Removing the axle

[Bitsyncmaster]

Anyone else ever have problems getting the bolts out of the axle. I got all but one out using a crows foot on my impact. I guess I need to heat the plate but it's pretty close to the transmission. Maybe I have to rig up some steel sheet to prevent getting heat to close to the transmission.

[David T]

You should be able to remove them with an open-ended wrench. Takes a bit of time and you have to push the C/V boot out of the way. You should not need to use an impact gun and certainly not heat. Maybe the car was flooded and the bolts rusted?

[Delta DeLorean]

Hope you get the last one out ok Dave.
Maybe a good idea to replace the old bolts with new ones.
Delorean Club UK sells them if you can't find them locally.
Planning on changing mine as well.43750

[Bitsyncmaster]

Hope you get the last one out ok Dave.
Maybe a good idea to replace the old bolts with new ones.
Delorean Club UK sells them if you can't find them locally.
Planning on changing mine as well.43750

Thanks. What is the install torque on the bolts. Since you can't get a socket on the hex head, those cap bolts may be better.

[novadmc]

Thanks. What is the install torque on the bolts. Since you can't get a socket on the hex head, those cap bolts may be better.

i think this is the torque spec you want:

Shaft to inner and outer drive shafts size:M10 x 17 40NM/30ftlb

[Andrew]

Thanks. What is the install torque on the bolts. Since you can't get a socket on the hex head, those cap bolts may be better.

I replaced 5052's stock bolts with a set of the allen head bolts that I sourced from McMaster. The installation was downright easy. I still have the box at home if you want the part number. I think Bill posted the necessary information somewhere on Today.

[Morpheus]

^Yes, could you post the part number?

[Bitsyncmaster]

Got the axle out. That one stuck bolt came out after I removed all the bolts and put some PB blaster on the back thread side. I suspect removing all the bolts let the impact twist the whole shaft just a little. Never had much luck with PB blaster but maybe that helped.

Next is driving out the pin that holds the flange on the drive shaft in the transmission. Yes I have drained the oil already. I'm replacing the leaking seal since I had to remove the axle with the torn boot.

[DMCMW Dave]

Got the axle out. That one stuck bolt came out after I removed all the bolts and put some PB blaster on the back thread side. I suspect removing all the bolts let the impact twist the whole shaft just a little. Never had much luck with PB blaster but maybe that helped.

Next is driving out the pin that holds the flange on the drive shaft in the transmission. Yes I have drained the oil already. I'm replacing the leaking seal since I had to remove the axle with the torn boot.

When you go to drive that pin out there are two caveats:

1 - You'll need a longer punch than you might have handy to get the pin all the way out.

2 - Be VERY aware if where the pin is going out the other side. It's very possible to jam it into the side of the transmission, before it is all the way out. Then you can't rotate the flange, you can't drive the pin back in, and you can't drive it out far enough to get the flange off. Then you are in the position of trying to cut the pin in a location that you can barely see!

[SS Spoiler]

Dave......retired but helping

[David T]

Some other things to know about when fixing output seals leaks. Check the sealing surface on the output flange, it often gets grooved and will make the new seal leak. Options are to use a "Speedi-Sleeve" or equivalent, weld and grind the old output flange, or replace it. DO NOT remove the large adjusting nut, you can replace the seal without having to remove it.

[Bitsyncmaster]

OEM axle bolt is a grade 8.8 M10 x 1.5 and 60 mm long. Need 12 each axle.

[Bitsyncmaster]

What is the purpose of the little metal plates that go under the bolts and lock washers (one plate for two bolts). I guessing it's just a spacer or maybe a better surface for the lock washer to bite to.

[Rich_NYS]

When you go to drive that pin out there are two caveats:

1 - You'll need a longer punch than you might have handy to get the pin all the way out.

2 - Be VERY aware if where the pin is going out the other side. It's very possible to jam it into the side of the transmission, before it is all the way out. Then you can't rotate the flange, you can't drive the pin back in, and you can't drive it out far enough to get the flange off. Then you are in the position of trying to cut the pin in a location that you can barely see!

+1

I was fortunate to read a similar post from Dave just before I did mine a few years ago.


Now if I had only double-checked that I had the proper size quality punch to drive the pin out:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?9695-Transaxle-flange-removal-problem&p=142533&viewfull=1#post142533

[DMCMW Dave]

What is the purpose of the little metal plates that go under the bolts and lock washers (one plate for two bolts). I guessing it's just a spacer or maybe a better surface for the lock washer to bite to.

They are essentially washers. The factory calls the "lock plates" but I don't think they really lock anything. True locking plates have tabs that bend up against the bolt flats to keep them from unscrewing. I don't think there is room there for a standard round flatwasher, kind of like the back of the water pump.

Interesting note - I see this axle design on tons of other cars, typically German but probably on Swedish too. They ALWAYS use Allen head bolts, which are much easier to install and remove than the hex head bolts. Someone was lazy in the engineering specs department that day.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Interesting note - I see this axle design on tons of other cars, typically German but probably on Swedish too. They ALWAYS use Allen head bolts, which are much easier to install and remove than the hex head bolts. Someone was lazy in the engineering specs department that day.

I went ahead and ordered Allen head bolts grade 12.9 and also new lock washers.

[Bitsyncmaster]

That split pin does not want to move via hammer and punch. I can't get a lot of swing on the hammer since the car is just up on blocks. I shot some PB blaster into the pin and will try again later.

I guess I could weld a punch on my air impact hammer. Another possibility is a make up a tool that I can bolt to the flange and have a threaded rod to push the pin out.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Got the pin out. I guess that PB blaster worked. I used a 0.228" dia. ground steel rod as my punch which worked out to be the perfect dia. That's the nice thing about a machinist tool box is lots of stock to chose from for tools. The Flange pulled off pretty easy and no sign of rust but I planning on getting Grady's Flange with the SS sleeve. My pin looks like I was driving the tapered end. Are all the pins shaped like this? I guess I should get a new pin.

Next is to remove the old seal.

Also, with a punch that dia, it makes you keep the position centered between the ring locks so the other side where the pin exits is correct.

[Bitsyncmaster]

The "felt" part of the seal popped right off. Now I'm not sure how much of the seal is left since I have not got the new seal yet. So I can't really see where to punch the rest of the seal out. I don't want to damage that locking ring that the seal sits in. I'm temped to mark where the ring is now and remove it so I can verify the seal surface is clean and will not leak when the new seal is installed.

I know you all will say don't touch the ring. That drive shaft has a lot of play anyway so I may bump it a little tighter.

[David T]

Resist the temptation to touch that adjusting nut. Just get a bar or long screwdriver in there and pry the seal out.

[DMCMW Dave]

I know you all will say don't touch the ring. That drive shaft has a lot of play anyway so I may bump it a little tighter.

You are right. Don't touch the ring.

That ring does not change drive shaft play. It changes tension (pressure) on the differential carrier bearings, which don't have any play in them. Ever. On an automatic you can set gear lash because there are two rings, but not on a manual.

[novadmc]

The "felt" part of the seal popped right off. Now I'm not sure how much of the seal is left since I have not got the new seal yet. So I can't really see where to punch the rest of the seal out. I don't want to damage that locking ring that the seal sits in. I'm temped to mark where the ring is now and remove it so I can verify the seal surface is clean and will not leak when the new seal is installed.

I know you all will say don't touch the ring. That drive shaft has a lot of play anyway so I may bump it a little tighter.

here's what you're looking at when removing the old seal from when i did mine last year. old and busted on the left, new hotness on the right.
in the process of removing mine, the felt, spring and metal rings all got busted out.

43796


just get in there with a hose pick ( I think i recall using a right angle pick, and then switching to a flat head screw driver and hammer and deforming the metral retaining ring built into the seal to deform it to make it easier to pull out.

once its out, just put the new one in and tap it in (a socket of the same diameter may help aide in getting it in straight and just slightly proud).

and yeah, i heeded all the warning and didnt touch the ring

[Bitsyncmaster]

I was going to "chase" the threads in the wheel flange but it looks like those threads were cut to a very tight fit. My standard tap would start cutting some metal so I stopped. Unless I can get an undersized tap, I will not chase the threads.

FYI:
Taps and dies can be made for tight fit or loose fit threads. They go from under size L3, L2, L1, H1, H2, H3 etc.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Well I gave up on removing that seal under the car. Maybe on a lift it would have worked. I pulled the "no touch" ring. There is a metal plate pressed onto the back of that ring and it shows the flange was hitting that ring. So the bearing is way to loose. With the ring removed I can move the shaft a good 0.10" side to side. I see the roller bearings moving. So I think that ring does press (set the clearance) on the on the bearing. Don't know if the bearing has a taper to control play via pressure.

Any way, the lock tab already had a "T" punched onto the center to show where it was installed. It took 8 turns to remove the ring. There is a large O-ring that seals the threads from oil leak on the ring. The ring is a soft "pot metal" so I was doing a little damage trying to remove the seal.

Now waiting on Grady to get back to me for a parts order.

[dn010]

Can you post where you got these?


I went ahead and ordered Allen head bolts grade 12.9 and also new lock washers.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Can you post where you got these?

https://www.boltdepot.com/Product-Details.aspx?product=6589

I will let you know how they fit when I get them.

[FABombjoy]

That ring does not change drive shaft play.
I do sincerely accept that I might be crazy but this is my own leaky gearbox story:

-Somewhere around 2006 I replaced lip seals and removed that nut to replace the big O ring before "don't touch it!!!" was common knowledge
-Pulled and sleeved the flanges.
-I marked it in 2 dimensions and returned it to stock position.

-In 2012 leak from drivers side was back. Cut old sleeve from flange, prepped and installed the sleeve better this time (sleeve was slightly tweaked)
-Changed the DS lip seal and accidentally drove it right through the adjuster nut and into the trans. Pulled the nut again to extract the seal from the inside of the trans.
-Bench installed lip seal and reinstalled nut, again to original location.
-Noted some wobble on the axle shafts. On a lark, I tightened the nut a bit while continuously wiggling the output shafts and tapping each side with a soft mallet to ensure nothing was binding up. Added maybe 10 degrees additional tightening and wobble seem to decrease noticeably.
-Reinstalled axles and it's been leak free since. No noise.

If I did it again I'd measure before & after free play. At the time it really seemed like some of the slack came out from that extra tightening. Is there a good cross section of the parts stack-up so I can visualize what surfaces the nut is contacting?

It would be easy for me to return the nut to factory setting. If it's been running noise-free for a few thousand miles should I just leave it?

[DMCMW Dave]

It would be easy for me to return the nut to factory setting. If it's been running noise-free for a few thousand miles should I just leave it?

Should be OK to leave it. If you did anything really bad it would have caused some new gear whine or messed up the bearings by now.

The workshop manual gives a description of how to set the nut. (page f:06:03). On a new trans build (i.e. new bearings) there should be slight resistance, but once broken in the bearings spin very freely but with no side-side slop. You've retightened them slightly, but probably not enough to hurt anything.

[Bitsyncmaster]

One photo is showing the metal plate that's pressed into the inside of the ring. You can see the damage from the flange rubbing on one side only. I don't see any marks on the flange though.

Other photo is the inside of the ring showing the contact points are 0.250" inch from the ring OD. The last photo is showing the bearing still installed. So it looks like the point of contact is the "cage" that holds the rollers in the bearing. I would think the cage has to rotate although I don't see any wear other than a shiny surface on the ring contact points.

I assume that whole bearing stays flooded with gear oil.

Edit.

I just measured and the ring presses on the outer race of the bearing. So it's not contacting a rotating surface.

[Bitsyncmaster]

If I did it again I'd measure before & after free play. At the time it really seemed like some of the slack came out from that extra tightening. Is there a good cross section of the parts stack-up so I can visualize what surfaces the nut is contacting?

+1
What holds the inner race of that output bearing in place.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Looks like this drawing of the transmission shows that roller bearing has a reverse taper so pressing the outer race in would take up slack and that is what holds the inner race onto the shaft.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Should be OK to leave it. If you did anything really bad it would have caused some new gear whine or messed up the bearings by now.

The workshop manual gives a description of how to set the nut. (page f:06:03). On a new trans build (i.e. new bearings) there should be slight resistance, but once broken in the bearings spin very freely but with no side-side slop. You've retightened them slightly, but probably not enough to hurt anything.

"Used bearings: Differential should turn free without any play in the bearings".

Another note:
The seal mating surface is 14.7 mm deep but the top has a little chamfer so you should install the new seal at least flush to the surface. Old seal PN shows IES 42x58x10x13. The top of that seal is just a rubber lip which may be the "13" number on the seal

[DMCMW Dave]

+1
What holds the inner race of that output bearing in place.

Press fit



Sent from phone

[David T]

Press fit



Sent from phone

By turning that nut, not only are you affecting the preload on the bearings, you are also changing the preload between the pinion and crownwheel. There is no good way to set that without taking the transaxle out, disassembling it, setting the preload and then reassembling and reinstalling the transaxle. An awful lot of work just because you wanted to touch that adjuster! The consequences of messing that preload up are damaged carrier bearings, pinion, and crownwheel.

[Bitsyncmaster]

By turning that nut, not only are you affecting the preload on the bearings, you are also changing the preload between the pinion and crownwheel. There is no good way to set that without taking the transaxle out, disassembling it, setting the preload and then reassembling and reinstalling the transaxle. An awful lot of work just because you wanted to touch that adjuster! The consequences of messing that preload up are damaged carrier bearings, pinion, and crownwheel.

That is not what the workshop book says. Unless I missed something. Can you give me a page where it says that?

[DMCMW Dave]

That is not what the workshop book says. Unless I missed something. Can you give me a page where it says that?

It's true on the automatic, not on the manual. See page G:09:07 in the manual.

The manual only has the adjuster on one side, therefore only bearing load is adjustable. On the automatic you can actually move the ring gear from side to side, i.e. set the ring/pinion gear backlash as well as the bearing load.

[Bitsyncmaster]

It's true on the automatic, not on the manual. See page G:09:07 in the manual.

The manual only has the adjuster on one side, therefore only bearing load is adjustable. On the automatic you can actually move the ring gear from side to side, i.e. set the ring/pinion gear backlash as well as the bearing load.

Now I see where the confusion came from.

This thread needs to be renamed for seal replacement or bearing load adjustment.

So I'm guessing this miss adjustment was a factory problem. Since the bearings were new maybe they just did the force calibration without checking there was no play in the bearings.

[David T]

Now I see where the confusion came from.

This thread needs to be renamed for seal replacement or bearing load adjustment.

So I'm guessing this miss adjustment was a factory problem. Since the bearings were new maybe they just did the force calibration without checking there was no play in the bearings.

The pinion/crownwheel preload is not adjustable in the manual trans (at least not easily) but it is preset and once you mess up the bearings you can lose it. When you set the preload on the bearings you are assuming the clearance will be correct for the pinion and crownwheel. The factory didn't mess up on the bearing adjustment, I have yet to see one "messed up" that wasn't touched by someone later. That is a finicky adjustment and once moved, is a lot of work to properly set because you have pushed the bearing ring in too far and now how do you get it loose again without loosening the case? In cases where I have had to remove that adjuster nut I make punch marks so I can put that adjuster back EXACTLY where it was and not any tighter. It also helps to have the special tool so you don't damage the adjuster, it is soft and can't take much abuse.

[Nicholas R]

Dave(s), I have attached 2 PDFs that should help. The first is an excerpt from the DeLorean manual showing the preload adjustment method. The other is an excerpt from the 1976-1980 Renault 20 manual, which has the same Renault 369 transmission as the DeLorean. The Renault's has a little more info and actually discusses how to adjust the pinion preload with shims/washers (though I'd imagine the need for that is rare). Both documents mention how to adjust the bearing preload.

For what it's worth, the whole "used bearings should spin freely," is total BS. One, "spin freely" is a very arbitrary. Two, I've done preload checks on 4 different transmissions of different mileages, as well as installed new differential bearings, and I've hardly seen a difference in the resistance. None of them have ever "spun freely," and how could they? If you're rotating the differential assembly, you're back driving the output shaft, so there's always going to be resistance. I always shoot for 5-7lbs whether the bearings are new or used.

This being said, I have noticed a difference between before I removed the preload nut, and after I put it back in the exact same spot. Personally, I wouldn't trust just putting it back in the same spot after completely removing it. I would definitely go through the process for re-setting the preload. The last thing you want is any kind of play or chatter between the pinion and crown gear. That's a good way to start damaging teeth.

I've never tried adjusting the bearing preload with the transmission in the car, but I'd bet with a little math it could be done roughly. If you put the wheel flanges on the differential output shafts and do the string pull force gauge test about those, and account for the difference in force based on the difference in diameter between the flange and the differential housing, you could probably do it. Just be sure the car is in neutral. I would imagine you'd need something like 10-15lbs of force. Just a thought.

43950

43949

[Bitsyncmaster]

The Renault PDF is cut off a little on the right side but I think it is talking about a ring adjustment on both sides of the transmission. So is it really the same transmission as in the DeLorean?

[Nicholas R]

The Renault PDF is cut off a little on the right side but I think it is talking about a ring adjustment on both sides of the transmission. So is it really the same transmission as in the DeLorean?

Crap, good catch. I cut out the wrong 2 pages. The Renault 20 also came with the Renault 352 transmission (as well as the 367 four-speed and 369 five-speed). Only the 352 has the adjustment on both side. I was skimming through the document until I saw the figure of the force gauge pulling the string.

Sorry, here are the correct pages pertaining to the 369:
43953

[Bitsyncmaster]

https://www.boltdepot.com/Product-Details.aspx?product=6589

I will let you know how they fit when I get them.

The bolts arrived. They can screw into the flange that was pulled on the transmission side just by finger force. Can't do finger force on the wheel flange. So I may chase the threads on that wheel flange. The new bolt threads are 0.002" larger dia. than the stock bolts. So it looks like the bolts will work nicely.

[dn010]

The bolts arrived. They can screw into the flange that was pulled on the transmission side just by finger force. Can't do finger force on the wheel flange. So I may chase the threads on that wheel flange. The new bolt threads are 0.002" larger dia. than the stock bolts. So it looks like the bolts will work nicely.

Awesome, thanks for the info and review. I'll definitely be getting these, it will save a ton of time any time the axles need to be removed. It takes forever with a 17mm open end wrench removing all of them!

[Bitsyncmaster]

I chased the threaded holes in the wheel flange. Funny that same tap passed easily in the the transmission side flange but had to cut a little metal on the wheel flange.

Just have to clean the transmission up from the long time leak and wait for my new parts to arrive. Will be nice not to have that oil spot on my garage floor anymore.

Those new bolts use an 8 mm "Allen wrench". The socket calls it an H8.

[David T]

Dave(s), I have attached 2 PDFs that should help. The first is an excerpt from the DeLorean manual showing the preload adjustment method. The other is an excerpt from the 1976-1980 Renault 20 manual, which has the same Renault 369 transmission as the DeLorean. The Renault's has a little more info and actually discusses how to adjust the pinion preload with shims/washers (though I'd imagine the need for that is rare). Both documents mention how to adjust the bearing preload.

For what it's worth, the whole "used bearings should spin freely," is total BS. One, "spin freely" is a very arbitrary. Two, I've done preload checks on 4 different transmissions of different mileages, as well as installed new differential bearings, and I've hardly seen a difference in the resistance. None of them have ever "spun freely," and how could they? If you're rotating the differential assembly, you're back driving the output shaft, so there's always going to be resistance. I always shoot for 5-7lbs whether the bearings are new or used.

This being said, I have noticed a difference between before I removed the preload nut, and after I put it back in the exact same spot. Personally, I wouldn't trust just putting it back in the same spot after completely removing it. I would definitely go through the process for re-setting the preload. The last thing you want is any kind of play or chatter between the pinion and crown gear. That's a good way to start damaging teeth.

I've never tried adjusting the bearing preload with the transmission in the car, but I'd bet with a little math it could be done roughly. If you put the wheel flanges on the differential output shafts and do the string pull force gauge test about those, and account for the difference in force based on the difference in diameter between the flange and the differential housing, you could probably do it. Just be sure the car is in neutral. I would imagine you'd need something like 10-15lbs of force. Just a thought.

43950

43949

To adjust the bearing preload you are supposed to do it with the output shaft removed so the pinion is not being turned by the crownwheel. That way you are feeling/measuring ONLY the bearing preload. Of course to do that you must remove and disassemble the transaxle.

[Bitsyncmaster]

To adjust the bearing preload you are supposed to do it with the output shaft removed so the pinion is not being turned by the crownwheel. That way you are feeling/measuring ONLY the bearing preload. Of course to do that you must remove and disassemble the transaxle.

Well I'm just going to adjust it so the side to side movement is gone or almost gone. It would have to be better than the 0.03 to 0.04" slop that it had. We never used any gauges when tapered front wheel bearing were adjusted when you repacked those bearings with new grease in the old days.

[Drive Stainless]

Well I'm just going to adjust it so the side to side movement is gone or almost gone. It would have to be better than the 0.03 to 0.04" slop that it had. We never used any gauges when tapered front wheel bearing were adjusted when you repacked those bearings with new grease in the old days.

Dave,

FWIW, I had two Renault transaxles side-by-side at one point and removed both differential adjustment nuts while counting the turns. Both came out in the realm of 8-1/4 turns before the nut disengaged from the casing.

While I don't work for Renault, I think it's unlikely that the factory workers assembled the transaxle with only the differential, adjusted the nut using a scale, and then disassembled and reassembled the unit with the remaining parts.

For fun, you might consider counting how many turns you have after you have it set where you would like.

Years ago, I had spent time communicating with Derek Bell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Bell_(racing_driver)), who had substantial experience modifying and servicing the UN1 transaxle. He had little anxiety about adjusting that nut, remarking that the nut should be tight enough to remove any play in the bearings and such that they roll rather than slide, creating flat spots. He also noted that these bearings seldom fail. He suggested, "[T]he best way is to tighten the nut until the diff is distinctly stiff to rotate, and stops immediately when you spin it, then back off until it frees up a bit." To me, that suggests to err on the side of too-tight versus too-loose.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Dave,

FWIW, I had two Renault transaxles side-by-side at one point and removed both differential adjustment nuts while counting the turns. Both came out in the realm of 8-1/4 turns before the nut disengaged from the casing.

While I don't work for Renault, I think it's unlikely that the factory workers assembled the transaxle with only the differential, adjusted the nut using a scale, and then disassembled and reassembled the unit with the remaining parts.

For fun, you might consider counting how many turns you have after you have it set where you would like.

Years ago, I had spent time communicating with Derek Bell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Bell_(racing_driver)), who had substantial experience modifying and servicing the UN1 transaxle. He had little anxiety about adjusting that nut, remarking that the nut should be tight enough to remove any play in the bearings and such that they roll rather than slide, creating flat spots. He also noted that these bearings seldom fail. He suggested, "[T]he best way is to tighten the nut until the diff is distinctly stiff to rotate, and stops immediately when you spin it, then back off until it frees up a bit." To me, that suggests to err on the side of too-tight versus too-loose.

Thanks. Mine was just a little more than 8 turns, maybe one notch more. I will adjust it for no side play of the output shafts. It's been running for many miles really loose so I would guess it's not to critical in the adjustment.

[Nicholas R]

Well I'm just going to adjust it so the side to side movement is gone or almost gone. It would have to be better than the 0.03 to 0.04" slop that it had. We never used any gauges when tapered front wheel bearing were adjusted when you repacked those bearings with new grease in the old days.


To me, that suggests to err on the side of too-tight versus too-loose.

I agree, it's definitely better to be tighter than looser. When the vehicle is under hard acceleration, the pinion gear and crown gear will try to separate from one another. When this happens, that transverse load is transferred to the case. Inevitably there will be some amount of flex in the case when this happens. The purpose of the pre-load is (as the name suggests) to preload the bearings so that when the case begins to flex outward, the outer races of the bearings continue to fully engage, and prevent the pinion and crown gear from separating. Essentially, the inward preload of the bearings has to be greater than the outward load imparted by the gears trying to separate (kind of like pre-stressed concrete being stressed with a large compressive load so that even if it is hit with a tensile load, it remains in compression, as long as the tensile load is less than the compressive pre-load).

[David T]

I agree, it's definitely better to be tighter than looser. When the vehicle is under hard acceleration, the pinion gear and crown gear will try to separate from one another. When this happens, that transverse load is transferred to the case. Inevitably there will be some amount of flex in the case when this happens. The purpose of the pre-load is (as the name suggests) to preload the bearings so that when the case begins to flex outward, the outer races of the bearings continue to fully engage, and prevent the pinion and crown gear from separating. Essentially, the inward preload of the bearings has to be greater than the outward load imparted by the gears trying to separate (kind of like pre-stressed concrete being stressed with a large compressive load so that even if it is hit with a tensile load, it remains in compression, as long as the tensile load is less than the compressive pre-load).

When adjusting tapered bearings it is difficult to say too tight is better than too loose or vice versa. Both are bad but for different reasons. You are also affecting the pinion-to-crownwheel adjustment. For the best longevity of the parts you are best served by doing it "by the book". Of course people take short-cuts and often get away with them. Do you feel lucky today? That is why you should not disturb that adjustment in the first place. Especially when it is not necessary. As for wheel bearings, the "standard" was to tighten till tight (or sometimes to a specific torque value) and then back off a fixed amount. After you were done there was sometimes a deflection spec. There was some play or looseness left to compensate for when it got hot and the parts expanded. Trying to set used bearings is not easy.

[Bitsyncmaster]

My order came in from PJ Grady the day I left for vacation. I was going to wait a day or two since the 8 hours of driving yesterday takes it out of me. But I decided to start installing the parts. I used the stock looking seal from Grady which was easy to press in since I could do it on my press with the adjusting ring removed. I could install the adjusting ring the full amount it was set at just with my fingers. I ended up setting it three notches tighter then it was set at. I think there still is a little side to side play but it's nothing like it was. I bolted the new axle in place and decided to take a break for the day.

I just have to torque the axle bolts (30 ft/lbs) and fill the transmission with a gallon of new oil.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I torqued all 12 axle bolts and still see quite a bit of side play on that transmission side flange. Maybe I have a bad bearing but I will run a few trips and see if things change.

Then I saw I forgot to put those metal plates that go under each of the two bolts on the axle. So I had to pull all the bolts again to install those. I'm thinking those metal plates do help with the lock washers since the bolts seemed to come out with less than 30 ft/lbs of torque.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Only have driven 10 miles but no sounds from the drivers rear side. But one thing not expected is I've backed up 5 times and have not had to double clutch to get it in reverse. Can't think what would have helped that. Maybe the new gear oil.

[DMC-81]

Only have driven 10 miles but no sounds from the drivers rear side. But one thing not expected is I've backed up 5 times and have not had to double clutch to get it in reverse. Can't think what would have helped that. Maybe the new gear oil.

Glad that you got it sorted. :thumbup:

On the double clutch fix, I would guess the new gear oil as well. When I had my C5 Corvette, at 40,000? miles or so, the gears started to get hard to engage. I looked in the manual, and sure enough, it was time to change the gear oil. Afterwards, it shifted as smooth as butter.

[David T]

Or you didn't have the right stuff in there or not enough. At least now it is OK and you didn't do any damage.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Or you didn't have the right stuff in there or not enough. At least now it is OK and you didn't do any damage.

Here is what I used this time.