LED Headlight Conversion

[Chris4099]

For years I wanted to convert my headlights from Halogen to LED. But for the longest time, there were only two real options. JW Speaker headlights which were very expensive, not much brighter then standard bulbs and not much power savings either. They've since come out with a second generation that's brighter but still expensive. There's also those units that have an array of LEDs, but they look funny. It wasn't until last year when I found out about LED bulb replacements designed to directly replace halogen bulbs that I decided to finally go forward with a conversion. So here's what I did and my though process. I also addressed a few other issues I had with my headlights at the time.

I first ordered a set of LED bulbs for my MINI Cooper to just see if they actually worked well. I didn't want to buy both a set of LED bulbs and H4 conversion housings if they weren't any good. After installing them, I was very surprised. Light was much whiter and the brightness was great. I did read about how when converting, you are only supposed to do that with projector housings as the light direction is different. But on my MINI, it was just fine. So I ordered up the following LED bulbs (different style, but same manufacture) and headlight housings (with integrated DRLs):
http://www.amazon.com/New-5th-Generation-LED-Headlight/dp/B0107MX0BG (looks like H4 may be tricky to find now with this brand)
http://www.amazon.com/Oracle-Lighting-6909-001-Sealed-Pre-Installed/dp/B010U5OWSA

I decided to keep the halogen high beams stock. This cut my conversion cost in half. I don't drive a lot with high beams on, so I didn't want to spend the money. Maybe in the future, I'll convert them as well. For the housings, I made sure to find a set were the DRL wiring/bulb would not interfere with the buckets. Some have a big socket sticking out the side and I didn't want to cut up the buckets anymore then I had to.

So now it was time to remove the original bulbs. I put blue painters tape around the edges to protect the paint job. Using a large Philips screwdriver worked best to get a good grip on the shallow screw heads. Once out, I then unscrewed the headlight adjusters all the way out so I could remove the buckets. If the adjuster was too stripped, I had to pop it out of the bucket and use pliers to turn them. To my surprise, the rust wasn't that bad. I then outlined the back of the buckets and used a dremel to enlarge them so the new housings would fit. Some paint to cover the exposed metal and they were good to go. However, after an attempt at reinstalling later, I discovered there was a support beam back there that the headlights interfered with. So I had to grind that away as well (put the vacuum hose to collect the dust as I grinded with the dremel). Below is before and after. Not pictured is the paint I added to prevent it from rusting.

4111641115

Since most of my adjustment screws were toast, I ordered replacements from DMCH. After a few days they called me and said they were out and it would be weeks until they could ship. So I cancelled my order and did what I should have done at first which was to call Toby at DMC-NW. He cross-referenced a set that were the same length and thread pitch. However, they used T15 torx instead of Phillips. This was great in that they are easy to get a T15 torx bit in there to adjust and shouldn't strip as easily. When reassembling, I put anti-seize on the threads too so they wouldn't get as stuck as before. My only concern now is how well will the adjustments hold over time. I'll have to report back in a few years if adding that was a mistake or not. But at least I can easily readjust if necessary. :)

Now for the good stuff, the LED headlights! I picked the ones linked to above specifically because they had those large heat sinks on them. Most out there have a fan on the back. I didn't like that as I was worried about it failing overtime. Plus I wasn't sure if there was enough space for them to fit. They come with a little bracket that locks into place on the enclosure. You then add a rubber boot which seals around it and finally the bulb itself (insert and twist to lock). Here are some pics of the process.

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Here is a pic of the bulb being tested. While it was cold outside, the heat sink never got much above 108F at the base. I also confirmed the brightness was great, but I didn't look closely at the beam pattern. Big mistake as I'll mention further down.

41107

There was a tab and some ridges on the boot which made the fit into the headlight bucket tight, so I cut those off. I then cleaned the headlight sockets and moved the pins to the appropriate H4 locations. I plugged in the LED controller and tucked it back behind the bracket. I also pulled the DRL wiring through and to the side for connection later. Finally I made the connection to the controller and bulb and put the headlight into place. Tight fit but it went in there.

41106

After that, it was just a matter of reinstalling the trim to hold the headlight in place and repeat on the other side. The high beams were next but since I used the standard halogen bulb, they went right in real easy. I recommend a magnetic screwdriver too when putting those trim screws in place. All said and done, they look like this:

41108

When the next clear night came, I pulled the car out and tried them out. The whole street lit up. So I put my jacket over one side and used my T15 torx driver to adjust the other light. However, something didn't seem right. After a bit of driving around, it became obvious. All the warnings I heard about using LED/HID conversions came true. The beam was way too dispersed. Driving in a back road with lots of tries, it was obvious I was illuminating way to much above me and almost nothing directly head of me. It was very dangerous to drive like that as I needed my high beams to see directly in front. Not good.

So I pulled one out and hooked it up to my power supply while pointing it to the garage door. First pic is the old factory original halogen. Second is the LED.

4111041109

This is bad, I actually have a dark spot in the dead center! After thinking about it, I started to wonder if it was maybe because the LED bulb was a little bit on the long side compared to a halogen bulb. So I removed the boot and while the LED was powered, slowly pulled the bulb back out of the housing. Sure enough, about a quarter of an inch did the trick. The pattern narrowed and looked much better. So I decided to make a spacer out of the blank plate that came with the housings. Using a soldering iron, I melted the middle part out. Original next to the modified one:

41111

I put that into the housing followed by the adapter. Only problem is now the hold down clip doesn't work. But the screws to hold the clip are about the right hight. So I removed the clip and adjusted the mounts and sure enough, it holds everything nicely in place.

41113

I reinstall the boot and LED bulb. Connect back up and this is the result:

41112

I quickly perform the same mod to the other light and reinstall. After taking the bulbs in/out so many times, I'm getting rather good at it now. :) So I performed the same adjustment by doing them one at a time. I also have them point a little bit to the right to help insure I don't blind oncoming traffic. Here's what it looks like while driving (the surrounding area is illuminated, it just doesn't show up on camera).

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It doesn't have the sharp cutoff like modern lights do, but that's OK. It helps shine some light on signs which reflect the 6K light very well. When I walk towards the car on the driver side, it's not blinding me at all. So while technically not a legal setup, it's still in the spirit of the law and not blinding oncoming traffic.

Overall, so much better then halogen and use a lot less power too. As for the DRLs, I'll probably do another thread on those later. But for now I'm very happy and will consider doing the high beams at some point in the future. The only part I'm disappointed about is the LED bulb I use has two sets of LEDs on them. One for low and another for high. Even if you power both pins, it still shuts off the low beam LED. So instead of getting a full 3,000 lumens, I only get 1,500. With the high beam bulbs, I still get overall more light on the road. So not the end of the world and like I said, I don't use my high beams a lot as I typically drive on lit roads at night.

So if you want to do a conversion, be prepared to do some modifications. If you want to make it an easy conversion, then the JW Speakers are the way to go and should be much more plug-n-play.

[john 05141]

Very cool.
I'd like that, but it is not allowed here in Belgium.
LED is of course allowed but as a rebuilt for a classic car. I can't figure out why.

I have seen a Delorean with Xenon in Holland.

Jan

[DMCVegas]

This is awesome!

I've been eyeing LED replacements for a while. Truck-Lite makes complete drop-in, DOT-approved, replacement LED bulbs here in the U.S. where the housing is the heat sink itself and it contains all of the electronics internally with no modifications needed to the vehicle at all. The problem is the price. It's about $200-$300 per pair. But they do make both low and high beam replacements for our cars.

Given both the age of our cars, and especially the tricky front fascias that we want to avoid damage to when replacing bulbs, I think that converting over to LEDs is something that we should all be considering. A conversion would reduce the power draw from 4.4 & 4.8 Amps down to only 0.7 & 1.2 Amps per individual bulb. So just at night we'd go from 8.8 Amps down to only 1.4. And if you do run the high beams for any extended periods like I do, it drops down from 19.2 Amps to only 4.8. That's a pretty significant drop in power consumption.

I don't know what the power specs on these bulbs are, but I'm sure there in the same range. This right here is a nice, affordable conversion. Good job!

[content22207_2]

FWIW: http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/first-ever-iihs-headlight-ratings-show-most-need-improvement

LED's produce a very narrow spectrum of light. What you see is light reflected back from various objects (a red stop sign is actually every color but red). If narrow spectrum headlights don't produce colors necessary to be reflected back, objects will be harder to see than with broader spectrum headlights.

You can experience this yourself distinguishing black objects from blue objects using an LED flashlight.

Martin Gutkowski summarizes the problem as "LED's are good to be seen, not so good to see".

Some police departments prefer halogen alley and takedown lights on their rooftop bars for that very reason, even when the blue lights are LED.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Bitsyncmaster]

Martin Gutkowski summarizes the problem as "LED's are good to be seen, not so good to see".


I like that quote.

Normally incandescent takes about 7 times the power of LEDs to produce the same intensity of light. If LED headlights did draw 1/7 the power I would have bought them already. But what I have seen is the specifications show they draw the same current as incandescent bulbs.

[Lwanmtr]

Neat project.

For my own self...I just have a couple of problems with LED headlights..

Price..Current prices on bulbs and housings, etc are rather high.
and Blinding....Most non-factory led conversions i've seen end up being blinding to oncoming traffic. This is because they havent installed them right or adjusted them correctly (if you can at all).

If prices get reasonable and good kits become available, I'll look.

[content22207_2]

The technical term is "color rendering index" -- the ability of a light source to produce a spectrum that reflects back colors compared to natural sunlight. Sunlight is 100. Incandescent bulbs are 98-100. Mixed element LED bulbs (like household bulbs) are 80-90. Single element LED bulbs (like LED flashlights) are 60-80.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Chris4099]

I like that quote.

Normally incandescent takes about 7 times the power of LEDs to produce the same intensity of light. If LED headlights did draw 1/7 the power I would have bought them already. But what I have seen is the specifications show they draw the same current as incandescent bulbs.

I think the ones you are thinking of are the first gen JW Speaker bulbs which did require many amps and only had about the same lumen output as a halogen. The ones I used draw just 1.6 amps and provide 1,500LM per bulb (stock halogen is around 800LM). LEDs are a quickly evolving technology.



and Blinding....Most non-factory led conversions i've seen end up being blinding to oncoming traffic. This is because they havent installed them right or adjusted them correctly (if you can at all).


This was a big concern for me too. I made sure to do lots of checking on this. As noted in my original post, if I had just put the bulb in and nothing else, I would have caused poor forward vision and lots of glare of oncoming traffic. Once I fixed the beam pattern, I aimed them. During this process, I actually parked my car on the street and walked down it and approached it as if I was oncoming traffic. I wanted to make double sure I wasn't blinding oncoming traffic. The big drawback to converting to non-halogen for us is the 3x5 sealed beam housings. LED conversion bulbs are designed for projector housings (which is why glare is so common on non-projector conversions). You just can't by a proper projector that fits inside a 3x5 enclosure. You can find 3x5 projector replacements, but they just have a small lens and nothing like true projector housings. The only other option is to purchase true LED 3x5 bulbs but they look so out of place on a D.

Looks like the original seller I used brought back the H4 bulb. You can find it here:
http://www.amazon.com/Rolinger-5th-Generation-9005-Headlight/dp/B012KF2DJ8

Make sure to click on H4 as Amazon defaults to a different bulb type. The specs are a bit confusing as they mix them with the different bulb types. But mine came with specific H4 documentation that states 1500LM with a 1.6 amp draw per bulb.

[DMCVegas]

FWIW: http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/first-ever-iihs-headlight-ratings-show-most-need-improvement

LED's produce a very narrow spectrum of light. What you see is light reflected back from various objects (a red stop sign is actually every color but red). If narrow spectrum headlights don't produce colors necessary to be reflected back, objects will be harder to see than with broader spectrum headlights.

You can experience this yourself distinguishing black objects from blue objects using an LED flashlight.

Martin Gutkowski summarizes the problem as "LED's are good to be seen, not so good to see".

Some police departments prefer halogen alley and takedown lights on their rooftop bars for that very reason, even when the blue lights are LED.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Let's clear the air on a few things here.

The first thing to consider is that there is a MASSIVE variation on electrical lights when it comes to both the light source, and then separately the reflector housing. In particular is the housing/reflector problem. You take a reflector built to house a halogen bulb and then insert an HID bulb or LED and you're going to just spray light everywhere. The reason being of course that the output of the light occurs in different areas with the new bulb versus the old one. As such the reflective surfaces and the lens cannot harness the light to properly direct and focus it. Chris as we see in his write-up demonstrated this perfectly. He had to reposition the bulbs in order to achieve a more focused beam. When you have unfocused light that's when you Dazzle oncoming drivers, and when you have poorer lighting due to a lack of a focused beam to generate more lumens into the forward area ahead since they're all scattering to the sides of the road and up above.

Speaking exclusively of LEDs, comparing cheap Harbor Freight flashlights that you get for free with a coupon to high-quality and professional LED lighting isn't comparable at all. There has been much documentation about this online. I mean, you compare some cheap Chinese eBay specials to something you can buy from a company such as Rigid Industries, and you're going to see a massive difference in light output and efficiency.

Or better yet, let's compare them to Ford who actually use factory-installed LED headlights on their high-end F150 trucks which you can buy right now. I highly doubt that Ford is willing to jeopardize not only their sales position for trucks, but their entire business itself if LED Headlights were not safe, viable products to install. Nor would other companies such as Truck-Lite who sell full retrofit kits that exceed DOT standards. Which aside from being built in in the US is also why they cost so much more. They're not merely halogen housings with LEDs inserted. They have specially engineered optics.

I also am unaware of police actively rejecting LED lighting systems in favor of halogen because of safety reasons either. All of the modern police cars I've seen in the past 4-5 years have switched over to LEDs on their light bars, and now their teardrop spots. It's blinding as all hell at night when they've got someone pulled over. So again there too if the police are using them as well (maybe your area isn't caught up yet in it's equipment cycle, I don't know), it's a pretty safe bet that LEDs are perfectly fine to use.

[content22207_2]

As the IIHS study demonstrated, just because alternative headlights are offered on 2016 model vehicles does not mean they are effective. Only one vehicle tested had headlights rated "good". Half the vehicles tested were "marginal" or "poor".

Do not confuse lumens with CRI. Individual LED's produce very narrow spectrums of light. That's their biggest weakness for general illumination. Household bulbs compensate by mixing various color LED's in arrays. Single element LED's, be they headlights or flashlights, don't have that option, so they produce a narrow spectrum that does a poor job of illuminating objects outside of that spectrum.

41593

It's the same problem you run into putting white LED's behind colored lenses.

Incandescents definitely have their faults, but color spectrum isn't one of them -- incandescents produce the closest facsimile of natural sunlight. Multi-element LED bulbs can reach 90% of sunlight's spectrum, but definitely not single elements.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Bitsyncmaster]

I did see a quick demo somewhere on that one car with LED headlights which was rated better than the non option incandescent. I do not think that one car has multi color LEDs so someone is designing better LED headlights. I'm still waiting for the design improvements to come about. It will happen. All cars will eventually have LED headlights.

The home LED bulbs I use are not multi color LEDs. I use the 5000 k color because I do like the bright white. My kitchen LEDs which have 4 four foot LED bulbs replacing the fluorescent have a color rating of 6500 k.

I have many good LED flashlights and must admit there is something lacking in how they illuminate but still they do light up what I need to see.

[content22207_2]

Sunlight is about 5000K. But sunlight also contains all the visible wavelengths. That's how it is able to reflect back everything from bright red to deep blue.

LED's produce very narrow wavelengths. A red LED produces very little blue wavelengths, and vice versa.

A common way around this limitation is to mix a variety of LED colors in one bulb. That's how programmable RGB are possible: http://www.amazon.com/Coidak-CO801-1-Wireless-Changing-Controller/dp/B00ZK5Z1PY/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1461329512&sr=8-3 All you're doing is choosing which LED elements to illuminate.

Single element LED's (like high power LED's) produce only whatever wavelength their material is made of, generally bright white. Shine your LED flashlight behind a red tail light lens and you'll see the problem -- very little red light is being generated.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[content22207_2]

Flat screen TV's work the same way. There isn't a single element LED behind the screen, but rather an array of multi-color LED's.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[DMCVegas]

Flat screen TV's work the same way. There isn't a single element LED behind the screen, but rather an array of multi-color LED's.

Well now, let's slow down on this one here. Not all TVs function the same way (I don't know why we insist upon calling them "Flatscreen" to differentiate them since CRT Televisions are no longer the norm, but whatevs). You have both LED Backlit TVs, as well as LED egde lighting. Both types use LEDs in lieu of florescent blubs to generate a white light which is then in turn filtered by a LCD panel. What you're describing is an OLED display, which is more akin to the functionality of plasma. Where instead of filtering light through individual pixels, the pixels instead generate the light themselves. Which gives improved colors because you have true black on the screen. And then there is DLP still to go, but that would just take us off onto another tangent.

In other words, the comparison doesn't hold water.



As the IIHS study demonstrated, just because alternative headlights are offered on 2016 model vehicles does not mean they are effective. Only one vehicle tested had headlights rated "good". Half the vehicles tested were "marginal" or "poor".

Oh, Bill. You have no idea how happy I am that you brought this up. I knew you would, and you didn't disappoint. Thank you!

For anyone who is interested in what Bill is talking about, here's a link to the study completed by the IIHS: http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/first-ever-iihs-headlight-ratings-show-most-need-improvement

You know what that one vehicle rated as "Good" was? It was the Toyota Prius V...which uses LED headlights. In fact, my favorite quote from the IIHS was this one: "When equipped with regular halogen lights and without high-beam assist, the Prius v earns a poor rating."

[content22207_2]

Oh, Bill. You have no idea how happy I am that you brought this up. I knew you would, and you didn't disappoint. Thank you!

Actually Bill brought the IIHS study up in Post #4, complete with a hyperlink to begin the post. Is it possible Robert doesn't bother to read other peoples' posts before posting his diatribes?

If you're going to pick and choose individual cars from the IIHS study, they rated 2016 Audi A4 with LED headlights as "marginal", and 2016 Mercedes Benz CLA with LED headlights as "poor".

Bottom line: by design, LED's produce very narrow light spectrums. Only way to get a fuller spectrum is to combine multiple LED's of different colors. Some colors, such as pink, can only be produced by coating red LED's with a white phosphor (when you get right down to it, that's how white LED's are made -- they are blue LED's with a yellow phosphor coating). Do not expect single element LED's to properly illuminate other color objects.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[DMCVegas]

Once again picking and choosing what you need in order to cobble together an argument.

As the study clearly pointed out, LED Lights are indeed able to satisfy the IIHS for their requirements of driver visibility. Halogen lights as well which you continue to tout also failed. But it's not even that they simply failed, it's that they even failed to perform as well as the LEDs. The prime example of this being the same vehicle equipped with halogens. This isn't grading on a curve, it's grading against a standard. Which as I previously pointed out all relates to the pairing of a proper light source to it's proper optics.

You've also claimed things such as how police prefer halogen because of this spectrum concern as a way to back your opposition. If you've got some recent proof of this claim about police perferences, please share it. Because I'm just not seeing it.

The IIHS says LED Headlights can be viable and safe alternatives to halogen bulbs. I'm going to have to side with them on this one over you.

And if you think my posts are too long, then stop spouting off so much incorrect and/or unverifiable statements to be corrected.

[Bitsyncmaster]

You don't need to have accurate colors to drive the car safely at night. You need to see the side of the road, the center-lines, people or animals in or near the road. Other vehicles have lights to make them very visible.

I wonder if the LED light are better or worse in the fog, rain or snow.

[Chris4099]

You don't need to have accurate colors to drive the car safely at night. You need to see the side of the road, the center-lines, people or animals in or near the road. Other vehicles have lights to make them very visible.

I've been away from my PC, but this was exactly what I was going to post. The cones in our eyes don't work well in low light, so being able to see color isn't that great to begin with. What I want with headlights is good illumination of the road ahead of me, well aimed as to not blind oncoming traffic, white light (looks sharp compared to yellow halogen) and long life. As one driving with LED headlights in two my my cars now, I can say they deliver. There's also something about the 6k color temp that really reflects well from road signs. They are significantly brighter now and much easier to read and see at a distance. I may not get accurate colors, but at least I can see more and use less power too.

Now for ultimate performance, it's still hard to beat HID projectors. Talk about illumination and distribution! I just haven't seen a good 3x5 retrofit option for them. Laser is also another cool headlight tech, but still a bit early on that unless you want to pay major $$$.

[DMCVegas]

You don't need to have accurate colors to drive the car safely at night. You need to see the side of the road, the center-lines, people or animals in or near the road. Other vehicles have lights to make them very visible.

I wonder if the LED light are better or worse in the fog, rain or snow.

It really depends upon the LED being used of course, but I would think proper warm white LEDs are probably better in bad weather conditions. This is a great example right here as to why you can't just go by the spectrum of a "white LED" since there are different types which result in different outputs:

http://i.stack.imgur.com/lkyXG.pnghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/Eyesensitivity.svg/669px-Eyesensitivity.svg.png

You have two separate types of White LEDs with varying light output. However, the key thing to notice is that both intersect around the 550nm frequency within the green area of the visible light spectrum that the human eye is most sensitive to (which is why night vision is tinted green). But just as important is the sharp decline in the 450nm range. That's key because blue light is what always causes the most glare. It's also the reason why Selective Yellow is a great option for fog lights, though the drawback is about a 15% attenuation in light output because of the filtration. Proper LEDs by comparison can kill the glare more effectively and provide greater visibility with non-tinted light which results in a brighter light output.



I've been away from my PC, but this was exactly what I was going to post. The cones in our eyes don't work well in low light, so being able to see color isn't that great to begin with. What I want with headlights is good illumination of the road ahead of me, well aimed as to not blind oncoming traffic, white light (looks sharp compared to yellow halogen) and long life. As one driving with LED headlights in two my my cars now, I can say they deliver. There's also something about the 6k color temp that really reflects well from road signs. They are significantly brighter now and much easier to read and see at a distance. I may not get accurate colors, but at least I can see more and use less power too.

Now for ultimate performance, it's still hard to beat HID projectors. Talk about illumination and distribution! I just haven't seen a good 3x5 retrofit option for them. Laser is also another cool headlight tech, but still a bit early on that unless you want to pay major $$$.

OSRAM/Sylvania actually used to produce HID Retrofit kits for vehicles.

http://www.dmcnews.com/Techsection/xenons/xenons.htm

They weren't cheap ($800!) but that was because the kit contained not only the bulbs and ballast, but special optics for HID bulbs. But they discontinued the kit shortly after when the DOT made the kits illegal. Real shame too.

Lasers are nice, but I don't know how rugged they're going to be in the end since their internals are so complicated.

[Tomcio]

I see that no one has mentioned the xenon lights which are pretty common and have a CRI of around 70! I notice a slight difference in how a STOP sign looks where the red is not so saturated but I don't care. I can still see that it is a stop sign.
As to the LEDs, white LEDs can vary greatly and you can't just say they're all bad. Some cheap white LEDs have a CRI of less than 70 but some high quality power LEDs can have a CRI as high as 98. Those are generally meant to be used in projectors. So, the color reproduction depends on the LED used. Light distribution depends on how well the optics are designed.
BTW, white LEDs are not using multiple colored chips (although they might) but instead a blue chip with phosphor coating that reacts to the blue light and emits other wavelengths. As a result you see a white light.
Anyway, I will be installing LED headlights in my car. I'm looking at some high quality white LEDs with 3500 lumen output and CRI of 92 (typical). They are not cheap but they are NICE. Oh, and I will not be driving them at full power as the light output would exceed the allowed limits.
In short, choose a good quality LED and design the optics correctly and you'll have a headlight that far exceeds halogen and xenon lights.

[iflights]

Tom, good to see you back.

Checked out your site...do you have any guidance as to when the next batch your fabulous LED door lights would be ready for sale?

Thanks

[Tomcio]

Tom, good to see you back.

Checked out your site...do you have any guidance as to when the next batch your fabulous LED door lights would be ready for sale?

Thanks

Hi,

It's been a while but I'm still here ;)

I will post an update in my LED lights thread as not to steal this one here. Anyway, the lights are available now!

Thanks!

[Dutch]

New LED Headlights

Truck-Lite has developed new headlights, in the past they had a set that looked strange and didn't deliver the projection needed for an efficient headlight.

The new headlights they have developed look promising:

High beam : https://www.headlightsuperstore.com/product/truck-lite-27645c-4x6-high-beam-led-headlight-housing-s1
Low beam: https://www.headlightsuperstore.com/product/truck-lite-27640c-4x6-low-beam-led-headlight-housing-s1

Does anyone have any experience with these yet.

I've inquired to the heat development, the electronics are at the top of the unit, so wondering if they get to hot to warp the fuscia.

[Chris4099]

It uses just 20W of power (compared to about 55W of the halogens), so I wouldn't worry too much about warping the facia as that's not a lot of heat.

I have three concerns about this headlight. First is the lumen output isn't listed on the manufacturer's web site. The video says 850, but that sounds really low as it's not much better than a halogen. So I wonder what the actual output really is. My other concern is regarding the single element on the low beam. Depending on how you flash the high beams, the low beam element may stay on along with the high beam element with the stock halogen. With this unit, the low doesn't change. This means you don't have as much light going to a higher elevation as a stock setup (assuming the lumen output is about the same). Granted the low beam LED bulbs I ended up using don't produce more output with the high beam activated, they at least change the throw of the output higher up.

The last concern is a big one. The shape of the housing looks like it may not fit in the headlight bucket of our cars! The heatsink looks too high. You might have to cut significantly into the bucket to get it to fit. Cut too much of it out, then it may not sit inside the headlight brackets properly which will affect the ability to aim them or have them sit straight.

But if you can make it fit and aim properly, it looks to be a good option. Just not as bolt in as some may hope for. :)

[Timeless]

I'm in the fire truck industry and we only use the JW LED headlights for new production. Yes, they are pricey but you get what you pay for. The Truck-Lite units look promising.

[Mark D]

I'm in the fire truck industry and we only use the JW LED headlights for new production. Yes, they are pricey but you get what you pay for. The Truck-Lite units look promising.

I am also in the fire truck industry and it's amazing how many of our customers have embraced the JW speaker LED headlights. It's pretty close to half of the trucks that are running LED's, maybe another 30% HID's and the rest is a split between halogen and the last few die-hards with sealed beams.

I posted some photos a while back of the JW LED headlights on one of our trucks, see this album:
http://dmctalk.org/album.php?albumid=237

It's cool that you're also in the industry, what's your involvement? I work in chassis engineering for Pierce.

[DMCVegas]

The last concern is a big one. The shape of the housing looks like it may not fit in the headlight bucket of our cars! The heatsink looks too high. You might have to cut significantly into the bucket to get it to fit. Cut too much of it out, then it may not sit inside the headlight brackets properly which will affect the ability to aim them or have them sit straight.

You know, I think it will work.

If you compare the size and shape of the heatsink, it actually seems to fit perfect with with the reflector housing on standard H4656 & H4651 bulbs.

http://images.prod.meredith.com/product/a274935e2e8c941e995e90485e870382/4bb3fb78ff21bd30a294f5e6682d97c4c8642a5ce431b706d7 e5e53bc855ba47/l/eiko-46112-h4656-miniature-automotive-light-bulb

Now the only other thing that would concern myself would be the pigtail coming off the back of the housing. It isn't centered and is up towards the top of the assembly. BUT, if you look at the conversion kits that even DMCH sells to install new housings that instead rely upon replaceable capsule bulbs instead of complete sealed beams, you'll notice HUGE openings on the back. All to accommodate the brackets to hold the bulbs in place. I've see those sold for a number of years, yet do not ever recall anyone having to modify the buckets to accept them. And if you compare the bulbs, the connector on the LED units actually is right there within inner diameter of those headlamps. So yeah, I'm pretty sure they'll work.

[Chris4099]

You know, I think it will work.

If you compare the size and shape of the heatsink, it actually seems to fit perfect with with the reflector housing on standard H4656 & H4651 bulbs.


I think you may be right. For some reason I was remembering the bulbs as being more dome shaped. My bad. :) A bracket trim may still be required for the wiring, but that would be minor. For other conversions you do have to enlarge the hole in the back but not to the point of affecting the way it sits in the framing.

[Timeless]

It's cool that you're also in the industry, what's your involvement? I work in chassis engineering for Pierce.
I represent Sutphen here in S. FL. Sales, service, rescue equipment.

[mr_maxime]

Has anyone tried fitting a different headlight assembly on the delorean? I'm not super happy with the 4x6 i got on eBay because the light pattern is awful. after looking at timebender's nose redesigns, i've been wondering if something could be modified to fit in there.

[Timeless]

Has anyone tried fitting a different headlight assembly on the delorean? I'm not super happy with the 4x6 i got on eBay because the light pattern is awful. after looking at timebender's nose redesigns, i've been wondering if something could be modified to fit in there.
https://www.jwspeaker.com/products/4x6-led-headlights-model-8800-evolution/

[mr_maxime]

That's not what I meant. I'm talking about using an aftermarket headlight for something like a 1990 passat and modifying how the headlights attach to make them mount to the delorean.

[Timebender]

If it were me (being the guy who did the mockups), I'd look for something that comes in a 4x12 housing, like this: http://www.autolightpros.com/2005-chevy-impala-black-headlights-pro-yd-chip00-hl-bk.html, and then figure out how to wire it to the DeLorean.

Also, take a small tape measure with you whenever you're out and about, and measure headlights on cars that you like - or just visit dealerships.
When I did the lights in Photoshop, I didn't do any editing aside from scaling them to fit in that area, and those were grabbed from product shots of certain cars - in the car of the round lights, from a Dodge Challenger.

Hope that helps.

[rickjames8]

That's not what I meant. I'm talking about using an aftermarket headlight for something like a 1990 passat and modifying how the headlights attach to make them mount to the delorean.

This idea has been a fascination of mine for some time now - since long before I even bought my car. I study cars as I pass them to see if they'd make good donor headlights. The issue with newer cars is that the headlights bend around to the side of the car, usually incorporating an integrated turn signal. Unless you tried to dremmel that off and then re-seal the housing, 99% of new lights wont work. Even then, trying to find something flat enough to fit in the fascia will be tough. The best options I've seen are these:

88-98 Chevy Truck
95-05 Chevy Astro
98-04 Chevy S10
10-14 Mustang
Late model Challenger
Late model Camaro

Most (all?) of these would require at least grill modifications, and possibly even making a mold of your fascia, then making a fiberglass one and modifying it to fit your new lights without looking weird.

Now the last 2 options are the most interesting prospects. The Challenger style has been photoshopped and can be seen here (http://lukedowding.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Delorean.jpg).

The Camaro ones are pretty square, and the fascia of the Camaro has similar properties to that of the Delorean, so these may fit (http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCFL-U-Style-Tube-2014-2015-Chevy-Camaro-Projector-Black-Headlights-Pair/401039351102?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%2 6asc%3D38530%26meid%3D3f1022039f104e2cb38cca62e272 952b%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D3221 24428419). But it may be that there are weird angles that don't come across in photos.

Now, all of this has just been in my head. No actual measurements have been taken, or even a close look at a physical light. I do think there are cool options out there. I think the black widebody has Nissan lights, but I forger the model.

[Dangermouse]

Steve S of project vixen fame used a mid 90s Maxima headlight iirc. Single unit with high and low beams.

[Timebender]

The Challenger style has been photoshopped and can be seen here (http://lukedowding.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Delorean.jpg).



That's very similar to the design I did last year with this:
https://gsdesign1.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/delorean-round-headlights.jpg?w=2000&h=&crop=1

[DMCVegas]

Before starting, there would be 3 problems here:

The housing is smaller, so you'd need some infill/trim panels to hide the gaps.
Smaller housing also means that it might look a bit out of place.
The curve of the housing is more severe since this is not stepped lights, and was meant to follow the lines of a different vehicle.


Having said that, another option might be the 4th gen Chevrolet C/K Series truck headlights. Be it OEM, or an aftermarket option. It was GM's answer to consolidating quad headlights into a single housing, but again, started with smaller bulbs so it is smaller overall. And of course was contoured to fit a far more curving front clip. But as you can see, it does work on cars.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XWtA0P05nIg/T7K0YJcUQ-I/AAAAAAAACZY/5yfHYKm6ciw/s1600/ban-III-year-one-bre-bandit-run-2012-grill-headlights.jpg


Here is a side by side comparison for the difference in appearance:

http://st.hotrod.com/uploads/sites/21/2007/08/hrdp_0708_05_z-1977_pontiac_firebird_trans_am_bandit_edition-front.jpg

[rickjames8]

That's very similar to the design I did last year

Very nice! I do like the look of that, and of all the potential light swaps, I think this would be one of the most feasible. I also think that the challenger grille could me made to fit with those lights. My only fear is that it then ends up looking too much like the car the donor parts are from when you use both the lights and grilles. I prefer a look that keeps the original feel of the car, but updates it. Your PS seems to do that well.

[Timebender]

Very nice! I do like the look of that, and of all the potential light swaps, I think this would be one of the most feasible. I also think that the challenger grille could me made to fit with those lights. My only fear is that it then ends up looking too much like the car the donor parts are from when you use both the lights and grilles. I prefer a look that keeps the original feel of the car, but updates it. Your PS seems to do that well.
Thanks!
I was looking at the thoughts from DMCVegas, and might get the dimensions of those lights and give that the old Photoshop 1,2 punch as well and see how it pans out. I think if we modeled an insert and then 3d printed it in ABS (can handle a lot of heat) or even PLA then did an injection mold, we could create a very nice housing for it similar to the one on the Firebird.

[Lwanmtr]

I was thinking the same thing..a housing could be made and there are heat rsistant filaments..I've considered getting some to test out on my printer

[Timebender]

I'd love to see this come to light someday...
(see how I did that?)

Cue trumpet "wah wah"..

[knightjp]

That's very similar to the design I did last year with this:
https://gsdesign1.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/delorean-round-headlights.jpg?w=2000&h=&crop=1

I really like this... Very cool design.

[Timebender]

Thanks! Me too. :)