stuff, and believe me I know what that's like. It's tough to put up with all of that, to have someone tear down what you've put so much work into. But hey, you've got the car. You get to go home with it, and they don't. Why is that not good enough? What will EVER be good enough?

[ccurzio]

To quote myself quoting Josh:


It would probably be different if people were reasonable about it.
I think this right here is the thing. It's the difference between the people who visit the McFly house in Los Angeles and keep a respectful distance, versus the assholes that go traipsing through the yard and get pictures taken at the front door. People are assholes, and those are the ones that make the most noise.

As for the car perspective, I love the BTTF movies. It's why I own the car. But as much as I love the movies, I have every intention of keeping my DeLorean fully original. People often ask me if I'm going to ever do a Time Machine conversion, and my answer is always the same: Absolutely not. The DeLorean is already a rare and beautiful car on its own. There's zero reason for me to rarefy it by destroying it to accommodate a Time Machine conversion. (And remember, this is coming from someone who absolutely adores the movies.) If a vendor feels the same way and that's the way they choose to run their business, I can very easily respect that.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't convert their DeLoreans into Time Machines (though it breaks my heart a little every time a new one happens), and I'm not saying people who own Time Machine conversions are assholes. I'm saying that there should be equal amounts of respect for the people who keep their cars original, and the vendors who choose to cater to that side of the market.

Side Note: I also have a huge amount of disdain for "prop shops" that have turned the art of prop building into a borderline mass-production assembly line business with no soul behind the work and try to market the business (and the lifestyle) beyond what it actually is. If you spend the time and effort to build a prop car on your own, that's an achievement. When you pay a company obscene amounts of money to stamp you a duplicate of something they've made a hundred times before, who gives a shit?

[Victor]

To quote myself quoting Josh:


I think this right here is the thing. It's the difference between the people who visit the McFly house in Los Angeles and keep a respectful distance, versus the assholes that go traipsing through the yard and get pictures taken at the front door. People are assholes, and those are the ones that make the most noise.

As for the car perspective, I love the BTTF movies. It's why I own the car. But as much as I love the movies, I have every intention of keeping my DeLorean fully original. People often ask me if I'm going to ever do a Time Machine conversion, and my answer is always the same: Absolutely not. The DeLorean is already a rare and beautiful car on its own. There's zero reason for me to rarefy it by destroying it to accommodate a Time Machine conversion. (And remember, this is coming from someone who absolutely adores the movies.) If a vendor feels the same way and that's the way they choose to run their business, I can very easily respect that.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't convert their DeLoreans into Time Machines (though it breaks my heart a little every time a new one happens), and I'm not saying people who own Time Machine conversions are assholes. I'm saying that there should be equal amounts of respect for the people who keep their cars original, and the vendors who choose to cater to that side of the market.

Side Note: I also have a huge amount of disdain for "prop shops" that have turned the art of prop building into a borderline mass-production assembly line business with no soul behind the work and try to market the business (and the lifestyle) beyond what it actually is. If you spend the time and effort to build a prop car on your own, that's an achievement. When you pay a company obscene amounts of money to stamp you a duplicate of something they've made a hundred times before, who gives a shit?
Very well said.

[burch]

There are some really fantastic points above. In my case, BTTF was the conduit by which I was introduced to the car at a young age, but my obsession with the car itself started when I saw one in real life. I've got more than a mild obsession with both the movies and the car, but they are somehow separated in my mind.

That being said, I personally don't have a problem with the BTTF connection, and it has started many conversations just this week about the car itself, and not necessarily the movie. To me, interest in the car, regardless of source, can lead to purchases, and more active owners keep our vendor friends in business :)

[delgato]

My question goes out to those who did buy the car because of the movie.

If BTTF used a 1981 Ford Mustang as the time machine, would you be the proud owner of a 1981 Ford Mustang?

What about a Ferrari? Would you buy one of those?

How about a Yugo????

[mluder]

I've never been a fan of collectible car owners, prop car owners, and even cos-players who don't do the work themselves. I think these things need to be a part of you... You have to live with them and grow with them. Buying off the shelf kinda cheapens the whole thing.

Cheers
Steven

[DMCMW Dave]

I've never been a fan of collectible car owners, prop car owners, and even cos-players who don't do the work themselves. I think these things need to be a part of you... You have to live with them and grow with them. Buying off the shelf kinda cheapens the whole thing.

So - by that logic an Art Collector should be a Painter?

[mr_maxime]

I'm not a BTTF fan. As I said before I saw it in the wedding singer when I was younger which is what made me like the car. The BTTF comments can get a bit old, but having a painted one means I get a bit less. Although having a real BTTF fan get excited over my car is still a good time. I always feel weird telling people I bought the car because of what it is vs being a BTTF fan.

To add a little bit to what DMCVegas said, it might be a bit arrogant, but I always feel slightly better than the ferrari or mclaren owners I see. I still get excited to see the cars, but I cant help but think "well, you spent a lot of money to have something nice" I don't know exactly how to word it, but it's not the same as owning. Anyone with money can buy expensive things, but my delorean cost less than a new camry.

[Dangermouse]

My question goes out to those who did buy the car because of the movie.

If BTTF used a 1981 Ford Mustang as the time machine, would you be the proud owner of a 1981 Ford Mustang?

What about a Ferrari? Would you buy one of those?

How about a Yugo????

Or a fridge?

[Alan]

So - by that logic an Art Collector should be a Painter?

Well said.

[DMCVegas]

My question goes out to those who did buy the car because of the movie.

If BTTF used a 1981 Ford Mustang as the time machine, would you be the proud owner of a 1981 Ford Mustang?

What about a Ferrari? Would you buy one of those?

How about a Yugo????

Honestly in terms of people who bought DMC-12 because of BTTF, I think it would have been about the same as people who bought Trans Ams because of Knight Rider or Smokey and the Bandit. Both of which are relics of some of Detroit's worst years, and probably would have been long forgotten about had it not have been for those franchises.

But the DMC-12 has the advantage though with it's own uncommon looks, engineering, and history as well. I don't know for sure, but I'd be willing to bet that DeLorean values would be lower, and a lot more would still be sitting unrestored in garages and the like. Now I remember seeing the DeLorean as a small child, and I was mesmerized by it. I remember the one that got me hooked back in 1989 that I saw in the wild (unique as it was thanks to a custom body kit, I've never been able to track it down). It's not that I don't like BTTF, I love it as a movie. But the movie car didn't seem real to me. It was like the Batmobile, or something like that. Cool looking, but not real. But seeing a DeLorean on the highway? WOW! That was totally different from the sleekness, the front end, and the patterns the spinning wheels make. It didn't even occur to me until years later that these were the same cars.

Being as unbiased as possible here, I think that if to say most "movie" cars, be it a Trans Am, a Ford Torino, or whatever, if the movies that they were connected to did NOT exist, or at least if someone didn't know about them, they wouldn't have as much appeal as a stock DeLorean does to someone who has never seen BTTF. And I have met people, strange as it seems to me, that have NEVER seen BTTF, and they still we're just mesmerized by my car. Lots of future owners out there on the road.

So yeah, I think that BTTF is appealing, and has certainly helped the marque a great deal by bringing owners into the ranks by making them aware of the car. And a lot of credit is due for that. But I think only a small amount of owners buy a DeLorean because they want the car from BTTF, so much as they want a DeLorean that happened to star in the movie. Still though, thanks to that movie, allot of you are here now. And while we don't have to cosplay, we should at least give a nod.



To add a little bit to what DMCVegas said, it might be a bit arrogant, but I always feel slightly better than the ferrari or mclaren owners I see. I still get excited to see the cars, but I cant help but think "well, you spent a lot of money to have something nice" I don't know exactly how to word it, but it's not the same as owning. Anyone with money can buy expensive things, but my delorean cost less than a new camry.

You know what that feeling is for me? RELIEF! Seriously. I've caught shit for saying that the DeLorean was my dream car, but I don't care. It's my dream. And you know what is awesome about finally getting your dream car? The race is over! I'm not pining over anything else. I'm not having to buy a new car because mine is outdated (Looking at you, Ford SYNC!:angry:). I'm not in a perpetual pissing contest over who has a better car. I'm not worried about getting my dream car before I die. I'm not worried about attending shows. I'm not worried about tools or parts. I'm not worried about $5,000 tune-ups. I'm not worried about specialist mechanics. I'm not worried most of all about what other people think and how I measure up to them. "Oh, you own (insert car here), but you're always comparing it to the new models? Sucks to be you!" Who the hell can live like that? Shit, Ferrari has an approval list of people who have to ask for permission to buy their cars. I didn't have to ask anyone permission to buy my car, and there is certainly no DeLorean out there that I'm "not good enough to own" if it came up for sale. But I'm perfectly happy with mine.

I feel better than the owners of other marques because I don't have to put up with the bullshit that they do. I am free in ways that they can never imagine when it comes to cars. Grass greener on the other side? Nope! It's all scorched earth compared to my lawn! I'm living happily ever after, and they're not. THAT is why I feel better, or rather more at peace with my classic car ownership than others. And let me tell you, I'm already on my 16th car, and the DeLorean is still the only one of the lot I would choose if I had to pick only one to drive for the rest of my life. How many people can ever be that happy?

[mr_maxime]

There are still plenty of other cars I'd love to have, even that smokey and the bandit trans am. Then again never seen the movie but that black and gold has always appealed to me since I was a kid. The delorean would still be my favorite though. Being relatively cheap and so outrageous, I really don't mind personalizing it. You mess with most cars and people really start getting upset. I guess being the BTTF car, people are a bit more accepting of a modified delorean. I still think it'd be a cool car without the movie, but its probably a good reason why so many people get excited when seeing it and I love to see them get excited.

[Delorean Industries]

The days ahead will not be kind in general. This was the generational "climax" of the car and exploited rightly so. With no disrespect to what others have built business wise within the community aside from my normal blatant factual full frontal assaults big will soon be a thing of the past. At first few key players will cash out and or hand down to the next generation. These people even if involved now will only remember the good times and will have trouble becoming "fluid" from a business stand point as an image has been created. One I will not debate here ethically or morally but this is America and snap chat is valued at 16 billion somehow. So if a defunct car brand can be questionably whored out this successfully then I guess this is capitalism defined.

Owners have always asked why I haven't aggressively pushed on a franchise scale with premium services. Simply because the cost would net no gain. Sooner than later I personally would end up where I am now. Which is fluid with flexibility across the country, parts sales/services world wide and a global approach to going and working just about anywhere. Quote me on this in five years.... Ten for sure.


As much as I hate to say it Swingle was right years ago with his assessment of the marques longevity. Essentially in the end one guy will have some parts in a pole barn behind his house kinda deal. Think Bricklin type end of things. He was right but a variable has been introduced since this was said.While unless someone pulls the trigger and knocks me out of the running due to a number of things including age etc I'm the front runner slated for that fate by default. But there is another..... Realistically if Cam out there on the left coast can balance surfing and NOS parts sales that will be a pole barn business possibility too. But eventually the cost vs reward of that will go away. Once certain things are gone the cost of reproducing to a shrinking market will outweigh doing so without established long term manufacturing contacts. Innovation will take the lead and win based on the cost of doing business aspect alone.

By no means saying that Rob will not pass the torch as it is not my place to comment on his long term company goals. Other than that in the states there are no other contenders. What ever is left of this community will be stuck with an outspoken innovating ass hole from the mid west and a left coast surfer dude.

[DMCVegas]

I mean, honestly think that's a fair assessment and all. But the one factor that has greatly changed now is DMCH. I think that their long-term goal now is to simply become a low-volume turnkey car manufacturer, with the DMC-12 benefiting from that. Or at least as long as it can. They lost the Kappa Platform to Tauro, so right now all they've got is the DMC-12. Who knows what they will conscript next in terms of a platform/brand. But I think that will keep things going for the DeLorean for some time to come.

Eventually anyways, I mean one day we're just never going to see one again on the road though, certainly. But I don't think that day is going to come as quickly as some might think.

[Delorean Industries]

There isn't a market for the quality of product that would result from attempting within the scope of what those involved are capable of.

[DMCVegas]

Welp, that scope is about to get a pretty wide-angle.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?11241-DMC-TX-being-sued-by-DeLorean-s-Widow/page5

[Delorean Industries]

I was by no means touching on the subject from a legality stand point. You can tell a kindergartner with crayons its alright to draw on the wall. The permission to do so doesn't net you a Picasso by default. When the kindergartners previous attempts at drawing were nothing to speak of as the skill to draw is not there. What is being given the permission even worth.

[ccurzio]

a global approach to going and working just about anywhere.

I'm looking forward to this, Josh. I'd kill to get you to give my car a good run-through and knock out the gremlins.

[Victor]

As far as modification are concerned, wouldn't it be nice if there was a business doing the kind of work Singer is doing for Porsche? Greatly improving the car without destroying its soul.
Maybe there is not enough Delorean out there to do so...

But do not fear a lost of interest of the car. Its design itself mixed with the stainless body is really standing the test of time (outatime!). And will remained or always returned more or less like a wave. The film help for sure but it would be nice to see a Delorean in another great film unrelated with BTTF (the kind of like you see with a Steve McQueen Bullitt or just a cameo in a very good movie _ but different from The wedding singer, definitely!

I feel the value of Deloreans will still hold and hopefully increase in the future, with or without the BTTF references.

[Delorean Industries]

Victor we are already taking things to the Singer level currently here. I have for some time used Dickerson as a bench mark for what the high end of this marketplace should become. Rob and his team produce beautiful cars. They are at the advantage of most items being readily available with large amounts of bespoke components implemented. We have essentially and continue to work towards producing every component on the car. (currently 1600+ items done)

Our first official (non company development platform) Applied Innovation customer car will be unveiled in LA next year in a fashion worth waiting for with the remaining builds on order finishing over the following 12 months. The owner has had the experience of hand tailoring via our suggestions and manufacturing techniques a fully refined, bespoke example. The build incorporates everything we are known to offer which is the highest quality components available anywhere. Along with hundreds of items that are currently "build car only" status and only available through the program. The process takes close to 1100 hours to complete including manufacturing of components as many mil spec stainless components then go through an added process.

Current base pricing for builds with a factory fiberglass under body is $229,000. In 2017 the builds will incorporate our carbon fiber monocoque survival cells with pricing to increase slightly. We are only offering one engine spec initially which is our all out twin turbo platform with N/A packages to be available in later forms (currently only available under preservation builds). All cars are "restored/modified" under the proven Singer strategy utilizing an existing vin. They are all zero mile cars supplied with an odometer reading that matches the vin/titles current status with a replacement zero mile unit supplied to be installed by customer upon delivery of the machine.

[ccurzio]

We have essentially and continue to work towards producing every component on the car.

http://i.imgur.com/w9W7yQw.gif

After installing your exhaust, I'm actually pretty excited about the idea of being able to buy any part I would ever need from DPI.

[Delorean Industries]

At this time we have both doors designed and ready for stamping die development along with the front fenders. Hood and T panel are next with the quarters coming last. Averages out to roughly 28k per panel in design, development, dies etc to produce. Comes in at a little under 250k with our current option but it is very important to me that we produce all panels at once through the same supplier. This will create uniformity within the product. Along with the die clause in contract putting the cost of die repair/replacement on the manufacture this is the only way to go.

Panel cost WILL NOT take into account the development cost associated with producing the components. I plan to throw this against the bottom line in general. We will be under contract to produce 50 of each after samples are produced. Pricing vs. current NOS offerings will be comparable if not less in most cases. T panels for example will be in the 250.00 range.

More to come on this later.

[fnzen]

Why all the hate of Ferrari?

I must say the cars are polar opposites

Whats interesting here is the high qty of DeLoreans left and the people willing? to "restore" them

the bttf will always be a part of this franchise however the replica are a double edge sword in that its NOT the real thing from the movie but the "want to have" floats all values ....imo good cars are really junked with the conversion because as time wears the mystic of the bttf replica is just that a replica no true value only intrinsic value

I applaud the DeLorean innovator upgrades because the D is really 70s technology

in the meantime LIVING THE DREAM

[Delorean Industries]

As my intentions become more and more evident I'll clear something most people are asking up now. Why would you make all of this?

Because I really love this car more than anything but my love for manufacturing and innovation is equally as strong. As those close to me know I have gotten into the manufacturing business of things other than DeLorean components. I didn't want to make something generic like everyone else just to make money and wanted to stay stimulated as a result. Sat down to figure it out. I thought of something that was a problem for me and asked why doesn't this exist, found there wasn't a solution after looking further, thought what would I do, prototyped in solid works and produced a sample. I'm heavily connected with summit and a number of other parts retailers and they literally ate this up. While not DeLorean related I'm beyond excited to show this when the time is right. It is up in the air currently but I may just sell the concept and manufacturing rights and move on to something else to manufacture but we will see what the other side of the table offers in the coming months.

With steps like this I can work to better fund the DeLorean side of things without having to pass the financial burden on through the final product on to owners. Trying to keep things as reasonable as possible. Everyone knows every penny and then some goes back into this and the proof is evident in the scale in which things are produced and done. I want to step that up a notch without having to supplement it at the expense of owners.

[DMCVegas]

Hell, I'll settle just for 5-Lug hubs to get some modern, matching wheels for common tire sizes...

[Delorean Industries]

Hell, I'll settle just for 5-Lug hubs to get some modern, matching wheels for common tire sizes...

Already have you covered on the front. We have 4 x100 4x110 and standard 5 lug hub adapters that mount to stock front spindles for our brake packages. Rears will be done shortly as the rear machine work center-less grinding is behind schedule. Allows for a Porsche 911 six bolt pattern as on the un1 with custom shaft going to a EVO 8 style internal spline hub combo with optional vss input to ecu for vehicle speed and 3 speed auto trans control without factory governor. We were going to broach updated outer hubs only but it was more cost effective to revise the entire design.

[DMCVegas]

Already have you covered on the front. We have 4 x100 4x110 and standard 5 lug hub adapters that mount to stock front spindles for our brake packages. Rears will be done shortly as the rear machine work center-less grinding is behind schedule. Allows for a Porsche 911 six bolt pattern as on the un1 with custom shaft going to a EVO 8 style internal spline hub combo with optional vss input to ecu for vehicle speed and 3 speed auto trans control without factory governor. We were going to broach updated outer hubs only but it was more cost effective to revise the entire design.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/omg/NIusM.gif

I really want an EcoBoost V6 mated to a Boxster 6-Speed Transaxle to create basically a Ford GT Drivetrain in my car. You may just have a few parts I need for wheels and braking...

[Delorean Industries]

Always here to help. Can also help with crate engine purchasing, engine management options etc for the ecoboost platform.

[DMCVegas]

Always here to help. Can also help with crate engine purchasing, engine management options etc for the ecoboost platform.


http://i.imgur.com/pij1hu6.gif

Good to know. Ford has been promising a Control Pak for 2 years now, and still nothing... I'm guessing it won't happen until after the GT hits Le Mans. So far I've seen 500 horses on a Ford Flex over on YouTube. Even in stock 300 range I'm fine, but 500 is the goal.

[Domi]

More stainless parts :yesss: