Starter Solenoid replacement - what to do?

[82DMC12]

Hi guys,

Been awhile!

I was going to take my car out for a drive today but it would not crank. Battery tested fine. I took off the starter wires for a good cleaning , but during re-installation the positive terminal snapped off. So now, at a minimum, I need to replace the solenoid.

This is the PR starter which was rebuilt once 10 to 15 years ago.

I also have the DMCH stage 1 exhaust. It doesn't look like the starter is coming out with the header connected. It might have enough room if I remove the solenoid first. Is it no problem to put a new solenoid on the starter without removing the starter from the car? I am worried about small pieces or lining something up that I can't see with it up in the engine cradle. If it is not problem at all, I might just replace the solenoid.

If it is best to pull the whole starter out, which aftermarket starter is recommended? I see DPI sells one at a good price, for not much more than a solenoid.

Thanks for the advice.
Andy

[Ryan King]

I will be monitoring this thread. I have to do the EXACT same thing. Except my starter sometimes get stuck in engaged mode and tries to crank all on its own.

[82DMC12]

Well I got the solenoid off of the starter, no problem. There is a spring in there too but it would be pretty hard to mess up installing. However the starter will not come out without removing the exhaust header :-(

Does anyone carry the OEM Paris Rhone CED 438 solenoid? I'd rather not risk breaking manifold studs and such just for this.

[DMC-81]

I know Rob Grady has a few. I just bought one.

[82DMC12]

I know Rob Grady has a few. I just bought one.

Great, thanks for the tip!! I will be in NYC next week but sadly not enough time to visit Rob. I'll be in Queens/Brooklyn.

Andy

[Andrew]

You could open the solenoid and clean the contacts. I encountered a similar problem with 5052's starter last year. Once I had the starter out of the car, I removed the solenoid, opened it up and used a dremel tool to clean the contact points. After that, I sprayed some contact cleaner on the parts and greesed the moving parts with dielectric grease.

I reinstalled it and it has been working great ever since! :-)

Andrew
4194
5052

[82DMC12]

You could open the solenoid and clean the contacts. I encountered a similar problem with 5052's starter last year. Once I had the starter out of the car, I removed the solenoid, opened it up and used a dremel tool to clean the contact points. After that, I sprayed some contact cleaner on the parts and greesed the moving parts with dielectric grease.

I reinstalled it and it has been working great ever since! :-)

Andrew
4194
5052

Right - I haven't bothered to open it up yet since the positive stud broke off - about half the stud is gone, not enough to hold the lugs. I wonder if the stud could be replaced... actually that would probably cost more than just buying a new solenoid!

I'll open it up though and see what it looks like. I do want to understand what the problem was. The key turned, fuel pump primed (I have Bitsyncmaster's SS RPM relay), and when turning the key forward, a relay in the back compartment clicked but no engine turning. Looking at the circuit, it really can't be anything BUT a bad connection on the solenoid or the solenoid itself.

Andy

[PJ Grady Inc.]

Right - I haven't bothered to open it up yet since the positive stud broke off - about half the stud is gone, not enough to hold the lugs. I wonder if the stud could be replaced... actually that would probably cost more than just buying a new solenoid!

I'll open it up though and see what it looks like. I do want to understand what the problem was. The key turned, fuel pump primed (I have Bitsyncmaster's SS RPM relay), and when turning the key forward, a relay in the back compartment clicked but no engine turning. Looking at the circuit, it really can't be anything BUT a bad connection on the solenoid or the solenoid itself.

Andy
The 8mm studs are brass with the specially shaped heads making the contact to the plunger plate and are not generally available. The other issue which is usually the deal breaker is the contacts can get so hot they melt the "Bakelite" cap causing poor contact with the plunger contact plate. We do have some solenoids if needed. We also carry the new lightweight starters and while they crank strongly (8 & 1/2 lbs versus the NOS unit's 16 lbs) it's hard to imagine them lasting as long as the original while weighing nearly one half as much. I'd replace the solenoid if given the option.
Rob

[82DMC12]

Hey guys,

I received a new starter solenoid from Rob and installed it today. Thanks Rob!!

Unfortunately, still no starting.

I tested my battery and it is 11.8 V
However if I check DC volts between red/white on the solenoid and battery ground with the key turned to ignition, I am only seeing about 4.8 Volts. I figured it would be 12V....

What might be the problem? I suppose it would be the main relay or the start inhibit relay?

Any ideas welcome!!

edit- should mention my car is a manual trans. So not sure if the start inhibit relay could even be an issue..

Andy

[Bitsyncmaster]

You need to check battery voltage with a load connected (turn on the headlights). Sounds like your battery is dead.

[DMC5180]

Hi Andy,

I agree with Dave M. 11.8 V ? have you charged the battery? A full charge on a good conventional battery is 12.6V However, you could also have poor continuity in some of the starting circuit connections. You could hook up jumper cables from your DD to least see if that will spin the starter.

[82DMC12]

Well I turned on the headlights and interior lights, doors up. The battery dropped to 8.5V. So now I have it on a trickle charger and I guess I will check it again tomorrow, however this whole thing started when I took the trickle charger off the car (indicated full charge) and it wouldn't turn the starter, only the relay clicking in the back.

Maybe the battery is just toast and I will bring it in to Napa for a load test.

Andy

[DMC5180]

Well I turned on the headlights and interior lights, doors up. The battery dropped to 8.5V. So now I have it on a trickle charger and I guess I will check it again tomorrow, however this whole thing started when I took the trickle charger off the car (indicated full charge) and it wouldn't turn the starter, only the relay clicking in the back.

Maybe the battery is just toast and I will bring it in to Napa for a load test.

Andy

You just described the symptoms of a battery with a bad cell.


Dennis

[Trstno1]

Do you have acces to a batty jump box that would give you immediate starting power? At least that would tell you if its the starter right away vs something else.

Also have you checked voltage going to 12v at the starter solenoid when the key is turned?

[82DMC12]

Do you have acces to a batty jump box that would give you immediate starting power? At least that would tell you if its the starter right away vs something else.

Also have you checked voltage going to 12v at the starter solenoid when the key is turned?

Yes, but it was only getting 4.8 volts.

Turned out my battery was bad - NAPA was kind enough to give me a new NAPA Legend battery for about half price since the warranty was still in place. Popped it in the BOOM car stated like nothing was every wrong. Dang it. Oh well, guess I won't have to replace the starter solenoid ever again!!!

This was tough because the voltage on the battery read pretty close to 12V but turns out it had very little cranking power. Live and learn.

Andy

[DMC-81]

Andy, glad that you got it sorted. :thumbup:

Don't feel bad. Battery issues are sometimes tricky to figure out. My DD (Magnum) wouldn't start one time and I immediately thought of the battery. I had 2 different places load test it, and they said the battery was fine. But the issues continued. Long story short, I just bought a new one anyway, and the problem was solved. :hmm:

[David T]

Andy, glad that you got it sorted. :thumbup:

Don't feel bad. Battery issues are sometimes tricky to figure out. My DD (Magnum) wouldn't start one time and I immediately thought of the battery. I had 2 different places load test it, and they said the battery was fine. But the issues continued. Long story short, I just bought a new one anyway, and the problem was solved. :hmm:

That's why a proper test of a battery is a load test. A battery may look fine and have lots of voltage but under a load there is nothing there. Most places will load test for free in the hopes of selling you a new one.