3.0 Engine Swap

[m_w]

I don't have any questions, I've just been having some good luck with my 3.0L premier swap and wanted to share. A number of forum members helped me out with this in the Fall/Winter 2014. Thanks to all those guys. :bigclap: Its been about a year and a half and 1000 miles on it. Fun Times :)

44636

[louielouie2000]

A 3.0 with a DeLorean intake manifold and K-Jet? Interesting combo!

[m_w]

A 3.0 with a DeLorean intake manifold and K-Jet? Interesting combo!

Thanks! I think the only way to tell it's a 3.0 from that picture is the oil dipstick tube. It's different than the stock 2.8 one.

[vwdmc16]

What kind of ignition system did you go with?

[m_w]

What kind of ignition system did you go with?

The entire ignition system is stock 2.8 stuff.

[nkemp]

Can you show/tell how you adapted the 2.8 intake to the 3.0? Although the 3.0 intake is supposedly better I like retaining the original look.

[m_w]

Can you show/tell how you adapted the 2.8 intake to the 3.0? Although the 3.0 intake is supposedly better I like retaining the original look.

I used the 2.8 heads on the 3.0 block. Which means all of the intake stuff fit without too much hassle.

[nkemp]

Thanks, that makes sense.

I've seen 2.8 Intake Manifolds on 3.0 heads but they had tubular spacers. Didn't look OEM. I was thinking an aluminum spacer machined as needed would look more OEM. But I think it needs to be quite thick.

[dodint]

Apologies if it's common knowledge, but what is the power bump you get from going from the 2.8 to the 3.0? My assumption is the incremental gain would make swapping for swapping's sake prohibitive, but maybe it's a good candidate if your 2.8 is already gone?

[DMCVegas]

I used the 2.8 heads on the 3.0 block. Which means all of the intake stuff fit without too much hassle.

So you've got the B28F odd-fire cams and crank shaft then.

[m_w]

To answer a few questions:

nkemp: As far as I know everything you said is correct, and I believe the spacers would need to be 3/4"

dodint: given the combination I used, there is no real power bump. My original 2.8 block was not usable. During dyno testing and tuning, it put out 100 HP or so at the wheels, which is near stock numbers for an automatic, I believe.

DMCVegas: yes I'm using the odd fire crank and cams.

[dodint]

Interesting. Thanks.

[JohnLane]

Seems like if one is going to the effort of using the three liter block and liners....
That you want all to look stock...
The sensible build would be:

Three liter block with it's 93mm bore size, 37mm oil pump.
Odd firing heads... Three liter cams, rocker arms in odd firing heads.
Now we have more displacement, oil volume, even firing pulses for a smooth idle....
Modest bump in static compression ratio with more displacement.
Hydraulic lash adjusters + increased oil volume FTW.

Just need to modify camshaft for distributor drive gear... Replace odd-firing trigger in distributor and distributor cap for even-firing cap. Also have to remove some material inside the cam covers to clear rocker arms.

Easy-peasy. Done this very build several times. Sweet runner.

[DMCVegas]

The 3.0L cam doesn't have the provision for a distributor. I've seen that mod done once before, but no instructions.

Also, what about an adapter & spacer for the earlier 3.0L PRV with the distributor mounted on the opposite cylinder head to allow for adjustment of timing so one could utilize the '88-'90 distributor parts and system?

[m_w]

Seems like if one is going to the effort of using the three liter block and liners....
That you want all to look stock...
The sensible build would be:

Three liter block with it's 93mm bore size, 37mm oil pump.
Odd firing heads... Three liter cams, rocker arms in odd firing heads.
Now we have more displacement, oil volume, even firing pulses for a smooth idle....
Modest bump in static compression ratio with more displacement.
Hydraulic lash adjusters + increased oil volume FTW.

Just need to modify camshaft for distributor drive gear... Replace odd-firing trigger in distributor and distributor cap for even-firing cap. Also have to remove some material inside the cam covers to clear rocker arms.

Easy-peasy. Done this very build several times. Sweet runner.

A plan similar to that was in the running, but having to piece together a distributor from a combo of 2.8 parts and the cap from something like a 70s BMW made me shy away. Neat to hear you were able to get that to work. Also wasn't totally sold on the cam grind.

[Farrar]

One owner that I know of is working on a different way of getting mechanical spark timing/advance on the 3.0L engine that doesn't involve cutting teeth into the LH camshaft. I thought I had seen a picture of a mockup, but I couldn't find it. If it works, it will be installed on my 3.0L engine and I will get photos then if anyone's interested.

m_w, that engine compartment of yours looks great. I'm glad you have had such success. Looks like a very clean install! :)

[content22207_2]

Early 3.0 with distributed spark has no way of triggering an ignition module (there's nothing inside the distributor but a rotor -- no way of telling where that rotor is relative to camshaft rotation). 3.0 used a flywheel triggered camshaft position sensor, which doesn't transfer over to our transmission (there's no place to mount a sensor). Typical alternative is a missing tooth gear welded to the crankshaft pulley and a sensor mounted to the timing chain cover, which doesn't generate a signal compatible with inductive ignition modules (3.0 users typically use distributorless ignition as part of an EFI package).

My intention on Farrar's engine is to mount a traditional distributor (Ford 300) to the passenger valve cover and turn it with a 90 degree bevel gear mounted in place of the 3.0 distributor. Gear is already mounted to the engine (involved making a jig to drill a hole in the gear for the camshaft locator dowel -- you can't just bolt a gear to the engine):

44711 44712

All I still need to do is make the valve cover bracket and put a gear on the distributor shaft. I will also make a little box to fit around the gears, held in place with the old 3.0 distributor bolts, to hold some axle grease (can't use gear oil because there won't be a lip seal around the engine gear -- just a hole for it to fit through).

Another obstacle for 3.0 conversions is the motor mounts. Typical solution is to swap a DeLorean lower engine casting and use DeLorean mounts. That involves unbolting the main bearings (lower engine casting holds the main bearings). I've been advised that it is very difficult to get a perfectly flush mating surface for the timing chain cover, and that it is difficult to prevent oil leaks with the main engine casting (no gasket -- the castings are glued together). Rather than open that can of worms I am going to make a pair of bolt on engine cradle adapters for the 3.0 motor mounts identical to my own (my own adapters were originally intended to be temporary, in 2004 -- more than a decade later I've painted them gray and accepted that they are now a permanent fixture on the car). Note that 3.0 motor mount bosses can not use DeLorean motor mounts -- they are a totally different angle (DeLorean motor mounts compensate with a big protrusion inside the motor mount that pushes the mount downwards. If you combine that protrusion with a 3.0 boss you end up with a motor mount pointed too horizontally to match the angle of a DeLorean engine cradle). And of course 3.0 motor mount bosses are totally in the wrong place -- they are basically in the center of the engine, whereas DeLorean motor mount bosses are offset towards the rear -- that's why the cradle needs to be adapted rearward:

44713

44714 44715 44716

I drew life size templates to test fit Farrar's existing 2.8 intake manifold on 3.0 heads. By my calculation the adapter plates need to be 5/16" thick. I've bought some 5/16 aluminum stock to make a pair of adapters but haven't had a chance to machine them yet. I will make them the same way I make my intake manifold flanges. Obviously they will be shaped slightly differently to fit around the 3.0 spark plugs (while 3.0 intake ports were moved higher on the heads, spark plugs were left in the same place):

44717

I will post pictures when work commences towards the end of the summer. Right now everything is on hold. It's too hot anyway.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[content22207_2]

I drew life size templates to test fit Farrar's existing 2.8 intake manifold on 3.0 heads.

Kind of hard to see the lines in this pic. Templates are 100% life size (same width as real life 2.8 intake manifold and 3.0 intake valley). I positioned the manifold template over the intake valley template so the intake runners lined up with the 3.0 intake ports, then measured the gap. As soon as I machine the aluminum stock I will know if my calculations in fact were correct.

44718

Bill Robertson
#5939