What the hell is wrong with my car?

[ccurzio]

Two questions as part of this post.

1. I had a brake problem (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?8305-Brake-Help-%28SEDOC%29) a while back (some of you probably remember this), and a lot of the symptoms of that problem stemmed from braking extremely hard. Thanks to Sean coming over and helping me replace the brake master cylinder, everything seemed to be working again. Unfortunately last week I was driving the car and had to brake hard, and the exact same symptoms have resurfaced - after hard braking the brake pedal becomes easier and easier to push, eventually going to the floor with ease, and only pumping the brakes to build pressure can make it easy to stop the car. No brake fluid leaks that I can see.

2. This noise has been happening for quite some time. I talked about it at the last SEDOC get-together, but by the time I'd gotten there (presumably after the engine had warmed sufficiently), there was no trace of it. But after sitting overnight I can start the car and reliably reproduce it every time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El2w6unNMQg

Best guess is that it's possibly a bearing in the water pump. It doesn't seem to be a slipping belt. Anyone have any other thoughts before I start considering the massive project that is a water pump replacement?

[Bitsyncmaster]

You can pull the belts and run a cold engine for a short time to narrow down that noise problem.

Brakes....my guess is your MC is bad again. Are you using DOT 4 fluid?

[ccurzio]

You can pull the belts and run a cold engine for a short time to narrow down that noise problem.

I thought about this, but the idea of running a 35 year-old engine without the belts didn't sound like a dream plan. I guess the idea is to take them all off then add them back one by one to find out which component is causing the noise?


Brakes....my guess is your MC is bad again. Are you using DOT 4 fluid?

Yup. Valvoline DOT 3/4 Synthetic. Sean would have rightly beaten my ass if I didn't buy the right stuff.

I sure as hell hope the MC isn't failing. It's barely 3 years old, if that.

[PJ Grady Inc.]

The bearing noise is probably the alternator (most likely) or the idler pulley bearings (usually sounds like an old washing machine w/cold). Remove the a/c belt first and listen. We always change the a/c belt, idler bearings, and cam plate o-ring at the same time. The water pump would be my last choice as the bearings almost never go bad. If you take off the alternator belt and the noise is gone spin the alternator and the water pump and see if either squeaks or feels slightly rough when turning it.
Rob

[PJ Grady Inc.]

I thought about this, but the idea of running a 35 year-old engine without the belts didn't sound like a dream plan. I guess the idea is to take them all off then add them back one by one to find out which component is causing the noise?



Yup. Valvoline DOT 3/4 Synthetic. Sean would have rightly beaten my ass if I didn't buy the right stuff.

I sure as hell hope the MC isn't failing. It's barely 3 years old, if that.

We use only Castrol LMA DOT 4 which is the factory recommended fluid. Where did you get the master as some new ones don't last too long these days.
Rob

[ccurzio]

The bearing noise is probably the alternator (most likely) or the idler pulley bearings (usually sounds like an old washing machine w/cold). Remove the a/c belt first and listen. We always change the a/c belt, idler bearings, and cam plate o-ring at the same time. The water pump would be my last choice as the bearings almost never go bad. If you take off the alternator belt and the noise is gone spin the alternator and the water pump and see if either squeaks or feels slightly rough when turning it.
Rob

Thanks for the tips. That's (sort of) good news. I was not looking forward to the idea of a water pump replacement. I'll give your ideas a go this week.


We use only Castrol LMA DOT 4 which is the factory recommended fluid. Where did you get the master as some new ones don't last too long these days.

DMCH.

[PJ Grady Inc.]

Thanks for the tips. That's (sort of) good news. I was not looking forward to the idea of a water pump replacement. I'll give your ideas a go this week.



DMCH.

Yeah I've seen that before as have others I'm aware of. Perhaps you would try one of our brass sleeved units if longevity is important to you. Sometimes it pays to spend a few extra bucks up front to get something that will last a lot longer.
Rob

[ccurzio]

Yeah I've seen that before as have others I'm aware of. Perhaps you would try one of our brass sleeved units if longevity is important to you. Sometimes it pays to spend a few extra bucks up front to get something that will last a lot longer.

Absolutely. I'd be happy to give yours a shot, especially if it's built to last.

[Josh]

I thought about this, but the idea of running a 35 year-old engine without the belts didn't sound like a dream plan. I guess the idea is to take them all off then add them back one by one to find out which component is causing the noise?


Not an issue, so long as you dont run it too long (>2-3mins) or drive it. The concern is overheating as the waterpump is not spinning. if the engine dies due to lack of an alternator in this short time you should be buying a new battery. Id put my money on the A/C belt idler.

[PJ Grady Inc.]

Not an issue, so long as you dont run it too long (>2-3mins) or drive it. The concern is overheating as the waterpump is not spinning. if the engine dies due to lack of an alternator in this short time you should be buying a new battery. Id put my money on the A/C belt idler.

The idler is the most common bearing failure on the D for sure but not usually with such a high pitched squeal. I've seen a lot of poor quality bearings in Delco alternators over the years do this however so if a Delco is involved here it would be my prime suspect.
Rob

[Josh]

The idler is the most common bearing failure on the D for sure but not usually with such a high pitched squeal. I've seen a lot of poor quality bearings in Delco alternators over the years do this however so if a Delco is involved here it would be my prime suspect.
Rob

My alternator just started squealing (bearings) and it is less than a year old!

[Ron]

FWIW, the water pump belt flopping that much, just a couple inches away from the pulley, needs to be addressed...

[PJ Grady Inc.]

FWIW, the water pump belt flopping that much, just a couple inches away from the pulley, needs to be addressed...

I noticed that too and it was almost in time with the squealing bearing which could be another indicator of the cause of the problem.
Rob

[Flicky]

On your brake problem how old are your lines? Did the fluid in the reservoir go down after the hard stomp? Let it sit overnight and then stomp it and see if it goes down. Just give it the one hard stomp and not a pump. If there is air in there you don't want to foam it and make it look like more fluid. Did you bench bleed the new master before you put it in?

After letting it sit since the initial having to pump to get a firm peddle does it ever go back to normal peddle feel from just sitting?

[DL4567]

That sounds like a ghost, or a sci-fi soundtrack from the 50's, featuring your typical theramin or ondes martenot instrument.

[hmcelraft]

The Delco Alternator rear bearing is a common one because the rear bearing seal is exposed to severe elements and often wiped down and there by pushing dirt and dust into the bearing. Same sort of thing with idler bearings - water and dirt, especially from washing engines pushes into the bearings.

[Flicky]

If you are daring and like to poke at your engine whilst it is running you can use one of these to find what one is squeaking if you can't pinpoint it with just your ears. (Mechanic's Stethoscope) Some people use a long screwdriver and hold their ear to the handle end.

http://www.amazon.com/Powerbuilt-640582-Mechanics-Stethoscope/dp/B004KEHGZY/ref=zg_bs_15707551_1

[PJ Grady Inc.]

If you are daring and like to poke at your engine whilst it is running you can use one of these to find what one is squeaking if you can't pinpoint it with just your ears. (Mechanic's Stethoscope) Some people use a long screwdriver and hold their ear to the handle end.

http://www.amazon.com/Powerbuilt-640582-Mechanics-Stethoscope/dp/B004KEHGZY/ref=zg_bs_15707551_1

I've used both a stethoscope and a long screwdriver over the years and they can be very helpful but you need to know what you're listening for as they can be deceiving. Good suggestion however!
Rob

[DMCVegas]

I've used both a stethoscope and a long screwdriver over the years and they can be very helpful but you need to know what you're listening for as they can be deceiving. Good suggestion however!
Rob

Also tie any long hair or necklaces up so that you don't get them caught in the belts while leaning over the engine.

[David T]

Also tie any long hair or necklaces up so that you don't get them caught in the belts while leaning over the engine.

Another trick is to squirt water at the suspected parts. Once the water hits, the squeal will go away. The safest way is to remove the belt and if the noise goes away it is something the belt turns. The idler bearings are the most likely suspect followed by the alternator and then the water pump. Rare but the A/C can be the source too. If the noise goes away when the compressor is running the bearing is bad on the compressor.