Issue installing front poly sway bar bushings

[Stainless]

I'm installing the front sway bar bushings. I got to the point where I was ready to install the sway bar and discovered that my sway bars ends are different than what I see in the parts manual. The outside diameter of the sway bar where the new bushings are supposed to go is bigger than the inside diameter of the new poly bushings. Is the thick part of my sway bar end supposed to come off? If so, how?
41211

41212

[PJ Grady Inc.]

I'm installing the front sway bar bushings. I got to the point where I was ready to install the sway bar and discovered that my sway bars ends are different than what I see in the parts manual. The outside diameter of the sway bar where the new bushings are supposed to go is bigger than the inside diameter of the new poly bushings. Is the thick part of my sway bar end supposed to come off? If so, how?
41211

41212

The inner vulcanized sleeves have torn away from the bushings and are rusted onto the bar. This happens but not very often. You'll need torches to heat and expand the sleeves enough to drive them off with a hammer and chisel. You may damage the snub washers while doing so. If you do we have stainless ones for less than NOS. BTW you should inspect your frame and suspension carefully for more rust as I would strongly suspect there will be more elsewhere. How do the control arms look?
Rob

[Stainless]

Scratch my question. After inspecting them closely, I realized that they should come off with a hammer, chisel, and some patience. Here's some pics of the process:
41213
I cleaned it up with a wire wheel and will prep for paint and installation. Thanks anyway!
41214

[Bitsyncmaster]

Scratch my question. After inspecting them closely, I realized that they should come off with a hammer, chisel, and some patience. Here's some pics of the process:
41213
I cleaned it up with a wire wheel and will prep for paint and installation. Thanks anyway!
41214

I had that same problem on one side of my sway bar. The bushings are already split so a cold chisel and hammer was all I needed also.

[content22207_2]

If the sleeves in your new bushings are pressed in, and if they have split seams like OEM, do yourself a favor and replace them with solid (unsplit) sleeves. On both my cars the OEM sleeves had opened up and split the bushings. I used bronze bearing sleeves in my Heninger bushings so they will never rust to the swaybar (Byrne supplies split steel sleeves just like OEM, albeit not vulcanized).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Bitsyncmaster]

All the sleeves with my poly bushings were one piece machined steel (don't remember if it was stainless steel).

[Patrick C]

If the sleeves in your new bushings are pressed in, and if they have split seams like OEM, do yourself a favor and replace them with solid (unsplit) sleeves. On both my cars the OEM sleeves had opened up and split the bushings. I used bronze bearing sleeves in my Heninger bushings so they will never rust to the swaybar (Byrne supplies split steel sleeves just like OEM, albeit not vulcanized).

Bill Robertson
#5939

Hi Bill. I have Bernie's LCAs on the way to me. Do you have a part # for the bronze bearing sleeves?

[content22207_2]

Unfortunately McMaster's order history only goes back 5 years. Just measure the ones that come with your arms and order the same size: http://www.mcmaster.com/#bronze-sleeve-bearings/=11sjkz2

If Byrne is still using the same bushings, the sleeves should pull out and insert by hand (snug fit but not pressed).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Drive Stainless]

Im curious what bushings Byrne is supplying that dont come with sleeves? Are they not polyurethane?

[content22207_2]

Byrne's bushings come with sleeves -- the sleeves just have a split seam, just like OEM. On both my cars seams in the OEM sleeves had opened up, causing the bushing itself to tear. Didn't want the same thing to happen to my new bushings, so I replaced his seamed sleeves with solid ones. I also used bronze so they wouldn't rust to the swaybar.

With all the twisting and torquing OEM LCA's do, it's no wonder swaybar bushing seams open up. Watch the tie rod end drop down when he brakes at :30 -- what you're seeing is the entire LCA rotating around itself (pivot bolt holds the inner end still while the outer end rotates):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMHO4Aydk04

Not only is the LCA rotating around itself, but the entire arm is moving rearward. If you watch the steering rack boot relative to the shock tower you can see that.

Altogether it's a wiggly mess:

41254

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Patrick C]

Unfortunately McMaster's order history only goes back 5 years. Just measure the ones that come with your arms and order the same size: http://www.mcmaster.com/#bronze-sleeve-bearings/=11sjkz2

If Byrne is still using the same bushings, the sleeves should pull out and insert by hand (snug fit but not pressed).

Bill Robertson
#5939

Judging from this blog from 2010, Byrne was not using split sleeves at that time. http://delorean6239.blogspot.com/2010/12/new-lower-control-arms.html


Photo evidence here:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_77MfsVkcA_w/TQGKtZr4g_I/AAAAAAAAAKM/GvbtnSlwoow/s1600/IMG_1006.JPG

I can confirm if this is still the case when I receive my arms soon.

[DMCMW Dave]

I don't see any issue with split rings. I've never seen one open up, in fact the originals are usually rusted to the end of the sway bar (the OP problem) and the failure is that they became unbounded from the rubber.

[PJ Grady Inc.]

I don't see any issue with split rings. I've never seen one open up, in fact the originals are usually rusted to the end of the sway bar (the OP problem) and the failure is that they became unbounded from the rubber.

I totally agree with this.
Rob

[content22207_2]

41289

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Nicholas R]

Byrne's bushings come with sleeves -- the sleeves just have a split seam, just like OEM. On both my cars seams in the OEM sleeves had opened up, causing the bushing itself to tear. Didn't want the same thing to happen to my new bushings, so I replaced his seamed sleeves with solid ones. I also used bronze so they wouldn't rust to the swaybar.

With all the twisting and torquing OEM LCA's do, it's no wonder swaybar bushing seams open up. Watch the tie rod end drop down when he brakes at :30 -- what you're seeing is the entire LCA rotating around itself (pivot bolt holds the inner end still while the outer end rotates):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMHO4Aydk04

Not only is the LCA rotating around itself, but the entire arm is moving rearward. If you watch the steering rack boot relative to the shock tower you can see that.

Altogether it's a wiggly mess:

41254

Bill Robertson
#5939

Holy cow, that is quite the change in caster as the arm moves forward and backward...

[DMC-81]

^ Yes, that is what I thought as well! :eek5:

I guess that's another reason why the brake master cylinder was proportioned 38% Front, 62% Rear.

I wonder what this setup from the DeLorean race car does to help the situation..

41298

Picture is from this thread:
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1418-Delorean-Racing-Car/page2

[content22207_2]

That is an attempt at a traditional thrust arm. Ed Uding tried something similar before opting for faux lower wishbone brackets instead. IIRC he found operational problems. If nothing else, end users installing such thrust arms would need to be able to weld the mounting points (not easy -- frame is only 16 gauge sheet metal at that point).

Owen Malbec triangulated his LCA's to the pivot bolt. Much shallower angle, but they're bound to be an improvement over stock. At one time he was selling those triangulations to others.

Lotus triangulated its lower control arms towards the front:

41299

Common complaint against reducing fore/aft LCA movement is the swaybar won't be able to move up and down with the arm. That is palpable nonsense. Swaybar flex is causing all the problems in the first place. Loasby lower wishbones on Rob's car have virtually no give whatsoever, and his sway bar moves up and down no problem. Next time you have the swaybar off your car stand it upright and pull on it -- you will be amazed how bendy it is.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[content22207_2]

Ed Uding's triangulation:

41300

His mounting point is significantly beefier -- it might have been fabricatable as bolt on unit, but you'd still be pressing against 16 gauge sheet metal. Plus the mounting holes would be blind -- basically you'd be pop riveting it on. Ed's was obviously welded.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[content22207_2]

Owen Malbec's triangulation:

41301

Obviously no frame modification necessary. At one time he was selling these.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[DMCMW Dave]

41289

Bill Robertson
#5939

That looks to me like someone put an extra washer on the end of the sway bar (maybe in an attempt to force caster alignment) and then dramatically over-tightened the retaining nut. NOT a normal in-use failure.

[content22207_2]

Moot point now: I've got solid bronze sleeves in my Heninger bushings, so I should be good to go for the remainder of my natural life.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[PJ Grady Inc.]

41289

Bill Robertson
#5939
Better your car than mine Bill...Lol! Honestly in 35 years I, and apparently Dave S. too, have never seen this happen before. Your car has had one hell of a time on this planet. If it were me I'd book a trip to Mars right now just to get away from the abuse!
Rob

[content22207_2]

I bear absolutely no responsibility for anything a previous owner may or may not have done.

Other than the occasional paint touch up, my front suspension now will outlive me.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[PJ Grady Inc.]

I bear absolutely no responsibility for anything a previous owner may or may not have done.

Other than the occasional paint touch up, my front suspension now will outlive me.

Bill Robertson
#5939
I agree with the first sentence and assume you two be correct with the second. Take no offense as I meant the PO's were rough on the car...not you!
Rob