General Steering column bushing gone bad. [Archive] - DMCTalk Forum

Bitsyncmaster

10-30-2015, 07:55 PM

My friend came over today and he was showing me how much his steering wheel moved pulling it up and down. Got a flashlight and showed him how the bushing had gone bad. This was replaced about 5 years ago with the soft type bushing. So I went to show him mine and found mine is ready to let go also. Mine is not bad enough to notice when driving. I also replaced mine about 6 years ago with the soft bushing.

So I guess I will have to look at the vendors that have the harder "delrin" type of bushing.

David T

10-30-2015, 08:16 PM

Ron

10-31-2015, 12:26 AM

The "hard" one definitely lasts longer but is also more difficult to install.
+1
5+ years...not worth the trouble for my own car anyway....

PJ Grady Inc.

10-31-2015, 12:25 PM

The "hard" one definitely lasts longer but is also more difficult to install. I had to make a puller out of some threaded rod, pipe nipples, nuts and washers. After I got it in I had trouble with the steering column because it goes through at an angle so I had to file the ID of the bushing so it wouldn't rub so hard when I got the column into position.

I don't know if you got your bushing from us David but you should not have to file our bushing during the install. A few years ago we switched from Delrin to Teflon because it's slightly softer. The "Teflon" bushing installs easier and absorbs vibration better than "Delrin" but is far stronger than the ultra soft "repro" bushing that David M. is referring to. This material offers the best compromise between ease of install, vibration transmission, and durability IMHO.
Rob

David T

10-31-2015, 02:05 PM

I don't know if you got your bushing from us David but you should not have to file our bushing during the install. A few years ago we switched from Delrin to Teflon because it's slightly softer. The "Teflon" bushing installs easier and absorbs vibration better than "Delrin" but is far stronger than the ultra soft "repro" bushing that David M. is referring to. This material offers the best compromise between ease of install, vibration transmission, and durability IMHO.
Rob

Got the bushing from DMCH in '06. It think it was Nylon, I don't know, but it was very stiff. As we all know, the parts can differ depending on who you buy from and when. Especially when it is parts that are sourced and not NOS.

DMC-81

10-31-2015, 04:59 PM

Bitsyncmaster

11-01-2015, 05:17 AM

papanoel

11-01-2015, 08:18 AM

I had the Grady teflon bushing installed last month replacing the soft type. What a difference. The job seemed pretty straightforward. Less than an hour.

Bitsyncmaster

11-01-2015, 10:24 AM

Hi Dave,

I got my bushing (Delrin?) from DMCH in 2013 and asked for instructions. They sent me a PDF doc and I followed them. The installation was straightforward. I didn't have to remove the steering column or cut the bushing.

Easy peasey.

Can you send me that PDF. I assume your bearing was already cut.

I bet someone could design a split bearing that would install without removing the column. Just need a way to hold if from falling out. Maybe a small screw on each half. Maybe a "ziptie" if the top of the bearing was designed for that.

Ron

11-01-2015, 02:05 PM

So it looks like all the bushings just have a little lip that needs to be compressed a little so it goes into the existing hole in the metal plate and then that lip keeps it from falling out.

I wonder if you could cut one of the hard bushings in half and get it installed without pulling the column. I would guess the first half would be easy but the second half not since the column would not have any play to move.

Just asking because my friend does not think he can do the column removal.

I'm going to try Grady's Teflon bushing on my car but I will remove the column.This is how Alex and I did ours over 5 years ago. After doing his soft one I tried a harder one I had and it was no problem. I'm not sure if it was what people are calling "the hard one" here, but it was definitely much harder than his.
We BSed a lot and still had both of them in within a hour. No problems so far....
37731

PJ Grady Inc.

11-01-2015, 02:08 PM

So it looks like all the bushings just have a little lip that needs to be compressed a little so it goes into the existing hole in the metal plate and then that lip keeps it from falling out.

I wonder if you could cut one of the hard bushings in half and get it installed without pulling the column. I would guess the first half would be easy but the second half not since the column would not have any play to move.

Just asking because my friend does not think he can do the column removal.

I'm going to try Grady's Teflon bushing on my car but I will remove the column.

None of the bushings currently available are designed to be cut in half. All must have a lip to stay in place. I believe one supplier does or did at one time sell a delrin bushing without a lip and it had fallen out of a car that came in for service. I won't say who's bushing as they may have changed the design and I'm not going to squeal on them. All I can say if you buy a bushing from a vendor and it has no lip to lock onto the firewall/bulkhead return it as it won't stay put for long. Sometimes there is no shortcut for a proper repair and this is currently one of those cases.
Rob

Bitsyncmaster

11-01-2015, 02:30 PM

I'm just thinking "outside the box". Basically you want the bushing to remain stationary so the steering column rotates on the large surface of the bushing acting as a bearing. If the bushing it rotating in the metal hole it will cut through the bushing pretty quickly.

So it's a lip that keeps the bushing from falling out and hopefully the friction of that lip that keeps it from turning in the steel plate hole.

The bushing needs some play to accommodate the movement of the up/down column adjustment.

SS Spoiler

11-01-2015, 02:35 PM

How about a pillow block [a bearing that swivels] so the steering column
can move up and down?

Bitsyncmaster

11-01-2015, 02:56 PM

How about a pillow block [a bearing that swivels] so the steering column
can move up and down?

Your thinking like me.:hihi:

But I don't know if a hard bearing will transmit vibration to the steering wheel. I've machined many bearing from sintered bronze

DeLorean

11-01-2015, 02:58 PM

I replaced the lower bushing in around 2011, and probably put 10,000 miles on it before it was starting to go bad again. The special-t auto solid bearing I did have to make a tool to press in, but it's been working just dandy ever since.

DMCMW Dave

11-01-2015, 03:01 PM

How about a pillow block [a bearing that swivels] so the steering column
can move up and down?

That would work, but it also needs to be somewhat waterproof. Rubber was a pretty good, albeit not a 30-year, solution to the problem, and cheap. This sort of bearing would be difficult to install as it would need to be screwed to the floor somehow. But it's a good idea (it would be missing some of the damping provided by the rubbery one, but the Delrin bushings are pretty stiff as well)

The delrin bushings are harder to install but hold up well. Delrin is somewhat self-lubricating and has enough "give" to allow the tilt mechanism to work. Where rubber can be molded to shape (cheap) delrin must be machined (not so cheap). Delrin bushings we've seen can be either white or black, no difference other than the material on had the day they were made. Once I a while you see a broken one, but not often.

In the past few months we've replaced two bushings made out of something I've never seen before. Rob may recognize it as they were both cars with very "old work" done to them. The material was kind of translucent tan and rubbery, but different from the ones DMCH was selling before the current black ones. I'd guess they were 10 years old or older. The problem with them is that the center hole in them was much too small, which put a lot of friction in the steering, enough that the return-to-center of the steering didn't work well and make the car very tiring to drive on the highway. The cars felt like the rack was bad or the tie rod ends were sticky, but all the friction was in the bushing. They could probably have been reamed out but I didn't feel like experimenting at the time.

PJ Grady Inc.

11-01-2015, 04:09 PM

That would work, but it also needs to be somewhat waterproof. Rubber was a pretty good, albeit not a 30-year, solution to the problem, and cheap. This sort of bearing would be difficult to install as it would need to be screwed to the floor somehow. But it's a good idea (it would be missing some of the damping provided by the rubbery one, but the Delrin bushings are pretty stiff as well)

The delrin bushings are harder to install but hold up well. Delrin is somewhat self-lubricating and has enough "give" to allow the tilt mechanism to work. Where rubber can be molded to shape (cheap) delrin must be machined (not so cheap). Delrin bushings we've seen can be either white or black, no difference other than the material on had the day they were made. Once I a while you see a broken one, but not often.

In the past few months we've replaced two bushings made out of something I've never seen before. Rob may recognize it as they were both cars with very "old work" done to them. The material was kind of translucent tan and rubbery, but different from the ones DMCH was selling before the current black ones. I'd guess they were 10 years old or older. The problem with them is that the center hole in them was much too small, which put a lot of friction in the steering, enough that the return-to-center of the steering didn't work well and make the car very tiring to drive on the highway. The cars felt like the rack was bad or the tie rod ends were sticky, but all the friction was in the bushing. They could probably have been reamed out but I didn't feel like experimenting at the time.

Can't say I've come across any tan bushings Dave. Maybe someone from the old mid west club like Marty M. or Bruce B. may have some experience with them?
Rob

David T

11-01-2015, 08:26 PM

Can't say I've come across any tan bushings Dave. Maybe someone from the old mid west club like Marty M. or Bruce B. may have some experience with them?
Rob

The bushing I used 10 years ago from DMCH is a tan color. Looks kind of like nylon but it is not white like Nylon. Anyway it was so tight I could hardly get the steering shaft through and once I did I couldn't lift it into position under the dash until I filed away at it. Realizing it could cause enough drag to prevent the wheel from self-returning to center I filed and filed til I had a smooth fit. Didn't take all that much work because it was plastic and I didn't want to overdo it.

DMCMW Dave

11-01-2015, 10:13 PM

The bushing I used 10 years ago from DMCH is a tan color. Looks kind of like nylon but it is not white like Nylon. Anyway it was so tight I could hardly get the steering shaft through and once I did I couldn't lift it into position under the dash until I filed away at it. Realizing it could cause enough drag to prevent the wheel from self-returning to center I filed and filed til I had a smooth fit. Didn't take all that much work because it was plastic and I didn't want to overdo it.

That's probably it. The later ones from DMCH were also tan but a good fit. Then they switched to the black rubber ones.

cpistocco

11-02-2015, 10:45 AM

That's probably it. The later ones from DMCH were also tan but a good fit. Then they switched to the black rubber ones.

Does anyone know the purpose of the black steel slotted tabs that come off after removal of the two upper column nuts? I dropped my column to install a lower bushing, and I think that those tabs may help hold the Binnacle in place. Kinda gaffy...

David T

11-02-2015, 11:06 AM

Does anyone know the purpose of the black steel slotted tabs that come off after removal of the two upper column nuts? I dropped my column to install a lower bushing, and I think that those tabs may help hold the Binnacle in place. Kinda gaffy...

Look up ST-14-9/81 SA-0004 "To firm up the mounting of the instrument cluster housing".

PJ Grady Inc.

11-02-2015, 11:48 AM

Does anyone know the purpose of the black steel slotted tabs that come off after removal of the two upper column nuts? I dropped my column to install a lower bushing, and I think that those tabs may help hold the Binnacle in place. Kinda gaffy...

They were added when DMCL started receiving complaints of dash vibration at highway speeds. It was listed as part # W300001 in a service bulletin. Oddly DMCH doesn't list this part in their inventory or their catalog but I have some in stock.
It was an effective fix for a common problem early in the production run.
Rob

cpistocco

11-02-2015, 09:17 PM

Look up ST-14-9/81 SA-0004 "To firm up the mounting of the instrument cluster housing".

Thank you David.

cpistocco

11-02-2015, 09:17 PM

They were added when DMCL started receiving complaints of dash vibration at highway speeds. It was listed as part # W300001 in a service bulletin. Oddly DMCH doesn't list this part in their inventory or their catalog but I have some in stock.
It was an effective fix for a common problem early in the production run.
Rob

Thank You Mr. Grady.

Bitsyncmaster

11-16-2015, 05:02 PM

David T

11-16-2015, 09:13 PM

I just pulled the old DMC rubber bushing and it does not seem as bad as I thought. The ID is pretty sloppy but the bushing is still intact. The rubber seems hard but I don't really remember how soft it was when I installed it.

What made me think it was bad was the RTV I used to keep the bushing from moving on the steel plate, was not holding at all on the plate. So when I put force on the steering wheel I saw that RTV moving.

The bushing should not be moving around in the bulkhead. If you drove on a bad bushing for a long time the hole would have enlarged and should be fixed before trying to install a new bushing.

Rich_NYS

11-17-2015, 12:25 AM

I'm replacing my bushing soon, I prepped tonite and will complete it when I have someone to assist. I have the Delrin bushing; I'm using a long bolt, large washers, and a large socket to pull the bushing into place. I did the same procedure on my first DeLorean a couple years ago.

I'm not removing the column, just moved it out of the way.

I'll take some pics of the operation & post here.

88KPH

11-17-2015, 05:23 PM

Here you go my American cousins....... :headscratch:

http://deloreans.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6053

refugeefromcalif

11-17-2015, 05:38 PM

Here you go my American cousins....... :headscratch:

http://deloreans.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6053

You have to be a member to view the link... :hmm:

George

cpistocco

11-17-2015, 10:44 PM

Hi Guys
I replaced my bushing.....had to disconnect column.....and now my directional does not cancel on left turns....any ideas? (not really sure if it worked before job).

88KPH

11-18-2015, 02:47 AM

You have to be a member to view the link... :hmm:

George

Haha, ok. I copied and pasted my post........

"Had ago at this today.
Now tried and tested wisdom says there are two ways of fitting these.......
1, Cut Bush in half and shove it in around column.
Or
2, Remove complete steering column, as stated in the workshop manual.

Neither of which appealed to me. So looking for a short cut that gave me a complete steering bush.

Here's what I did.

1, loosen top steering knuckle under bonnet. Remove bolt completely.

2, loosen tilt adjustment under dash.

3, give steering wheel a good yank and intermediate shaft will fall off. Column will just about pull through column Bush.

4, push old Bush out (into car) . Grease and Fit new Bush from the inside of car. I used a 25mm square piece of wood, about a foot long, and hammered it in.

5, Refit in reverse. Making sure column is inserted far enough. I used self-grippers to ensure adjustable column was pulled back out......."

Bitsyncmaster

11-18-2015, 04:22 AM

Haha, ok. I copied and pasted my post........

"Had ago at this today.
Now tried and tested wisdom says there are two ways of fitting these.......
1, Cut Bush in half and shove it in around column.
Or
2, Remove complete steering column, as stated in the workshop manual.

Neither of which appealed to me. So looking for a short cut that gave me a complete steering bush.

Here's what I did.

1, loosen top steering knuckle under bonnet. Remove bolt completely.

2, loosen tilt adjustment under dash.

3, give steering wheel a good yank and intermediate shaft will fall off. Column will just about pull through column Bush.

4, push old Bush out (into car) . Grease and Fit new Bush from the inside of car. I used a 25mm square piece of wood, about a foot long, and hammered it in.

5, Refit in reverse. Making sure column is inserted far enough. I used self-grippers to ensure adjustable column was pulled back out......."

A lot depends on how tight your column center shaft is to sliding on the upper column. Also depends on how tight the splines are on the upper "U" joint. But your way is the least amount of work if you can get that center shaft sliding the way you want it to.

When I pulled my steering wheel, the center column probably slid out 6 or more inches before it released from the upper U joint. So you would want to have your steering wheel adjusted all the way in first, then somehow clamp the center shaft to the column then pull the steering wheel (to end of it's normal adjustment) after you removed the locking bolt off the U joint.

Bitsyncmaster

11-18-2015, 08:10 AM

Do any of you remember if your steering shaft was turned like mine?

Here is a photo of the steering shaft. The shaft has been turned on a lathe for a length of 3.45" from the 1.000" shaft to a 0.986 dia. I wonder if that was done on all the cars?. I would guess they had some binding of the bearing on the upper part of the column.

The dia of the part where the bushing is sitting is 0.557". My new bushing is still pretty sloppy over that part but I guess the bushing does not need to be a tight fit. It needs some clearance to accommodate the tilt adjustment of the steering wheel. The slop is probably also in the OD fitting where the bushing mounts to add to that adjustment angle.

DMCMW Dave

11-18-2015, 08:58 AM

Hi Guys
I replaced my bushing.....had to disconnect column.....and now my directional does not cancel on left turns....any ideas? (not really sure if it worked before job).

Take the steering wheel off and rotate the cancel ring 180 degrees.

cpistocco

11-18-2015, 10:13 PM

Take the steering wheel off and rotate the cancel ring 180 degrees.

Thanks Dave
I thought of doing that ( I may have reinstalled the column 180 degrees out)...... But why is the right turn cancelling fine? Neither should cancel if I am 180 out.
=Charlie

DMCMW Dave

11-19-2015, 11:22 PM

Thanks Dave
I thought of doing that ( I may have reinstalled the column 180 degrees out)...... But why is the right turn cancelling fine? Neither should cancel if I am 180 out.
=Charlie

If it cancels in one direction and not the other, you need this:

http://store.delorean.com/p-7023-dl-wpr-switch.aspx

Unless you can find someone who broke the wiper part. You can move a working wiper switch to a new turn signal ring.

cpistocco

11-20-2015, 12:57 AM

If it cancels in one direction and not the other, you need this:

http://store.delorean.com/p-7023-dl-wpr-switch.aspx

Unless you can find someone who broke the wiper part. You can move a working wiper switch to a new turn signal ring.

Thanks again...... All of you folks are great!
_Charlie

cpistocco

08-29-2017, 10:56 AM

Update-
My bushing popped out about a month ago. I am back at square one....

David T

08-29-2017, 11:36 AM

Update-
My bushing popped out about a month ago. I am back at square one....

If the bushing came out either it wasn't all the way in or the hole in the front bulkhead is enlarged because the bushing was gone and someone drove around a long time without it. If the hole doesn't look circular you have to fix it before trying to install the bushing again. That means some cutting and welding.

Nuclearbacon

08-29-2017, 07:22 PM

Update-
My bushing popped out about a month ago. I am back at square one....

I was also going to add that it probably wasn't seated all the way. I JUST did this job this weekend.

My bushing was... sad. My new one is awesome!

No cutting. No trimming. No alteration to the new bushing. A socket helped drive it home.

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd329/nuclearbacon2008/DeLorean%2010588/Steering/6A18FCD1-F827-47DC-AB0F-78AA3ABB56E0.jpg

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd329/nuclearbacon2008/DeLorean%2010588/Steering/A77241F5-5238-4115-B82E-F2FB7FA8EAFC.jpg

Did have to remove the column. Was nervous. Is back together.

cpistocco

08-29-2017, 11:29 PM

I was also going to add that it probably wasn't seated all the way. I JUST did this job this weekend.

My bushing was... sad. My new one is awesome!

No cutting. No trimming. No alteration to the new bushing. A socket helped drive it home.

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd329/nuclearbacon2008/DeLorean%2010588/Steering/6A18FCD1-F827-47DC-AB0F-78AA3ABB56E0.jpg

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd329/nuclearbacon2008/DeLorean%2010588/Steering/A77241F5-5238-4115-B82E-F2FB7FA8EAFC.jpg

Did have to remove the column. Was nervous. Is back together.

Where did you get that sweet bushing?

Nuclearbacon

08-30-2017, 03:01 AM

Dug through my records and I purchased that bushing from PJ Grady in April of 2015. It's beautius.

From a pm from PJ Grady:

Thanx Luigi the # is the same as DMCH's with a G at the end which means we source it elsewhere.
101994G $24.90. If the site doesn't work for billing (it IS secure if you go through the authorize.net portal) then you can complete the order by calling (800)350-7429.

cpistocco

08-30-2017, 08:43 PM

PJ Grady Inc.

08-31-2017, 05:54 PM

Thank You. :)
It looks better than mine..... :(
We've been making these bushings for about 25 years or so. We've had an ongoing relationship with a local machine shop since the 80's and many of our tried and true machined products are made there to our specifications. A few years ago we switched the material from Delrin to Teflon for a little more vibration dampening effect and have never had a failure in either material. This steering bushing should last the life of the car.
Rob

Nuclearbacon

09-01-2017, 02:58 PM

This steering bushing should last the life of the car.
Rob

Seriously music to my ears :) :) :)

cpistocco

07-03-2019, 12:57 AM

When you turn the steering wheel, the bushing should not turn, right?
Has anyone ever tried to hold the bushing with a sheet metal screw on either side, 180 Degrees apart?

r00b

07-03-2019, 06:02 AM

When you turn the steering wheel, the bushing should not turn, right?
Has anyone ever tried to hold the bushing with a sheet metal screw on either side, 180 Degrees apart?

I think you can use RTV

DMC-81

07-03-2019, 07:51 AM

When you turn the steering wheel, the bushing should not turn, right?
Has anyone ever tried to hold the bushing with a sheet metal screw on either side, 180 Degrees apart?

No, it shouldn't rotate. I agree to try RTV before risking cracking the bushing with screws. I wonder what is causing it to rotate? Mine snapped in there tight. Is it binding or dry, etc.?

Bitsyncmaster

07-03-2019, 08:28 AM

When you turn the steering wheel, the bushing should not turn, right?
Has anyone ever tried to hold the bushing with a sheet metal screw on either side, 180 Degrees apart?

If it's turning your ID on the bushing is to tight. You don't want the bushing to turn or it will quickly cut through the bushing.

cpistocco

07-03-2019, 11:30 AM

Thanks Guys...
I think that maybe the hole in the firewall got sloppy from not having a bushing....and now the new bushing isn't seating tightly. To make matters worse, I had greased everything ahead of time...so there is no way that rtv will stick..
And like everything else on the car, it has been designed in such a way that it is almost impossible to re-engineer it. I was thinking of bolting in a bearing assembly...but the other side of the firewall (where the u-joints attach) is too tight. AND there is that stupid recess around the hole...
And the whole thing is recessed into the firewall...
I could go on and on...
I even thought of using door edge guard molding around the perimeter of the hole, (and skipping the bushing all together). The beauty of that is that you would not need to remove the column...
Not sure if it would be strong enough..
There is no end to the madness... :)

Ron

07-03-2019, 02:09 PM

Riley88

07-03-2019, 03:09 PM

I use tobys and its a masterpice. Also installed the borgeson beefed up steering joint while i was in there. WORTH IT seriously.

DMC-81

07-03-2019, 04:37 PM

Sounds like you have the wrong/dried-out/??? bushing. Like Dave said, the ID is too tight. Odd, especially if the firewall hole is sloppy.

There is a split bushing that doesn't require disassembly and some cut the OEM style with good luck (SpecialT, iirc).

3M Trim Adhesive will hold it in place, but a PITA for the next guy to remove...

+1 on the adhesive. If I understand correctly, he is saying that the metal hole in the firewall is worn/wallowed out from being driven for some time without a bushing in place.

If that's the case, I'd fit a new one with a good adhesive, while ensuring the area is degreased and cleaned first.

Ron

07-03-2019, 09:29 PM

Agreed.
I was thinking if there is enough firewall left for screws to hit, while holding the bushing, and the bushing still spins all greased up, a good adhesive is a better rout than trying to find an oversize bushing or repair the hole etc. And if a tight bushing/mild scars on the shaft are part of it, or not, he be covered either way...
It'll just break in faster. :)

FWIW, I'd use a good rag and spray it with ether to make sure the grove and all gets clean and go for it.

cpistocco

07-03-2019, 11:35 PM

Cleaned it, sprayed it with degreaser, cleaned it again, and epoxied it...and prayed.
I will let everyone know when it fails... :)

cpistocco

07-03-2019, 11:35 PM

Thanks again, everyone, for all of the help. :)

David T

07-04-2019, 11:48 AM

If the car is driven with no bushing for a long time, the hole in the sheet metal can get quite enlarged, to the point where the bushing will no longer fit properly. The fix is to enlarge the hole and make a new piece of sheet metal with the proper size hole and either weld or screw it to the bulkhead. As for the bushing, Rob's bushing is pretty tough. It does not deform much like the original rubber one but it will last a LOT longer. I found that since the steering shaft goes through it at an angle I had to file the ID at an angle so the steering shaft would not drag so much. I also made a puller out of pipe nipples, washers and threaded rod to get that bushing in. The puller is necessary especially if the hole is not enlarged much. With a little lubrication the steering will be nice and smooth again. While the rubber bushing or the 2 piece bushing may be a lot easier to install neither will last as long as the Teflon or Delran bushing Rob sells.