Craig W460 repair help

[DMC-81]

Hi there,

I'm refurbing and modding my Craig W460 radio. I already replaced the drive band, and I'll install an AUX/iPod jack using Todd Nelson's great instructions.

Question: does anybody have a picture with the bottom cover removed that you can share? My unit has a black spring that was loose/disconnected (above the pencil). It was still hooked to the black metal post at one end, but I'm trying to determine if there is supposed to be a plastic extension where the pencil is pointing, to secure the other end of the spring.

43426

Thanks for your help!

[Elvis]

Just bend the hook of the spring and hang it into the white plastic piece where the plastic hook broke off.

make sure to bend it so that it can move

common problem

[DMC-81]

Thanks Elvis!

I did that today and now I can get the tape to change directions. But I think the spring tension was affected/disrupted by moving it slightly further away, as it either didn't change sides, or changed sides constantly. Have you run into this problem?

I added different sized lock washers to the other side of the spring to compensate. See picture. The best performing one was a 3mm size. I got it to work perfectly one time while the unit was upside down with the bottom cover off... (so I could evaluate plus marvel at 80's tech. :smile:). But then I put the cover on and tried it right side up, and it changed sides constantly.

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Any suggestions? A picture of the full unbroken plastic piece would be very helpful. I looked at the exploded view in the Craig Service Manual, but it wasn't clear enough.

I must say that being able to play my old cassettes briefly today in the car added to the allure of the D for this GenX'er. I already tested my new iPod connection and it sounds good....but it's not the same as fast forwarding to the next song on slightly stretched tape, pressing the Loud/Dolby/Metal buttons to find the best sound, and hearing the cassette eject when you turn off the key.
:headbang:

I'll keep testing...

P.S. Does anyone have a great condition plastic part to sell? If so, PM me. Thanks.

[Elvis]

just bend it as I described it and you're good. again - it must be able to move, if you bend it wrong it will not move - it's self explaining !
no shims
no new plastic piece needed

[DMC-81]

Thanks Elvis!

Well I fiddled with it again tonight, and in my case, without shims it was close to spec, but changed directions 2-5 times on tape insertion before settling down. After more trial and error, I tried a 5mm lock washer and it was perfect! Go figure! :hmm:

Here is a picture of my repaired and modded Craig:

43532

Although I still need to change my original front speakers, the tape deck sounded great, and all buttons work. :elmo1:

However, I'm not out of the woods yet.... My previously working display suddenly doesn't work. :facepalm:

I must have disturbed it enough while I had it apart. It looks like I'll have to fix the flex cable. Any suggestions on this task?

I must say, the price of having somebody fix these units is well worth it, as I have spent a few hours on it, and it is easy to fry something if you're not careful. Many years ago I decided to fix the OEM radio on my Fiero project. Within minutes I had fried the boards. So I spent the next few hours scanning the circuit boards with a magnifying glass and repaired several breaks.
I was lucky to have repaired it. Lesson learned.

Resurrecting the Craig is a trip down memory lane. :smile:

[Elvis]

now you know why I need around 10 hours to update a radio and why I don't sell
my AUX-Input PCBs asa a kit as it is too much work and complicated.

The spring problem must be done in 70% of all radios and I never used a shim.

have fun with the display

[Gregadeth]

I opened up my head unit expecting to find a damaged flex cable because my display wasn't showing the digits completely (you would only see parts of the numbers). But the flex cable looks good with no issues. Does this mean the display itself (the tape door) might be bad?

[DMC-81]

I opened up my head unit expecting to find a damaged flex cable because my display wasn't showing the digits completely (you would only see parts of the numbers). But the flex cable looks good with no issues. Does this mean the display itself (the tape door) might be bad?

Hi there,

I haven't delved into the display yet, but I found this article: http://www.dmcnews.com/Techsection/radiodisplay.html
to get me started. I would suggest verifying the flex cable integrity with a magnifying glass if you haven't done so yet, as it seems really small.

[iflights]

My Craig radio works, but tape drive won't accept a tape. Is there a place this braintrust knows of who I can ship it to that would do the work? I don't feel comfortable attempting to do it myself.

I realize cost to repair could likely exceed cost to replace with a modern unit, but I'd like to keep original if possible.

[DMC-81]

For the benefit of people that want to attempt a drive band / belt replacement, here is what I learned:

1) there is 1 drive band
2) it is accessed via the bottom cover
3) the below picture shows where it goes
4) be careful of the small spring under the middle screw on the pulley cover (aka flywheel base)
5) the Service Manual is found here (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10398-Craig-W460-Owners-Manual-amp-Schematic-Circuit-Diagram).

Here in the US, I got my drive band from Studio Sound Electronics (http://www.studiosoundelectronics.com/cassette.htm#BELTS). They were described as a small square belt, part number SBS10.5 ...less than $3 each. There was another web store - turntableneedles.com (http://www.turntableneedles.com/find10.asp?manfg=CRAIG&modelname=W460&Select=Model) that had them, but Studio Sound had the best price.

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Cheers,

[DMC-81]

My Craig radio works, but tape drive won't accept a tape. Is there a place this braintrust knows of who I can ship it to that would do the work? I don't feel comfortable attempting to do it myself.

I realize cost to repair could likely exceed cost to replace with a modern unit, but I'd like to keep original if possible.

Hi There,

You can ask Dave Graham (sdg3205) or Elvis. Those are the 2 that I know of. Well worth it based on my experience.

I am of the same opinion to keep it original. To each his own. :smile:

[DMC-81]

Well, I removed the display and it has the classic split in the flex cable around the rod area. If I press on it I can make connect and the display works just fine, so it's just the flex cable. I'm actually glad that it broke while I have the stereo out.

On to having it fixed....

43583

[Elvis]

thin copper wires work fine.

best I found were very thin insulated wires from an Apple notebook display

not thin enough - not flexible enough -> display not fully closing

[Gregadeth]

43626 43627

Is this the part of the flex cable that gets damaged (red arrows)? What's the simplest method to getting the display to work? I don't plan on ever using cassettes, so the tape door will stay shut after the fix. I'm hoping I don't have to solder in new wires, just wondering if there's a simpler way. Dana previously said that if you press on it then it works fine, so maybe there's a way to have it permanently pressed (?) making it simple without re-wiring. Thanks

[Jack]

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[Gregadeth]

Today I was planning on soldering new wires like in the above pictures. But I wanted to test the unit again, so I connected the power wires to a car battery and heard a small pop, smelled some burning and there was no power from the unit. I had tested the unit on a car battery a couple weeks ago, and then unit was working, even connected to a speaker and could hear the radio. I opened it up today and I think these 4 might be the problem, as that's where the smell seemed to be coming from:

43766

My first thought was I might have a burned a fuse inside the radio. I'm reading about an "inline fuse", is this fuse inside the radio, or on the wiring that leads into the car?

[David T]

Today I was planning on soldering new wires like in the above pictures. But I wanted to test the unit again, so I connected the power wires to a car battery and heard a small pop, smelled some burning and there was no power from the unit. I had tested the unit on a car battery a couple weeks ago, and then unit was working, even connected to a speaker and could hear the radio. I opened it up today and I think these 4 might be the problem, as that's where the smell seemed to be coming from:

43766

My first thought was I might have a burned a fuse inside the radio. I'm reading about an "inline fuse", is this fuse inside the radio, or on the wiring that leads into the car?

Is it possible when you hooked it up to the car battery you had the polarity reversed? Looks like you popped the electrolytic caps, they are very sensitive to reverse polarity. There are 2 in-line fuses external to the radio, 1 for ignition power and 1 for constant power.

[Gregadeth]

Is it possible when you hooked it up to the car battery you had the polarity reversed? Looks like you popped the electrolytic caps, they are very sensitive to reverse polarity. There are 2 in-line fuses external to the radio, 1 for ignition power and 1 for constant power.Thanks David. It turns out you are correct, I had hooked up the + and - backwards. I was using another car battery for this and went by the color of the caps instead of the cables. Could I have caused other damage as well? Anything else in there that's sensitive to reverse polarity?

[Elvis]

That black stuff on the caps is glue.

As you can see in the schematic of the radio ( I expect you have it and can read it when you try to work on the radio)
one wire has a diode and the other does NOT.

All you can do for the moment is - test it correctly connected and hope...

BTW - this is why I use a power supply with current limiter for such tests.

But hey - sh.t happens and usually the radios can be repaired. The caps were old and dry anyways and
cost like 20 cents each.

I have spare parts/old stripped radios if spare parts are needed.

[DMC-81]

Hi there,

Just an update on the Craig. I was able to get a repaired flex cable and display from Dave Graham. Thanks Dave!

Old and new parts...
44045

Installing the display..
44046

Installed.
44047

Radio installed and tested..
44049

MP3 jack installed in the ashtray..
44050

All buttoned up..
44052

Thanks everyone for your help!

Cheers,

[DMC-81]

Hi there,

I thought I'd share a cassette to Bluetooth product that I got today...

44158

I just inserted the cassette and it allows me to play my music wirelessly from my phone and also hands free cell phone through the car speakers. At first test today, it sounded great, and didn't have any significant static/noise. Not bad for $21..

I'll try to upload a video soon...

[Delorean3610]

Hi there,

I thought I'd share a cassette to Bluetooth product that I got today...

44158

I just inserted the cassette and it allows me to play my music wirelessly from my phone and also hands free cell phone through the car speakers. At first test today, it sounded great, and didn't have any significant static/noise. Not bad for $21..

I'll try to upload a video soon...

I have the same one, works great!

[Domi]

This is great, no more wire :)

[Morpheus]

Now you have given me quite the conundrum. I was all set to upgrade my stereo system to a modern unit with Bluetooth and such, but now...

Question though: When a tape is inserted into the deck, does the door stay open to allow the mic cable to hang out, or does it close behind the tape?

[Elvis]

it stays open, the cassette will shoot out every time you shut the radio/ car off,
the tape has to work properly and from experience I can asure you that it won't work
very long with the old rubber belt still in use.

I'd like to hear it to get an idea of the sound quality.


please correct me if I am wrong.

[DMC-81]

Now you have given me quite the conundrum. I was all set to upgrade my stereo system to a modern unit with Bluetooth and such, but now...

Question though: When a tape is inserted into the deck, does the door stay open to allow the mic cable to hang out, or does it close behind the tape?

Hi Brandon,

The microphone does not affect the door. Here are few pics to demonstrate...

The mic stores inside a little door in the cassette. Here it is deployed..
44233

Inserted partway into the cassette slot..
44234

Inserted fully..
44235

Easy pairing on your phone..
44238

Ready to rock and roll...
44237
(In this case, Brand New Day by Bryan Adams):headbang:

So far so good!

[Domi]

Thanks for the pic :thumbup:

[Col Bennett]

Replaced my belt today thanks to the really helpful tips and photos in this thread.

Had a huge clean-up job as my original belt turned to an insanely sticky black goo on touch and had coated every spindle in the deck. It took 2 hours of meticulous cleaning with rags, qtips and rubbing alcohol to remove the mess. It's amazing to see how much rubber degrades over nearly 37 years.

Dana - good shout on the 5mm washer suggestion on post #5. Worked a treat because my little clip had broken too and it kept switching sides without it.

Hit one snag. Cassettes now play, fast forward, rewind, change sizes great BUT, the output volume from every cassette I've tried is really low - almost inaudible unless I crank the volume to max. There's no bass, just a trickle of mid-range output. I've tried cleaning the head with alcohol and am out of ideas. The radio is full volume perfect, but I can't seem to get any meaningful gain from cassettes.

Any ideas?

[David T]

The head may be bad or out of alignment. Also, if you have very old tapes or they were stored where they got hot it can affect them badly. IMHO not worth wasting time over. Time to move into the 21st century.

[DMC-81]

The head may be bad or out of alignment. Also, if you have very old tapes or they were stored where they got hot it can affect them badly. IMHO not worth wasting time over. Time to move into the 21st century.

David, some people enjoy the 20th century stuff, which is what this thread is about.



Replaced my belt today thanks to the really helpful tips and photos in this thread.

Had a huge clean-up job as my original belt turned to an insanely sticky black goo on touch and had coated every spindle in the deck. It took 2 hours of meticulous cleaning with rags, qtips and rubbing alcohol to remove the mess. It's amazing to see how much rubber degrades over nearly 37 years.

Dana - good shout on the 5mm washer suggestion on post #5. Worked a treat because my little clip had broken too and it kept switching sides without it.

Hit one snag. Cassettes now play, fast forward, rewind, change sizes great BUT, the output volume from every cassette I've tried is really low - almost inaudible unless I crank the volume to max. There's no bass, just a trickle of mid-range output. I've tried cleaning the head with alcohol and am out of ideas. The radio is full volume perfect, but I can't seem to get any meaningful gain from cassettes.

Any ideas?

Thanks Colin. :) As for the gain, maybe inspect the capacitors (the little can like things) on the board(s). They should have a flat bottom. If they are rounded they are blown. I've heard that they make the built-in amp inoperable.

Other than that, it may need to be sent to one of the people that repairs them on here, e.g. Elvis or Dave Graham (if he still has a guy that does it), among others.

[Col Bennett]

The head may be bad or out of alignment. Also, if you have very old tapes or they were stored where they got hot it can affect them badly. IMHO not worth wasting time over. Time to move into the 21st century.

Thanks David. I'm all about originality so keen to get the cassette player fully functional again. Believe it or not, I still have new cassettes to play.


Thanks Colin. :) As for the gain, maybe inspect the capacitors (the little can like things) on the board(s). They should have a flat bottom. If they are rounded they are blown. I've heard that they make the built-in amp inoperable.

Other than that, it may need to be sent to one of the people that repairs them on here, e.g. Elvis or Dave Graham (if he still has a guy that does it), among others.

Thanks Dana. Yeah, I'll take a look. I'm thinking it might be a job for Elvis or Dave Graham's guy. Keen to get it fixed as everything else on the unit works great.

[David T]

If originality is important to you then go for it. Also consider there are shops that can gut the unit and fill it with 21st century technology and still maintain the outward appearance of the 20th century. In many ways we all use the latest technology to repair, maintain, and upgrade many of the systems of the car. Consider everyone using Bitmaster's upgrades for example.As long as you can undo changes I say go for it. The only place originality is important is in a Concours. I favor reliability and safety over originality.

[dmcnc]

I had this same issue (huge volume drop when playing cassette and sound similar to large hall - definitely not stereo quality).
The culprit ended up being the VERY small gauge wiring (5 wires) connecting the cassette head to the first board on the preamp stage. It seems that vibration from driving and cassette ejecting stress the wire ends until they break leaving you with an incomplete reading of your cassette. I was able to cut and solder them back in place, but I did purchase a slightly larger gauge set for replacement if these break in the future. Results - full, stereo sound coming out of the head as it should! I'm very impressed with Type IV cassettes on the Craig.
61765
61766





Replaced my belt today thanks to the really helpful tips and photos in this thread.

Had a huge clean-up job as my original belt turned to an insanely sticky black goo on touch and had coated every spindle in the deck. It took 2 hours of meticulous cleaning with rags, qtips and rubbing alcohol to remove the mess. It's amazing to see how much rubber degrades over nearly 37 years.

Dana - good shout on the 5mm washer suggestion on post #5. Worked a treat because my little clip had broken too and it kept switching sides without it.

Hit one snag. Cassettes now play, fast forward, rewind, change sizes great BUT, the output volume from every cassette I've tried is really low - almost inaudible unless I crank the volume to max. There's no bass, just a trickle of mid-range output. I've tried cleaning the head with alcohol and am out of ideas. The radio is full volume perfect, but I can't seem to get any meaningful gain from cassettes.

Any ideas?

[mark w]

i have my craig out of the car and the covers off and i am going to replace the ribbon cable to the door display.
how to remove the old one to install the new one?
how to remove the ribbon from the main board? just pull it out of the black plastic part?
how to remove the two flat bars on the door itself to remove the ribbon, or do you not?

thanks

[Elvis]

I can repair it completely during winter time.
PM me if interested. I'm located in Germany.

[Rhye]

how to remove the ribbon from the main board?
just pull it out of the black plastic part?


Yes.



how to remove the two flat bars on the door itself to remove the ribbon, or do you not?


You have to unclip the transparent window from the metal structure of the door and take the display & ribbon out. Then you need to unsolder the old ribbon from the display PCB and solder the new one.

[Malevy]

I can assist with Craig radio repairs (USA based).