Ignition tumbler sometimes won't turn

[dtavres]

I've had #10515 for a few months now. Of the ~50 times that I've inserted the key into the ignition tumbler and turned it to start the car, it has gotten 'stuck' about 5 times.

By "stuck" I mean that the key won't turn. It slides in and out with no problem, but no matter how much jiggling and wiggling, the tumbler wont' turn.

While trying to get the key to turn, I've banged on the steering column, shaken the entire steering wheel, flipping the key - nothing works.

Then, it seems completely random, the key suddenly turns.

This could be potentially bad, if I drive somewhere that I MUST move the car, but can't.

I'm hoping someone else has been through this and has some tips.

[Elvis]

Dirt in the lock ?

it can be opened and cleaned, but you need two new bolts and the old ones ar not easy to get out.

[dtavres]

Dirt in the lock ?

it can be opened and cleaned, but you need two new bolts and the old ones ar not easy to get out.

Maybe, but probably not... sprayed a fair amount of 'super-lube' in there that a locksmith recommended. Still nothin' :(

[content22207_2]

Been there, done that. Tumbler itself is wearing out. My ignition tumbler behaved similarly until it jambed last year while traveling to the DMCMW open house and the key broke off inside, fortunately in the run position (steering wheel unlocked). If that happens you can remove the electrical portion of the switch off and operate it manually.

Ignition tumbler is 1980's Rover, readily available new in the box on British eBay. Bolts that hold it on are shear heads, similar to the idle screws in the fuel/air mixture unit (they look like big rivets, but are shear heads with the heads snapped off). Use a Dremel tool cutoff wheel to cut slots in them and unscrew them with a flat blade screwdriver. I installed my new switch with regular hex head bolts.

Locksmith disassembled my old tumbler and discovered it was too worn to salvage (I was going to keep it as a spare after the broken off key was removed).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[dtavres]

Been there, done that. Tumbler itself is wearing out...

Thanks Bill!

I looked at the DeLorean Store, and it looks like they are out of stock.

The local locksmith looked it up and found info for the Range Rover... I'll check with them first to see if they have parts and compare the cost to the eBay stuff.

THANK YOU!

[Michael]

If you can, pull the tumbler assembley. I believe it has to be in the on position to come out but I haven't done it in years. There is a small pin that has worked itself out a little and is catching the housing preventing it from turning. You can press it back in but it will probably work itself out again over time....that may be all there is to your problem!

I made another pin from a piece of round stock and it has been fine ever since. That was 2009ish. You may be able to put a drop of thin superglue on the top of the old pin...a small drop on top of the pin, you don't want to glue your tumbler together.

In a emergency you can gently work the key (without forcing anything) and you may get it to turn to the start position, just don't turn it back to lock.

The tumblers are hard to come by but if you are lucky you can fix it cheap.

[Jonathan]

Another possibility could be that the key itself is worn.

How does your key look, Dave? Are the edges crisp and sharp? If they are worn down and rounded, you may benefit from getting a new key cut by laser from the key code.

You can do this a couple different ways. One would be to contact James in Houston and they can cut you a new key, from one of their new blanks, using the key code you need. To determine that key code, you might be able to get it from under the headliner in the car, or you might need them to figure it out from looking closely at a couple photos of your key.

The other way would be to find a local locksmith who also has that same Ilco laser cutting machine, and have them physically scan your current ignition key and determine the key code on the spot. The number itself will not be as crucial, as they will cut a new key on the spot after the machine internally decides what your new one needs to look like.

[content22207_2]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LAND-ROVER-DISCOVERY-1-STG-LOCK-IGNITION-SWITCH-TO-94-/280695179584?hash=item415abc8940:m:m-89JbVnoq9HoBgeeBNFLRg

I had some double sided keys cut -- ignition tumbler on one side and door locks on the other. Rover tumbler and door locks accept Volvo key blanks (Taylor X29 in my case).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Trstno1]

If you can, pull the tumbler assembley. I believe it has to be in the on position to come out but I haven't done it in years. There is a small pin that has worked itself out a little and is catching the housing preventing it from turning. You can press it back in but it will probably work itself out again over time....that may be all there is to your problem!

I made another pin from a piece of round stock and it has been fine ever since. That was 2009ish. You may be able to put a drop of thin superglue on the top of the old pin...a small drop on top of the pin, you don't want to glue your tumbler together.

In a emergency you can gently work the key (without forcing anything) and you may get it to turn to the start position, just don't turn it back to lock.

The tumblers are hard to come by but if you are lucky you can fix it cheap.

I agree with Michael -

If your car has ever been re-keyed the ignition cylinder will have been drilled into and a pin placed into the cylinder to hold it all together after they were done. That was such the case when I first got my car, and I too had issues every once in a while turning the key in the ignition. The pin itself was loose and forcing its way into the cylinder preventing it from turning. I tried and tried to fix it to no avail. Finally I gave up and tracked down another key cylinder with key from someone here on the forum. I paid a pretty penny for it but it worked perfectly and have never had an issue since.

[PJ Grady Inc.]

The ignition lock cylinder is prone to wear and you need to remove the lock and have it gone over by a good locksmith. I've had many reworked over the years by mine. The biggest problem is the housing wears and the ball bearing that guides the key can jamb in the barrel of the housing. BTW we have the correct NOS shear bolts for security and also machined to fit Allen bolts if you prefer easier removal. The best thing all owners can do is retire your original key, a large percentage of which are steel, and substitute our chrome plated brass duplicate or similar brass key. That allows the key to wear rather than transfer extra wear to the cylinder. Brass on brass is much gentler than steel on brass. Check the tumbler cuts on your key to determine if it's chrome plated brass or steel. Periodically lubing all the locks with WD 40 or "Lockease" is also advisable.
Rob

[content22207_2]

Don't know exactly what the failure was, but a locksmith autopsied my OEM tumbler and declared it not worth salvaging.

Considering brand new ones only cost $50 delivered, why even bother?

Bill Robertson
#5939

[dtavres]

Thank you all!!

To the question 'was it ever re-keyed' - probably not. The first owner didn't say it had been, and the 2nd key still has the little metal tag on the ring with the key code. When I had 2 new keys cut, the locksmith said my key looked good and sharp, so he just duplicated my original key. Although, when the tumbler wouldn't turn, he went to his electronic / laser machine, plugged in the code and try another key (which didn't work, as it's the tumbler, not the keys.)

'Pulling the tumbler assembly' - I would assume the instructions are in the shop manual. I'm inclined to schedule time at a trusted locksmith, or at DMC to work on it - unless someone here who has done it, can confirm that it isn't extremely difficult and I should give it a shot.

Again - thanks to you all. I feel a bit better knowing what's going on. Though, I'd REALLY like to see some pictures or video of this 'pin' that is keep the barrel from turning.

[dtavres]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LAND-ROVER-DISCOVERY-1-STG-LOCK-IGNITION-SWITCH-TO-94-/280695179584?hash=item415abc8940:m:m-89JbVnoq9HoBgeeBNFLRg

Any chance you can confirm that THIS is the correct replacement for the DeLorean? Would I be able to have this one re-keyed to my original DeLorean keys?

Thanks!

[content22207_2]

Any chance you can confirm that THIS is the correct replacement for the DeLorean?

I'll know for certain in about two weeks -- since my OEM tumbler isn't salvageable I just bought one as a spare (I've had the auction bookmarked since last year -- that's how I found it so quickly).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Flicky]

I remember seeing a video of how to remove this on youTube...only problem was they labeled the title on youTube as something like 'advanced calculus' so that people couldn't find it in a search to be a car thief. It is linked here someplace...I know not much help, but it gives some hope. I watched it and it wasn't all that bad. Getting the steering wheel off looked to be the most difficult part.

Doesn't DMCH key them for you if you have the code?

[Jonathan]

I remember seeing a video of how to remove this on youTube...only problem was they labeled the title on youTube as something like 'advanced calculus' so that people couldn't find it in a search to be a car thief. It is linked here someplace...I know not much help, but it gives some hope. I watched it and it wasn't all that bad. Getting the steering wheel off looked to be the most difficult part.

Doesn't DMCH key them for you if you have the code?

Oops. Thanks for the reminder. I forgot I made that video. Here it is.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRVIZO9m1RE

I honestly don't think I knew you could get this Range Rover replacement back when mine failed. Or at least I didn't know you could repair it with a new shear pin or Allen head screw. I'd like to get mine out of the box and see if I could make it work again. My tumbler was fine (not perfect, but pretty good) as the portion that failed was that the whole tumbler cylinder just fell out in my lap once buddie's sheet metal screw finally wiggled itself loose. I bought the replacement that's now in my car from a parts car. It wasn't cheap, but wasn't that bad considering how hard they seem to come by. I have this entire assembly still in a box of spares.

Rob or Michael, either of you have a picture of the replacement shear pins/screws?

[dtavres]

Oops. Thanks for the reminder. I forgot I made that video.

Thank you all again.

So... on my car, I'm ASSuming it's a tumbler issue, not an electrical issue... but that video makes me think it could be the electrical??

Are there instructions on how to removed the shroud from the steering column to get to this ignition hardware?

In the video, Jonathan kind of skips over the "one way pin"... I'm not sure what that does.

[content22207_2]

Electrical portion of the switch is just held on with a #0 Phillips screw. There is a metal adapter that goes between the switch and the tumbler. Slot in the switch is too large to turn with a flat blade screwdriver, but you can turn the adapter no problem.

You still need to turn the tumbler to unlock the steering wheel.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[content22207_2]

Correction: switch is held on with a #1 Phillips screw:

41135

Adapter that goes between the switch and the tumbler:

41136 41137

Bill Robertson
#5939

[content22207_2]

Ignition tumbler showed up in today's mail. It is Made in China. It also is an imperfect fit, but can be made to work (you need to file away the column lock boss so it will fit into the hole in the column). Steel lock button itself is the same size -- just need to remove excess aluminum. Tumbler chamber also is shorter than OEM, so the key inserts further into the shroud. Electrical connection is plug & play.

For $45 delivered it is a workable solution if no better options are available, but I'd definitely look for genuine Rover first.

41409

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Bill Robertson
#5939

[dtavres]

Ignition tumbler showed up in today's mail. It is Made in China. It also is an imperfect fit...

Thanks Bill! The photos are a GREAT help to see the difference!

I'll keep looking for a Rover part... or have DMC rebuild mine.

[content22207_2]

That's a Rover tumbler next to it. Costs about three times as much, but is truly plug & play. Britcar.com was showing one left, so I bought it at the same time. Their website say they may be able to get more -- you might want to contact them: http://www.brit-car.co.uk/search.php?query=crc3914

For $25 you get what you pay for. I'll put the Made in China switch on the shelf as a curiosity piece.

Don't know how many NOS Rover tumblers are still out there. At least I know Made in China can work in a pinch.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[dtavres]

That's a Rover tumbler next to it.

Ahh.. I thought it was your original next to the chinese one. Thanks.

[David T]

Ahh.. I thought it was your original next to the chinese one. Thanks.

If you replace the ignition cylinder you must either rekey it to the door locks or rekey the door locks to the new ignition key. Otherwise you will need 2 keys for the car, one for the doors and cubby and the other for the ignition.

[content22207_2]

Or just double cut the key (new ignition tumbler on one side, original door locks and cubby on the other):

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Bill Robertson
#5939

[nkemp]

So looking into why my key won't turn the switch occasionally... I saw this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Ignition-Steering-Lock-and-Key-and-Switch-Assembly-MG-MGB-1974-1980-/160835059387?fits=Model%3AMGB

It looks a bit shorter on the key side than the Delorean's. The vintage is about right. Anyone have easy access to a MG-MGB-1974-1980 for a looksee?

BTW ... The MGB may be a Lucas SSB306

Or ... Lucas SSB304 Steering Lock / ignition switch applications include RANGE ROVER Classic 1992-95

Or ... Lucas SSB302 Steering Lock / ignition switch STC1435 ( this (listed by others as a possible) is the Land Rover STC1435 & applications include LAND ROVER Discovery 1 and RANGE ROVER Classic 1994-1995)

[nkemp]

There is also ...
- Lucas SSB305 RANGE ROVER Classic 1985-92