Swapping Air Conditioning Compressors.

[DMCVegas]

Question here: There are a wide variety of A/C compressors that come on different engines. But what specificly goes into the design of an A/C system in terms of compressor size? Is there really all that much of a difference between units?

Or to put it another way, if I'm swapping out an engine and convert the system to R-134a anyway, since I have High & Low Pressure Switches, can I just crimp my own custom hoses to connect up to another brand of A/C Compressor?

[Ron]

Basically yes, if you use a compressor that was intended to be used with an orifice tube, flush out the R12 spec refrigerant and oil, change the accumulator, charge using 10% reduction 134a spec, use spec amount of compatible oil, and change out all old hoses/seals. You may have to adjust the pressure switch (easy using chart in manual).

[DMCVegas]

I knew about the adjustment of the switch based off the EPA retrofit guides. The Condenser I'll flush, but I'm debating just replacing the Evaporator. I have to pull the dash apart to replace a leaking heater core anyways, so what's one more part? Thanks for the info!

Two more quick questions as well:

1. Any experience with a Variable Orifice Valve? Improvements?

2. The engine I'm looking at has an A/C compressor from a FOV system. But, would the compressor on an Expansion Valve system somehow be different?

[Ron]

I knew about the adjustment of the switch based off the EPA retrofit guides. The Condenser I'll flush, but I'm debating just replacing the Evaporator. I have to pull the dash apart to replace a leaking heater core anyways, so what's one more part? Thanks for the info!

Two more quick questions as well:

1. Any experience with a Variable Orifice Valve? Improvements?

2. The engine I'm looking at has an A/C compressor from a FOV system. But, would the compressor on an Expansion Valve system somehow be different?1. Most of them have an adjustment that is within the range needed anyway. The ones for almost all of the older GMs are cheap and plug and play...
2. ?? FOV means "flush out valve" when it comes to A/C for me... did you mean FOT "fixed orifice tube" (cycling clutch orifice tube system)? If so, it's the same thing. Otherwise, some expansion valve (TXV) compressors could work but you would have to check out the specs. What is it off of?

[Bitsyncmaster]

I've tried a VOV in my DeLorean and because the evaporator pipe had a slight bend in it, that jammed the VOV from working at all. I now run standard orifice tubes. I have had other cars that worked with the VOV but I could not say it helped with any more cooling.

[DMCVegas]

1. Most of them have an adjustment that is within the range needed anyway. The ones for almost all of the older GMs are cheap and plug and play...
2. ?? FOV means "flush out valve" when it comes to A/C for me... did you mean FOT "fixed orifice tube" (cycling clutch orifice tube system)? If so, it's the same thing. Otherwise, some expansion valve (TXV) compressors could work but you would have to check out the specs. What is it off of?

EcoBoost 3.5L. It uses an Orifice Tube A/C system, so there's not much concern. And yes, I meant FOT.:blush:

Ford finally released the Control Pack kit for it. Josh says he has the engine mounts and whatnot to mount it (which helps things), and the reverse oil sump pans are available too to fit it around the cross member. Most everything else is out of the GT40 Kitcar parts bins, but I'm just nailing down the bolt pattern. I've debated back and forth about swapping out the transmission, but the cost of a Porsche transaxle, beefing up, and shifter fabrication is pretty much on par with just beefing up the UN-369. Still have plenty of time to get that worked out though.

The current first-gen engines are rated @ 365 bhp w/420 ft. of torque. The second generation engines coming out are rated upwards of 600 bhp w/over 500 ft. of torque. That is what I want. Ford has had some GT prototypes running around Houston. Don't know where they're storing them at, but they keep coming down Hwy 249. About 2 weeks ago at around 10PM on a Sunday night, one of them went past me on the beltway. I heard it long before I saw it, and it sounds nothing like anything I've ever heard before. The driver wasn't showing off or anything, but it was a long, steady echo. From the moment I heard it, I knew I had to have it. I haven't felt that way since I first remember seeing a DeLorean in the wild in 1989. And just like that, it too become this itch I just have to scratch.

This right here so far has been the best video I've seen that captures that sound.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x95ViD9AUsA

[DMCVegas]

I've tried a VOV in my DeLorean and because the evaporator pipe had a slight bend in it, that jammed the VOV from working at all. I now run standard orifice tubes. I have had other cars that worked with the VOV but I could not say it helped with any more cooling.

That is good to know. Thank you!

[Ron]

OH YEAH! If you can get it tied down, that would be bad ass!

Someone here says that sounds like a really POed Bumble Bee. lol

[DMCVegas]

OH YEAH! If you can get it tied down, that would be bad ass!

Someone here says that sounds like a really POed Bumble Bee. lol

I know. More importantly I means that I'm done with my DeLorean and really most cars since I will finally have that merger between massive horsepower and a stainless steel. It does have that angry buzzing, yes. But it echos in this really strange way like in the video. Now granted I know that a big part of that is it's exhaust system, but it's so damn unique that you KNOW it's not just any car coming at you.

My first choice was the Coyote V8, and Tornado even makes a beautiful complete bellhousing adapter solution.

http://www.tornadosportscars.com/NewItems/coyotetorenault.jpg

But I'm not too keen on the length of things and having to worry about clearance against the firewall, or especially that rear cross member. No way in hell am I going to cut it and remove my last line of defense from a rear impact where several hundred pounds of metal com crashing into my spine to either paralyze me, or worse yet kill me. I mean no ill will against anyone else, but I've seen way too many people do that with LSx & 2JZ engines and it's just not something I'm willing to do.

But I've got an engine compartment made for a 90° V engine, so even on a 60° with twin turbos mounted, I've got room. And they dump to the rear giving me enough space to cram in dual catalytic converters and then a dual exhaust system that might just fit the Stage/Spec mufflers. If not, we'll figure something out. If I go with intercoolers, I'm going to implement what Robert with DeLotus did with his charge cooler setup. I'm not totally home free yet as there are no Cyclone Bellhousing assemblies or adapters for Renault UN Transaxles. All I can currently find are SBF, SBC, and Ford Modular. But I'm pretty confident that we'll have complete bellhousings shortly enough for the GT-40/GT kit car crowds, and I've got plenty of time. I'm not going into this half-assed. I want to have all sides covered, and ready to go when I pull the trigger on this.

Though the biggest PITA so far is trying to figure out how to install the Drive By Wire accelerator pedal & clutch switches. Hopefully a lengthened set of wires won't be a problem...

[Nicholas R]

But I'm not too keen on the length of things and having to worry about clearance against the firewall, or especially that rear cross member. No way in hell am I going to cut it and remove my last line of defense from a rear impact where several hundred pounds of metal com crashing into my spine to either paralyze me, or worse yet kill me. I mean no ill will against anyone else, but I've seen way too many people do that with LSx & 2JZ engines and it's just not something I'm willing to do.


How many LSx swaps have you seen this on? I'm not aware of any LS swap where the rear frame member was removed. As far as I know, all that are currently on the road (4 now?) still have both the rear steel frame member and the foam impact bumper. Maybe the photos you've seen were just with that piece unbolted. Many people make the piece bolt on instead of welded, in order to make it easier to get the drivetrain in and out (any longer drivetrain than stock pretty much requires it). This is something that people have been doing to DeLoreans for years; even stock ones. On the Pearce SS frames, that piece came as a bolt on piece.

Also, that tornado stuff is nice, but be aware that the bellhousing only supports the differential in the GT40 orientation (engine in front of transmission), not the reverse. Using that bellhousing would still require some chopping and modifying.

[DMCVegas]

How many LSx swaps have you seen this on? I'm not aware of any LS swap where the rear frame member was removed. As far as I know, all that are currently on the road (4 now?) still have both the rear steel frame member and the foam impact bumper. Maybe the photos you've seen were just with that piece unbolted. Many people make the piece bolt on instead of welded, in order to make it easier to get the drivetrain in and out (any longer drivetrain than stock pretty much requires it). This is something that people have been doing to DeLoreans for years; even stock ones. On the Pearce SS frames, that piece came as a bolt on piece.

It's a possibility. I could have sworn that I've also seen another picture of a V8 swap where the Rear Closing Panel had to have a niche cut into it to accommodate a water pump pulley. If not, that's great news to hear since the Coyote is about the same size if I went with that one instead.

I also remember the Pearce frames. I love the revised design for the TABs implemented into that one.


Also, that tornado stuff is nice, but be aware that the bellhousing only supports the differential in the GT40 orientation (engine in front of transmission), not the reverse. Using that bellhousing would still require some chopping and modifying.

Won't know until I got it since I can't find a direct picture of the part itself, but it's something I'm prepared for. If It can be done to a UN1 from an Esprit to accommodate the flipped Ring Gear, it shouldn't be a problem for an aftermarket bellhousing. If nothing else, GT Racing already has the flipped adaptor for the DeLorean application, so who knows if they might not be the source for something a bit more turnkey as well?

[Nicholas R]

It's a possibility. I could have sworn that I've also seen another picture of a V8 swap where the Rear Closing Panel had to have a niche cut into it to accommodate a water pump pulley. If not, that's great news to hear since the Coyote is about the same size if I went with that one instead.

I also remember the Pearce frames. I love the revised design for the TABs implemented into that one.



Won't know until I got it since I can't find a direct picture of the part itself, but it's something I'm prepared for. If It can be done to a UN1 from an Esprit to accommodate the flipped Ring Gear, it shouldn't be a problem for an aftermarket bellhousing. If nothing else, GT Racing already has the flipped adaptor for the DeLorean application, so who knows if they might not be the source for something a bit more turnkey as well?

I made a small notch in my bumper frame to accommodate the nose of the pulley. The surrounding area was reinforced with gussets and extra steel plate to compensate (plus the support of the rectangular tubing inside the foam bumper). I think mine is the only one that required this though because the others used the later lower profile waterpump pulleys.

Tornado is a US distributor for GTO Racing. Here's what the Ford bellhousing looks like. Its only got the differential recess on one side so it will need modified to run the opposite direction.

38366

[Ron]

Would an inline electric water pump possibly help with clearance problems??

[Nicholas R]

Would an inline electric water pump possibly help with clearance problems??

Its possible that it could. I considered it for a while but those pumps are pretty expensive, and typically they're geared more around race cars than daily drivers. Plus all of the electric waterpumps I've seen still have a full size pulley that acts as an idler so that the belt routing doesn't have to change; it may end up still taking up the same amount of space. Would definitely want to take good measurements beforehand to be sure.

[DMCVegas]

That makes sense given the idea behind the electric water pumps are more to reduce parasitic loss for racing rather than size concerns for custom engine installations.

[Ron]

Plus all of the electric waterpumps I've seen still have a full size pulley that acts as an idler so that the belt routing doesn't have to change; it may end up still taking up the same amount of space. No-no...inline/remote (sorry). EG use a custom length belt/idler, this guy,

38382 Summit (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mez-wp116shd/overview/),


and something like,
38383Summit (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-63513/overview/).

[at88mph]

I could have sworn that I've also seen another picture of a V8 swap where the Rear Closing Panel had to have a niche cut into it to accommodate a water pump pulley. If not, that's great news to hear since the Coyote is about the same size if I went with that one instead.



You may be thinking of my swap with the 4.3. I had to run a short water pump and also notch out the rear panel slightly to accommodate it. HOWEVER that was because at the time, I was running a stock auto trans and had to use a custom bellhousing to fit the torque converter. The bellhousing was HUGE! Back then (2001) there weren't near as many engine swaps as there are now and I REALLY wanted to go LS6, but there was NO WAY with the auto trans. Now that I have a 915 trans, the bellhousing is probably not even a 1/4 of the size of the auto and I could easily fit a longer/bigger engine (ie LSx series if/once the 4.3 Vortec dies)

[RoyHinkley]

1. Most of them have an adjustment that is within the range needed anyway. The ones for almost all of the older GMs are cheap and plug and play...
2. ?? FOV means "flush out valve" when it comes to A/C for me... did you mean FOT "fixed orifice tube" (cycling clutch orifice tube system)? If so, it's the same thing. Otherwise, some expansion valve (TXV) compressors could work but you would have to check out the specs. What is it off of?

If you work in a bio lab, FOV means "field of view" as with microscopes.