Delorean Sequencer

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

The Company I work with, (AutoTrix.net) was approached by a DeLorean owner inquiring about a sequencer system. The system I have come up with, per his request, sequences four lights, excluding the backup, has three red marker lights and three brake lights. There are some modifications I have to make to the tail light circuit board and also use a LED flasher to make it work. My problem is I don't own a DeLorean and would like to find someone in the Tulsa, OK area that does own a DeLorean and would like to work with me for an installation and test. If anyone is interested you can leave a message on this board or email me at [email protected]. I'm going to try to post a video of the system, don't know if it will work. I'll have to reshoot the video in another format. Attach later.

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

You can see the video on youtube. Just search 'Delorean Sequencer'.

[davidc89]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcSxZ2nPA-s

I would be interested in buying one. I've always wanted something like this.

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

Once the R&D phase is over the tail light sequencer will be offered on the AutoTrix.net website. They have been selling the Mustang sequencer for several years.
By the way, Thank You for setting up the YouTube link! I tried several times and could not get the syntax correct. DS

[Lenny]

I was sitting behind a Mustang the other day and thought why can't my DeLorean do that? I'd be interested.

I've also been toying with the idea of changing to LED's

I have an original circuit board would this require a new board or modifications to the existing one?

[dn010]

You can keep the stock boards. The only thing to change would be the flasher unit if you're going to use LEDs for the signals. I am very satisfied with all of the exterior lights being LED.

[Lenny]

You can keep the stock boards. The only thing to change would be the flasher unit if you're going to use LEDs for the signals. I am very satisfied with all of the exterior lights being LED.

I understand for the LED's I can keep the current board. I was wondering about the sequencer. Will that need a new board or do you have to rewire the one you have?

I'm thinking each light will need wired into a relay to allow them to blink one after another. Or am I totally off base here.

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

Your existing circuit boards will have to be modified, which will be included in the price. I take out the three middle sockets and replace them with 1157 sockets so your marker lights and brake lights are the same. I can kit this for incandescent or LED but the incandescent have to have a heavier gauge wire. No matter what, the tail light circuit boards will have to be modified. These are controlled by a small pic on the control circuit board. Using MOSFET's not relays.

[dn010]

Sorry Lenny, I misunderstood what was being asked.


I understand for the LED's I can keep the current board. I was wondering about the sequencer. Will that need a new board or do you have to rewire the one you have?

I'm thinking each light will need wired into a relay to allow them to blink one after another. Or am I totally off base here.

[davidc89]

Can you post on here when these will be available? I will most likely forget to continually check the website.

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

Once these become available, I'll definately post it here.

[refugeefromcalif]

I Like this setup. :thumbup:
My first car was a 1970 T-Bird that had sequencing turn signals and I loved them. (Because very few vehicles have them).

George

[Lenny]

Can you give us an idea of a cost. I don't mean exact but 200, 500, 800 etc

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

Right now we're figuring in the $200 range for both sides. As I said earlier, your tail light circuit boards will have to be modified by us. Right now I'm using plugs on the control board but am thinking about just a direct wiring. I really need to find a DeLorean owner willing to test out this configuration. I need to take some measurements behind the tail lights and look at where I can hook up a 12v relay for power when the ignition is turned on. Delorean has a unique system for running their tail lights and I've had to adapt to their system. It's been fun for me and I've always loved the Delorean.

[davidc89]

I would be willing to help out. However, I don't live very close to your location.

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

44096Thanks, I appreciate that. It's a long way up there from here!

On another note...Anyone looking at switching to LED's needs to go to the 'West Coast Classic Cougars' web site and look at the comparison video they made for incandescent versus LED. Very interesting.

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

Here's a sneak preview of the installation for the sequencers. This will probably scare off most people. Once I get some measurement and find out where I can make the power hookups I can give a little more detail.

[Chris4099]

How much standby current do these PCBs use? If it's low enough, it would be much easier to just bypass the relay and hazard switch setup and wire them to constant 12v. Otherwise to get to the hazard switch output, a wire will need to be run from the rear fascia all the way to the center console. The switch wiring isn't easy to access either. Looking at the wiring circuit, the easiest place to get a signal would be the light green/pink wire at the flasher relay near the steering column.

Regardless, accessing an accessory or constant 12v power will require running wiring from the rear fascia to the engine bulkhead connector. Not complex, but if you can make it just a single constant 12v wire, that will make it much easier to install.

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

I have not measured the standby current, but I will. I'm guessing it would be in the milliamp range or maybe less. I'll measure it when I get home later tonight and answer back. It will probably be late though.

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

Thank You for letting me know about this! Without having a car to look at and understand it's hard to make the right decisions. It would be easy to drop the switch and relay altogether. I welcome feedback from everyone! It will only help to get this on the market sooner.

[Chris4099]

Now that I think about it, does the red wire power just the logic controller or does it power the lights as well? If just the logic controller, then you can run it to just the wire at the light green/pink wire as it will be live with the hazards and/or ignition. Wiring should be able to support the bulb load as well assuming they are LEDs (I would be concerned with incandescent load on that circuit).

If the standby load is just a few ma total, then maybe offer an easier option to wire directly into a constant 12v in the engine compartment. Just have a note that if the car is not driven for a few weeks or more, a battery cutoff or battery tender charger is required. If they don't have the cutoff switch and run incandescent (assuming the bulb load is on the red wire), then have them use that original wiring setup.

So ya, lots of options. :)

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

Chris,
I not only checked the current draw at idle, but did a incandescent vs LED current comparison with both tail lights and control boards connected. Attached are the results. But to answer the first question, at idle the two control boards draw 12.8mA together. The relay and switch could probably be eliminated as long as the car was not in storage. 44170

[Bitsyncmaster]

Chris,
I not only checked the current draw at idle, but did a incandescent vs LED current comparison with both tail lights and control boards connected. Attached are the results. But to answer the first question, at idle the two control boards draw 12.8mA together. The relay and switch could probably be eliminated as long as the car was not in storage. 44170

You would not want to leave that 12.8 ma. load on for to long. OEM door lock unit draws about 12 ma. OEM clock draws about 5 ma. If you have a clock in your radio it will draw some current also.

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

That's why the relay and bypass switch were included in the original design. The backup lights are not controlled by my circuit but all the other lights are. The power for everything else comes through the single red wire coming from the battery relay. That was the reason for the current testing. To determine what gauge of wire was needed coming from the battery. My problem is that I have no idea what kind of length is needed. That will make the final determination in wire size. It will be fused regardless.

[content22207_2]

Everyone is aware that light reflection and diffusion through the center lens is totally different than the lenses on either side of it?

When I did my tail light mod I lined the center housing with chrome tape and added a rear curved reflector to emulate parabolic reflectors of the adjacent lenses. I also replaced the stepped diffuser with a combination of fluorescent light diffuser and square pattern tail light repair kit to emulate diffuser pattern of the adjacent lenses:

44172 44173

44174

Bill Robertson
#5939

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

Thank You for your input. This mod would definately make the light sequencer look 100% better. From your pictures it looks like a relatively easy fix.

[content22207_2]

My mod is a little bit different in that it illuminates all three lenses at the same time, which really emphasizes differences between them. Perhaps in sequence it wouldn't be as noticeable. Has anybody tried it to see?

Bill Robertson
#5939

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

Here's a grainy picture of my test setup for the amp load test for the LED portion of the test. It's a mess but it works!44182

[content22207_2]

You really need to try it in the housings.

My experience was Position 3 didn't look anything like Positions 2 and 4.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

You really need to try it in the housings.

My experience was Position 3 didn't look anything like Positions 2 and 4.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Where is the best place to buy a used housing. I would like to get one to experiment with and come up with the best solution. Thanks DS

[Chris4099]

Chris,
I not only checked the current draw at idle, but did a incandescent vs LED current comparison with both tail lights and control boards connected. Attached are the results. But to answer the first question, at idle the two control boards draw 12.8mA together. The relay and switch could probably be eliminated as long as the car was not in storage. 44170

Hmm, that's a really high standby current and almost doubles what a stock D already uses. So I would not recommend most owners connect it directly to a constant 12v source unless they use a battery cutoff switch all the time. Also, drawing nearly 16 amps is a lot of power to be pulling if we wire it directly to the blinker relay circuit. It does use either of two 20 amp fuses, but that power is going through the hazard switch and if it's anything like the original headlight switch, could have melting issues with that kind of current load! So wiring it to the blinker relay should only be done when using LEDs.

So that leaves us with users that insist on incandescent bulbs and not having a battery cutoff switch. Then a reply to acc, constant 12v and the blinker relay seems to be the only solution.

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

Hmm, that's a really high standby current and almost doubles what a stock D already uses. So I would not recommend most owners connect it directly to a constant 12v source unless they use a battery cutoff switch all the time. Also, drawing nearly 16 amps is a lot of power to be pulling if we wire it directly to the blinker relay circuit. It does use either of two 20 amp fuses, but that power is going through the hazard switch and if it's anything like the original headlight switch, could have melting issues with that kind of current load! So wiring it to the blinker relay should only be done when using LEDs.

So that leaves us with users that insist on incandescent bulbs and not having a battery cutoff switch. Then a reply to acc, constant 12v and the blinker relay seems to be the only solution.

The 12V supply has to come directly from the battery and not any other circuit and would be fused at 20A. The relay coil only draws 120 to 130mA and could be hooked into an auxiliary circuit without much effect. I know the switch is a pain but necessary with this circuit. I'm still in the testing stage at any rate.
Thanks for the feedback! I need all the help I can get!

[content22207_2]

A user on Steve's forum is supposed to be working on LED tail light housings (not LED bulbs in OEM housings -- entirely new housings with flat panel LED arrays). Why not liaison with him to provide sequencer circuitry for his housings. That would solve not only the power issue, but also the center diffuser issue.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

As soon as I get a tail light assembly I will be making some new video's showing the sequencer in daylight with both incandescent and LED bulb's and a nighttime version with both types of bulbs. This circuit will work with either bulb.

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

Here's the first video of the sequencer using incandescent bubs during daytime.

https://youtu.be/1kNHaCYPsvQ
https://youtu.be/1kNHaCYPsvQ

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

Changed to LED bulbs and filmed. Center reflector was removed. Modified center with some of my taillight from my 94 Chevy pickup.
https://youtu.be/SIF_qrw2JkI https://youtu.be/SIF_qrw2JkI

[content22207_2]

Center reflector was removed. Modified center with some of my taillight from my 94 Chevy pickup.

I wonder if suitable material (red, waffle pattern, diffusion) is available somewhere so ready cut pieces could be provided for owners to drop in their own taillight housings? Like you I made my own diffusers (Post #25). Work fine but definitely not plug & play. If drop in diffusers could be provided along with the sequenced boards I bet demand for this project would be through the roof. Not everyone wants to make their own diffusers.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

I wonder if suitable material (red, waffle pattern, diffusion) is available somewhere so ready cut pieces could be provided for owners to drop in their own taillight housings? Like you I made my own diffusers (Post #25). Work fine but definitely not plug & play. If drop in diffusers could be provided along with the sequenced boards I bet demand for this project would be through the roof. Not everyone wants to make their own diffusers.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Bill,
I've looked all over and have yet to find a suitable replacement that matches the existing pattern. Also, I used one of my old headlights, (same 94 Chevy pickup),456974569845699 to make the reflector that matches pretty well with the other taillight reflectors. Here are a few pics.

[content22207_2]

Did you try the stock diffuser? I didn't like the way it looked with the adjacent lenses, but others might feel differently.

Parabolic reflector can be emulated with a piece of curvable plastic lined with a reflective material (I used chrome tape from the parts house). Not 100% identical to the other lenses, but close enough. Making a bunch of those for plug & play kits shouldn't be difficult.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

Did you try the stock diffuser? I didn't like the way it looked with the adjacent lenses, but others might feel differently.

Parabolic reflector can be emulated with a piece of curvable plastic lined with a reflective material (I used chrome tape from the parts house). Not 100% identical to the other lenses, but close enough. Making a bunch of those for plug & play kits shouldn't be difficult.

Bill Robertson
#5939

The tail light that I bought from Delorean Parts North West did not include the factory reflector/diffuser. I would have taken it out anyway since it would not have matched the lights on either side.
My first idea for a reflector was to buy a piece of aluminum from Hobby Lobby in their Models section. Next, I cut a piece out of an aluminum pontoon that I had and was going to use it since it was already formed. But when I was changing lights on my old truck I could see that this would work even better. Of course it's not something for mass production.
DS4592545924

[content22207_2]

Of course it's not something for mass production.

Dunno -- somebody with 3D printing skills might be able to scan your prototype and crank them out. Highly reflective finish would be difficult to duplicate with paint, but traditional silvers or perhaps even white might work. Definitely worth experimenting if you can get your hands on some copies. Parabolic shape is spot on.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

Dunno -- somebody with 3D printing skills might be able to scan your prototype and crank them out. Highly reflective finish would be difficult to duplicate with paint, but traditional silvers or perhaps even white might work. Definitely worth experimenting if you can get your hands on some copies. Parabolic shape is spot on.

Bill Robertson
#5939

The 3D printer is a great idea! You could get exact fit duplicates and I would think there would be a method to silver the inside. My headlight that I used was plastic.

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

AutoTrix.net will not be offering the Delorean Sequencer for sale on their website for now. Since they would have to have tail light circuit boards manufactured to make it a true plug n play system they don't think the market is large enough to support the initial production costs. I may sell control boards, installation instructions, and a parts list with vendor names for individuals that want to install them on their own. The cost will probably be $75 for each control pcb. These will come with plug wires and the circuit which is sealed in thermally conductive epoxy. I have not yet installed and tested these for any length of time to date so any sales will be pending on future testing. Here's a copy of an initial installation and some of the parts needed to complete. I'll post any updates in the future here. DS459544595345952

[DMC5180]

I'm a bit late to the party here, but after reading back through the entire thread something stands out that I am curious about. Why is everyone concerned about standby current? Does this module require a Live at all times "memory" standby current? As I see it, the turn signals don't work unless the the key is ON anyway. A small number of cars have LIVE brake lights but MOST were configured so the key has to be ON for the brake lights to work. Why wouldn't a Key Switchable 12V source work just fine and therefore no need to worry about standby current battery drain?

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

I'm a bit late to the party here, but after reading back through the entire thread something stands out that I am curious about. Why is everyone concerned about standby current? Does this module require a Live at all times "memory" standby current? As I see it, the turn signals don't work unless the the key is ON anyway. A small number of cars have LIVE brake lights but MOST were configured so the key has to be ON for the brake lights to work. Why wouldn't a Key Switchable 12V source work just fine and therefore no need to worry about standby current battery drain?

To answer your second question, no. Once the chip is programmed it will retain it's program regardless of power on or off. From what I can gather, the people that are concerned with the power drain don't think it's a good idea to add any additional drain on the battery. I've been informed that the radio and door locks are a small battery drain while the car is turned off. This was why I added the two relays in the power circuit so the current draw from the modules would be zero when the car is off. DS

[DMC5180]

To answer your second question, no. Once the chip is programmed it will retain it's program regardless of power on or off. From what I can gather, the people that are concerned with the power drain don't think it's a good idea to add any additional drain on the battery. I've been informed that the radio and door locks are a small battery drain while the car is turned off. This was why I added the two relays in the power circuit so the current draw from the modules would be zero when the car is off. DS

Would a fused Key switchable FEED circuit work so that you don't need the relays?

Standby current draws are a concern when the car is not used frequently (driven at least once a week) they will drain the battery in 2-3 wks time if you don't use a battery disconnect switch.

The manual transmission Deloreans have an unused key switched fuse #13 (10 amp) live feed available at the RED bulkhead connector in the engine compartment. Technically, all that would be needed is to to add the opposite side wire with terminal to the mating connector. Automatic transmission cars use this feed source for the transmission governor. It would not be available to those owners unless you could tap the wire assuming very low current draw requirements.

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

Would a fused Key switchable FEED circuit work so that you don't need the relays?

Standby current draws are a concern when the car is not used frequently (driven at least once a week) they will drain the battery in 2-3 wks time if you don't use a battery disconnect switch.

The manual transmission Deloreans have an unused key switched fuse #13 (10 amp) live feed available at the RED bulkhead connector in the engine compartment. Technically, all that would be needed is to to add the opposite side wire with terminal to the mating connector. Automatic transmission cars use this feed source for the transmission governor. It would not be available to those owners unless you could tap the wire assuming very low current draw requirements.

That would work , (fuse #13), only if you used LED lamps in the tail lights because the incandescent lamps will exceed 10 amps under certain conditions. After completing my circuit design I hooked up two Delorean tail light circuit boards and ran current tests using both incandescents and LED to compare the current draw during operation. Attached is the results of my tests. DS46149

[DMC5180]

That would work , (fuse #13), only if you used LED lamps in the tail lights because the incandescent lamps will exceed 10 amps under certain conditions. After completing my circuit design I hooked up two Delorean tail light circuit boards and ran current tests using both incandescents and LED to compare the current draw during operation. Attached is the results of my tests. DS46149

I forgot you were feeding power to the bright side of the 1157 type bulbs/LEDS. would it have to support 8 bulbs if the Hazards are ON? I was thinking the illumination power came from the Signal indicator. I get it now, the signal just operates the sequencer function. Btw, I like your ingenious use a trailer connector. Were you thinking of of tying back up light into the turn sequence? I would think that should remain stock.

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

I forgot you were feeding power to the bright side of the 1157 type bulbs/LEDS. would it have to support 8 bulbs if the Hazards are ON? I was thinking the illumination power came from the Signal indicator. I get it now, the signal just operates the sequencer function. Btw, I like your ingenious use a trailer connector. Were you thinking of of tying back up light into the turn sequence? I would think that should remain stock.

(Sorry for the late answer, I've been out trying to clean up my garage)
First, it does illuminate all 8 bulbs when the hazards are on but they sequence out on each side so all 8 bulbs are only on briefly. Yes, I only use the existing circuit (plug) to signal my processor, that's why I have a separate power circuit. Also, the back up light is not controlled or connected at all to my circuit. The trailer connectors are a lot cheaper than the alternative and will still do a good job staying dry. DS

[DeepSpace Cowboy]

Here is my original Drawing for installation of the sequencer module with all connections made to the tail light circuit board.46151

[DavidProehl]

FYI for those on this thread: A new thread was started with these kits for sale: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?17731-DeLorean-Taillight-Sequencer-Kits