LF fender is chewing front tire and damaged - uggggg

[Ryan S.]

I would appreciate any expert advices.

A few days ago, as I was entering from street to parking lot, very slowly, over a big dip, I heard a loud scarping noise. I figured I scraped bottom, instead, I found my LF fender rim bent out and front tire was shredded. Hammered fender in and got a new tire but kept doing it again next day. I could also feel some slight steering wheel vibration whenever I turn steering wheel slightly at highway speed. Little or no vibration when driving straight at highway speed.

When car is parked on a flat surface, LF tire is about 0.4 in closer to the front fender compare to the other side.
When car is parked on a hill and tilted to the left side, LF tire is well inside of front fender and front part of tire is hitting an upper front part of fender rim if I turn a steering wheel. I believe that's how my front tire got damaged.

Today I removed both tires and inspected carefully. I really couldn’t tell if anything was significantly wrong. Front sway bar looked ok. Sway bar bushings were less than a year old no sign of damages.
Springs and shocks looked ok. Measured spring heights and they looked the same.
Front crumple zone looked ok and no visible sign of damages.


However, LF lower ball joint boot looked slightly flat in shape when the RF has a cone shape. Original boots were cracked so replaced them with new boots from SpecialT about a year ago. LF boot looks like has developed a slight gap near bottom of boot and much of greases were leaked out.


Position of LF lower ball joint looked a bit different and it might be causing the left front wheel to be shifted toward the front. However, LF wheel didn't have any play when I tired to move it with my hands.
Also front wheels don’t seem to be aligned. When right wheel was slightly turned, left wheel stayed straight. Complete alignment and balancing were done about 6 months ago.

Here are some photos. And Thank you again in advance.


https://flic.kr/s/aHsknQ5Grs (https://flic.kr/s/aHsknQ5Grs)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/28315265@N06/albums/72157660228358116

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[kenny]

Hi,
Do you have a photo of the right front wheel?
Your lf wheel looks to be much closer to the front of the fender than the centre.
How do the lca to frame bushes look? Mine were shot and it resulted in the lca moving at the frame.
If both wheels are same position in the wheel wells the other suggestion I have is to change the shocks

[Ryan S.]

I don't have the right side photos but I can take them today. It looked normal and more center than the left side wheel.
I really didn't see anything wrong with lca bushings. But then again, I may not know what to look for. I will try to take more photos of that area today.
Basically, I tried to compare left against right side. Looked for anything that didn't match. So far, nothing significant.

[Delorean Industries]

Lower control arm bushing failure/front sway bar bushing failure will cause this. Bushing can fail due to age, installation into the arm incorrectly where the press tolerance is not observed or the front sway bar bushing can give out. If you had a shop replace this recently it is most likely the issue. If the bushing is not centered within the control arm assembly this directly relates to over all caster which is technically non adjustable but very much so is by incorrect bearing installation or adjustable front sway bar brackets.

[DMC5180]

Ryan,

Are you running a stock 195/60-14 0r 205/60-14? I can't tell from your photo's.

I went and checked mine (w/lowering springs). No witness marks on the left side, but I do have evidence of rubbing on the right side. There is a 4" long worn area in the Black Edge protector. (mirror location as yours ) No witness marks on the tire though. It likely happened when I had a different tire brand with a taller edge profile. I currently have Falken ZIEX 512"s 195 Front and 225 Rear.

Because of the lowered front, I'm always cautious when turning into slopped driveway entrances just for that reason. Take-um slow so you don't overly compress the suspension in the turn.

[David T]

Ryan,

Are you running a stock 195/60-14 0r 205/60-14? I can't tell from your photo's.

I went and checked mine (w/lowering springs). No witness marks on the left side, but I do have evidence of rubbing on the right side. There is a 4" long worn area in the Black Edge protector. (mirror location as yours ) No witness marks on the tire though. It likely happened when I had a different tire brand with a taller edge profile. I currently have Falken ZIEX 512"s 195 Front and 225 Rear.

Because of the lowered front, I'm always cautious when turning into slopped driveway entrances just for that reason. Take-um slow so you don't overly compress the suspension in the turn.

Take a measurement from the center of the wheels on the left side and compare it to the same measurement on the right side. There is something wrong with the front left wheel. Check if the recall has been done with the reinforcing plates on the sway bar mounts.

[Ryan S.]

I have standard size bf Goodrich 195/60/14 and 235/60/15.
PO installed Eibach and springs from DMC.
Frontend recall was done about 3 years ago using a DMC recall kit
About 9 months ago, sway bar was removed and repainted. Drove about 2 miles then shipped it to LA for a new tranny. Repair shop told me that sway bar was attched upside down and reinstalled. Since then, I drove it around for another 1500 miles or so.
Also performed realignment about 3-4 months ago.
A couple of weeks ago, installed new set of rear tires.
Now this.

Right and Left are not the same. I will take some photos and will post shortly

[Ryan S.]

OK. I put the car on a flat surface and measured position of both tires. I was mistaken about the left wheel closer to the front of fender. They were pretty much identical in measurements except center to top edge of fender.
Right front was about 0.4 inches taller than left side. Definitely, my car is tilted to left.

Right rear was also about 1/8 inches taller than the right side. Rear suspension is height adjustable so I guess I could try to make it even.

With a 180 LB driver, car will be tilted to left even more. Time to lose weight.


I also performed various tests this morning
When one tire was higher than the other, (one side was on a curve and the other side was on street), curve side tire almost touched top of fenders, especially when wheels were slightly turned. But the left side was much more pronounced and definitely catching the inside edge of fender. Right side barely touched top of fender. I checked under the car during this and both side looked the same.

I am guessing that I might have a bad spring.

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[DMCMW Dave]

Check the height adjustment on the rear shocks. If they are uneven it will make the front different from side to side. If the right rear is set high the left front will be low. Measure from the lower mount bolt to the bottom of the spring cup, make sure both sides are the same.

I've never seen a bad spring (Stock or Eibach). There were some off-brand springs running around that were soft (I had them on my own car for a while) but they seemed to fail evenly. Usually when the height is uneven, it's a bushing issue or something with the frame.

There are some cars that are just not straight from side to side, but they are that way from the factory.

[Ryan S.]

Dave,
I think I haven an earlier version of Eibach setup. Just to make sure I am doing this correctly.
To raise the car, I would turn the ring upward and to lower the car, I would turn the ring downward. Correct?
Thank you

[DMCMW Dave]

Dave,
I think I haven an earlier version of Eibach setup. Just to make sure I am doing this correctly.
To raise the car, I would turn the ring upward and to lower the car, I would turn the ring downward. Correct?
Thank you

Yes, but you need to compress the spring somewhat as well. You will NOT be able to turn the ring with spring pressure on the cup, (rings, there are two of them locked together, hopefully). Even if you are able you'd scratch everything up.

[dn010]

Mine looked like this when my lower ball joint failed...

[andyd]

Hi

I noticed this on my car last night. I had already had a mammoth fixing session, and just as I was putting it in the garage, I noticed this.

I will check my bushes, LCA's etc this evening. (Poly's, new DCUK BJs, recent rebuild (1000 miles ago) etc)

Looks similar to what Ryan experienced. I was just wondering if anyone knew the upshot of Ryan's experience?

WIll report back when I've had a look...

Cheers

Andy

[andyd]

That would explain it...

37954

[DMC5180]

You are very lucky. Many stories of those failures did not end so well. The good part is that beefier aftermarket LCAs are available from various vendors.


Dennis

[Chris 16409]

That would explain it...

37954

The same thing happened to my lower control arm. My advice to you is to get a pair of newly manufactured control arms, either from Heninger, DMC-MW, or DPI.

[dn010]

I have a heavy duty or stock replacement if you're interested, but I say get DPIs stainless arms, I love them.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[DMC5180]

Chris, who's LCA's did you end up using?


Dennis

[Chris 16409]

Chris, who's LCA's did you end up using?


Dennis

When I needed to replace mine, Byrne's were the only option that was readily available. Dave S. still had his aluminum ones in the prototype stage, and Josh didn't have any Stainless arms in stock. I think Byrne's arms are really nice. Very heavy duty. Plus, his have been around the longest and have proven to be reliable.

[SS Spoiler]

Had same rip in the lower control arm. The tire looked funny
also, leaning. Got SS arms [Byrnes] from DMCMW. Before I put
them on I polished 'em up. Looks cool....

[DMC5180]

Are you sure those where (Byrnes) and not Pearce SS LCA's.


Dennis

[SS Spoiler]

hmmm? good question...

[DMCMW Dave]

hmmm? good question...

They were Pearce arms if they were stainless.

[Ryan S.]

Here is my update.
Cannot seem to find anything wrong. Dave S helped me diagnose lower joint and it is good. I reinstalled fender edge guard and not damaging my tire anymore. Also readjusted rear height and made the front end even. I took out my flat spare tire and only filling up half way.
Tomorrow, Clint is going to roll up my fender so that it won't touch my wheel anymore. Also he is going to help me replace rubber boots. I am just driving very carefully whenever I go over bumps.

Regarding LCA failure, California cars should be at a lower risk, right? Since we don't have snow and hardly get any rains. My car doesn't have any major rust issues.

[DMC5180]

Regarding LCA failure, California cars should be at a lower risk, right? Since we don't have snow and hardly get any rains. My car doesn't have any major rust issues.

Rain and snow is not as big a factor when it comes to LCA failure. Moreover it has to do with stress risers and cracks that form from stamping process used to form the sheetmetal. If you look along the edge of the perimeter flange you will likely see spots where the metal is pushed together forming a crease line( stress riser ). Now the next time you open a plastic food product bag notice that the bag usually has a spot that is nipped or slit to start the tear open line.
The same process is trying to occur with the edge of the sheetmetal in the LCA where the edge is compromised. Continuous torquing and twisting is working the metal. Once the fatigue fracture is started its only a matter of time before failure. Rust that forms in the crack can speed the failure process.



Dennis

[DMCVegas]

Yeah, I'll second all that. Rust will speed up the process of damaging the LCAs, but it's not the main cause. I have a desert car, and I'm a hard driver that doesn't slow down for speed bumps, and I have LCAs that have started to bend. Jumping the car a little bit also didn't help, but those LCAs go through a whole lot of flex while braking as normal, let alone when you hit bumps, potholes, inclines, and uneven road surfaces.

[Ryan S.]

Clint helped me roll up my front fenders. Actually he did all the work as you can see from photo. Now it gives me about an inch clearance when I hit a bump or curve. This mod has a side effect. It pulls out fender and slightly widens fender. I think it actually enhances appearance of the car. I feel much safer now but I will be very slow when going over bumps.

Clint also replaced tie rod boot covers and inspected my front suspension. Fortunately didn't see any issues. Other boot covers need to wait since Clint left his pickle fork at his shop.

By the way, Clint's modified front suspension looks pretty amazing and with his Miata steering set up. Total Frankenstein

3800938011

[DMC-81]

Looks like a great repair Ryan! :thumbup:

How much clearance do you have in the front? It looks like about an inch. How much does a full tank of gas impact the clearance?

[DavidProehl]

Clint helped me roll up my front fenders. Actually he did all the work as you can see from photo. Now it gives me about an inch clearance when I hit a bump or curve. This mod has a side effect. It pulls out fender and slightly widens fender. I think it actually enhances appearance of the car. I feel much safer now but I will be very slow when going over bumps.

Clint also replaced tie rod boot covers and inspected my front suspension. Fortunately didn't see any issues. Other boot covers need to wait since Clint left his pickle fork at his shop.

By the way, Clint's modified front suspension looks pretty amazing and with his Miata steering set up. Total Frankenstein

3800938011

Amazing! You'd never know anything went wrong!

[vwdmc16]

Probably the worst pic of me yet...

[Ryan S.]

Looks like a great repair Ryan! :thumbup:

How much clearance do you have in the front? It looks like about an inch. How much does a full tank of gas impact the clearance?

Yes about an inch. Before this mod, my tire was rubbing the fender when going over a bump. To my surprise, a full tank of gas didn't make much differences. I had 1/4 tank before.

Clint did a great job. I was getting pretty nervous when fender starts flexing in and out as Clint was working with his fender roller. He told me that he has done this several times for racing cars at his shop. Thanks Clint.