First time driving DeLorean, overheated, coolant leak, and smoking

[Time Machine]

Any ideas what this could be? I rent for five minutes in the gauge got up to the first orange line. I cut it of and looked behind the car and coolant is everywhere and its smoking.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=p8m1cM1Djq0

[Time Machine]

3895238952

38953

[88KPH]

Mate. You really need to of opened up the covers and have a look where it's coming from.
From the amount and placement I'd guess old coolant bottles splitting or hose split.

[Time Machine]

Car no longer starts. Just chugs and chugs :(

[Time Machine]

Anyone have any contacts in New Orleans for a DeLorean mechanic?

[dn010]

Unless it is bypassed, the 3 brown wires that are supposed to attach to the alternator are clipped & hanging. If it is bypassed (I bypassed mine) and the bulkhead side is disconnected then clip the wires down or tie strap them so they're not getting caught or burned.

Without opening the engine compartment it is not possible to tell you what is wrong.

[Jonathan]

What might have initially caused that could have been as simple as the cooling fans not coming on. Or it could have been something else entirely.

I would recommend getting it towed home and doing some diagnostic work and repairs in your own driveway or garage and not out in a public parking lot. If it won't start, that too could be a bunch of different reasons. Some related to the coolant overflow or some that aren't. A lot of guessing at this point and not much of it will correct any significant issues as it sits right now.

I would really not suggest trying to drive it home as it is. That's for your safety and the car. Whatever isn't a problem at the moment could get worse if you are driving a surprise.

Get it home, take a break, relax and don't panic. After that, go through the car systematically and test things one at a time. Testing the cooling fans to see if they come on is a very easy assignment to break you in. You'll also be able to determine if the coolant leaking came from the overflow hose via the reservoir bottle car or whether it did indeed come from a split or ruptured hose.

As I said, get it towed home and do not risk filling it with more coolant while you don't know what happened. You will save yourself a lot of money and grief regardless of how expensive you think that tow truck might cost today.

[Jonathan]

Unless it is bypassed, the 3 brown wires that are supposed to attach to the alternator are clipped & hanging. If it is bypassed (I bypassed mine) and the bulkhead side is disconnected then clip the wires down or tie strap them so they're not getting caught or burned.

Without opening the engine compartment it is not possible to tell you what is wrong.

Thought of something else you can check quickly...

When you turn the key in the ignition to accessories only, but do not start (or try to start) the engine, do you get the battery warning light on the right hand side lit up?

The cars must have that light bulb coming on during that start-up/test stage or the charging system will not be working correctly. I don't know what your battery volts are doing, nor the alternator belt (I could only see a small portion of it in the photos), but that same belt drives the water pump. If the water pump isn't moving coolant around, it will overheat tout suite.

Robert mentioned something I think was very valuable advice (for anyone) in your "should I drive it home from Montana" thread. He advised doing a stationary idle test where you let the car sit and run long enough to see the temperature come up, the cooling fans come on, and the temperature go back down again. No one wants to hear any "hindsight is 20/20" comments, but this test may have helped prevent this. Not for certain though, we won't know until you figure out what caused it in the first place. That idle test, being it might take 10 minutes to get up to temp on some cars, gives you ample time while you wait to check other things on the car like all the lights and switches and whatnot. I think that is a really good thing to do with a new car before taking it for a drive.

[Time Machine]

Thought of something else you can check quickly...

When you turn the key in the ignition to accessories only, but do not start (or try to start) the engine, do you get the battery warning light on the right hand side lit up?

The cars must have that light bulb coming on during that start-up/test stage or the charging system will not be working correctly. I don't know what your battery volts are doing, nor the alternator belt (I could only see a small portion of it in the photos), but that same belt drives the water pump. If the water pump isn't moving coolant around, it will overheat tout suite.

Robert mentioned something I think was very valuable advice (for anyone) in your "should I drive it home from Montana" thread. He advised doing a stationary idle test where you let the car sit and run long enough to see the temperature come up, the cooling fans come on, and the temperature go back down again. No one wants to hear any "hindsight is 20/20" comments, but this test may have helped prevent this. Not for certain though, we won't know until you figure out what caused it in the first place. That idle test, being it might take 10 minutes to get up to temp on some cars, gives you ample time while you wait to check other things on the car like all the lights and switches and whatnot. I think that is a really good thing to do with a new car before taking it for a drive.

Thanks, I got it home, but I'm having trouble finding those fans…
Sure enough it starts up just fine even and 40° weather. But I'm terrified to drive her or let it idle.

[DavidProehl]

The cooling fans are in the front of the car, behind the radiator. There is a plastic shroud that holds them. They look like this (image from DAP's website):

38971

You should be able to hear them turn on. When you start the car there is no sound up front apart from the fuel pump, then when the car gets warm...about 210F I think...they turn on. Just watch your temp guauge. If it gets above 220 and you don't hear the fans turn the car off. You can also manually turn them on by shorting the wires to the otterstat (https://store.delorean.com/p-6348-cooling-fan-switch-with-seal-otterstat.aspx). If the fans don't turn on when the car is hot, but do turn on when you short the otterstat wires, then you need a new otterstat. If the fans don't turn on when you short the wires, then your fan relay (if you still have one) or the fan jumper fuses are likely bad.

[dn010]

Did you drive it or tow it home? You should be looking at your cooling system to see why it dumped coolant - or take it to a mechanic. Otherwise, you're headaches will get much worse.



Thanks, I got it home, but I'm having trouble finding those fans…
Sure enough it starts up just fine even and 40° weather. But I'm terrified to drive her or let it idle.

[sdg3205]

Forgive me if you have already answered this, but did you use a pressure tester to bleed and test the system? It's the best way for DIY'ers like us, and even then it can take a long time to burp it properly without DPNW's auto bleeders.

Do your fans come on when your turn the AC to MAX? if so, jump the spades at the otterstat to confirm fan function leave it jumped for now. If your car STILL overheats (don't let it pass 220) you have air in the system. Heck, with fans jumped you'd have a hard time just getting to operating temp.

EDIT - also check your fan circuit breaker. Change it out if its original. I have seen those overheat and fail to engage the fans. I have the burn on my index finger to remind me.

[Jonathan]

Thanks, I got it home, but I'm having trouble finding those fans…
Sure enough it starts up just fine even and 40° weather. But I'm terrified to drive her or let it idle.

Glad to hear you got it home. Towed or under its own power?

I'd still like to know what the answer to that battery warning light question I asked was. It will help with the overall diagnostics for you and your car.

You could perhaps take a couple photos of the fuse and relay area behind the passenger seat (under the loose carpet piece covering the parcel shelf and then under that piece of plywood you see there) and post here online. Most guys here could help you spot some aspect of the fuses, relays or circuit breakers that isn't right, if that's the case.

Burping/bleeding air from the coolant system is a very good idea, as mentioned. That might have been the only problem all along.

[sdg3205]

One thing I did that other people may like to consider is wiring the fan fail light back into reverse function. I have Toby's fans which are almost inaudible. This way when I'm watching the temp gauge in traffic I can watch for the fan fail lamp too. When the fans kick on "fan fail" illuminates. It's backwards but just a bit more peace o' mind.

[burch]

One thing I did that other people may like to consider is wiring the fan fail light back into reverse function. I have Toby's fans which are almost inaudible. This way when I'm watching the temp gauge in traffic I can watch for the fan fail lamp too. When the fans kick on "fan fail" illuminates. It's backwards but just a bit more peace o' mind.

That's an interesting idea. I was thinking of having some sort of LED based indicator when the fans were on...your idea is better :)

[sdg3205]

I'm pretty sure 'my' idea is one of Dave McKeen's ideas!

[Jonathan]

I'm pretty sure 'my' idea is one of Dave McKeen's ideas!

A little old school here... this DMCNews page talks about the cooling fan modifications circa 1997:

http://www.dmcnews.com/Techsection/fans.htm

And the "Zine" reference, 1st edition link at bottom of page:

http://www.webring.org/l/rd?ring=dmc12;id=5;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Edmcnews% 2Ecom%2F

Although it seems to be more about modifying the relays and sockets for a lot more than just changing the operation of that fan fail warning light. Anyone know where just those instructions can be found?

[Bitsyncmaster]

When people run the OEM fans I can see the reason to use two fan relays but even that, I don't think the two fans would ever go above 40 amps.

If you run my fan fail and my AC led board, you do get a fan running LED behind the fan symbol. It's a pretty low current circuit so you may not see it unless your looking for it. I was able to do that with stock wiring by driving minus 5 volts over the fan fail light wire and then the AC led board uses that negative voltage to power the LED.

[Josh]

I'm pretty sure 'my' idea is one of Dave McKeen's ideas!

I rewired my light to do this as well. I thought I was being all creative and original. Darn.

[dn010]

Back in the DML days I did Ken M's trick here: http://www.time-traveler.org/delorean/cooling.htm

Either way, it is good to have some sort of mod to show you when the fans are at least getting juice.

[BladeBronson]

I would guess that the plastic coolant bottle cracked. This is a common problem and is solved with a stainless steel bottle: http://store.delorean.com/p-6304-header-bottle-assy.aspx

My original bottle blew when I was on the highway one night and the car exhibited the same symptoms (lots of steam and a giant puddle of coolant under the right rear corner of the car).

[88KPH]

I can't understand why the OP hasn't told us where the coolant has come from, or did I miss it?

I've removed my A/C panel to replace some bulbs, (see my thread if interested) and found the PO had removed 'Fan Fail' bulb.
Any reason for this? Or just bad maintenance?

[DMCVegas]

Whatever advise I could give on how to fix this is absolutely useless at this point since I'm not there, and really, nor are any of us. What you have to do is Get Back to Basics.


Get a Workshop Manual.
Pressure Test the Cooling System - Repair any leaks.
Pressure Test the Radiator Cap - Replace if necessary.
If you have the early VIN Plumbing where the pipe runs next to the A/C Compressor, and the Otterstat is mounted on TOP of the pipe, replace it with the superseded hardware.
Bypass the Otterstat, and Verify that BOTH Fans turn on - Troubleshoot power if none present (both at the source, and at the fans), and Troubleshoot inoperative Cooling Fans.
Test the Otterstat - Replace if necessary.
Test the Thermostat - Replace if necessary (Get one with a bleeder hole).
Drain/Refill/Bleed the entire Cooling System.
At this point, the car is ready to go and will not have a problem.


It's honestly not that hard, and going down through this checklist is actually not only much faster, but easier and more satisfying than trying to diagnose issues and chase ghost problems around. Most of all, you'll completely sort out your whole system and not have to worry about it.

[Riley88]

ALot of great info in this thread. I would follow up time machine, let us know more. MORE PICTURES! And as stated, be sure to verify on your ac panel your fans are kicking on, or even getting power. I had a similiar issue which turned out to be the original radiator blowers failed, so i installed Toby's which run wonderfully.

[DMCVegas]

ALot of great info in this thread. I would follow up time machine, let us know more. MORE PICTURES! And as stated, be sure to verify on your ac panel your fans are kicking on, or even getting power. I had a similiar issue which turned out to be the original radiator blowers failed, so i installed Toby's which run wonderfully.

Using the A/C to trigger the fans will verify the fans work when electricity is applied, but it doesn't test the Otterstat's function. That is precisely why I left that out. That's a completely different circuit/system that is best left alone for now.

[Time Machine]

The cooling fans are in the front of the car, behind the radiator. There is a plastic shroud that holds them. They look like this (image from DAP's website):

38971

You should be able to hear them turn on. When you start the car there is no sound up front apart from the fuel pump, then when the car gets warm...about 210F I think...they turn on. Just watch your temp guauge. If it gets above 220 and you don't hear the fans turn the car off. You can also manually turn them on by shorting the wires to the otterstat (https://store.delorean.com/p-6348-cooling-fan-switch-with-seal-otterstat.aspx). If the fans don't turn on when the car is hot, but do turn on when you short the otterstat wires, then you need a new otterstat. If the fans don't turn on when you short the wires, then your fan relay (if you still have one) or the fan jumper fuses are likely bad.
When it reaches 200 degrees, only one of the fans come on. So that may be the problem... Car definitely doesn't like to sit in one place. Put some fuel stabilizer in her, but she still runs sluggish... I'll ipload another video in a second.

[DMCVegas]

When it reaches 200 degrees, only one of the fans come on. So that may be the problem...

Check for electrical continuity to ensure everything is good there. But honestly, you're probably going to have to replace BOTH fans. As I found, if one is bad, so is the other. In my case it was a mixture of debris and dirty water not draining out of the motor housings properly.

Now if you're in a jam, some electric motor cleaning spray (like this) (http://www.eastwood.com/crc-lectra-motive-electric-parts-cleaner.html) and a 2 lbs. sledge hammer will get you going for a little while. Use the spray to wash out the corrosion, and then use the sledge with some solid knocks to get things loosened up further, and wash out again. Let it dry out, and then test again.

But make no mistake, you WILL have to replace those fans. Even if you get them working again, you'll risk lower CFM and a higher load on your electrical system.

[Rich_NYS]

If you run my fan fail and my AC led board, you do get a fan running LED behind the fan symbol. It's a pretty low current circuit so you may not see it unless your looking for it. I was able to do that with stock wiring by driving minus 5 volts over the fan fail light wire and then the AC led board uses that negative voltage to power the LED.


I rewired my light to do this as well. I thought I was being all creative and original. Darn.


One thing I did that other people may like to consider is wiring the fan fail light back into reverse function. I have Toby's fans which are almost inaudible. This way when I'm watching the temp gauge in traffic I can watch for the fan fail lamp too. When the fans kick on "fan fail" illuminates. It's backwards but just a bit more peace o' mind.


Great idea. I have Toby's fans too, so I'll plan to use one of these ideas.

[Andrew]

One thing I did that other people may like to consider is wiring the fan fail light back into reverse function. I have Toby's fans which are almost inaudible. This way when I'm watching the temp gauge in traffic I can watch for the fan fail lamp too. When the fans kick on "fan fail" illuminates. It's backwards but just a bit more peace o' mind.

I have found this to be a great mod on both of my Deloreans. I even removed the A/C panel and used a toothpick with black paint to cover the word "fail" from behind so now it just says "Cooling Fan" :-)

[88KPH]

I'm behind the A/C panel now....(waiting for LED's) How is this conversion done?
Simple words and pictures please! :popcorn:

[Bitsyncmaster]

I have found this to be a great mod on both of my Deloreans. I even removed the A/C panel and used a toothpick with black paint to cover the word "fail" from behind so now it just says "Cooling Fan" :-)

But it's a red light. Should be green.

[cybercusp]

One thing I did that other people may like to consider is wiring the fan fail light back into reverse function. I have Toby's fans which are almost inaudible. This way when I'm watching the temp gauge in traffic I can watch for the fan fail lamp too. When the fans kick on "fan fail" illuminates. It's backwards but just a bit more peace o' mind.

I have this mod too and agree that it's peace of mind as well as diagnostic.
Last summer I was getting temp gauge readings that were moderately beyond normal operation. I run Toby's fans which are quiet and couldn't hear them but could see the Fan Fail light was on indicating the fans were running; but it was flickering instead of the normal solid illumination to indicate the fans running. The flickering was my indicator that the fans were only getting intermittent power from a failing Fan Circuit Breaker. Replacing the Fan Circuit Breaker resolved the issue.

[Time Machine]

I can't understand why the OP hasn't told us where the coolant has come from, or did I miss it?

I haven't found with the coolant came from and it hasn't happened since… I think it may have just boiled over out of the overflow bowl. I've also caught the flu and I'm trying to figure this stuff out.

[hmcelraft]

You have a problem. If the coolant came from the overflow it would have been out of the overflow hose in the back, not all over under the coolant bottle. The coolant bottle, if broken, will leak out of the coolant bottle break and the rest of the coolant will come out more slowly as you drive. The OEM plastic type coolant bottles almost all break, eventually, unless modified, across the bottom seam. You should get a pressure tester (advance auto may have a loaner) and see if the system will pressurize or expose the leak since you cannot see it.

[Citizen]

Back in the DML days I did Ken M's trick here: http://www.time-traveler.org/delorean/cooling.htm

Either way, it is good to have some sort of mod to show you when the fans are at least getting juice.

I would like to do this mod as well. Here are the words taken from Ken's pages cited above.


If you want to know when your fans are running, solder on 1 more wire and a spade connector from the power input of the relay and plug it into the connector just above the power input lug. Then, every time the fans come on, the 'Cooling Fan Fail' light will come on. Just use some black tape to cover the word 'Fail'.

I'm not familiar with what is the "power input" of the relay, and what is the "power input lug". Anyone have any pictures of this mode? Maybe a diagram of the relay showing what's what?

...

[Bitsyncmaster]

I would like to do this mod as well. Here are the words taken from Ken's pages cited above.



I'm not familiar with what is the "power input" of the relay, and what is the "power input lug". Anyone have any pictures of this mode? Maybe a diagram of the relay showing what's what?

...

If you add the extra wire onto one of the fused connectors it would show you that one fan is running and the fuse is not blown. Probably easier to add the extra wire there anyway because only one wire is in that lug.

[David T]

If you add the extra wire onto one of the fused connectors it would show you that one fan is running and the fuse is not blown. Probably easier to add the extra wire there anyway because only one wire is in that lug.

Replace the Otterstat switch and seal and make sure you have the uprated circuit breaker for the cooling fans. Check for any overheated wiring. Check that the fans are not loose on the fan motor shafts and are blowing in the correct direction and both fans are blowing air. You may also have a sticking thermostat so it should be replaced. Test the pressure cap and the anti-freeze. Pressure test for leaks and bleed all the air out. If it still overheats test for a bad head gasket.

[Ryan S.]

I would like to do this mod as well. Here are the words taken from Ken's pages cited above.



I'm not familiar with what is the "power input" of the relay, and what is the "power input lug". Anyone have any pictures of this mode? Maybe a diagram of the relay showing what's what?

...

Here is the link to fan on indicator light mod
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?9664-Cooling-fan-on-indicator-light