Braided hose fire warning !!

[Spittybug]

:flamed:This is under the EFI section because a number of us used this hose in our setups, but everyone should be aware of it.

I'm still double checking for my old invoices to confirm the vendor, but a few of us bought stainless steel braided fuel hoses to connect up our fuel rails in our EFI setups. (Not Delorean specific vendors). These were rated at >1000 psi, so there shouldn't be a problem whatsoever.

The first time (6 months ago?) I noticed a pin hole spraying gas from my hose going from the filter to the first rail. I assumed a stray SS strand must have punctured it. I replaced it with another length I had. Yesterday I smelled gas upon returning home. My 6" section that connects my two fuel rails was wet. I checked the fittings for tightness and then repressurized. HOLY CRAP, half a dozen tiny jets of gas coming from it along its length and from all directions! MASSIVE failure of the rubber or something. This hose doesn't sit on any hot parts or move at all. It's only a couple of years old.

While I've emailed the owners locally that I know to have these hoses, this warning is for everyone that may have such hoses.

I was lucky.

[Bitsyncmaster]

You need to find the vendor and try to get a data sheet on the hose. 1000 PSI rated on a little rubber hose?

[dn010]

The EFI fuel hose I use is rated 900PSI burst (whether that is true or not, who knows?) so 1000PSI doesn't seem that unlikely. I've been using it for years on many different vehicles with crimp style (requires crimp tool) fuel line clamps with 0 issues. Regular ugly rubber fuel hoses yes, but they're tried & true to me, provided you aren't routing them next to sharp edges, etc.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C1BYFC/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[toyotafreak88]

I don't even have a DeLorean yet but that's scary. find the vendor yet?

Almost sounds like the hose wasn't rated for the high pressure injection system?:eek1:

Cut the braiding off one and see if the hose underneath has PSI ratings?

[Spittybug]

The vendor has been very responsive to the issue and has, without hesitation, sent out replacement. As they are the wholesaler and not the manufacturer of the hose, I really couldn't have asked for a better resolution. They assured me that they have sold 'miles' of this hose without incident, that it indeed is rated for the stated very high pressures and that the pictures I sent seemed to confirm my position. They did what they could to keep me happy.

Now, as far as the fact that the hoses actually developed leaks....that's disconcerting. In looking down the inside of one I was able to see thin lines on the inside wall as if it had dried out and cracked. It is plausible that I had a bad run and since I cut all of my pieces from the same batch, that would explain why I had two separate failures. While I'm certainly more wary now, I don't see how I can do anything other than what I'm doing which is to replace the 4 lengths with the new stuff coming and simply remain vigilant for the future.

The warning stands for ANY fuel hoses or fittings; check them regularly and never dismiss any fuel smell as a fluke.

[Drive Stainless]

While I'm certainly more wary now, I don't see how I can do anything other than what I'm doing which is to replace the 4 lengths with the new stuff coming and simply remain vigilant for the future.

The warning stands for ANY fuel hoses or fittings; check them regularly and never dismiss any fuel smell as a fluke.


Careful. You're going to make a critical decision to re-use a type of hose that has already shown propensity to fail after just a few years? Are you speculating that you had a "bad run", or did the vendor volunteer this information?

The reasonable choice would be to switch to another brand or type of hose.

When your passenger with 3rd degree burns dies and his/her family sues you, a jury may not look favorably on the fact that you had prior knowledge that this hose would fail and yet substituted the same part a second time. If you knew there was a risk this hose would fail prematurely and disregarded it, which fits the facts here unless you have some reason to know with certainty that your hose fell within a bad batch, it could mean a charge of involuntary manslaughter under a mens rea of recklessness.

[content22207_2]

There have been plenty of DeLorean immolating themselves, but has anyone been injured in the process?

Watch some real world car fires on YouTube. They are very different from Hollywood special effects.

Takes a surprisingly long time for an engine compartment fire to breach the passenger compartment (several minutes).

Cold comfort when your engine (and the back half of the car) is toast, but at least you live to tell the tale.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[dn010]

I'm sorry but I agree with Matt. Once failure, time to pick a different brand.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[content22207_2]

I wasn't disagreeing about the hose (personally I think any fuel line over 6 PSI is madness...), only that a passenger is likely to get injured/killed if/when it sets the engine on fire.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Drive Stainless]

Watch some real world car fires on YouTube.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Okay, I did:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbtL7darPV0

[content22207_2]

This is typical:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czyaZmYz9FQ

Particularly note what "explodes" -- battery and the tires. My best friend is a fire fighter of 25 years in the DC area, who has put out everything from Metro buses to Metro subway trains, and not a single one of them has exploded like the movies.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Spittybug]

Aren't you all a cheery bunch.

[content22207_2]

By the time the fire department arrives it's too late.

Carry a fire extinguisher and make sure it's fully charged. Damage will be minimalized and localized.

When Farrar's distributor caught fire he was able to extinguish it within seconds after pulling off the highway. Damage was limited to the distributor, edge of the air filter, and yellow powder absolutely everywhere.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[toyotafreak88]

Could it be that the lines aren't meant for the e85 blend and you've used that?

I've heard the new mixes of gasoline aren't playing nicely with some fuel systems...but I don't know much about it. Worth looking into though.

Can you dissect that fuel line to maybe read the outside of the inner rubber layer, and maybe post pictures? It could be any number of causes but I think researching more would be more helpful than a general "fuel lines might pop" warning across the board. Have you used fuel system cleaner, octane boosters, or any additives?

I'd use a different line, regardless. Might be wise to go with something "better," if you have any idea what that might be. I have no clue, perhaps a non-braided line though so you can visually inspect for cracks. Never liked the idea of braided lines because it hides issues with the important part of the hose.


On another preventative note, if DeLoreans are having issues going up in flames, I'd strongly suggest you all consider a suppression system that can be activated remotely....providing they are road legal (google didn't help in the time I have)? $500 is cheap insurance, and since you can't actually SEE the fire unless it's killing the engine or showing up in your rear-view mirror, it could save a lot more of your car than if you stop, jump out, and try to squirt powder through TWO engine covers (louvers, engine cover). By then the flames will probably be rather large unless you were lucky to see the smoke first. Kinda sucks not having a grille! (for those that don't know opening the hood can make the fire burn much worse and injure you, like breaking a window in a burning house, it supplies more oxygen).

Like these perhaps:
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/group.asp?GroupID=FIRESYSSFI

[content22207_2]

Kinda sucks not having a grille!

Front engine grill provides no visibility or access into the engine compartment -- there's a radiator and possibly an A/C condensor in the way.

DeLorean engine compartment is totally open to the atmosphere. Opening the engine cover provides no additional air. Opening the decorative louvers has no effect other than access.

Common denominator among DeLoreans that have suffered catastrophic engine fires appears to be lack of a fire extinguisher. Probably just as many stories of DeLoreans catching fire and being extinguished on the spot (to Farrar you can add a story David Teitelbaum tells of a DeLorean catching fire at a parade and being put out with another owner's extinguisher).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Spittybug]

I still have the pieces of hose and will dissect them a bit to see if I can learn any more. I have since Googled the hose brand and am dismayed to find that others have posted leakage issues. I think I'm definitely going to hold off installing these when they arrive.

I have used nothing but 'normal' regular or super unleaded gasoline. No E85, no octane booster or injector cleaner. The hoses were not subject to high heat (well away from exhausts).

Some of the stuff I was reading was talking about them drying out after longer periods of non driving. There certainly are times when I won't drive the car for a month or two, but if this is the cause, it is thoroughly unacceptable. Some talked about only a 4 year life.....

As mentioned, the vendor has been very responsive to the issue and as they aren't the manufacturer I don't wish to cast them in a bad light. For the legal reasons alone that Matt mentioned above I'm sure they haven't had any significant issues with selling the hose or they would have ceased doing so on the order of the their own lawyers. I'm sure that they'd be willing to credit me towards an alternative if I ask. At this point I want to autopsy one or two and I'll post pictures.

I think I may just run hard line from under the car up to the rear firewall where my filter is now located. I will also run hard line from rail to rail since there is no relative movement between the two. Since the engine does move and vibrate though, connecting from the filter to the first rail and from the second rail to the return hard line will need to be flexible. Suggestions for these?

[Bitsyncmaster]

Use the high pressure rubber fuel hose. If my Hervey hoses ever leak, I will look for a crimper and make my own fuel hoses.

[Spittybug]

WOW..wow....I will NOT be replacing these with same.

The hoses are hard and inflexible. I autopsied the one that was leaking and look for yourself. The walls are thin, unreinforced and you can see the cracks in the interior. It actually broke off about a half inch or so INSIDE the braiding as I was debraiding it. Very brittle. Note the gasoline/rubber gunk all over the braids. This has been leaking a while by the looks of things. These hoses are only 6 years old.

In the interest of everyone's safety, I now feel it necessary to divulge the brand. It is Pro-Flo 200. If you have these, STOP AND CHECK THEM. I reiterate that the vendor, Jegs, has been VERY communicative and responsive to the problem, but it may be bigger than they know. I will continue to work with them and report back.

The above posters' comments about fire extinguishers is sound advice. I have carried one since day one. Not doing so is just begging to be sorry. That said, there is no reason that we should ever NEED to have one if we pay attention to our cars. The high pressure of the fuel system increases the risk, but there is no reason for such premature failure of parts like this. Pay attention and be safe.

[Bitsyncmaster]

There was one brand of rubber fuel hose that also was defective. Lots of leaks from that hose were posted on the internet.

[toyotafreak88]

Front engine grill provides no visibility or access into the engine compartment -- there's a radiator and possibly an A/C condensor in the way.

DeLorean engine compartment is totally open to the atmosphere. Opening the engine cover provides no additional air. Opening the decorative louvers has no effect other than access.

Common denominator among DeLoreans that have suffered catastrophic engine fires appears to be lack of a fire extinguisher. Probably just as many stories of DeLoreans catching fire and being extinguished on the spot (to Farrar you can add a story David Teitelbaum tells of a DeLorean catching fire at a parade and being put out with another owner's extinguisher).

Bill Robertson
#5939

Well you can see some engines and get chemicals through the front, some are more difficult. Opening the engine cover would probably stoke the blaze a bit, but I may have been partially wrong about not opening it being a good idea. I suppose the the best way to actually extinguish any engine fire is to get the hood up, IF it's not progressed too far. I think if caught late, opening it after the fire has produced significant flames can be risky. Common sense I guess. Don't stick your face by the chimney.



WOW..wow....I will NOT be replacing these with same.

The hoses are hard and inflexible. I autopsied the one that was leaking and look for yourself. The walls are thin, unreinforced and you can see the cracks in the interior. It actually broke off about a half inch or so INSIDE the braiding as I was debraiding it. Very brittle. Note the gasoline/rubber gunk all over the braids. This has been leaking a while by the looks of things. These hoses are only 6 years old.

In the interest of everyone's safety, I now feel it necessary to divulge the brand. It is Pro-Flo 200. If you have these, STOP AND CHECK THEM. I reiterate that the vendor, Jegs, has been VERY communicative and responsive to the problem, but it may be bigger than they know. I will continue to work with them and report back.

The above posters' comments about fire extinguishers is sound advice. I have carried one since day one. Not doing so is just begging to be sorry. That said, there is no reason that we should ever NEED to have one if we pay attention to our cars. The high pressure of the fuel system increases the risk, but there is no reason for such premature failure of parts like this. Pay attention and be safe.

Freaky, that doesn't look good at all. Plenty of OEM stuff out there that doesn't seem to have issues, perhaps something OEM would be a good replacement.

[Spittybug]

No OEM for an EFI'd Delorean; source where you can.

I've decided not to risk it. I'm going with 3/8" ID, 5/8" OD fuel injection hose (no braiding of any sort). I had a small piece laying around so I tested it with my fittings and it works really nicely.... first you slide the end cap over the hose, then screw in the second part of the fitting through the end cap and it goes down the bore of the hose. In doing so it expands the hose outwards and tightens it against the inside walls of the end cap. Really secure, but that wasn't where the issues were in any case. Now I'll be able to quickly eyeball and occasionally squeeze the hoses to ensure that they are in good shape.

The walls of the new stuff are reinforced with some kind of fiber in the middle of the 1/4" wall thickness. There is a PTFE or similar lining on the interior. Compared to the rubber section of the braided hose, it is much beefier and is rated at 100psi. How the heck could the other one claim > 1000 psi???? I suppose the SS braiding essentially caged the whole thing. Burst pressure is one thing, degradation/cracking is altogether different.

Jegs is being very responsive. Nothing but helpful.

[Ron]

In the interest of everyone's safety, I now feel it necessary to divulge the brand. It is Pro-Flo 200. If you have these, STOP AND CHECK THEM. THANKS for this! (I'll check the fox body car and report back...)

WTH! ...You must be living right, bro.

[Spittybug]

Jegs took care of me and sent 10ft of the 3/8" fuel injector hose as replacement. I bought some new fittings so that I'd have no issues with any galling or scratches from the old ones on the SS braiding (probably overkill by me, but OK, I liked the brushed nickel color too) and put my hoses together. I like the way they went in and how the center tube really tightens up in them.

Installed in car, pressurized system and good to go! Bone dry. Pressure is still holding within a pound or two of when I shut it down over an hour ago.

I needed to straighten out the old hoses to get the right lengths for the new ones. They were as hard and brittle as 50 year old ones. Check yours.

[Ryan King]

I hope John Hervey doesn't use this type of braided line for his fuel lines...

[aotmfilms]

Okay, I did:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbtL7darPV0

I hope they were okay. Talk about being a marshmallow.