Heninger LCAs - Replacement Ball Joints

[Josh]

Since Bryne closed down shop where can you source these ball joints? For some reason I heard they are different than the other ball joints offered by DMC.

Any help is appreciated!

[Patrick C]

He may still be answering emails: heningerandassoc(at)bellsouth.net

[Mark D]

DPI and DMCH are now carrying the DMC Eurotech sourced balljoints which are the ones you want to buy. If you want to read more about the history of all things ball joints there is some good info here:


http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2408-Ball-Joint-Discussion-Revisited&p=32450&viewfull=1#post32450

[content22207_2]

Byrne's arms take the same size ball joint as OEM.

Byrne used Uro Parts #131 405 371G.

xRef's to a Volkswagen Beetle (I'm pretty sure that's what Hervey is xRef'ing, although brand could be different).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Mark D]

Cliff's notes version of the thread I linked to above on the crossover VW joints:

-The top groove for the snap ring has to be machined in after the fact and there is often little to no material left above the snap ring groove vs the OE joint.

-The taper dimensions on ball joint shaft do not match OEM specs and there is potential for the shaft to extend past the knuckle preventing the castle nut from torquing properly and locking in the taper.

-The guys at the DMC Eurotech forum went to the original supplier to have the new ball joints made to the original dimensions for an exact fit.

[content22207_2]

Byrne's ball joint pad is 1/2" thick -- don't know if the snap ring groove is even visible.

You don't need snap rings (I beams on pre-1987 Ford trucks bury their snap ring grooves). Spring pushes the LCA into the ball joint so it couldn't come out anyway.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[content22207_2]

Just checked: Uro Parts ball joints (at least the ones Byrne was using) don't have snap rings.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[PJ Grady Inc.]

DPI and DMCH are now carrying the DMC Eurotech sourced balljoints which are the ones you want to buy. If you want to read more about the history of all things ball joints there is some good info here:


http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2408-Ball-Joint-Discussion-Revisited&p=32450&viewfull=1#post32450

We have been using the Eurotech ball-joints and have had no problems. They look and fit like the later NOS ball-joints.
Rob

[DeLoreanGo Arran]

I concur with the above - Mark's link above is a good one - for those interested in the whole ball joint story it is here: http://www.deloreaneurotec.uk/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2198

In short, in the past there were 3 makes of lower ball joint - ours, DMCH and Hervey's VW cross reference. The cross reference one isn't quite right, and there were some reports of premature failures with the DMCH ones (in a few cases even new ones failed our state road-worthiness inspections over here)
Now there are 3 types again, but different. Hervey still sells his VW ones, Ed in Europe has just had some made in Germany. The ones sold by us, Rob, Josh and DMCH all come from the same place in the UK. Stronger and thicker than the originals, and with 4 grease channels built into the seat of the joint, which is far superior to the old method.

Ours are available here: http://www.deloreanclub.uk/lower-ball-joints-pair.html and we ship worldwide, but if you're getting parts in the USA anyway I think every vendor carries the same ones except John Hervey.

Ball joint failures make for some pretty nasty looking photos - in fact one such photo appeared on a celebrity's Instagram account only this week here in the UK, he was writing a newspaper column on the car at the time! ouch!

[axh174]

*Bump*

I have a set of Bryne's LCAs and a set of ball joints from deloreanclub.uk. I was under the impression that these ball joints could be used to replace the ones that came with Bryne's LCAs (the VW cross reference part). So I took the arms and ball joints to my mechanic the other day and asked him to press the old ones out and get the new ones pressed in. He called me later and told me that the new ones (deloreanclub.uk) were too large and could not be pressed in.

Have I proceeded under a false assumption? Are the deloreanclub.uk ball joints not usable in Bryne's LCAs? Is there a special trick or type of tool needed to get them pressed in? Or should I be looking for another mechanic?

Any help is, of course, much appreciated =)

-Kevin
VIN2234

[Patrick C]

*Bump*

I have a set of Bryne's LCAs and a set of ball joints from deloreanclub.uk. I was under the impression that these ball joints could be used to replace the ones that came with Bryne's LCAs (the VW cross reference part). So I took the arms and ball joints to my mechanic the other day and asked him to press the old ones out and get the new ones pressed in. He called me later and told me that the new ones (deloreanclub.uk) were too large and could not be pressed in.

Have I proceeded under a false assumption? Are the deloreanclub.uk ball joints not usable in Bryne's LCAs? Is there a special trick or type of tool needed to get them pressed in? Or should I be looking for another mechanic?

Any help is, of course, much appreciated =)

-Kevin
VIN2234

Before ordering my Arms I asked Byrne about balljoints and he said his arms use the stock size balljoints. The euro ones should fit fine.

[content22207_2]

This question came up when Steve was running his forum as a Google Group. At that I measured one of Byrne's ball joints (new) against an OEM ball joint (pressed out). They were within something like a thousandth of an inch of each other. Don't know if there's some way to access that post on a wayback machine. When time permits I can press out another OEM ball joint and take new measurements.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[content22207_2]

Press in portion of Uro Parts ball joint is 1.515" diameter, .452" tall flutes, .685" to the boot.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[axh174]

Thanks Patrick and Bill. It's sounding to me like I need to try another mechanic (or try renting a ball joint kit).

I'll post an update in the near future.

-Kevin
VIN2234

[durech]

Heninger and Associates, Inc is OPEN again. Limited number of parts (but the most important ones) :thumbup:

[DMCMW Dave]

The part on Byrnes arms that is unique is the inner bushing. Stock ones won't fit at all.

Try putting the arm in an oven for a while at 250 degrees for a while, and put the ball joint in your freezer. That may get you the clearance you need for installation.

[content22207_2]

Uro Parts ball joint pressed into an OEM control arm:

42027

If you can go one way (Byrne ball joint into OEM arm), you can go the other (OEM ball joint into Byrne arm).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[content22207_2]

I'm a little concerned about your mechanic -- I just pressed a ball joint in and out in a couple of minutes using nothing more than a manual ball joint press:

42028

Personally I would rent a press from a parts house and do the job yourself.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[DMCMW Dave]

I'm a little concerned about your mechanic


OR the quality control on the arm dimensions. . . .

[Farrar]

OR the quality control on the arm dimensions. . . .

Were stock LCAs manufactured by Lotus?

I ask only for information.

[Patrick C]

OR the quality control on the arm dimensions. . . .

I would think if the other balljoints were able to be pressed into the arms, there wouldn't be a dimension problem with the arm when replacing them.

[Patrick C]

Heninger and Associates, Inc is OPEN again. Limited number of parts (but the most important ones) :thumbup:

http://www.deloreanupgradeparts.com

[content22207_2]

OR the quality control on the arm dimensions. . . .

To the best of my knowledge the only dimensional problem Byrne's arms ever had was due to miscommunication with his fabricator. Originally the two side pieces wrapped all the way around the arm and were welded together. This occasionally caused clearance issues with the dust shield, so Byrne redrew his templates to leave a gap at the end of the arm (side pieces were not as long). His fabricator did not realize this and welded up some arms with the shortened side pieces wrapped all the way around like before. Of course that shortened the entire arm. Byrne swapped out those arms for correct ones. Happened at least 5 years ago, if not longer. Haven't heard of any problems since.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[axh174]

To the best of my knowledge the only dimensional problem Byrne's arms ever had... Happened at least 5 years ago, if not longer. Haven't heard of any problems since.


Well you can chalk me up to the outlier on that. Nothing major with the LCAs, but enough to cause a problem:

I rented a ball joint service kit over the weekend and proceeded to work on the LCAs. The first one I tackled was the one my mechanic had not attempted to work on. Ball joint popped out easily and I managed to get the new one pressed in. Took quite a bit of elbow grease with the help of my apartment mate, but we got it. The second arm, the one my mechanic had attempted to work on, was not so straightforward. I could not get the ball joint pressed in either, and when trying to remove it to see what was going on, it didn't "pop" out like the other one did. Turns out the hole for the ball joint was not machined adequately; on one side of the hole there was a ridge of flash and, 1/4 turn away from it, the hole had a slight flat spot (the hole was not rounded there).

So I attached a sanding drum to my dremel and sanded down the ridge of flash and rounded out the flat spot. After this, I was able to press the ball joint in with admittedly still a bit more effort than the first one, but it's in!

I took a look at the original ball joint that came with the LCA and noticed that its "housing" was misshapen from the flat spot and there was a jagged lip from the ridge of flash. I'm guessing a hydraulic press was used?

Either way, both of the deloreanclub.uk ball joints are in! =)

-Kevin
VIN2234

[Delorean Industries]

Hard to manufacture to iso standards like some of us in your backyard. Let alone in the south.....

[content22207_2]

If only us Southerners could be like our Yankee countrymen, in Ohio perhaps which has lost 30% of its industrial capacity in the 21st century alone....

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Delorean Industries]

We are weeding out the people that don't pull their weight who migrated up from the south.

[content22207_2]

Re: migration: While it is true that states historically known for heavy industry like Ohio have seen population stagnate (annual growth around .1%), and states not typically associated with modern manufacturing like South Carolina (which builds more BMW's than Germany) have experienced population growth more than 10 times greater (slightly more than 1% annually), Maine is the only state to date that has experienced a loss of population.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Delorean Industries]

This is why we don't jive. You don't understand satire or a joke.... Obviously henniger building arms in his barn has quality problems. I was being sarcastic about the second part. You literally sucked the fun out of this by being technical for no reason.

[content22207_2]

Byrne doesn't make anything himself (he has no barn -- just a multi-bay garage at his suburban house). He designs things on paper then has machine shops make them.

Don't know where the idea got started that Byrne was making his stuff himself.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Delorean Industries]

The quality of the parts and inability to hold basic tolerances/ geometry.

Statistically though.... Compared to your front end he has better chance of killing someone with his arms based on the number in circulation. I found a new sinking ship Robertson :)

See what I did there? I successfully mixed fact, satire, sarcasm and irony into one informational post.

[content22207_2]

Byrne is at the mercy of outside fabricators. 99.9% of the time they faithfully reproduce what he designs. In the rare instances where they did not Byrne has never failed to replace the part free of charge.

In this case I bet if the OP asked Byrne to swap the arm out he would.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[content22207_2]

To the best of my knowledge DPI lower control arms are made by an outside fabricator as well.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[content22207_2]

Bryan Pearce's lower control arms were made in house (by his father).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Delorean Industries]

It only takes .1% to get someone killed. I deal in absolutes not percentages of success.

[Delorean Industries]

Bryan Pearce's lower control arms were made in house (by his father).

Bill Robertson
#5939

I had a pearce upper arm fail on me recently at speed. Absolute shit.....

[content22207_2]

I beached a Heninger lower arm on a concrete island (in the middle of a tornado) -- absolute tank.

Bill Robertson
#5939