Starter Relay Mod

[Masaes727]

I have a VIN number that falls into the range that should have the mod performed. However, due to a PO rewiring of the fan fail socket, that resulted in a small electrical short. i.e. the whole relay strip pretty much melted. I had to install a new relay strip. I was able to acquire a used stripe from DMCMW, thanks. Everything was wired in correctly already, accept the fan fail socket, but with some help, DMCMW and bitsyncmaster, that too was finally wired correctly. Now this brings me to my issue. When driving if my fans kick on, the car upon the next time of starting will, when turning the key to start, do everything, except, engage the starter. It will prime the fuel pump, etc.., but no starter, not even a clicking sound of a low battery. I have to basically jump the starter with a pair of needle nose pliers to make the car start. After which the car will be fine until the fans run again. Prior to having my fans running, about a year or so, I had a toggle switch installed on them. I could turn them on and off and it never affected the starting or not starting of the car. I did have the same problem before of non-starting, but they were seemingly rare events. Those times after a few turns of the key it would correct it self. Trouble shooting so far: I have a fairly new, 3 month old optima red top battery, new 140 amp altenator, a new battery + connector and I put dielectric grease on all the relay terminals. I tried to do the starter mod, but when looking at the diagram and at my relay strip nothing matches. I have no red/white wire and the only relay spot that is jumpered is the dome light relay socket, It is a white/purple wire. I also, haven't the slighest clue as to which relay belongs to the starter. Which may be the root of my problem?!?! Any help would be appreciatted.

[Ron]

Was everything OK for a long time between fixing the fan fail socket and when this problem showed up?

Have you tried jumping it with another vehicle when it does this?

Does it crank EVERY time if you shut it off before the fans come on?

[Masaes727]

It was good for a long time before the fix. It was even good for a little bit after the fix. Now you can guarantee it will not start again after having the fans kick on. It will start like a champ every time if the fans do not come on. Even if it has sat over week. This evening I drove for about an hour or so, fans came on twice. As soon as I got home and turned the car off. I tried to restart it immediately and it would not start. Even in the morning when I try to start it nothing will happen. But, if I go do the starter jump now, it will be good to go until the next time the fans come on as they are supposed too.

[Ron]

Have you tried jumping it with another vehicle when it does this?

[Masaes727]

I have not tried that. But by jumping the starter, there is no delay and it starts up as normal. All be it, with me under the car.

[Ron]

I have not tried that. But by jumping the starter, there is no delay and it starts up as normal. All be it, with me under the car.Sorry...neighbor came by to drop off a car...
Anyway, mine acted the same way. I thought the alternator was not replenishing what it took to start it since it would only start if I jumped the starter, jumped it off, or rarely if I let it sit over night, especially after reading about the upgrade. It turned out to be the brand new NAPA Gold 850CCA Battery. (I know it really don't make a lot of sense with it being OK after sitting all night, but that is all I replaced, and, when I tried putting it back in later, it did the same thing.) Try jumping it with another car (or swapping with a known good battery) just for kicks next time....

[Bitsyncmaster]

With the starter mod installed, it's real easy to get the always "hot" 12 volt wire put on the load side of the blower circuit breaker. If that has been done and the breaker pops you will get nothing when trying to start the engine until that breaker closes again.

You need to find which brown wire is always hot. Then the starter mod brown wire has to be mated with that hot wire. The other two brown wires go to the other breaker post.

My breaker has BATT and LOAD marked on it. Not sure if it only works one way or not but follow that marking when you wire it.

[Masaes727]

Which relay in the strip do I need to put the mod wire on? On my strip, none of the wire colors correspond to the ones listed on the dmc tech sheet, i.e. red/white wire. I was told to have the mod brown wire attatched to the bat post on the breaker.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Which relay in the strip do I need to put the mod wire on? On my strip, none of the wire colors correspond to the ones listed on the dmc tech sheet, i.e. red/white wire. I was told to have the mod brown wire attatched to the bat post on the breaker.

See the relay marked starter on mine.

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3566&d=1313344002

The schematic labels that relay as Start Inhibit relay. That is the one modified. There was no brown wire on it. The brown wire was part of the recall kit.

[sean]

Assuming your relays are still in their appropriate spot, #29:

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2559&d=1310439243

[Masaes727]

Thanks, I will go look at that now. I will have to eat some crow this am though. It did actually start as normal, even though the fans had came on prior, last night. Could it be a problem in the ignition switch??

[Masaes727]

Though I now feel like I should wear a helmet while walking. I have the mod installed. Thanks to all of you that helped out. I almost went full retard on this one.

[Addy]

Hi Everyone,

Sorry to dig this thread up from the grave, but I'm about to do this mod and have a couple questions:

1: Does it matter which post on the circuit breaker the brown wire is attached to?
2: I have been having some non-start issues that I thought were symptoms of a bad starter solenoid. After installing the Eagle starter, the same issues are continuing. Is it reasonably likely that the mod will fix those issues?

[Bitsyncmaster]

Hi Everyone,

Sorry to dig this thread up from the grave, but I'm about to do this mod and have a couple questions:

1: Does it matter which post on the circuit breaker the brown wire is attached to?
2: I have been having some non-start issues that I thought were symptoms of a bad starter solenoid. After installing the Eagle starter, the same issues are continuing. Is it reasonably likely that the mod will fix those issues?

I don't think it matters on the breaker but I did see some breakers marked "load" and "battery".

Yes I think all the cars should get this fix to get full voltage to the starter solenoid.

[robvanderveer]

Dave,

Thank you for making all these mods. Welmoed showed a few of the new ones to me today. I am especially impressed by the solid state starter relay. We exchanged some thoughts, i had the feeling he really liked my 'Declock'. And your Courtesy Light Delay Module works super, even after so many years.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Dave,

Thank you for making all these mods. Welmoed showed a few of the new ones to me today. I am especially impressed by the solid state starter relay. We exchanged some thoughts, i had the feeling he really liked my 'Declock'. And your Courtesy Light Delay Module works super, even after so many years.

I don't sell or use my solid state starter relay anymore. There is just to much inductive damaging voltages on that circuit to guarantee the solid state relay will last. Besides, it's only powered during cranking the engine so silent and lower power does not gain you anything. When I had my bulkhead connectors pulled, one fell onto some of the pins of another connector and the starter relay blew out shorted. Needless to say I should have had the battery disconnected but that got done very quickly.:banghead:

[robvanderveer]

I consider that a learningcurve :)

Nevertheless, thank you for your contributions to the community. I'm in a good mood, so take the compliment please.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I consider that a learningcurve :)

Nevertheless, thank you for your contributions to the community. I'm in a good mood, so take the compliment please.

Thanks.