Silver or Gray?

[steve6864]

Something to look for during the upcoming show. I consider my D to be very Silver in color. Not bragging or anything,but,against other cars at shows and tech events etc.it seems some are more gray or maybe the right term might be more dull. Mine is never garaged,nor do I use anything special to clean it. I do go over the grain from time to time,but,does anyone know if there were different grades or sources for the Stainless that might account for the difference? Has anyone else noticed the difference? I`ll be looking in a couple of weeks. See you in Illinois!

[louielouie2000]

To the best of my knowledge, the stainless on all DeLoreans was provided by British Steel. All of the cars have aged differently, though. Some have become fairly oxidized and dull- probably never having seen a Scotch Brite pad or rebrushing. Others have a goldish-brown sheen due to having dirt in their grains. Some cars have been rebrushed and have a very bright pop to them. Others yet have been polished with various products which changes their sheen. Some cars have been garaged and covered since new; others have been left out in the elements for decades. Others have been hit & repaired with varying results. There are scores of reasons why no two DeLoreans really have the same look to their panels.

[DMC-81]

I agree that the difference is linked to re-brushing. When you re-brush the stainless, my understanding is that it takes off some of the chromium oxide (gray) and becomes more silver. Over time, the oxide forms again ( a natural process) and the panel takes on a more gray hue.

Heres a good document that explains the process..

http://www.aperam.com/uploads/stainlesseurope/Brochures/Leaflet%20corrosion_Eng_374Ko.pdf

[Nicholas R]

In some rare instances you'll see cars that have normal grain but are simply shinier than others, because of the specific panels used. As usual the 304 stainless for the panels would come to the factory in large sheet metal rolls. 304 stainless cannot be hardened through heating and cooling, however it's very susceptible to work hardening as the material is stressed and strained. Because of this, the sheet metal at the very center of the roll would get very work hardened during the tight rolling and then unrolling process. The panel being so much harder would make it a lot more difficult to grain deeply, and therefore wouldn't dull out as much during the gaining. I remember reading that at the factory, these panels would be noticeable next to a normal panel, so they would be set to the side until they had a full set of panels/doors/hood to make a whole car, and then it would be assembled.

Ken Koncelik's concourse car (Gigawatt) is an example of one of these cars. It has always been quite a bit more shiny than any car around it, even after using the standard Wolfhead flap wheel. His car was actually purchased from Charlie DeLorean (John's brother) who kept it at his Cadillac Dealership in Michigan. According to Ken, Charlie liked the shinier look, and that was part of the reason why he had that specific car.

Ken has hosted Chris N. to his shop a couple times and I remember Ken asking Chris to try to dull the SS out a little (because he was getting dinged during concourse judging). I believe Chris did have some success in the end (given his talent with stainless), but even still the car is very shiny, especially when compared to other cars around it.

[Jonathan]

Could part of the "silver vs gray" effect be from cars that have had certain cleaning chemicals used on them and those that haven't?

From time to time I have seen cars together and every so often one of them looks "darker". Not sure if that is the best word to try and describe it. I mean darker like almost looking wet. Like it looks slick where I would think it was from using some kind of metal polish or cleaner.

Those panels that look brilliantly bright or shining silver to me have no aspect of this sort of oily or deep, darkened smooth look. Almost like they are still naturally bright or clean looking somehow.

...I think I might have to get a Thesaurus out to find a better word or two for that, lol.

[louielouie2000]

In some rare instances you'll see cars that have normal grain but are simply shinier than others, because of the specific panels used. As usual the 304 stainless for the panels would come to the factory in large sheet metal rolls. 304 stainless cannot be hardened through heating and cooling, however it's very susceptible to work hardening as the material is stressed and strained. Because of this, the sheet metal at the very center of the roll would get very work hardened during the tight rolling and then unrolling process. The panel being so much harder would make it a lot more difficult to grain deeply, and therefore wouldn't dull out as much during the gaining. I remember reading that at the factory, these panels would be noticeable next to a normal panel, so they would be set to the side until they had a full set of panels/doors/hood to make a whole car, and then it would be assembled.

Ken Koncelik's concourse car (Gigawatt) is an example of one of these cars. It has always been quite a bit more shiny than any car around it, even after using the standard Wolfhead flap wheel. His car was actually purchased from Charlie DeLorean (John's brother) who kept it at his Cadillac Dealership in Michigan. According to Ken, Charlie liked the shinier look, and that was part of the reason why he had that specific car.

Ken has hosted Chris N. to his shop a couple times and I remember Ken asking Chris to try to dull the SS out a little (because he was getting dinged during concourse judging). I believe Chris did have some success in the end (given his talent with stainless), but even still the car is very shiny, especially when compared to other cars around it.

Fascinating stuff. I've been around these cars for the better part of 2 decades, and I'm still learning new factoids on a regular basis. Thanks for sharing!


Could part of the "silver vs gray" effect be from cars that have had certain cleaning chemicals used on them and those that haven't?

From time to time I have seen cars together and every so often one of them looks "darker". Not sure if that is the best word to try and describe it. I mean darker like almost looking wet. Like it looks slick where I would think it was from using some kind of metal polish or cleaner.

Those panels that look brilliantly bright or shining silver to me have no aspect of this sort of oily or deep, darkened smooth look. Almost like they are still naturally bright or clean looking somehow.

...I think I might have to get a Thesaurus out to find a better word or two for that, lol.

Yes. My second DeLorean was polished and treated with some sort of RV (ie: Airstream) polish & sealant by a previous owner that gave the car a wet look, which also made the stainless appear darker. I've long ago forgotten the name of the product used- maybe Darren Decker still remembers?

[dmcjohn]

In some rare instances you'll see cars that have normal grain but are simply shinier than others, because of the specific panels used. As usual the 304 stainless for the panels would come to the factory in large sheet metal rolls. 304 stainless cannot be hardened through heating and cooling, however it's very susceptible to work hardening as the material is stressed and strained. Because of this, the sheet metal at the very center of the roll would get very work hardened during the tight rolling and then unrolling process. The panel being so much harder would make it a lot more difficult to grain deeply, and therefore wouldn't dull out as much during the gaining. I remember reading that at the factory, these panels would be noticeable next to a normal panel, so they would be set to the side until they had a full set of panels/doors/hood to make a whole car, and then it would be assembled.

I don't think this is correct. Can you remember where you read this? The grain was actually applied to the stainless by British Steel (along with a dry lubricant to facilitate pressing) before being delivered to Lapple in Co. Carlow, Ireland, where the panels were then pressed.

In other words, the grain was already present on the steel before the panel was pressed. Additionally, I felt that the stainless was actually delivered in sheets rather than rolls, but I'd have to check that point with Michael O'Leary to confirm.

Michael was the press shop manager at the time with Lapple - here is an interview I did with him a few years ago:

http://www.delorean.ie/lapple.html

Regards,
John

[Iznodmad]

Fascinating stuff. I've been around these cars for the better part of 2 decades, and I'm still learning new factoids on a regular basis. Thanks for sharing!



Yes. My second DeLorean was polished and treated with some sort of RV (ie: Airstream) polish & sealant by a previous owner that gave the car a wet look, which also made the stainless appear darker. I've long ago forgotten the name of the product used- maybe Darren Decker still remembers?

Yeah, I remember. I still have some. It is called Walburnize (sp?). Sorta like a "wax" for stainless that reduces the oxidation rate. Very cumbersome to use, but the effects are amazing and seem to last a long time.

[Nicholas R]

I don't think this is correct. Can you remember where you read this? The grain was actually applied to the stainless by British Steel (along with a dry lubricant to facilitate pressing) before being delivered to Lapple in Co. Carlow, Ireland, where the panels were then pressed.

In other words, the grain was already present on the steel before the panel was pressed. Additionally, I felt that the stainless was actually delivered in sheets rather than rolls, but I'd have to check that point with Michael O'Leary to confirm.

Michael was the press shop manager at the time with Lapple - here is an interview I did with him a few years ago:

http://www.delorean.ie/lapple.html

Regards,
John

By all means, if you have any additional information, I would love to hear it. I believe the first time I remember this coming up was for a possible discussion topic as Ken was getting factory and QAC workers for the 2008 DCS (as I was helping Ken plan the show).

I certainly will not claim to be an expert at knowing at what point the stainless steel was unrolled. I'm sure it's still came out of the steel mill in rolls but after that, who knows; It could be that I am mistaken in saying that it was unrolled at the factory, and was rather unrolled at British Steel.

Also, though the panels were grained and then pressed, the grain was still finished by hand at the factory correct?

[dmcjohn]

I could also be wrong - but I think only minor finishing work was done at the factory to remove any blemishes and damage from assembly - not a full regrain on each car. I'll see if I can find out how the stainless was delivered to Carlow.

[Metastophales]

To the best of my knowledge, the stainless on all DeLoreans was provided by British Steel. All of the cars have aged differently, though. Some have become fairly oxidized and dull- probably never having seen a Scotch Brite pad or rebrushing. Others have a goldish-brown sheen due to having dirt in their grains. Some cars have been rebrushed and have a very bright pop to them. Others yet have been polished with various products which changes their sheen. Some cars have been garaged and covered since new; others have been left out in the elements for decades. Others have been hit & repaired with varying results. There are scores of reasons why no two DeLoreans really have the same look to their panels.

I am new to this group and new as a DeLorean owner. What is the best way to get the grains clean etc. I am hoping to have my car end of next week and want to start detailing it out so that it looks good? Any help would be very greatly appreciated. Thank you

[David T]

What you do to the exterior is all up to you and the condition you get the car in. If the panels are not all dinged up you can make the car look like new. Scratches are removed with 80# sandpaper and then you go over it with a blending pad (Scotch Brite) to get the grain even and all in one direction. There are plenty of threads and FAQ's about how to regrain the panels. It can all be done by hand but there are power tools you can use to make the job go faster once you get good at handling them.

[cpistocco]

I always thought that the parts were grained after they were pressed, but before assembly.

[bfloyd]

From time to time I have seen cars together and every so often one of them looks "darker". Not sure if that is the best word to try and describe it. I mean darker like almost looking wet. Like it looks slick where I would think it was from using some kind of metal polish or cleaner.

When I first got my car, I washed it thoroughly, took a "brown" Scotchbrite pad to it, wiped it down and it looked bright and raw. It looked really good. I thought I'd make it look better by using a stainless steel polish that we use at the theatre to shine the stainless steel kitchen equipment and the backsplash behind the cook line in the kitchen. It's a product called "Sheila Shine". It makes the kitchen equipment look great, but when I sprayed it on my car and wiped it down, it gave my car a darker dull wet look. Took forever to get that stuff off the car.